Please. Someone. For the love of God and all that is holy, give me a synopsis!mrmusicman247

Wii U has an IBM Quad Core Power7 Processor according to Engadget's source (IBM itself)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/ibm-puts-watsons-brains-in-nintendo-wii-u/

Dice Developer said that Wii U will be FAR MORE powerful then current gen when it releases (his capitals, but for some odd reason thought Nintendo pre rendered the Zelda Demo - they didn't)

http://www.gustavhalling.com/2011/06/08/wiiu-thoughts-nintendos-new-console/

It has more ram, but less then dice expects will be in the ps4/x720 (my guess would be 1.5gb ram as early estimates were)

This system will be 4 to 6 times more powerful then the current gen considering they have no advanced tools for the system yet, and are porting over 360 games in weeks (Dark Siders 2 was ported over in 5 weeks, and GRO was ported over from the pc in 4 Weeks)

It's pretty obvious that the april leak about the controller forced Nintendo's hand... They set up a Nintendo event in october and already rented out the room, which is likely the original reveal (when they would have something to show) and yet we got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo(which looks better than anything 360/ps3 has shown) AND this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arHNcSMXaBk(which has the best lighting I've ever seen on a console game)

These were both made in little time, if you want proof, look at the short video for the garden demo, and you'll see that when the small bird lands on the tree, it's missing shadows shown in the video I posted. To top this off, both of these in game graphics were also displayed on the tablet at the same time, and were produced on early dev kits that only had 1GB of memory if developers are to be believed, and Nintendo is saying to them that it will end up at 1.5GB, which would clearly put the console below ps4/x720, but only by half at most.

The PS2 (300mhz, 32MB ram, emotion engine) vs xbox (733mhz, 64MB ram, custom geforce 3 chip) roughly less then half the power, and thanks to diminishing returns, there is no way Wii U will end up like Wii, it will most likely just mean 720P resolution vs 1080P for the later consoles.

Wii U vs PS4 vs Xbox Next

Skip to the"VS"section below if you just want the educated guess of the next gen comparison.

Nintendo last week gave us a look at the new console that will be released next year around summer of 2012. Here is some important facts about the new system and some educated guesses that we can make and give us a pretty good idea about what the next generation will look like between all 3 systems.

First before I get into listing what we know and what we can guess at, I want to give everyone some background to this speculation:http://www.gustavhalling.com/2011/06/08/wiiu-thoughts-nintendos-new-console/This is a designer for dice, he knowsthe specs inside Wii U, and while he does get some things wrong (Zelda was rendered in REAL TIME, meaning you can take that as in-game footage of what a zelda game would look like on Wii U, he does say that Wii U will be the strongest console"BY FAR"when released. his words, and capitalization was his as well, it's in the comments below.)

The longer garden demo:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo

The Zelda Demo:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arHNcSMXaBk

1. Foxxcon to start production of console in October of this year.A million units created a month, about 8million needed for a world wide launch, giving it a may/june release for those counting

2. Power7 CPU, same architecture used in watson.This is a 4 core CPU running at at least 3.0ghz, with 4 threads per core and at least 16mb embedded ram. giving it a realleap over current gen consoles inCPU. This will alsobe the same cpu you will find in the Xbox next, though they might go with more cores, but is likely that they will stick with 4 cores, as heat rises with more cores, and it's likely not going to give them too much of a difference in head room. Basically Microsoft knows this next gen will be a 3 horse race, and won't see much of a reason to spend too much money on making the box more expensive, they will definitely over power Wii U, but it will likely be xbox vs ps2 in power, rather then ps360 vs wii.

3. Wii U's likely using a R700 GPU.The original leak of Wii U back in April nailed the details of the controller, what type of CPU it was using and had an educated guess as to R700 from AMD/ATI this would fit in a closed box system with the Power7 CPU well, Nintendo doesn't use APIs like DX11, so using a DX11 card means nothing to them, also what a lot of people don't realize is Nintendo has a chip developer inside their company, that helped make the original Gamecube's GPU thanks to ArtX doing all the heavy lifting, AMD owns the original ArtX team and they work with Nintendo's development team on custom chips for their GPU, meaning the R700 chip, likely a reworked R770 (4850/4870 @ 32nm/28nm process) would be highly customized, but sit right around the same performance as the HD4870 and sit under 100watts. The real importance to all this speculation about the GPU though is that Nintendo will have to use something this powerful to keep the CPU fed and to have the multiple display, thanks to the controller.

