Samsung Barred from Selling Galaxy Tab in European Union

The problem with Apple is that they consider all of their products to be new, unique inventions. It's not an mp3 player, it's an iPod. It's not a cel phone, it's an iPhone. It's not a tablet, it's an iPad.

None of their products are unique inventions. None should be protected by patent. Any company should be able to make their own tablet to compete with the ipad just like anyone can make a laptop computer to compete in that space. The fact that Apple think they can patent a screen with a black border just goes to show how pathetic the patent wars have become. 

Hey look, it's Superman! 

the tablet concept has been pretty much what the tablets look like now for decades. it's only now that technology has allowed a consumer tablet to match the concepts that were there since many old scifi movies,books and shows.

i thought the phone was more novel though.  from what i heard it was Steve Jobs that wanted to do the ipad but then had the idea of  making the iphone first.  it was a brilliant move. 

Damn those old tablets are huge. Any idea what they're called?fabz_95

from that side view. one was at least a laptop tablet.

basically a laptop with a screen you could flip around and use as a tablet.  

"Andrew Barrow, director of consumer products and pricing for Lenovo Western Europe, said he believes that 20,000 units sold is the more likely answer for Samsung's total Galaxy Tab sales. He didn't give any reasoning for his estimation in an interview with The Guardian"

"So who's to believe? Are Lenovo's claims accurate, or is Samsung playing coy with its sales figures just because? Mobile analyst Rob Bamforth told The Guardian that he believes that Samsung's channel partners would have squabbled a bit more if sales figures were that low. As well, claims Bamforth, the Galaxy Tab would have probably seen heavy discounts by this time."

Hmm...

Lenovo: Samsung Galaxy Tab Sales 20K, not 2 Million. Why do they even try? :?musicalmac

To be fair, that was the first gen tablet, and it was a really ****ty tablet.  It did absolutely nothing to distinguish itself from a smart phone.  It even had a smart phone OS.  The new ones look pretty impressive, if you're into the whole tablet thing.

To be fair, that was the first gen tablet, and it was a really ****ty tablet.  It did absolutely nothing to distinguish itself from a smart phone.  It even had a smart phone OS.  The new ones look pretty impressive, if you're into the whole tablet thing.

Guppy507

The way it works won't impress you. We got one at work so we could test the website on it and other mobile devices (Galaxy Tab 10.1). The hardware feels fantastic, but the screen isn't going to blow you away. The real problem is the software. Apps crash frequently, only one web browser works properly (Firefox Beta), and even then the scrolling is choppy. The unit even gets hot after minor use (more than 10 minutes).

The guy who wanted it instead of an iPad is regretting his decision. He has it updated to the latest everything (latest version of honeycomb), and it still doesn't work very well. It's a pretty disappointing product.

While these tablet competitors "ship" hundreds of thousands or millions of tablets, actual sales are in the thousands--tens of thousands for a "great" tablet.Heil68

Actually, the "best" non-Apple android tablets sell about 100,000! As of April, the Xoom had sold roughly 100,00 units. Of course, that's also roughly a third of what the iPad sold in the first week. By August, it was estimated that Motorola had sold around 440,000 Xoom tablets (EDIT: Motorola shipped 440,000 Xoom tablets, which means sales are probably far lower than this number), which was 20 times fewer tablets than Apple had sold, posting 9.25 million tablets sold (sold, not shipped) in the quarter alone.

The article you linked to does make an astute observation, putting the Nook Color, and upcoming Amazon Kindle Color, tablet in a different category than the iPad -- because they don't have near the same capabilities.

So when I posed the question -- "Why do [Android tablet manufacturers] even try?" -- I was on to something. It seems people are starting to come to their senses, and focus more on Android phones.

"Andrew Barrow, director of consumer products and pricing for Lenovo Western Europe, said he believes that 20,000 units sold is the more likely answer for Samsung's total Galaxy Tab sales. He didn't give any reasoning for his estimation in an interview with The Guardian"

"So who's to believe? Are Lenovo's claims accurate, or is Samsung playing coy with its sales figures just because? Mobile analyst Rob Bamforth told The Guardian that he believes that Samsung's channel partners would have squabbled a bit more if sales figures were that low. As well, claims Bamforth, the Galaxy Tab would have probably seen heavy discounts by this time."

Hmm...

The_Game21x

It seems we have already forgotten earlier information about Android tablet sales.

