Samsung Barred from Selling Galaxy Tab in European Union

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]And has anyone used a Blackberry Playbook yet? It's so darn small, kind of the in-between sized tablet. The useless size.PBSnipes

No because lolblackberry, but the form factor is supposed to actually be pretty useful. It's big enough you can comfortably use it for tablet-y stuff like browsing and watching videos, but small enough that you're more likely to carry it around when on-the-go than a relatively large iPad.

Nook Color.

That is all.

I don't even think the iPad is that "big" or hard to carry around. I have a little cover for it, and it's light enough, that I can just carry the thing in my arm... If I need to "stuff" it somewhere, a messenger bag, or something works just fine. As for "using" it, well the size for me is just fine I feel. I hold it with one arm supporting it from the back, my hand clasping the top, and then my other hand does the work. Is it really "that" big? yoshi_64

It's not the size in and of itself, but the the fact the iPad is big enough that you have to think about whether or not it's worth bringing in the first place, whereas with something the size of the Playbook you're apparently more likely to just automatically grab it whenever you leave the house. I don't think anyone sees it as a deal breaker either way, but contrary to what Mac said I think there would be a pretty significant market for "mid" sized tablet.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]I don't even think the iPad is that "big" or hard to carry around. I have a little cover for it, and it's light enough, that I can just carry the thing in my arm... If I need to "stuff" it somewhere, a messenger bag, or something works just fine. As for "using" it, well the size for me is just fine I feel. I hold it with one arm supporting it from the back, my hand clasping the top, and then my other hand does the work. Is it really "that" big? PBSnipes

It's not the size in and of itself, but the the fact the iPad is big enough that you have to think about whether or not it's worth bringing in the first place, whereas with something the size of the Playbook you're apparently more likely to just automatically grab it whenever you leave the house. I don't think anyone sees it as a deal breaker either way, but contrary to what Mac said I think there would be a pretty significant market for "mid" sized tablet.

...but contrary to what Mac said I think there would be a pretty significant market for "mid" sized tablet.

PBSnipes

The ban is currently lifted in the EU minus Germany.

The injunction was lifted because of doubts about the Düsseldorf court's ability to enact a Europe-wide ban of the device. This means that the lifting of the ban is basically a matter of doubtful jurisdiction, not any comment on the competence of Apple's arguments. Since the court does have jurisdiction in Germany, the ban currently stands there.

...

The German courts will have an official hearing to determine a permanent ban of the Galaxy Tab on August 25th. In the meantime, the overturn of this preliminary injunction should help Samsung's business in Europe as it can continue to sell its Galaxy Tab hardware.

forgot the link

 "The Galaxy Tab was stretched via Photoshop or some image editor to look like it had the same dimensions as the iPad 2. The Galaxy Tab was reduced from a 1.46 aspect ratio (for the tablet, no the display) down to a more iPad-like 1.36.  The iPad has an aspect ratio of 1.30."

oh Apple... i am disappoint.

 "The Galaxy Tab was stretched via Photoshop or some image editor to look like it had the same dimensions as the iPad 2. The Galaxy Tab was reduced from a 1.46 aspect ratio (for the tablet, no the display) down to a more iPad-like 1.36.  The iPad has an aspect ratio of 1.30."

 

oh Apple... i am disappoint.

 

 

Ontain

What, you expected cla-ss? From Apple?

It should be stated that neither Samsung nor Apple has commented on said skewed photograph, which means the image could possibly have been released by Samsung as an early marketing image. Not to mention, Apple's claims don't mention the aspect ratio, so much as they do the shape, presentation, design, and packaging of the device. It should also be said that Apple's problems with the Galaxy line of products began in 2010.

In addition, Samsung has an industry reputation for finding a successful product and making a B+ version, a close copy of said successful product. Lee Don-joo (executive vice president of Samsung's mobile division) even said that the original design for the Galaxy Tab was unacceptable comparing it Apple's iPad 2, and that they would need to make it thin like Apple's device.

I'll also throw these in for comparison. You cannot deny the similarities. I'm not sure it warrants a suing, but they are quite similar-

Not a lot of differentiation there.

Remember, critical thinking and critical reading skills are very important!

seriously?  Apple thinks it's got the patent for white books and black borders?

look at the LCD tv market. the typical square and black border is just that. typical.

the general shape of the tablet was obvious even in 1994 when Knight Ridder made a video about that type of device.

http://mashable.com/2009/08/22/knight-ridder-tablet/

this is a BS suit to keep android devices out of the tablet market because Apple is afraid of android. they lost the smartphone market to them.  They don't want that to happen to tablet market as well.

as for your opionion on the actual device. It doesn't matter. the first andriod phones sucked too. but they get better. Apple is trying to stop progress before it can be a threat to them. to me and most tech bloggers that's obvious.

