ok, my concern is how the proposed backwards compatiblilty will be achieved. perhaps we will see a tiny IBM PPC in there, otherwise wont we be looking at software emulation? the wii achieves backwards compatibility because its a CPU with similar architechure (spelling..), but if we switch to an AMD system, wont this be X64 based instead of PPC a la PPC iMacs vs Intel iMacs. if we get lumped with software, hopefully they learn from Msofts xbox 360 issues. BUT lets hope we get a Sony solution whereby the old system is shrunk inside the new system (Just like launch PS3's)

kungfool69

It's possible to almost completely emulate the Wii and Gamecube, Nintendo knowing the actual coded hardware could make an emulator that would do it almost perfectly, and a 4 core Bulldozer would be powerful enough to nearly emulate wii perfectly, which funny enough actually is a benifit of the Wii being so under powered. Nintendo has gone this route before with the N64 emulation on the Gamecube with the Zelda disc featuring OOT's master quest and Majora's Mask, there were a couple glitches, but I think a new emulator built on a Trinity platform could handle it a lot better.

Having said all that, it would be interesting for Nintendo to have a 3rd processor in their system, I've really always wanted a PPU in consoles, it will happen eventually, but for anyone wondering what it is, it's a physics processor unit, that basically makes clothes fluent and flowing, hair as well, objects can break into unique pieces, gravity is better defined, and a slew of other special effects. ATI has been working on openCL for a while, if they could slip a small chip, they are super low powered graphics cards, and could actually be done on a redesign of Boardway. (or was it hollywood?)

So long story short, they could do it either way, they could put the wii's GPU/CPU inside a tiny 28nm/40nm chip for BWC for under 20 dollars (launch was 43 for these chips), and hopefully they could utilize it for a PPU, or they could simply emulate Wii for backwards compatiblity as they have in the past with N64. (I don't like to make longwish lists though, so a PPU is probably not something nintendo is even thinking about, but I hope they are atleast looking into it,it would be quite a stunning way to look next gen compared to 360/PS3 and a lot of PC games would start to incorperate more physX type effects in their games, which I would also benifit from.)

[QUOTE="syferz"]

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]

Oh wow I'm off by $10. Also, you forgot it could be a Blu Ray drive, SD card slot, Ports for Cube Controllers and Memory Cards, USB ports, Wireless Card

And you're still not including licensing or a cut for retailers. Like I keep saying, retailers are charging around $50 more in Europe for a 3DS then what Nintendo sells it to them, so likely they want a good chunk even when Nintendo sets the retail price firmly.

I'm not saying anything against what you are saying, but I think we should not expect this.

Afterall, multiple sources said Tegra 2 was going to power the DS2, and even Nvidia was acting like it would. Look what happened.

darth-pyschosis

Tegra 2 was the original spec, but the battery life couldn't come down far enough, we'd have 2 to 3 hour battery if it was a tegra 2.

You were off by quite a bit more, since I had already given the 50 dollars it would need to cover those other things, the entire Trinity Wii2 would cost around 250 to make, if they are selling it at 299/349, it fits inside their goal, you think Nintendo won't use bleeding edge technology, and you are right they most likely won't, but they will use mainstream tech, especially if they are trying to get 3rd parties, the price is only 40 more dollars than the wii's gpu/cpu combo so I have no idea why you think they wouldn't use this? just because it's cheap and happens to be powerful as well? and even then thats only relative to LAPTOPS, a 6650/6750 desk top card, is middle of the road hardware...

I still am at a loss as to why you think this tech is off the mark? 80 dollars for both CPU and GPU it very cheap.

I'm not saying it can't or it won't, or whether I want it or not, I'm saying you aren't adding WiFi, BluRay, and $50 for parts is low, parts may be closer to $100, but even then Nintendo needs to include a $20-$50 cut for retailers.

If you're thinking $250 for all that, but you aren't adding WiFi, BluRay drive (whatever difference it is over a DVD drive) or the cut for retailers. I'm thinking $350 is much more likely, because all Nintendo consoles have launched for $100 for their new recently released handheld

Actually, it looks like we are both agreeing on this now, that the tech is resonable, since Wii had wifi, it was included in the original price, it also had a 31 dollar DVD rom, which might go up to 50 for a blu-ray, but I would imagine that would be the limit, what does the ps3's drive cost? I believe currently it's under 50 for them as well. As for cables... an HDMI cord can be bought online OEM for under 10 bucks... www.NEWEGG.com I bought one for 7 I think, so bulk it shouldn't be too pricey, the power adapter might cost 15 bucks to manufacture, but I doubt it's even that much, as it would only need to supply the console with a maximum of 80Watts with that set up.

So yes, I think N6 will definently sell for 299/349 with the tech I've listed and have a higher profit margin for Nintendo and retailers than the Wii had(~40USD a console) and yes I've added 30 to 50 dollars for a weird controller as well.

[QUOTE="superbuuman"]

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

I don't care about graphics. Gameplay matters. Graphics... not as important.

kayoticdreamz

Unfortunately alot of devs don't think this way...why do you think there was a big lack of 3rd party titles for Wii?

