OT: Official 2008-2009 NBA Season

Still think its a little weird thats he's not working out... even though he's in Sac-Town already

Rubio interview in Sacramento, talking about his game and the Kings

TBT might find this interesting, Ben Woodside sighting in Sacramento:P: Ben Woodside working out with the Kings. I think Patrick Mills would be a great second round choice for the Kings though, he was amazing in the Olympics.

i knew you would say that. truth is sg's are a dime a dozen and most of the league has one better than martin.rubbersouI

Besides, the trade is impossible because K-mart is making 10 million this year. no team is looking to take on that money without giving out some as well. 

okc can they're way under the cap and if they picked rubio they'd have to pay $6 mil to his euro team. rubio has a few years before he becomes a star (if he does) but the potential is worth the gamble you need a superstar on your team if you want to win a title.rubbersouI

PG: Rubio/Beno
SG: K-Mart/Garcia
SF: Nocioni/Garcia/Greene
PF: Jason Thompson/23rd overall pick/Kenny 'whyishestillontheteam' Thomas
C: Spencer Hawes/23rd overall pick

Nocioni and Thomas are wastes, but they both expire in 2011 I believe. 

http://realtalkny.uproxx.com/2009/06/topic/topic/videos/the-final-kobe-lebron-puppet-commercial-for-the-season/

Funny commercial. Its the last one.

Minnesta held a workout with Tyreke Evans, Johnny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holiday, and Jeff Teague

Looks like the guy came away most impressed with Tyreke Evans and Brandon Jennings.

"I'm not comfortable saying Jennings should be the player Minnesota takes sixth, especially if Evans is available (I'm seriously impressed). But I can't think of a player in the draft with more upside than Brandon Jennings."

short summary...

-Flynn and Lawson looked most fundamentally sound. Said if he had to pick one he'd go with Flynn because of his athleticism and defense.

-Tyreke Evans dominated the 1-on-1 drills due to his size/strength/ball handling combination

-Jrue Holiday struggled with offensive drills and the guy wondered how he's even mentioned as a top 5 pick.

-Jeff Teague has the purest jumpshot which isn't a suprise

-Brandon Jennings struggled until they played full court 3-on-3, where he looked amazing. Said his footspeed was on another planet.

you really can't go wrong with either Jennings or Evans. If I was Minnesota though i'd take Jennings simply because he seems more like a pure PG.  He has the athleticism, passing, scoring, defense.  He also looks like he has the biggest upside out of all the PG's

i knew you would say that. truth is sg's are a dime a dozen and most of the league has one better than martin.rubbersouI

this is so wrong it's unbelievable

the past three years he has averaged  22.8 points on 14.7 shot attempts. name the players who are more efficient at putting the ball in the hoop. the list will be short.

as far as the draft goes...

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-090618

if it ain't ty lawson it's done

 So proud of the Lakers:) Champions again8)

I know I'm late but I was suspended so.....

[QUOTE="rubbersouI"]i knew you would say that. truth is sg's are a dime a dozen and most of the league has one better than martin.KamMoye

this is so wrong it's unbelievable

the past three years he has averaged  22.8 points on 14.7 shot attempts. name the players who are more efficient at putting the ball in the hoop. the list will be short.

Scaramento Kings workout with Tyreke Evans, Johnny Flynn, Stephen Curry, Toney Douglas, Nick Calathes, and Patrick Mills

playing 3 on 3 (part 1)

playing 3 on 3 (part 2)

Evans, Flynn, and Curry are being looked at with the #4. The rest are being looked at with the late 1st rounder and 2nd rounder.

Curry's shooting alone will make him a contributor in the NBA but I still doubt his ability to play PG. Davidson experimented with him at PG last year and it didn't make a believer out of me. There's no doubt he can put the ball in the hole, he's just a natural SG who is kind of undersized.

Calathes, one of my Gator dudes, has the best court vision/passing ability of anyone in the draft, and he's a legit 6'5 PG. But he has some pretty glaring weaknesses like his lack of athleticism, questionable speed, and his 3pter is a set shot that takes forever to get off. His ballhandling is great and even with his lack of speed he finds ways to get to the hole and is a crafty finisher. He will prolly be a late 1st rounder (pick 20 onward).

Patrick Mills most people remember from the the Olympics. Lightning fast and a scorer. In the Olympics no one had an answer for his speed and he was blowing by Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Kings should look at him with their 2nd rounder but I wouldn't pick him the 1st. His shooting percentages are a little low...