4. RAM.This next part is speculation, it has more ram then ps360, Dice confirmed that in the link above, how much ram is a good question, developers are whispering 1gb in the dev kits with Nintendo telling them 1.5GB in finalized hardware, which makes a lot of sense for what they are trying to do, but will likely be AT LEAST 512MB less than PS4/xbox3. This will allow them to have HD graphics even if it means 720P @ 60fps vs PS4's 3D @ 720p (impossible currently for HDMI to produce 1080p 3D above24fps)/ xbox3's 1080P @ 60fps.

VS

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, butPS4/Xbox Next cannot put Wii U behind far enough to turn it into Dreamcast/Wii, from a technical stand point, it is simply impossible working inside TDP's and Technology slated for 2013. Here is why at best they can make it the PS2 of next gen, and at worst, put the comparison to gamecube vs xbox.

1. IBM will not have a Power8 architecture out by 2013.All next generation consoles will likely use Power7 cores, which are based on IBM's work on the Cell Processor, but highly advanced and much more efficient.

2. R770 vs R870 is in the same ballpark graphics wise.and getting the TDP's down far enough to use something from the HD7000 series, will be possible, but will keep a performance simular to a 6870/5870 if they go with a big enough console a 6950's performance will be possible at a 20nm process, but it will still be comparable and arguably fit right inside the ps2 vs xbox comparison.

3. RAM going beyond 3GB next generation is simply useless for a closed console with a ~HD6950/Power7 core @ 1080P.Developers will always want more of course, but that's to make development easier,Microsoft and Sony would be much smarter to use 2GB ram inside their next boxes, as the power of these consoles will not match up well with the extra ram and will seem like a waste.

4. Developers will not want to throw away their engines,but will want to evolve what they have, UE4 can likely be optimized to sit into a 6950/Power7 system at nearly no loss of detail (minus going to 1080P) leaving Wii U to get a 720P version of the same engine with a ~HD4800 series chip. To further drive this point home, Darksiders 2 was ported to Wii U in 5 weeks, GRO in 4 weeks. Developers will like to keep their cost and development times down.

5. Deminitioning returns are here to stay.Here is a question for you;

Does Gears of War 3:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFmYbaAjrfovs

Project Samaritan:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijMxWftXvPgvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GxgdiUJdI?

Conclusion:

If the Wii U is 4 to 5 times more powerful than PS360, then PS4/Xbox Next could be 10 times more powerful and end up only 2 times the power of Wii U, leaving the comparison of PS2 vs Xbox (300mhz cpu, 32mb ram vs 733mhz cpu, 64mb ram) to be anear identical comparison but with it meaning even less then it did in that generation and this is the worst case scenario with Microsoft and Sony pushing the limits of 250Watt/TDP in 2013)

This is an educated guess, but the limits of what you can put into a box the size of PS3 in 2013 is very real, there is also the very real danger of another PS3, which Sony could not afford, and I doubt Microsoft wants to take on another RROD situation. Any questions about my estimations or if more links are needed to my facts, please let me know, the only one that is currently heavily rumored in facts was Wii U's Ram, the GPU is pretty much an estimation based on prior reports (IGN, net 01) matching up the CPU and stuff like running the garden demo on both the tv and tablet at the same time.

Wii U has an IBM Quad Core Power7 Processor according to Engadget's source (IBM itself)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/ibm-puts-watsons-brains-in-nintendo-wii-u/

Dice Developer said that Wii U will be FAR MORE powerful then current gen when it releases (his capitals, but for some odd reason thought Nintendo pre rendered the Zelda Demo - they didn't)

http://www.gustavhalling.com/2011/06/08/wiiu-thoughts-nintendos-new-console/

It has more ram, but less then dice expects will be in the ps4/x720 (my guess would be 1.5gb ram as early estimates were)

This system will be 4 to 6 times more powerful then the current gen considering they have no advanced tools for the system yet, and are porting over 360 games in weeks (Dark Siders 2 was ported over in 5 weeks, and GRO was ported over from the pc in 4 Weeks)

It's pretty obvious that the april leak about the controller forced Nintendo's hand... They set up a Nintendo event in october and already rented out the room, which is likely the original reveal (when they would have something to show) and yet we got this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo(which looks better than anything 360/ps3 has shown) AND this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arHNcSMXaBk(which has the best lighting I've ever seen on a console game)

These were both made in little time, if you want proof, look at the short video for the garden demo, and you'll see that when the small bird lands on the tree, it's missing shadows shown in the video I posted. To top this off, both of these in game graphics were also displayed on the tablet at the same time, and were produced on early dev kits that only had 1GB of memory if developers are to be believed, and Nintendo is saying to them that it will end up at 1.5GB, which would clearly put the console below ps4/x720, but only by half at most.