If Nintendo wants to get more 3rd party onboard then sure as hell it won't be underpowered, cause that would be stupid.

Thats why they will pick a mainstream GPU, Trinity offers the best bang for the buck, a 6600 series or 6700 series GPU will run anything in a closed system that the ps720 platforms could possibly run, even if it had to run it at 720p, and developers would love the Direct computer hardware, so they could port anything from the PC over with ease.

Nintendo is highly likely to go for the cheap, efficent, but highly effective option, and as a bonus, a 6700 series matches performance of the rumored R700 (4800 series GPU)

I HIGHLY doubt this system will be more then $300. Nintendo's not going to UNLEARN how to make the most attractive price for their system as possible.

ii20JcM05ii

@ 299, they will be able to get the same 40 dollars they were getting with the wii with my specs, so it's possible, it's all based on a rumor of an AMD engineer saying they were producing a CPU for a fall 2012 game console, since the rumor was last year and came out of no where but was verified by other sources, it makes it highly likely that the specs fit a console releasing next year, and nintendo is the only game in town for that time window.

AMD is creating a CPU for a fall 2012 console release.

The only console being released during this time is project cafe, we all assume AMD is making the graphics in the next Nintendo system as well, since part of that company has handled the last 2 console generations for nintendo's GPU, they created the Flipper in the Gamecube and released a second generation of it for the Wii.

AMD specializes in APUs, these are GPUs and CPUs on the same chip, which makes them: Cheaper, less power hungry, and less expensive.

AMD is releasing 3 APU's next fall, a low end NETBOOK APU, a Mainstream APU and a high end APU.

The netbook APU will not be powerful enough to keep up with the current gen, it will only cost 25-40 dollars for bulk orders as well, which means cheaper than Wii's CPU/GPU chips which were ~45 dollars at launch.

The Mainstream APU will cost between 60 and 90 dollars for bulk orders, 80 for the top end ~50Watt APU from this series. This chip is called Trinity.

The High end APU is POSSIBLE but highly unlikely, while it will boast graphics comparable to high end 6000 series cards, it's Wattage draw and cost would bring Nintendo to a 400+ dollar console which they would not release.

Trinity is of course a name Zelda fans might get excited about, since TriForce is based on a simular idea. Expect Nintendo to use a custom Trinity chip, costing them anywhere between 25% more to 100% more than the Wii's GPU/CPU combo(though they are raising the console by over this ammount to cover the costs), this APU could even use an IBM CPU and ATI GPU like 360's slim chip.

Nintendo is raising the price of their console, expect 299/349 depending on the controller more than the specs. Trinity is average gaming hardware for a current pc today, and mimics theguessed R700's specs that started all the rumors, Trinity will have a GPU comparable tothe 6650 but Nintendo's custom APU might push itto the 6700 series, which wouldfit exactly with rumors we are getting exceptfor one smallbutimportant difference: DX11 with tessilazation.Nintendo would have to go out of their way to not pick up a GPU capable of this in 2012.

In the end, Nintendo will be able to say Project Cafe is powered by the Triforce APU, though this is my codename, nintendo could very seriously adopt it.

[QUOTE="syferz"]

Since you think your 100 dollar estimate is accurate, I looked up the breakdown of hardware for the wii launch, here is the actual break down:

Graphics chip: $29.60
CPU: $13.00
DRAM: $7.80
Optical disk drive: $31.00
Power supply: $11.30
Manufacturing cost: $19.50
Cost total: $158.30

Wholesale price: $195.95

The 158 does not include Wii mote, nunchuk, cords and cables, Wii Sports, packaging and shipping.darth-pyschosis

Oh wow I'm off by $10. Also, you forgot it could be a Blu Ray drive, SD card slot, Ports for Cube Controllers and Memory Cards, USB ports, Wireless Card

And you're still not including licensing or a cut for retailers. Like I keep saying, retailers are charging around $50 more in Europe for a 3DS then what Nintendo sells it to them, so likely they want a good chunk even when Nintendo sets the retail price firmly.

I'm not saying anything against what you are saying, but I think we should not expect this.

Afterall, multiple sources said Tegra 2 was going to power the DS2, and even Nvidia was acting like it would. Look what happened.

Tegra 2 was the original spec, but the battery life couldn't come down far enough, we'd have 2 to 3 hour battery if it was a tegra 2.

You were off by quite a bit more, since I had already given the 50 dollars it would need to cover those other things, the entire Trinity Wii2 would cost around 250 to make, if they are selling it at 299/349, it fits inside their goal, you think Nintendo won't use bleeding edge technology, and you are right they most likely won't, but they will use mainstream tech, especially if they are trying to get 3rd parties, the price is only 40 more dollars than the wii's gpu/cpu combo so I have no idea why you think they wouldn't use this? just because it's cheap and happens to be powerful as well? and even then thats only relative to LAPTOPS, a 6650/6750 desk top card, is middle of the road hardware...

I still am at a loss as to why you think this tech is off the mark? 80 dollars for both CPU and GPU it very cheap.