Toney Douglas I saw a lot since he's at FSU and I remember him torching the Gators lol. Like Mills, he's an undersized SG in a PG's body. He's not as quick/fast as Mills but he's a better shooter and just as good a scorer.

I think Jennings is the best fit for the Golden State system, but I dunno if you guys are gonna try and get some front court depth instead or focus on defense.

You guys like to play small ball, get a ton of points in transition, and Don Nelson allows for a lot of freedom and will tolerate some bad shots.... so from an offensive standpoint I don't see how anyone else fits with you guys better than Jennings. The way people have been talking about him lately makes me think he's definitely gonna be there for your pick.

Scaramento Kings workout with Tyreke Evans, Johnny Flynn, Stephen Curry, Toney Douglas, Nick Calathes, and Patrick Mills

playing 3 on 3 (part 1)

playing 3 on 3 (part 2)

Evans, Flynn, and Curry are being looked at with the #4. The rest are being looked at with the late 1st rounder and 2nd rounder.

Curry's shooting alone will make him a contributor in the NBA but I still doubt his ability to play PG. Davidson experimented with him at PG last year and it didn't make a believer out of me. There's no doubt he can put the ball in the hole, he's just a natural SG who is kind of undersized.

Calathes, one of my Gator dudes, has the best court vision/passing ability of anyone in the draft, and he's a legit 6'5 PG. But he has some pretty glaring weaknesses like his lack of athleticism, questionable speed, and his 3pter is a set shot that takes forever to get off. His ballhandling is great and even with his lack of speed he finds ways to get to the hole and is a crafty finisher. He will prolly be a late 1st rounder (pick 20 onward).

Patrick Mills most people remember from the the Olympics. Lightning fast and a scorer. In the Olympics no one had an answer for his speed and he was blowing by Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Kings should look at him with their 2nd rounder but I wouldn't pick him the 1st. His shooting percentages are a little low...

Toney Douglas I saw a lot since he's at FSU and I remember him torching the Gators lol. Like Mills, he's an undersized SG in a PG's body. He's not as quick/fast as Mills but he's a better shooter and just as good a scorer.

 

Orlando_Magic

It is nice to see them working out 6 PG's though. lol, good looks on keeping me posted with all of this draft news Orlando...'cause god knows I wouldn't have known, or looked up any of this **** on my own. Just would have waited 'till the 25th when the picks are made, and asked everyone in here about the guys.

I don't think shaq would be the smartest person to trade into the Cavs. He can still play IMO (that last game before the playoffs, he put on quite a show), but the Cavs lag behind LeBron sometimes, and he wouldn't be able to keep up with him at all. It would be ideal for them to trade in people with athletic value.

Still, Shaq could be good for them. LeBron can make mediocre players play like champs, so he could probably bring Shaq back to playing at like 3/4 of how he played with the Lakers. Shaq could very well earn another ring if he got himself back in shape and played strong ALL the time (with a good team of course - Cavs.. or if he stayed put, MAYBE. him and Nash are both still very talented and have some players with good potential... if they developed them and upped their own game, they could be easy contenders for rings imo)... whenever I watch him, it's like he turns it on and off. He'll get the dish and just plain slam that ish, and then just stand there like he wants a 3 second violation and not do anything :?. Maybe I just have too much faith in the dude. But really, how can you blame a nukka? He was hands down the best player in the NBA for a few seasons (I would have slapped someone if he hadn't gotten the MVPs then), and just played so damn well. Then he managed to help cruise DW to a ring, just being sent to Miami. And now he's just... slow and meh. I just find it hard to believe that he can't bring his old game back and be a problem again.

Anyway... what do you guys think about Odom and Ariza? I personally think Ariza is coming back for sure... but I dunno about Odom. If we get both back, I think we have the trophy next year for sure, unless Boston stays steady. We don't really need Odom, but he's a damn good player and gives us alot of versatility (he can pop 3s well, post up like a big man, and take it to the basket under pressure - he has a sexy ass drive :oops: ). It would be sad to see him go :(

I place a higher emphasis on Odom than Ariza, but I don't want to lose either. Both of them are 2 of my favorite players and we wouldn't have done it without them. So far it sounds like we're gonna try our damndest to get them both, so I have my fingers crossed. If we get them locked up and get a PG in the draft we'll be the favorites again next season.-Halftime-

Honestly, I think we're set for a looong time if we keep our current team. Kobe, Ariza, Fisher, Gasol and Odom could all pass and we would still have Farmar, Sasha, Brown, Bynum, and Walton (UGH). Our bench is good enough for us to afford losing either Ariza or Odom, but it would mos def be best for us to keep them. I think we could even recover from losing both. Brown has proven that he can play, and Sasha has serious potential, so their spots could be filled with a little work on those two.

