Sorry about offending you, but I think we both wanted more from that title, still at least you know what it means to be first party.

AHEM.

BrunoBRS

Shadow of the colossus was a great demo, filled with awesome boss fights, it's like having a steak, one, all day with no other meals, sure it tasted good, but I was hungry for a whole lot more.

seriously, if it had dungeons, towns, NPCS, mobs then it wouldn't feel like such a demo. beat the thing in like 5 hours... having said all that, I really do love the game, but it would of been better to rent it. ICO give me a complete interesting game already, stop with these interesting demos.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]oh and both of you are mistaking first party with exclusives.locopatho

Eh I just sorta lump 1st and 2nd party together...

I wouldn't, if sony wasn't around for the 2nd party, they would be on another platform, and you'd still have that game, can't say the same for the house mario built.

(sigh)

AMD Radeon X1900 (~426 GFLOPs) still has nearly twice the raw FLOPs compared to AMD Xenos (240 GFLOPs).

Secondly, AMD Xenos doesn't have Ultra-Thread tech i.e. large 512 hyper-threading for GPU. AMD Xenos has the smaller 64 hyper-threading over 48 pipelines.

AMD Xenos' stream processors can process both vertex and pixel shaders while Radeon X1900's stream processors are specialised for either pixel shader or vertex shader.

Wikipedia's article did NOT look at the micro-architectural difference between Xenos and Radeon X1900. In another words, they are not related.

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AMD C-50 APU (refer to my ACER Iconia W500 tablet pc/slate as an example) has 80 stream processors, but these are 80 scalar stream processors i.e. 1 instruction = 1 data payload.

AMD Xenos on the otherhand has 1 scalar instruction with 1 data payload and 1 vector instruction with 4 data payload. In terms data processing, Xenos is like 240 stream processors in Radeon HD's terms. AMD Xenos can process 96 instructions with 240 data payloads per cycle.

AMD C-50 APU can process 80 instructions with 80 data payloads per cycle.

My old Sony Vaio VGN-FW45laptop's AMD Radeon HD 4650 can process 320 instructions with 320 data payloads per cycle.

-------------------

With tessellation features...

- Radeon HD DX11 GPUs has domain shaders and hull shader instructions and registers (data storage) i.e. they are used for before and after the tessellation stage. These instructions are 1 pass functions which make them efficient.

- Radeon HD DX10.1 GPUs has stream-in/stream-out cache for before and after the tessellation stage i.e. string together multiple shader instructions to do same functions as DX11 domain shaders and hull shader instructions. Since they don't specfic domain shaders and hull shader registers, you store results in the stream cache. In terms of data storage performance, cache is not fast registers. Radeon HD DX10.1 GPUs doesn't have 1 pass functionbefore and after functions for tessellation stage.

With AMD Xenos, you ping-pong with 10MB eDRAM before and after tessellation stage i.e. slower than on-chip cache.

Wii 2 does not use DirectX and not limited by it. Also, having non-DirectX system doesn't automatically create support for DX11 native texture compression formats e.g. BCH6 and BCH7. Btw, Radeon HD DX10.1 GPUs can emulate BCH6 and BCH7 support with compute shaders, but this uses compute shader resource.

The difference in programming models makes Radeon HD DX10.1 GPUs to fail DX11 model test.

If you notice, Radeon HD DX11 GPUs are just upgraded versions Radeon HD DX10 GPUs e.g. Radeon HD 5770 ~= Radeon HD 4870 in DX10 mode. Both uses 1 instruction = 1 data payload stream processor design.

ronvalencia

All Gflops I get for the X1900 is around 248Gflops, though the x1950xtx is 375 Gflops(die size is 230mm^2 for pro xtx is much larger...), which is quite a bit more powerful, but I don't see 426 Gflops you are listing? Link? also since you seem to know so much about this, why do you think they would use a R700 series? whats the logic there? I don't see a price advantage, I don't really see any advantage. Tech marches forward pretty steadily, N6 laucnhes when 28nm has become the standard, like I've said perviously a 7000 series chip makes the most sense, you can grab a 7600series chip that should be ~roughly the same performance as the 4870/5770/6770.

Radeon HD 5750/5770's die size is 166mm^2 on TSMC 40 nm process. This is without the 3 PPE CPU cores. XBox 360 Slim's fusion chip die size is 169mm^2 which includes CPU+GPU and 45nm process. About half of 169mm^2 die size is consume by PPE X3. It's unlikely Wii 2 would have Radeon HD 5750/5770.

ronvalencia

Yes, logic works well for your argument if you tint the glasses a bit, Fact is, the X800 was about 160mm^2 and the x1900 was nearly twice as large... yet Xenoshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos_(graphics_chip)"is in many ways related to theR500desktop PC graphics card series and therefore very similar to an ATI Radeon X1900 PC graphics card (The Radeon X1950 GT to be exact) as far as features and performance are concerned."