According to Google's own data (back at the beginning of August), it seemed only 1.17 million android tablets were out there in the wild. There is wiggle room for that number, but when the iPad is already reportedly outselling all other android tablets 24 to 1, a little wiggle room doesn't mean much.

The recent HP Touchpad sales spike also speaks volumes to android tablet sales. It already tops android tablets in advertising share. This article seems to give Samsung and Android tablets the benefit of the doubt, claiming at least 4 million in the wild today (it's too bad we don't get accurate sales figures from Samsung, Motorola, or any of the other Android tablet makers). Assuming there are 4 million out there, that would android tablets outnumber HP's Touchpad by a measure of 10 to 1 (this ratio would be quite different if we were to assume only about 1.5 million android tablets have been sold). It's no wonder people are focusing their efforts back on mobile phones. At least Android has more of the market in that realm.

These figures lead more credence to articles that cite android tablets filling up stock rooms and sitting on shelves. It's a true catch 21, because either way it's bad news for android tablet makers.

Out of interest, what do you guys use your tablets for? I can't see much use for one since everything I'd want to do I could do on my phone, the only benefit would be the bigger screen for movies.fabz_95

Out of interest, what do you guys use your tablets for? I can't see much use for one since everything I'd want to do I could do on my phone, the only benefit would be the bigger screen for movies.fabz_95

Speaking of movies, it's actually a perfect tool for a First Assitant Director on a film set.

I was looking for a particular app someone once showed me for an iPad to post here, and I came across this page instead.

Now I want an iPad on all my film sets :shock: 

Out of interest, what do you guys use your tablets for? I can't see much use for one since everything I'd want to do I could do on my phone, the only benefit would be the bigger screen for movies.fabz_95

In my experience, there are three types of tablet users:

Productivity types- The people who actually, genuinely get good use out of their tablet. Due to the large screen but realtively small form factor of tablets, they're perfect for on-the-go productivity (ie if you're commuting to work and want to get something done on the train/bus/subway or need something to take notes in a meeting) and things like what FrozenLiquid was talking about. A smartphone would be too small to use comfortably and a laptop too big to be worth taking, so there's a definite niche here.

Entertainment types- AKA "big smartphone" territory. The bigger screen makes browsing, watching movies, reading etc. better than on a smartphone, but those advantages are largely washed out by the larger, less convenient than a smartphone form-factor and the fact you're probably already carrying around a smartphone anyway. Nice to have, but probably not worth the money for the majority of users (who would be better off with either just their smartphone for short-term use or a proper laptop for longer-term use). 

Apple types- The people who are so boring they have to talk about how "they don't even use their desktop now that they have an iPad" at parties. That's not to say all (or even a majority of) Apple fans are like this, but similar to the "let's sit around blogging in Starbucks for 17 straight hours" Macbook owners they're something of a vocal (and thoroughly obnoxious) minority.

Shut up. The reason you only use your iPad is either because all you ever used a computer for is looking at lolcats, in which case congrats on spending $500+ on something a $50 used Dell could accomplish just as well; or you're doing it out of some misguided, hipster-esque sense of being ahead of the curve, in which case you are an a******. Go grab your half-caf grande soy caramel macchiatto, put on your Ray Ban Wayfarers (without lenses, obviously) hop in your Prius, go for a drive, and have a good long think about your priorities.

It seems we have already forgotten earlier information about Android tablet sales.

According to Google's own data (back at the beginning of August), it seemed only 1.17 million android tablets were out there in the wild. There is wiggle room for that number, but when the iPad is already reportedly outselling all other android tablets 24 to 1, a little wiggle room doesn't mean much.

The recent HP Touchpad sales spike also speaks volumes to android tablet sales. It already tops android tablets in advertising share. This article seems to give Samsung and Android tablets the benefit of the doubt, claiming at least 4 million in the wild today (it's too bad we don't get accurate sales figures from Samsung, Motorola, or any of the other Android tablet makers). Assuming there are 4 million out there, that would android tablets outnumber HP's Touchpad by a measure of 10 to 1 (this ratio would be quite different if we were to assume only about 1.5 million android tablets have been sold). It's no wonder people are focusing their efforts back on mobile phones. At least Android has more of the market in that realm.

These figures lead more credence to articles that cite android tablets filling up stock rooms and sitting on shelves. It's a true catch 21, because either way it's bad news for android tablet makers.

musicalmac

That 1.17 million Android tablet number wasn't a factual representation of the number of Android tablets in the wild, it was inferred by the writer of the article you linked. Considering Best Buy was sitting on stock of 270,000 Touchpads and wanted HP to take them back after less than two months on the market, I find it hard to believe that Best Buy could be sitting on an even larger stock of Android tablets and hasn't made a peep to manufacturers in a similar fashion.