The PS2 (300mhz, 32MB ram, emotion engine) vs xbox (733mhz, 64MB ram, custom geforce 3 chip) roughly less then half the power, and thanks to diminishing returns, there is no way Wii U will end up like Wii, it will most likely just mean 720P resolution vs 1080P for the later consoles.

Hey, if nintendo gets 3rd party titles that they dont get now...and i can still play nintendo games...i wont need another console. i only have a ps3 because i cant get something like Dragon age on my Wii. But if Wii is going to have something like Batman AC, assasins creed etc..., as well as mario, zelda, metroid, then there is no point to having more then one console. esp when Wii U has such an awesome controller. and since micro and sony only know how to copy what nintendo does, i bet they are rushing to figure out what they going to do about nintendo having a controler that basicially doubles as a portable gaming system. i was sold on the system the second i heard you dont need a tv to play it.da_chub

Well, many people are worried, Wii U will just end up like Wii. That is why I created this thread, to show exactly how impossible that is from a technology perspective, even if sony and microsoft's next consoles are twice as powerful, you won't be able to see that power difference... Wii U will continue to get multiplatform games from all developers thanks to having comparable hardware to the other next gen consoles.

Also the controller's portability is linked to the system, you won't be able to go outside of a certain range, probably something similar to the Wiimote's range.

Uh... I dont really care nor do I really understand some of that stuff.

Me, I dont really care if Microsoft's 720 (it wont be called that, lol) and Sony's PS4 (I hope they give it a name rather than a number) is/ could be more powerful than the Wii U. As long as I get to play my Nintendo games.

Gamingclone

Yes, my entire thread basically points to a generation much like PS2 (Wii U) vs Gamecube (PS4) vs Xbox (Xbox Next). That is to say that your Wii U investment will be a good one even 2 and a half years from now, when PS4 and XboxN are released.

So The Wii U will be less powerful then the other Next Gen consoles, but there won't be a huge difference between them, making Wii U a Next Gen console and not simply a catch up system.

I'm believe Wii U will be November 2012. However, SEGA seems to know something we don't [or maybe they're lying lol]:

GS:Will Sonic Generations be released for the Wii U?
AP: The timing just doesn't work. Generations releases this November, and the Wii U is coming out next spring/summer.

This is from an interview with GameSpot. Either SEGA is lying/guessing or they know something, lol.

Haziqonfire

We actually know where they might of gotten that number other than directly from Nintendo, Wii U starts production this October @ Foxxcon, they will make about 1Million units per month, a world wide release takes about 8Million consoles, so May/June makes the most sense, as storing10-12Million units just to release in fall, would cost a fortune)

To speculate just a bit, Apple likes to release things in this window, so Nintendo might mean to go directly against Apple with a new Wii, if it hits like the original, it could really hurt Apple's iPad 3 sales. as the Tablet will do a lot of what people use iPad's for, but with better graphics and more power, thanks to be tethered to the box. If you are someone who carries you Ipad out in public with you, then it's likely that it won't affect you much, or it might mean that you keep your iPad(2), which would further hurt Apple, basically Nintendo doesn't have to worry about Apple's competition, because they are releasing a home console that a new iPad would poorly match up against, while the Wii U would match and exceed most uses for an iPad.

Also the only confirmed Wii U launch game (Dark Siders 2) comes out in Spring 2012, and launching alongside the 360/PS3 version would help sales for their Wii U version.

Skip to the "VS" section below if you just want the educated guess of the next gen comparison.

Nintendo last week gave us a look at the new console that will be released next year around summer of 2012. Here is some important facts about the new system and some educated guesses that we can make and give us a pretty good idea about what the next generation will look like between all 3 systems.

First before I get into listing what we know and what we can guess at, I want to give everyone some background to this speculation: http://www.gustavhalling.com/2011/06/08/wiiu-thoughts-nintendos-new-console/This is a designer for dice, he knowsthe specs inside Wii U, and while he does get some things wrong (Zelda was rendered in REAL TIME, meaning you can take that as in-game footage of what a zelda game would look like on Wii U, he does say that Wii U will be the strongest console"BY FAR"when released. his words, and capitalization was his as well, it's in the comments below.)