The performance is what we are looking at, and the feature set, it makes no sense for Nintendo to use a R700 to save money, thats like saying you are going to order a Delorian to save on gas money because it's an older car. WTH?

the 5000/6000 series has more features, and more bang for your buck, with less power draw as well, and before you say a 4350 blah blah blah, a e350 Fusion GPU AND CPU costs less then 30 bucks and is being massed produced right now with 80 shader units (still nearly twice the shader count than the 360 mind you) with DX11. Some moron saw a dev kit with an R700 and that has become fact, got to love the internet and it's FACTZ.

Wii2 can't be the R700 series, because R700 series can only use 2 displays per GPU, Nintendo would have to use something called Eye infinity, which is AMD's 5000/6000 series, they willoutput 5/6 displays at once, this is something R700 can not do, you would have to custom modify it beyond what an R700 series chip is, which would drive the price of the gpu WAY up.

GPU performance will likely be 5750 ~ 5830 or 6750 ~ 6790 40nm or hopefully the 7000 series at the same power (all cards mentioned are right at or below/above a 4870 to match rumors of dev kit power)

CPU will probably be an IBM Quad core with a current PowerPC architech 32nm

RAM 1GB GDDR 5 unified with atleast 88MB T1 SRAM, likely to be 256MB T1 SRAM for quad playback among the controllers.

HDD Either 16GB internal flash or 250GB+ HDD with 2/4GB Internal Flash for BC with WiiWare titles.

WiFi Wireless N in box, with possiblity for Bluetooth 2 or it's own wireless tech for streaming video to each controllers.

Controller 6in screen with detachable wiimote2/nunchuk2, a 3 piece hardware solution connects the controllers wirelessly to each other, and snap together around the center piece which is the screen, this answers the custon of the THQ PAD as that controller as a wiimote insert. Screen resolution will stick to 16x9 to match onscreen display, expect a simple solution IE 800x480 (allowing 20 extra pixels for home button ala 3DS) or the much more lucrative HDq resolution of 960x540.

Remember that rumors of specs are coming of dev kit boxes, these specs are not outside the power of a 4870GPU, this would make for a fairly mid powered PC, but should handle BF3 at max with aa in a closed enviroment afforded to consoles, another beauty to these numbers is that you could fit these specs into about 250/300 dollars worth of hardware, leaving the system to sell between 300-400.

[QUOTE="syferz"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

If it isn't emulation, and they stick the Wii CPU in there, could they use it as processing power? Like maybe as a PPU?

osan0

The Wii GPU and CPU if in the Wii, could be used for PPU and AI dedicated system.

It would defineantly be cool to see, but I doubt they will bundle the hardware inside, though a PS3 engineer is working with them, and thats exactly what he decided to do for the ps3, so we might see it, especially since wii's GPU/CPU could be shrank and cost them under 15 dollars to throw inside. Still I want something around xbox 360's slim size, I doubt they would put a huge block in your living room.

If it isn't emulation, and they stick the Wii CPU in there, could they use it as processing power? Like maybe as a PPU?

magnax1

The Wii GPU and CPU if in the Wii, could be used for PPU and AI dedicated system.

i think PPUs are dead.....nvidia saw to that. they just do that kind of work now on GPUs. so if they were thinking along those lines then they would probably be looking at adding a second low end GPU to compliment whatever GPU is inside the wii2. hardware accelerated physics is more in the area of GPGPU now. or if theres enough capacity in the GPU then devs may use it for physics also. after porting a 360 game for example they may find that theres still juice left in the GPU and use it for extra physics effects and other stuff. i agree though..as you say ninty probably are not even looking at it. but assuming ninty dont cripple it the GPU should be fully GPGPU capable..so ninty themselves may be thinking of other interesting things to do with games in that area. graphically compromise a game to come up with some really kewl physics based gameplay for example...or perhaps invest in some really sophisticated AI that usues a combination of the GPU and CPU (GPUs are not great for ai themselves but they can help speed some parts of it up). AMD are very intersted in that area and have SDKs for people to use for GPGPU using openCL. so if the wii2 is an all AMD job then setting GPGPU up in terms of software shouldnt be too hard for ninty to arrange. i also think as far as BC is concerned itll be all emulation. there will be no wii hardware in the wii2. hopefully itll also upscale the games on older platforms and maybe add some AA where possible.osan0

I think you are right about wii being Emulated only, I don't see a need for hardware when dolphin already emulates many GCN and Wii games perfectly, Nintendo should be able to 1up them, but if the Wii hardware is inside (though I don't believe it is) I hope unlike the PS3's launch console, it will be fully intergrated into the system and allow for some extra power for physics,AIand what not.

And I like how IGN is backingtherumorof an all AMD system, would be pretty nice to have a HD7000 with dx11 and GPGPU abilities, especially when the reality is that it would only cost Nintendo a little more then it cost them to make the Wii, and we all know they are rasing the price to atleast 299.