In regards to the Touchpad's advertising share, notice that the spike occurred on the 19th the day HP's fire sale pricing went into effect. and that Android's advertising share had been consistent until then, not to mention that, at least according to ubergizmo's chart, Android hasn't been topped, it's been encroached upon. I'm sure a massive influx of Touchpad users following a $99 sell off would cause similar numbers no matter what product it was up against. Heck, given sufficient time and stock, I'm sure the Touchpad could even eclipse the iPad in that respect. $99 tablets sell. 

And then there's this...

"2 Are Jumptap numbers representative?

While the statistics are very interesting, do they provide an accurate picture of what's going on? I don't know, but I doubt it. Things just don't seem to add up. Android tablets have more apps, more users, and probably more advertisers too. And if you take into account that there are many more Android tablets, this would mean that advertising on Android performs 10X less, which is unlikely.I personally don't think that these numbers are showing the big picture."

...which I find very interesting.

Out of interest, what do you guys use your tablets for? I can't see much use for one since everything I'd want to do I could do on my phone, the only benefit would be the bigger screen for movies.fabz_95

It's basically the same as a laptop, so i imagine people use them for similar functions, only it has a more convenient instant-access appeal than most laptops do. 

[QUOTE="musicalmac"]

It seems we have already forgotten earlier information about Android tablet sales.

According to Google's own data (back at the beginning of August), it seemed only 1.17 million android tablets were out there in the wild. There is wiggle room for that number, but when the iPad is already reportedly outselling all other android tablets 24 to 1, a little wiggle room doesn't mean much.

The recent HP Touchpad sales spike also speaks volumes to android tablet sales. It already tops android tablets in advertising share. This article seems to give Samsung and Android tablets the benefit of the doubt, claiming at least 4 million in the wild today (it's too bad we don't get accurate sales figures from Samsung, Motorola, or any of the other Android tablet makers). Assuming there are 4 million out there, that would android tablets outnumber HP's Touchpad by a measure of 10 to 1 (this ratio would be quite different if we were to assume only about 1.5 million android tablets have been sold). It's no wonder people are focusing their efforts back on mobile phones. At least Android has more of the market in that realm.

These figures lead more credence to articles that cite android tablets filling up stock rooms and sitting on shelves. It's a true catch 21, because either way it's bad news for android tablet makers.

The_Game21x

That 1.17 million Android tablet number wasn't a factual representation of the number of Android tablets in the wild, it was inferred by the writer of the article you linked. Considering Best Buy was sitting on stock of 270,000 Touchpads and wanted HP to take them back after less than two months on the market, I find it hard to believe that Best Buy could be sitting on an even larger stock of Android tablets and hasn't made a peep to manufacturers in a similar fashion.

In regards to the Touchpad's advertising share, notice that the spike occurred on the 19th the day HP's fire sale pricing went into effect. and that Android's advertising share had been consistent until then, not to mention that, at least according to ubergizmo's chart, Android hasn't been topped, it's been encroached upon. I'm sure a massive influx of Touchpad users following a $99 sell off would cause similar numbers no matter what product it was up against. Heck, given sufficient time and stock, I'm sure the Touchpad could even eclipse the iPad in that respect. $99 tablets sell. 

And then there's this...

"2 Are Jumptap numbers representative?

While the statistics are very interesting, do they provide an accurate picture of what's going on? I don't know, but I doubt it. Things just don't seem to add up. Android tablets have more apps, more users, and probably more advertisers too. And if you take into account that there are many more Android tablets, this would mean that advertising on Android performs 10X less, which is unlikely.I personally don't think that these numbers are showing the big picture."

...which I find very interesting.

So in other words if you aren't first you're last and spin the numbers to save face? Yea, it's interesting to see them scramble to do that. Ipad has no real competition. Heil68

Believe what you want. I promise I won't lose any sleep over it. The iPad's domination of the tablet market has no bearing on my opinion of it. I'm just hesitant to believe the estimates and speculation from the executives of rival corporations and advertising firms when they themselves have no access to the official numbers.

[QUOTE="Heil68"] So in other words if you aren't first you're last and spin the numbers to save face? Yea, it's interesting to see them scramble to do that. Ipad has no real competition. The_Game21x

Believe what you want. I promise I won't lose any sleep over it. The iPad's domination of the tablet market has no bearing on my opinion of it. I'm just hesitant to believe the estimates and speculation from the executives of rival corporations and advertising firms when they themselves have no access to the official numbers.