The longer garden demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Nsa06KRLo

The Zelda Demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arHNcSMXaBk

1. Foxxcon to start production of console in October of this year.A million units created a month, about 8million needed for a world wide launch, giving it a may/june release for those counting

2. Power7 CPU, same architecture used in watson.This is a 4 core CPU running at at least 3.0ghz, with 4 threads per core and at least 16mb embedded ram. giving it a realleap over current gen consoles inCPU. This will alsobe the same cpu you will find in the Xbox next, though they might go with more cores, but is likely that they will stick with 4 cores, as heat rises with more cores, and it's likely not going to give them too much of a difference in head room. Basically Microsoft knows this next gen will be a 3 horse race, and won't see much of a reason to spend too much money on making the box more expensive, they will definitely over power Wii U, but it will likely be xbox vs ps2 in power, rather then ps360 vs wii.

3. Wii U's likely using a R700 GPU. The original leak of Wii U back in April nailed the details of the controller, what type of CPU it was using and had an educated guess as to R700 from AMD/ATI this would fit in a closed box system with the Power7 CPU well, Nintendo doesn't use APIs like DX11, so using a DX11 card means nothing to them, also what a lot of people don't realize is Nintendo has a chip developer inside their company, that helped make the original Gamecube's GPU thanks to ArtX doing all the heavy lifting, AMD owns the original ArtX team and they work with Nintendo's development team on custom chips for their GPU, meaning the R700 chip, likely a reworked R770 (4850/4870 @ 32nm/28nm process) would be highly customized, but sit right around the same performance as the HD4870 and sit under 100watts. The real importance to all this speculation about the GPU though is that Nintendo will have to use something this powerful to keep the CPU fed and to have the multiple display, thanks to the controller.

4. RAM. This next part is speculation, it has more ram then ps360, Dice confirmed that in the link above, how much ram is a good question, developers are whispering 1gb in the dev kits with Nintendo telling them 1.5GB in finalized hardware, which makes a lot of sense for what they are trying to do, but will likely be AT LEAST 512MB less than PS4/xbox3. This will allow them to have HD graphics even if it means 720P @ 60fps vs PS4's 3D @ 720p (impossible currently for HDMI to produce 1080p 3D above24fps)/ xbox3's 1080P @ 60fps.

VS

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but PS4/Xbox Next cannot put Wii U behind far enough to turn it into Dreamcast/Wii, from a technical stand point, it is simply impossible working inside TDP's and Technology slated for 2013. Here is why at best they can make it the PS2 of next gen, and at worst, put the comparison to gamecube vs xbox.

1. IBM will not have a Power8 architecture out by 2013. All next generation consoles will likely use Power7 cores, which are based on IBM's work on the Cell Processor, but highly advanced and much more efficient.

2. R770 vs R870 is in the same ballpark graphics wise.and getting the TDP's down far enough to use something from the HD7000 series, will be possible, but will keep a performance simular to a 6870/5870 if they go with a big enough console a 6950's performance will be possible at a 20nm process, but it will still be comparable and arguably fit right inside the ps2 vs xbox comparison.

3. RAM going beyond 3GB next generation is simply useless for a closed console with a ~HD6950/Power7 core @ 1080P. Developers will always want more of course, but that's to make development easier, Microsoft and Sony would be much smarter to use 2GB ram inside their next boxes, as the power of these consoles will not match up well with the extra ram and will seem like a waste.

4. Developers will not want to throw away their engines,but will want to evolve what they have, UE4 can likely be optimized to sit into a 6950/Power7 system at nearly no loss of detail (minus going to 1080P) leaving Wii U to get a 720P version of the same engine with a ~HD4800 series chip. To further drive this point home, Darksiders 2 was ported to Wii U in 5 weeks, GRO in 4 weeks. Developers will like to keep their cost and development times down.

5. Deminitioning returns are here to stay. Here is a question for you;

Does Gears of War 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFmYbaAjrfovs

Project Samaritan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijMxWftXvPgvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GxgdiUJdI?

Conclusion:

If the Wii U is 4 to 5 times more powerful than PS360, then PS4/Xbox Next could be 10 times more powerful and end up only 2 times the power of Wii U, leaving the comparison of PS2 vs Xbox (300mhz cpu, 32mb ram vs 733mhz cpu, 64mb ram) to be anear identical comparison but with it meaning even less then it did in that generation and this is the worst case scenario with Microsoft and Sony pushing the limits of 250Watt/TDP in 2013)

This is an educated guess, but the limits of what you can put into a box the size of PS3 in 2013 is very real, there is also the very real danger of another PS3, which Sony could not afford, and I doubt Microsoft wants to take on another RROD situation. Any questions about my estimations or if more links are needed to my facts, please let me know, the only one that is currently heavily rumored in facts was Wii U's Ram, the GPU is pretty much an estimation based on prior reports (IGN, net 01) matching up the CPU and stuff like running the garden demo on both the tv and tablet at the same time.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]