Apple is afraid of android. they lost the smartphone market to them. Ontain

What did Apple loose? Apple currently has $75.876 billion in cash on-hand after its raucously successful third quarter. Are they going to discontinue the iphone now? Shoot I hope not, I wanted to get one in January. How many different android sku's from how many different companies are going against a single iphone to compare numbers? Not to mention only Verizion and AT&T sell the iphone. The U.S. market gets got a 49% Android handsets shipped out forgoing that of iPhone's comparatively under average 31%, yet still that share makes the iPhone the most popular handset there is. Yeah, that's real impressive. Heil68

they are losing market share to android very quickly. is that in dispute?  sure they are still the most popular handset but you know they make $$ off the apps right. they want it to become a huge profit generator like itunes is now.  devices that have android hurt those app dollars regardless of the manufacturer. that's why Apple wants to stop Androids.   

this is a BS suit to keep android devices out of the tablet market because Apple is afraid of android. they lost the smartphone market to them.  They don't want that to happen to tablet market as well.

as for your opinion on the actual device. It doesn't matter. the first andriod phones sucked too. but they get better. Apple is trying to stop progress before it can be a threat to them. to me and most tech bloggers that's obvious.

Ontain

Thank you! This is what I've been saying from the start. 

Apple doesn't want competition and Android is shaping up to be a legitimate competitor in a market they used to own and they don't like it. So, they draw up a bunch of spurious lawsuits designed to keep their competitors out of the marketplace. This isn't about protecting their patents. It's about keeping their competitors from competing.

I used to wonder why Apple hasn't gone after HP because of the Touchpad, which packs an identical screen size, resolution and aspect ratio into a design that's far more similar to the iPad than any Honeycomb tablet on the market, but then, after stories like this, I realized. It's because Apple knows that the Touchpad isn't selling and therefore isn't a threat. Android, on the other hand, is a threat, and Apple doesn't like it.

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

this is a BS suit to keep android devices out of the tablet market because Apple is afraid of android. they lost the smartphone market to them.  They don't want that to happen to tablet market as well.

as for your opinion on the actual device. It doesn't matter. the first andriod phones sucked too. but they get better. Apple is trying to stop progress before it can be a threat to them. to me and most tech bloggers that's obvious.

The_Game21x

Thank you! This is what I've been saying from the start. 

Apple doesn't want competition and Android is shaping up to be a legitimate competitor in a market they used to own and they don't like it. So, they draw up a bunch of spurious lawsuits designed to keep their competitors out of the marketplace. This isn't about protecting their patents. It's about keeping their competitors from competing.

I used to wonder why Apple hasn't gone after HP because of the Touchpad, which packs an identical screen size, resolution and aspect ratio into a design that's far more similar to the iPad than any Honeycomb tablet on the market, but then, after stories like this, I realized. It's because Apple knows that the Touchpad isn't selling and therefore isn't a threat. Android, on the other hand, is a threat, and Apple doesn't like it.

Of course they don't want competition. Any company would do this if they thought they had a chance to be successful. Knowingly Apple, HP, Samsung, and any other major company has gone over their competitors products looking for enough similarities to get some sort of a lawsuit out of the deal and stop the competition. 

This happens in nearly every market equally, I don't know why it's such a big deal that Apple did it. Obviously they are about to fail as everything is getting overturned anyways.  Remember all of those lawsuits from small, 3rd party companies against Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo for something they made that is similar? We hear about them all of the time. This is the same deal.

As a basic principle of business you do what you can to get ahead as long as it is legal. If a product of your competition is similar enough to yours and there is reason to believe it's infringing on your copyrights or patents, you can legally take it to court and potentially really harm your competition. When designing competition products, companies always walk a very thin line of originality and infringement of some sort. Usually if the competition who did copy you is not selling well or not hurting your sales, you don't bother with the legal fees because unless it's a blatant copy, taking somebody to court is rather expensive and usually not worth the risk. However in this case Apple saw a potential risk of losing sales, enough similarities based upon the evidence they have gathered, and decided it was worth their time and money to try to get it blocked. However it's looking like it will backfire which will cause both bad press, counter law-suits, and tons of negative things.