Why would you loose sleep over an electronic device? That seems odd to even bring that up. I could care less that the 360 or Wii has more sales than the PS3, when I know the PS3 is just that much better than both. :> You have to admit it's impressive that Apple, with a single device can take on multiple vendors who use Android OS for their tablet and just dominate them to the point it's laughable. Similar to the every smart phone using Android being combined to take on the iphone. I guess when you're #`1 tech company in the world, lots of companies target you.Heil68

That was a figure of speech. I thought that would've been evident from the start but I guess I'll have to make my statements a bit more obvious next time.

As far as Apple is concerned, I'm not surprised or impressed at all by Apple being able to take on other vendors and dominate. When you monopolize every aspect of production, marketing, R&D and support of your platform instead of releasing it as a (mostly) open source solution for vendors and, most importantly, beat everyone else to the punch, it's very easy to practically monopolize your corner of the market as well. 

But, I will give credit where credit is due. They were the original, the innovators and changed the smartphone and tablet markets forever (although the latter seems rather inevitable in hindsight after what they did with the iPhone) and I think that iOS is impressive. Apple being the #1 tech company in the world (as you repeatedly state...even when it's completely irrelevant) isn't for nothing. 

The way it works won't impress you. We got one at work so we could test the website on it and other mobile devices (Galaxy Tab 10.1). The hardware feels fantastic, but the screen isn't going to blow you away. The real problem is the software. Apps crash frequently, only one web browser works properly (Firefox Beta), and even then the scrolling is choppy. The unit even gets hot after minor use (more than 10 minutes).

The guy who wanted it instead of an iPad is regretting his decision. He has it updated to the latest everything (latest version of honeycomb), and it still doesn't work very well. It's a pretty disappointing product.

musicalmac

How is it that only one browser works properly?  Unless Samsung REALLY screwed up, the stock Android browser works fine.  The Asus Eee Pad Transformer has an excellent browser (Android 3.1), they've come a long way since the first version of Honeycomb.  It's not iPad 2-level of quality yet, but it's certainly a viable alternative to the first gen iPad.

In my experience, there are three types of tablet users:

Productivity types- The people who actually, genuinely get good use out of their tablet. Due to the large screen but realtively small form factor of tablets, they're perfect for on-the-go productivity (ie if you're commuting to work and want to get something done on the train/bus/subway or need something to take notes in a meeting) and things like what FrozenLiquid was talking about. A smartphone would be too small to use comfortably and a laptop too big to be worth taking, so there's a definite niche here.

Entertainment types- AKA "big smartphone" territory. The bigger screen makes browsing, watching movies, reading etc. better than on a smartphone, but those advantages are largely washed out by the larger, less convenient than a smartphone form-factor and the fact you're probably already carrying around a smartphone anyway. Nice to have, but probably not worth the money for the majority of users (who would be better off with either just their smartphone for short-term use or a proper laptop for longer-term use). 

Apple types- The people who are so boring they have to talk about how "they don't even use their desktop now that they have an iPad" at parties. That's not to say all (or even a majority of) Apple fans are like this, but similar to the "let's sit around blogging in Starbucks for 17 straight hours" Macbook owners they're something of a vocal (and thoroughly obnoxious) minority.

Shut up. The reason you only use your iPad is either because all you ever used a computer for is looking at lolcats, in which case congrats on spending $500+ on something a $50 used Dell could accomplish just as well; or you're doing it out of some misguided, hipster-esque sense of being ahead of the curve, in which case you are an a******. Go grab your half-caf grande soy caramel macchiatto, put on your Ray Ban Wayfarers (without lenses, obviously) hop in your Prius, go for a drive, and have a good long think about your priorities.

PBSnipes

How is it that only one browser works properly?  Unless Samsung REALLY screwed up, the stock Android browser works fine.  The Asus Eee Pad Transformer has an excellent browser (Android 3.1), they've come a long way since the first version of Honeycomb.  It's not iPad 2-level of quality yet, but it's certainly a viable alternative to the first gen iPad.

Guppy507

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

In my experience, there are three types of tablet users:

Productivity types- The people who actually, genuinely get good use out of their tablet. Due to the large screen but realtively small form factor of tablets, they're perfect for on-the-go productivity (ie if you're commuting to work and want to get something done on the train/bus/subway or need something to take notes in a meeting) and things like what FrozenLiquid was talking about. A smartphone would be too small to use comfortably and a laptop too big to be worth taking, so there's a definite niche here.