[QUOTE="syferz"]

The great thing about gaming is that both games exist, and both can be called art at least my definition of it fits both, and that is an experience made to give emotions to the viewer/user, something that will not soon be forgotten is good art, and I would call both games that. SotC is a good game, but I feel it could have been much better while keeping it's heart, had it only given the user more of an experience. (more of a game, more content)

BrunoBRS

Thread is a joke thread, the wii successor has to be much more powerful than the PS3/360 if it's going to display a game even a notch above 360/PS3 among 5 screens, even if it was a 4770http://www.geek.com/articles/games/amd-releases-40nm-radeon-hd-4770-bringing-960-gflops-and-full-directx-101-for-109-20090428/is pretty darn powerful in an open enviroment of a windows PC, 960Gflops is over 3.5x the 360 in GPU performance, the CPU is obviously more powerful as well. It won't be a full generation above 360/PS3, but it will be a step above them in terms of what it can do, which should translate really well, to be honest a R700 card can't even output to 5 displays so I'm fairly certain that is just the dev kits, and we will see something in the 5000/6000 series that is highly customized along the 4770/4870's performance. which is to say 950 Gflops ~ 1300 Gflops.

And I fully enjoyed SotC, but I still think it could have been better, yes it was great for what it was, and even a bit revolutionary, but it still could have been more without losing what it was, I just am not blind to that.

^ i think you just didn't quite get SotC. i think you were hoping for a morrowind/god of war hybrid, as in huge RPG but with gigantic, action packed bosses. there would be nothing wrong with a game like that (hell, sounds like a lot of fun), but that just wouldn't be SotC. the game is much more than being just about beating the crap out of bosses until you get to the end. it's much simpler, yet much more complex. look at me, almost started another giant post on the game that would spoil my future editorial for when the HD version is out. suffice to say that you played through SotC the same way someone who desperately wants an FPS plays mario galaxy.BrunoBRS

I agree that it is a great game, but I look at it as uncompleted, you remember how some lairs were designed like tiny dungeons, what it basically is, is a game in the same style as zelda but without all those things I mentioned, and instead focused on a concept of gaint bosses, if the game had dungeons with some puzzles and maybe some natural traps (sink pits, crumbling ground, wild animals) sort of like the original tomb raider concept for a dungeon, and then these big boss battles, and maybe if the story wasn't transparent from the very beginning (it's a really old story) and instead had a small town where the girl is being cared for by a priest or something that is using you instead, and the town gives you hints where the bosses were.

Oh it would be nice if the game's world wasn't so barien to, for a PS2 title, it's a marvel, but that doesn't excuse it's complete lack of content... It looks like a indie movie, or indie game, but it's budget was big, backed by sony... Was it art? I'd say it's about as close as that generation got to art, but it felt like a movie, and just like a movie, it's replay value is completely set in how well you liked the scenes, IE boss fights. The game would have been better to include a small unique town and dungeon set up, with some npcs (not a large amount, just a cast that made you feel like you were in a real living world, and not a figment of imagination that lacked real content in the trade off of having more interesting bosses, I think it could have, and should have had both.

Maybe what I expected was a combination of ICO and SotC, but I think that would have been a better game, btw my favorite game of all time is Majora's Mask, simply because it was the first time in a game that I felt drew out a real imaginative world with a horrifying setting about a world ending and these people you get to learn about and experience their lives while you try to save them, even if they aren't simply good people, the game is so full of content that I think it comes as a complete contrast to SotC.

The great thing about gaming is that both games exist, and both can be called art at least my definition of it fits both, and that is an experience made to give emotions to the viewer/user, something that will not soon be forgotten is good art, and I would call both games that. SotC is a good game, but I feel it could have been much better while keeping it's heart, had it only given the user more of an experience. (more of a game, more content)

[QUOTE="syferz"]

Sorry about offending you, but I think we both wanted more from that title, still at least you know what it means to be first party.

BrunoBRS

It had nothing but gaint monsters roaming endless uninteresting plains. It was a concept for boss fights, and while it has some of the best boss fights around, that is all the entire game is. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but mine completely clashes with yours if you think it's one of the best 2 games of all time, especially when you tie it with Super Mario World that had more levels of gameplay then any other 2D Mario game ever.

Seriously thought I could trust your opinion since you dawn a Golden sun character as an avatar, but SotC is a very bare game, that literally has nothing but boss fights, no matter how amazing they were, it was also not completely original "you attackits weak point for massive damage" Climbing on the thing was the only real unique part, and that literally is what the entire game was about.