That is business. It's a dirty, scumy world where nobody is friends. 

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

this is a BS suit to keep android devices out of the tablet market because Apple is afraid of android. they lost the smartphone market to them.  They don't want that to happen to tablet market as well.

as for your opinion on the actual device. It doesn't matter. the first andriod phones sucked too. but they get better. Apple is trying to stop progress before it can be a threat to them. to me and most tech bloggers that's obvious.

Wasdie

Thank you! This is what I've been saying from the start. 

Apple doesn't want competition and Android is shaping up to be a legitimate competitor in a market they used to own and they don't like it. So, they draw up a bunch of spurious lawsuits designed to keep their competitors out of the marketplace. This isn't about protecting their patents. It's about keeping their competitors from competing.

I used to wonder why Apple hasn't gone after HP because of the Touchpad, which packs an identical screen size, resolution and aspect ratio into a design that's far more similar to the iPad than any Honeycomb tablet on the market, but then, after stories like this, I realized. It's because Apple knows that the Touchpad isn't selling and therefore isn't a threat. Android, on the other hand, is a threat, and Apple doesn't like it.

Of course they don't want competition. Any company would do this if they thought they had a chance to be successful. Knowingly Apple, HP, Samsung, and any other major company has gone over their competitors products looking for enough similarities to get some sort of a lawsuit out of the deal and stop the competition. 

This happens in nearly every market equally, I don't know why it's such a big deal that Apple did it. Obviously they are about to fail as everything is getting overturned anyways.  Remember all of those lawsuits from small, 3rd party companies against Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo for something they made that is similar? We hear about them all of the time. This is the same deal.

As a basic principle of business you do what you can to get ahead as long as it is legal. If a product of your competition is similar enough to yours and there is reason to believe it's infringing on your copyrights or patents, you can legally take it to court and potentially really harm your competition. When designing competition products, companies always walk a very thin line of originality and infringement of some sort. Usually if the competition who did copy you is not selling well or not hurting your sales, you don't bother with the legal fees because unless it's a blatant copy, taking somebody to court is rather expensive and usually not worth the risk. However in this case Apple saw a potential risk of losing sales, enough similarities based upon the evidence they have gathered, and decided it was worth their time and money to try to get it blocked. However it's looking like it will backfire which will cause both bad press, counter law-suits, and tons of negative things.

That is business. It's a dirty, scumy world where nobody is friends. 

then why were you downplaying the threat that android is to apple?yes every corporation does this but at least admit it when Apple does dirty stuff too.

then why were you downplaying the threat that android is to apple?yes every corporation does this but at least admit it when Apple does dirty stuff too.

Ontain

Well given the track record of Andorid based tablets, it's still hard to say that they are a big threat to Apple at this point. Maybe Apple is taking preemptive action instead of ever gambling it. Who knows, they probably hae their reasons.

Though nobody should ever say that no company, especially one the size of apple, hasn't done their fair share of dirty tactics. It's pretty common if you're going to get that big.

Lots and Lots of Words Wasdie

You're acting like I didn't know eveything you just said. I know full well that other companies do many of the same things Apple is doing and that business is sometimes a dirty...well...business. I'm not talking about other companies though because this thread was made about Apple, so I'm focusing on what they're doing. 

My point is that Apple is just as dirty and scummy as any other corporation out there (perhaps even more so, given recent events). I'm just pointing this out to certain people in this thread who seem to think Apple is some kind of saint. 

[QUOTE="Ontain"]then why were you downplaying the threat that android is to apple?yes every corporation does this but at least admit it when Apple does dirty stuff too.Wasdie

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]Lots and Lots of Words The_Game21x

You're acting like I didn't know eveything you just said. I know full well that other companies do many of the same things Apple is doing and that business is sometimes a dirty...well...business. I'm not talking about other companies though because this thread was made about Apple, so I'm focusing on what they're doing. 

My point is that Apple is just as dirty and scummy as any other corporation out there (perhaps even more so, given recent events). I'm just pointing this out to certain people in this thread who seem to think Apple is some kind of saint. 

Other than you saying "stay cIassy Apple" I don't really see where you were trying to make that point nor have I seen anybody in this thread saying Apple is a saint when it comes to business. 

I don't think anybody would disagree when I say that Apple has been tied up in just as many lawsuits as any other company. A quick Google search shows countless lawsuits they have filed or been filed against. 

I dunno, if Apple really wanted to forge evidence, I would assume they would do something a little better than just altering the proportions with Photoshop, for anyone checking the files (which thanks to the beloved Internet means millions) to see.