I looked up the breakdown of hardware for the wii launch, here is the actual break down:

Graphics chip: $29.60
CPU: $13.00
DRAM: $7.80
Optical disk drive: $31.00
Power supply: $11.30
Manufacturing cost: $19.50
Cost total: $158.30

Wholesale price: $195.95

The 158 does not include Wii mote, nunchuk, cords and cables, Wii Sports, packaging and shipping.

They made 40 dollars on every sale, those things bring the price up to about 200 dollars, so your 100 estimate for all that extra that I am forgetting is actually off by a factor of 10!

I do not know that Nintendo is using an APU from AMD, but they are using a GPU from them, I am certain of that, considering that, I am certain they would use an APU design, even if they went with an IBM CPU, though I believe the AMD engineer who leaked that they were working on a CPU for a home console for release fall 2012.

Trinity is a main stream chip that will cost OEM's 110 dollars, in bulk they should be able to get them for around $80 dollars, the CPU and GPU in the wii ran them 43 dollars, I think nintendo would release the console at 299/349 and pick up this DX11 APU with a minimum of HD6650 inside of it.

I don't know why Nintendo would talk about a new system at E3. Why would Nintendo announce a new IP, a new Kirby game, a new Pokemon game, and Zelda for 2011 when the company is preparing its next system? Xenoblade and Last Story could also be announce for NA at E3.

gamenerd15

They will announce project cafe most likely without any other details except maybe close to final casing design just like when they talked about Project Revolution for the first time. Then TGS for controller info HOPEFULLY, and E3 2012 for the big reveal.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

[QUOTE="darth-pyschosis"]

I don't believe that takes into consideration employees, R&D, $100 or more for parts and stuff. Just putting some RAM, CPU and GPU and adding it doesn't work. You need USB ports, need Wireless Cards, Blutooth, etc. And all the licensing for it too.

darth-pyschosis

Nintendo is always working on new consoles. Add a small amount like $5 extra into the cost for future R&D, add $2 per unit to help pay for employees. That $2 goes to $20 million dollars after selling 10 million units. I don't know if that would pay Nintendo's pay roll, but I'm sure it would make a dent. Everything all companies sell have some tiny cost added to pay for things like R/D and Employees.

Infact, I'm willing to bet they want to make as much money towards R&D for the 3DS Lite or whatever it will be. Those $40-$50 that nintendo supposedly made per unit off each Wii in its first year or so, probably developed Motion Plus, Wii Fit, the DSi and DSi XL.

It's going to add a lot, but you can't count it out. I'm just saying, even if you ignore what I just said, the estimate the poster made isn't accurate. Parts and matierals and all that good stuff that goes underappreciated needs to be added and I've read it usually adds about $100 or so, more or less. His estimate pegs it at about $220-250, without considering parts, licensing, and a cut for retailers. Like I said in another thread, we've seen how much of a cut retailers want from the 3DS, they want (but may or may not get) $30 to $50 more per unit.

But I stick with my prediction of the console being $349 whenever the heck it comes out

Since you think your 100 dollar estimate is accurate, I looked up the breakdown of hardware for the wii launch, here is the actual break down:

Graphics chip: $29.60
CPU: $13.00
DRAM: $7.80
Optical disk drive: $31.00
Power supply: $11.30
Manufacturing cost: $19.50
Cost total: $158.30

Wholesale price: $195.95

The 158 does not include Wii mote, nunchuk, cords and cables, Wii Sports, packaging and shipping.

They made 40 dollars on every sale, those things bring the price up to about 200 dollars, so your 100 estimate for all that extra that I am forgetting is actually off by a factor of 10!

I do not know that Nintendo is using an APU from AMD, but they are using a GPU from them, I am certain of that, considering that, I am certain they would use an APU design, even if they went with an IBM CPU, though I believe the AMD engineer who leaked that they were working on a CPU for a home console for release fall 2012.

Trinity is a main stream chip that will cost OEM's 110 dollars, in bulk they should be able to get them for around $80 dollars, the CPU and GPU in the wii ran them 43 dollars, I think nintendo would release the console at 299/349 and pick up this DX11 APU with a minimum of HD6650 inside of it.

again, I like this discussion...

what are your thoughts on the type of media the games will be displayed on?

Normal game discs that they're utilizing now, or something new? I doubt they'd be willing to pay Sony to utilize Bluray discs. I'm willing to bet they'll come up with their own format. Also, if so.... how would all that affect your theory?

redlightstudios

Panasonic is a good friend to Nintendo, they even were allowed to make their own gamecube, they also happen to be part of the Blu-ray Association, so I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to use Blu-ray, but they could just as easily use HD-DVD, it was a standard in china long after it's western death, and it's maximum capacity was 3 17GB layers, or 51GB's which should give them the room to do whatever, but all I'm saying is they have options.

As for Price, again the Trinity core will cost under $110 OEM as they are to compete with i3 cores, which are priced accordingly. In bulk you will see that price drop up to 40%... the wii's cost breakdown is $158 + wiimote, nunchuk, wii sports, packaging and shipping ~200 all together was estimated at launch. Moving that price up to 299-349 allows for the hardware I'm suggestion with the same or greater margin including the controller.