Entertainment types- AKA "big smartphone" territory. The bigger screen makes browsing, watching movies, reading etc. better than on a smartphone, but those advantages are largely washed out by the larger, less convenient than a smartphone form-factor and the fact you're probably already carrying around a smartphone anyway. Nice to have, but probably not worth the money for the majority of users (who would be better off with either just their smartphone for short-term use or a proper laptop for longer-term use). 

Apple types- The people who are so boring they have to talk about how "they don't even use their desktop now that they have an iPad" at parties. That's not to say all (or even a majority of) Apple fans are like this, but similar to the "let's sit around blogging in Starbucks for 17 straight hours" Macbook owners they're something of a vocal (and thoroughly obnoxious) minority.

Shut up. The reason you only use your iPad is either because all you ever used a computer for is looking at lolcats, in which case congrats on spending $500+ on something a $50 used Dell could accomplish just as well; or you're doing it out of some misguided, hipster-esque sense of being ahead of the curve, in which case you are an a******. Go grab your half-caf grande soy caramel macchiatto, put on your Ray Ban Wayfarers (without lenses, obviously) hop in your Prius, go for a drive, and have a good long think about your priorities.

musicalmac

How is it that only one browser works properly?  Unless Samsung REALLY screwed up, the stock Android browser works fine.  The Asus Eee Pad Transformer has an excellent browser (Android 3.1), they've come a long way since the first version of Honeycomb.  It's not iPad 2-level of quality yet, but it's certainly a viable alternative to the first gen iPad.

Guppy507

Pretty sure this is a fallacy of some kind......

Pretty sure this is a fallacy of some kind......

789shadow

Appeal to inappropriate authority.

Basically, "My anecdotal evidence is better than yours!" Why? "Because it is!"

PB, I usually agree with just about everything you say. Unfortunately here, you're way off base. I know a lot of people with tablets, and none of these perceptions are even close. There isn't hardly a nugget of truth in any of this. musicalmac

Obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule and trying to break down a large number users into three (well, two and a joke) categories is going to involve some over-simplification, but at this point in time tablets are still limited enough that I'd say it's a pretty fair generalization.

They're great devices, but beyond the niche of "I need something bigger than a phone, but smaller than a netbook" they're priced in such a way that they're purely luxury items relative to smartphones and netbooks. Any decent smartphone is going to have your app needs covered, and if you need something bigger an AMD Brazos-based netbook will get you a proper computing experience for significantly less cash and without sacrificing much in the way of portability. As-is tablets are just too limited/expensive to recommend for most users.

(Incidentally, this is why I think there's a market for smaller, ~7" or so tablets. The smaller form factor without sacrificing power/usability means there's a better portability proposition relative to netbooks.) 

(Incidentally, this is why I think there's a market for smaller, ~7" or so tablets. The smaller form factor without sacrificing power/usability means there's a better portability proposition relative to netbooks.) 

PBSnipes

BUT STEVE JOBS SAYS THERE'S NO FUTURE FOR 7" TABLETS!

[QUOTE="musicalmac"] PB, I usually agree with just about everything you say. Unfortunately here, you're way off base. I know a lot of people with tablets, and none of these perceptions are even close. There isn't hardly a nugget of truth in any of this. PBSnipes

Obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule and trying to break down a large number users into three (well, two and a joke) categories is going to involve some over-simplification, but at this point in time tablets are still limited enough that I'd say it's a pretty fair generalization.

They're great devices, but beyond the niche of "I need something bigger than a phone, but smaller than a netbook" they're priced in such a way that they're purely luxury items relative to smartphones and netbooks. Any decent smartphone is going to have your app needs covered, and if you need something bigger an AMD Brazos-based netbook will get you a proper computing experience for significantly less cash and without sacrificing much in the way of portability. As-is tablets are just too limited/expensive to recommend for most users.

BUT STEVE JOBS SAYS THERE'S NO FUTURE FOR 7" TABLETS!

Guppy507

Appeal to inappropriate authority.

Basically, "My anecdotal evidence is better than yours!" Why? "Because it is!"

The_Game21x

Two things:

Where did you even learn about this in the first place? It's a mess of hypocritical nonsense running around in circles. A little common sense goes a long way, that's all you need to know about all that junk.