That sounds more like a honest mistake, tbh.

I dunno, if Apple really wanted to forge evidence, I would assume they would do something a little better than just altering the proportions with Photoshop, for anyone checking the files (which thanks to the beloved Internet means millions) to see.

That sounds more like a honest mistake, tbh.

IronBass

If they had just altered the proportions, maybe you could chalk that up to a mistake (although that's a pretty big and complicated mistake to make) but editing out the Samsung logo and using a shot of the Android app drawer as the main screen on the Galaxy Tab to mislead people into believing that's the actual Android UI is something I can't see as anything other than deliberate. 

I can see where the lawsuit is coming from, those tablets looks so similar. However it's a question on functionality vs. style. It's really the most logical way for a tablet like that to be made. Can you own exclusive rights to that exact design?

It's a really tricky question with a lot of variables. 

Well given the track record of Andorid based tablets, it's still hard to say that they are a big threat to Apple at this point. Maybe Apple is taking preemptive action instead of ever gambling it. Who knows, they probably hae their reasons.

Though nobody should ever say that no company, especially one the size of apple, hasn't done their fair share of dirty tactics. It's pretty common if you're going to get that big.

Wasdie

this is exactly the reason. of course it's for preemptive action. they saw what happened in the phone market. like i said. the first android phones weren't great either.  

I'm just reacting to some in this thread that see this type of action as a good thing for the consumer. no, it's not a good thing no matter who does it. the patent system is so messed up right now and stifles innovation and competition. look at the billions being spent on patent profolios just to protect from others.  these are billions that could be used to actually make stuff.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

I dunno, if Apple really wanted to forge evidence, I would assume they would do something a little better than just altering the proportions with Photoshop, for anyone checking the files (which thanks to the beloved Internet means millions) to see.

That sounds more like a honest mistake, tbh.

The_Game21x

If they had just altered the proportions, maybe you could chalk that up to a mistake (although that's a pretty big and complicated mistake to make) but editing out the Samsung logo and using a shot of the Android app drawer as the main screen on the Galaxy Tab to mislead people into believing that's the actual Android UI is something I can't see as anything other than deliberate. 

If it was deliberate you can guarantee that some people at Apple will not have their jobs for long. I really wouldn't overgeneralize the whole thing by saying Apple is all bad. Companies that size, operating in that many countries, have  so many hundreds of departments. From my own personal work in a very large company, it's almost a certainty that most of the higher-ups in apple would have no idea what's going on. The legal department is usually pretty separated from the rest of the company. 

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Well given the track record of Andorid based tablets, it's still hard to say that they are a big threat to Apple at this point. Maybe Apple is taking preemptive action instead of ever gambling it. Who knows, they probably hae their reasons.

Though nobody should ever say that no company, especially one the size of apple, hasn't done their fair share of dirty tactics. It's pretty common if you're going to get that big.

Ontain

this is exactly the reason. of course it's for preemptive action. they saw what happened in the phone market. like i said. the first android phones weren't great either.  

I'm just reacting to some in this thread that see this type of action as a good thing for the consumer. no, it's not a good thing no matter who does it. the patent system is so messed up right now and stiffels innovation and competition. look at the billions being spent on patent profolios just to protect from others.  these are billions that could be used to actually make stuff.

Yeah the patent industry is broken. You can patent or copyright something that is so borad yet still win in court. Look at Bethesda vs. Mojan. Bethesda is sueing over the name Scrolls. How does the Mojan game Scrolls have anything to do with The Elder Scrolls or the word scrolls have anything to do with The Elder Scrolls. It's pathetic and makes me rage.

If they had just altered the proportions, maybe you could chalk that up to a mistake (although that's a pretty big and complicated mistake to make) but editing out the Samsung logo and using a shot of the Android app drawer as the main screen on the Galaxy Tab to mislead people into believing that's the actual Android UI is something I can't see as anything other than deliberate. The_Game21x

But the point remains, they're too obvious things, that anyone checking the files could notice. And that information expands quickly, as we're seeing.

If Apple really forged it, they did a very stupid job at it. A bit too stupid for me to believe it's actual forgery and not an honest misunderstanding.

i don't know if it was a mistake or on purpose but it wouldn't be the first time that a lawyers would have tried to slip something through and say it was a mistake afterwards.

and technically it did get passed over and there was an injunction. only later did ppl find it.

i don't know if it was a mistake or on purpose but it wouldn't be the first time that a lawyers would have tried to slip something through and say it was a mistake afterwards.

and technically it did get passed over and there was an injunction. only later did ppl find it.