Well, I've never seen anyone fit remotely close to either of the categories you listed (not even that Apple category :P). Most people I know live between the two, as I perceive the people who write reviews for tablets or write for tech blogs, etc. I think it's too hard to generalize such a new category of product. musicalmac

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying these are strict, everyone-either-uses-their-iPad-for-Pages-or-Angry-Birds-no-exceptions type categories, but that there's a group that fundamentally uses their tablet for productivity, and another where they fundamentally see it as an entertainment device (no different than someone who buys a laptop for working on the go and someone who buys a laptop so they can browse Facebook while watching Next Top Model).

The importance of this being (in terms of Fabz's original question) that for one group there's a definite "this product has a unique purpose and is therefore a worthwhile investment", while for the other it's much less of a need and more of a "I have $500+ to blow and think playing Pirates! with a big touchscreen is pretty damn cool". As-is there just isn't that much on the entertainment side of things to make tablets as worthwhile to that market.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying these are strict, everyone-either-uses-their-iPad-for-Pages-or-Angry-Birds-no-exceptions type categories, but that there's a group that fundamentally uses their tablet for productivity, and another where they fundamentally see it as an entertainment device (no different than someone who buys a laptop for working on the go and someone who buys a laptop so they can browse Facebook while watching Next Top Model).

The importance of this being (in terms of Fabz's original question) that for one group there's a definite "this product has a unique purpose and is therefore a worthwhile investment", while for the other it's much less of a need and more of a "I have $500+ to blow and think playing Pirates! with a big touchscreen is pretty damn cool". As-is there just isn't that much on the entertainment side of things to make tablets as worthwhile to that market.

PBSnipes

I find this point of view very interesting and unique. There have been a fair share of "Tablets are wonderful luxury devices, but they're not the production tools I hoped they'd be" but none trumpeting the other way. I would be lying if I told you I didn't think the iPad was a luxury device, because it most certainly is not a necessity. Then again, basing anything on being a necessity and you're going to open up a whole can of worms.

Do we need iPods when there are still portable CD players? It's the convenience that wins the day for the iPod. The same can be said of the iPad.

I can't agree that there isn't enough entertainment value in an iPad to warrant a purchase to someone who isn't going to be using it as a tool for some other specific purpose (I cannot say the same for non-iPad tablets). I also think you may have a hard time convincing other people, especially considering how iPad sales took off since it launched.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Appeal to inappropriate authority.

Basically, "My anecdotal evidence is better than yours!" Why? "Because it is!"

musicalmac

Two things:

Where did you even learn about this in the first place? It's a mess of hypocritical nonsense running around in circles. A little common sense goes a long way, that's all you need to know about all that junk.

Then tell me, what makes your anecdotal evidence on the subject of tablet demogaphics so much better than PBSnipes' evidence tot he point that you'd say it was "way off base. I know a lot of people with tablets, and none of these perceptions are even close. There isn't hardly (nice double negative, by the way) a nugget of truth in any of this"

And that last bit was thoroughly unnecessary and needlessly condescending. Oh wait...I guess that was the point. :roll:

I find this point of view very interesting and unique. There have been a fair share of "Tablets are wonderful luxury devices, but they're not the production tools I hoped they'd be" but none trumpeting the other way. I would be lying if I told you I didn't think the iPad was a luxury device, because it most certainly is not a necessity. Then again, basing anything on being a necessity and you're going to open up a whole can of worms.

Do we need iPods when there are still portable CD players? It's the convenience that wins the day for the iPod. The same can be said of the iPad.

I can't agree that there isn't enough entertainment value in an iPad to warrant a purchase to someone who isn't going to be using it as a tool for some other specific purpose (I cannot say the same for non-iPad tablets). I also think you may have a hard time convincing other people, especially considering how iPad sales took off since it launched.

musicalmac

Maybe I'm just more tech savvy than the average iPad user. :P

For portable computing, I have a smartphone (Nexus S) and an AMD Brazos netbook (11.6" HP dm1). For short-term use (ie commuting to work, checking email/RSS feeds/social networking) the Nexus S is plenty: the screen is good enough for both videos and reading, there's a decent selection of games, and it has all your usual app suspects plus some really neat Google stuff. Plus it's pocket sized, so it's always with me.

For longer use, the dm1 has a decent sized, realatively high-res (1366x768 ) screen; one of the better keyboards in the business for its form-factor; a 640GB HDD for storing my entire movie and music collections; gets 7+ hours real-world battery; and is powerful enough to run older games and even newer indie stuff. Plus it runs $50 cheaper than the bargain-basement iPad.

So there really isn't a hell of a lot of room for an iPad to carve out a niche for itself: either my phone is good/good enough, or I'm going to have a proper computer with all its advantages over a tablet (and it's not like the iPad even has a significant portability advantage, as it would just be thrown in the same messenger bag I use for my laptop). The only exception is on-the-go productivity: if I had work to do while commuting or wanted to take digital notes in a meeting, my phone would be too small and my laptop too cumbersome to be worth taking.

So -- and this is the point I've been trying to make -- it's simply a question of value: so long as you have a decent smartphone (and everyone and their dog should have a decent smartphone before they consider a tablet), how are you going to get your $500+ worth out of an iPad, and would that money be better spent elsewhere? As great a product as the iPad can be, unless you're in your productivity sweet-spot I'd argue you're better off investing in a netbook and moving to a tablet once the form-factor has had time to mature.

Beats and Bose headphones are also extremely popular, despite being significantly comically compared to the competition. The fact people don't know they can get better value elsewhere isn't a ringing endorsement. :P

Maybe I'm just more tech savvy than the average iPad user. :P

For portable computing, I have a smartphone (Nexus S) and an AMD Brazos netbook (11.6" HP dm1). For short-term use (ie commuting to work, checking email/RSS feeds/social networking) the Nexus S is plenty: the screen is good enough for both videos and reading, there's a decent selection of games, and it has all your usual app suspects plus some really neat Google stuff. Plus it's pocket sized, so it's always with me.

For longer use, the dm1 has a decent sized, realatively high-res (1366x768 ) screen; one of the better keyboards in the business for its form-factor; a 640GB HDD for storing my entire movie and music collections; gets 7+ hours real-world battery; and is powerful enough to run older games and even newer indie stuff. Plus it runs $50 cheaper than the bargain-basement iPad.

So there really isn't a hell of a lot of room for an iPad to carve out a niche for itself: either my phone is good/good enough, or I'm going to have a proper computer with all its advantages over a tablet (and it's not like the iPad even has a significant portability advantage, as it would just be thrown in the same messenger bag I use for my laptop). The only exception is on-the-go productivity: if I had work to do while commuting or wanted to take digital notes in a meeting, my phone would be too small and my laptop too cumbersome to be worth taking.

So -- and this is the point I've been trying to make -- it's simply a question of value: so long as you have a decent smartphone (and everyone and their dog should have a decent smartphone before they consider a tablet), how are you going to get your $500+ worth out of an iPad, and would that money be better spent elsewhere? As great a product as the iPad can be, unless you're in your productivity sweet-spot I'd argue you're better off investing in a netbook and moving to a tablet once the form-factor has had time to mature.

Beats and Bose headphones are also extremely popular, despite being significantly comically compared to the competition. The fact people don't know they can get better value elsewhere isn't a ringing endorsement. :P

PBSnipes

No need for an iPad and a netbook. To each their own, there's nothing wrong with that. No one product is going to be right for everybody.

I can say without question that the iPad was a worthy investment for me. But that is me, so again -- to each his own. Can't argue that.

Then tell me, what makes your anecdotal evidence on the subject of tablet demogaphics so much better than PBSnipes' evidence tot he point that you'd say it was "way off base. I know a lot of people with tablets, and none of these perceptions are even close. There isn't hardly (nice double negative, by the way) a nugget of truth in any of this"

And that last bit was thoroughly unnecessary and needlessly condescending. Oh wait...I guess that was the point. :roll:

The_Game21x

You're missing the point. And the last bit wasn't condescending, that was some genuinely good advice. Read it as if somebody else wrote it, and you won't have that knee-jerk reaction we all just saw in the post I quoted above.

That's good advice, too.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

Pretty sure this is a fallacy of some kind......

The_Game21x

Appeal to inappropriate authority.

Basically, "My anecdotal evidence is better than yours!" Why? "Because it is!"

[QUOTE="Guppy507"]

To be fair, that was the first gen tablet, and it was a really ****ty tablet.  It did absolutely nothing to distinguish itself from a smart phone.  It even had a smart phone OS.  The new ones look pretty impressive, if you're into the whole tablet thing.

musicalmac

The way it works won't impress you. We got one at work so we could test the website on it and other mobile devices (Galaxy Tab 10.1). The hardware feels fantastic, but the screen isn't going to blow you away. The real problem is the software. Apps crash frequently, only one web browser works properly (Firefox Beta), and even then the scrolling is choppy. The unit even gets hot after minor use (more than 10 minutes).