 

Ontain

That's what I'm thinking. 

There's no way Apple's legal team would've allowed such a "mistake" to slip through unless they meant to. And like you said, it worked.

It's more likely that they let something like this slip than making such a poor forge.

Had they actually mean it, they would have put a bit more effort than changing logos and cutting proportions.

Especially because they knew (like everyone) that the case would a) be observed by a lot of people and b) wasn't going to stop there, it was obvious that there was going to be an appeal, the evidence would be re-checked, etc.

then why were you downplaying the threat that android is to apple?yes every corporation does this but at least admit it when Apple does dirty stuff too.

 

Ontain

Stop saying Apple is afraid or threatened by Android, or has lost the market to Android devices. It doesn't mean anything. I expected you to provide more meaningful discussion points.

And nobody seems to care that aspect ratio isn't something Apple is citing? How about the fact that neither Samsung nor Apple have commented on the alleged proportion snafu? It could be as simple as Apple lawyers using an image from Samsung's marketing, an image Samsung doctored to look more like an iPad. Do I believe this could be true? Maybe, but I'm not going to put any money on it. I find it strange that neither company has said a thing yet.

I want to encourage you all once again to remain objective, and stray from hyperbole.

And just like that, WebOS, and another of Apple and Google's challengers is dead

The_Game21x

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

And just like that, WebOS, and another of Apple and Google's challengers is dead

musicalmac

Speaking of hyperbole...

[QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

And just like that, WebOS, and another of Apple and Google's challengers is dead

The_Game21x

Speaking of hyperbole...

[QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

And just like that, WebOS, and another of Apple and Google's challengers is dead

The_Game21x

Speaking of hyperbole...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/17/139723088/the-smartphone-patent-war-in-1-graph

This is a hot mess, I blame Apple for this :P 

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="musicalmac"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

And just like that, WebOS, and another of Apple and Google's challengers is dead

musicalmac

Speaking of hyperbole...

Of course, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one of HP's biggest competitors in the smartphone and tablet markets had NOTHING to do with their decision to withdraw from said markets. Yeah, that's logical. :roll:

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-caught-resizing-samsung-kit-again-in-patent-suit-19172992/

looks like Apple did the same resizing with a phone comparison as well.but yeah it's just a mistake again. no way both of these are deliberate.  yeah because resizing so that the devices look the same size has not effect on a case that is based on products looking a like.  :roll:

PS. i don't find it strange that neither is commenting. they are in the middle a lawsuit. you save that stuff for in the court. 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/17/139723088/the-smartphone-patent-war-in-1-graph

This is a hot mess, I blame Apple for this :P 

 

FireEmblem_Man

Hooray for software patents!

Of course, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one of HP's biggest competitors in the smartphone and tablet markets had NOTHING to do with their decision to withdraw from said markets. Yeah, that's logical. :roll: The_Game21x

WebOS's death was entirely self-inflicted: Palm saddled it with weak hardware and questionable marketing, and HP decided they wanted to be the west coast IBM before the ink on their $1.2 billion cheque had dried. In and of itself webOS is still a strong competitor for iOS and Android -- if it had ever been given a fighting chance (and apparently everyone and their dog is considering picking it up in the wake of the Google-Motorola deal), it would've been right up there with Apple and Google.

http://www.slashgear.com/apple-caught-resizing-samsung-kit-again-in-patent-suit-19172992/

looks like Apple did the same resizing with a phone comparison as well.but yeah it's just a mistake again. no way both of these are deliberate. yeah because resizing so that the devices look the same size has not effect on a case that is based on products looking a like. :roll:

PS. i don't find it strange that neither is commenting. they are in the middle a lawsuit. you save that stuff for in the court.

Ontain

Ha, I stand corrected. That's definitely too much for it to be a mistake. But really, cutting the size? What are Apple's lawyers, 13?

Look at that, Best Buy (and/or Samsung) is doing their best now to give Android tablets away (potentially in the wake of the HP tablet failure). Can you imagine if Apple did that in their annual back-to-school deal? It would be a bloodbath, lol...musicalmac

they are both samsung products so i don't see the big deal. Sony did the same thing with it's tv's and the ps3.  when you're selling a $1500-2000 tv i guess you can eat the cost of the tablet.  

Who would have thought an oversized smartphone would have caused this much chaos?

I can't even believe there's a market this big for tablets that these patent wars are even happening.