The guy who wanted it instead of an iPad is regretting his decision. He has it updated to the latest everything (latest version of honeycomb), and it still doesn't work very well. It's a pretty disappointing product.

I have Xoom and the native browser works just fine, I don't know what are you talking about mac?

if you have some kind of test for the browser just post what should I do to see if it's really crappy like you are saying or not. 

And Opera  is way better than Firefox beta, try Opera out.  

Lenovo: Samsung Galaxy Tab Sales 20K, not 2 Million. Why do they even try? :?musicalmac

I don't believe that, so they ship 2M units and they only sell around 20K WORLDWIDE.

US sales alone could be more than 20K, let alone the rest of the world.

I have Xoom and the native browser works just fine, I don't know what are you talking about mac?

if you have some kind of test for the browser just post what should I do to see if it's really crappy like you are saying or not. 

And Opera  is way better than Firefox beta, try Opera out.  

HAZE-Unit

I don't believe that, so they ship 2M units and they only sell around 20K WORLDWIDE.

US sales alone could be more than 20K, let alone the rest of the world.

 

HAZE-Unit

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

I have Xoom and the native browser works just fine, I don't know what are you talking about mac?

if you have some kind of test for the browser just post what should I do to see if it's really crappy like you are saying or not. 

And Opera  is way better than Firefox beta, try Opera out.  

musicalmac

I don't believe that, so they ship 2M units and they only sell around 20K WORLDWIDE.

US sales alone could be more than 20K, let alone the rest of the world.

 

HAZE-Unit

Hmmm..might be his tablet then  that doesn't work properly because I remember my friend who brought me the Xoom saying to me to wait for other tablets since the Xoom was buggy and clunky in the store but I said forget it cuz you know the tablets in the showroom are not as good as new and I was right, the Xoom I got was/is excellent, maybe your friend got it used or he is messing alot with firmwares.

As for the sales figures I agree with you, Apple had a major headstart not only in time but in technology so they know what they are doing with their products that's why they are selling like crazy, I don't expect the Android based tablets to pick up pace anytime soon but I was shocked at the Lenovo figure it didn't make any sense.

Hmmm..might be his tablet then  that doesn't work properly because I remember my friend who brought me the Xoom saying to me to wait for other tablets since the Xoom was buggy and clunky in the store but I said forget it cuz you know the tablets in the showroom are not as good as new and I was right, the Xoom I got was/is excellent, maybe your friend got it used or he is messing alot with firmwares.

As for the sales figures I agree with you, Apple had a major headstart not only in time but in technology so they know what they are doing with their products that's why they are selling like crazy, I don't expect the Android based tablets to pick up pace anytime soon but I was shocked at the Lenovo figure it didn't make any sense.

HAZE-Unit

Lots my previous post, GS crapped out on me. Phooey.

He's a wed developer who writes programs in HTML5, and for Windows. He's about as computer savvy as they come, and his Galaxy Tab 10.1 is fully upgraded. Just doesn't work very well, not like he expected. Perhaps there is another issue. Lets hope, at least.

The sales weren't to be taken literally, which wasn't clear to some people. The fact is even if they had sold 10 times the number cited, they would have only moved 1/10th of the produced units. That's a pretty poor return -- hence my question, why even bother?

Apple wins in Germany. Galaxy 10.1 tablet sales are permabanned. Did not expect this at all. Must be more to Apple's case than meets the eye.musicalmac

[QUOTE="HAZE-Unit"]

I have Xoom and the native browser works just fine, I don't know what are you talking about mac?

if you have some kind of test for the browser just post what should I do to see if it's really crappy like you are saying or not. 

And Opera  is way better than Firefox beta, try Opera out.  

musicalmac

Well, that sounds like an isolated problem, because the Gingerbread browser is really good.  It's much closer to a desktop web-browsing experience than a mobile browser like the iPad.  In my experience, the only thing better about the iPad's browser is that pinch to zoom looks smoother.

Today in c-(I can't believe this error is back)-lassy Apple news...PBSnipes

Wow, yet another iPhone prototype left behind. And again, at a bar. 

We all know Apple does this on purpose.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]Today in c-(I can't believe this error is back)-lassy Apple news...789shadow

Wow, yet another iPhone prototype left behind. And again, at a bar. 

We all know Apple does this on purpose.

Makes sense. That's some damn good viral marketing.