Fisher is most likely gonna be going in a while too, but Farmar can fill that spot if he learns to be a more effective passer. He can drive his ass off but just can't move the ball around like Fisher.

We really don't need anyone in the draft this year... our bench is the best in the NBA and has some very promising players. It would be nice to drop Walton off this year, and they should probably put out that Chinese dude (Yue Sin?) in some easy games (Washington, Kings, whoever..) to see if he can actually do something for the team. It would be nice to know if he's a Walton or a Sasha/Shannon...

But I guess it would be nice to get a good guard in there. Maybe even an effective forward would be nice... Walton sucks and NEVER gets play time, and the other two bench forwards have potential but I don't see a lot coming from them. Maybe Morrison will change my mind on that, since he has just entered the leauge, but I'm pretty firm on what I think of Powell... he just doens't seem like anything special.

Our bench is good enough for us to afford losing either Ariza or Odom, but it would mos def be best for us to keep them. I think we could even recover from losing both. Brown has proven that he can play, and Sasha has serious potential, so their spots could be filled with a little work on those two.

elpooz

lol at thinking Shannon Brown (PG/SG) and Vujacic (SG) are even close to suitable replacements for Ariza (SF) and Odom (SF/PF). If Ariza and Odom are gone that makes Walton your starting SF and say goodbye to frontcourt depth...

man elpooz you're crazy if you think we'd be fine without Odom and Ariza.  You should be on that show Kids Say The Darndest Things :lol: We'd be ok without Ariza, but not Odom.  He was the only guy off the bench that was producing (besides the Houston, Denver series where he disappeared).  The only thing Lakers should be worrying about is the PG position. Fisher has had a good run but he's pretty much done as much as I hate to say it.  Shannon Brown really surprised me these playoffs, he shot well, and he plays solid defense when he got in. He's not a pure PG but we don't really need one in the Lakers offense. 

also, Sasha Vujacic's playoff averages

3 PPG 26 FG % .314 3 point FG %  :?

[QUOTE="elpooz"]

Our bench is good enough for us to afford losing either Ariza or Odom, but it would mos def be best for us to keep them. I think we could even recover from losing both. Brown has proven that he can play, and Sasha has serious potential, so their spots could be filled with a little work on those two.

Orlando_Magic

lol at thinking Shannon Brown (PG/SG) and Vujacic (SG) are even close to suitable replacements for Ariza (SF) and Odom (SF/PF). If Ariza and Odom are gone that makes Walton your starting SF and say goodbye to frontcourt depth...

Did you not see the part about working on them? We could very well be ok without those two, if other players were given more time and developed. I'm not saying we would come back and grab another trophy, but we could make the playoffs without them, if Sasha and Brown played well enough for Kobe to be able to go down to 3. Brown/Fisher/Farmar (PG), Sasha/Brown (SG), Kobe (SF), Gasol (F), Bynum (C), would be a pretty functional lineup. Not as good, but we would still be alright. Kobe wouldn't have trouble playing a little bigger... he is better at posting up than Odom anyway. I wasn't suggesting that either of them play F or SF (lol)... Sasha might be able to do SF though... probably not well, but he could be decent there maybe.

man elpooz you're crazy if you think we'd be fine without Odom and Ariza. You should be on that show Kids Say The Darndest Things :lol: We'd be ok without Ariza, but not Odom. He was the only guy off the bench that was producing (besides the Houston, Denver series where he disappeared). The only thing Lakers should be worrying about is the PG position. Fisher has had a good run but he's pretty much done as much as I hate to say it. Shannon Brown really surprised me these playoffs, he shot well, and he plays solid defense when he got in. He's not a pure PG but we don't really need one in the Lakers offense.

also, Sasha Vujacic's playoff averages

3 PPG 26 FG % .314 3 point FG % :?

andyboiii

We would be fine. We wouldn't be the best anymore, but we would be able to function and still play well. Saying those two make the team deserves a huge SMH, considering that Kobe, Gasol, Fisher, and Bynum would still all be there. Kobe is... Kobe... Gasol is playing amazingly (rebounds and points are racking up well), Fisher works the ball around verrry well, even if he is getting old and not putting many points in, and Bynum is getting better each season. Then we have potential dudes like Brown, Sasha, and possibly the Chinese dude.

Bringing up his averages is kinda pointless because he didn't get much time... If he got more time, he could very well put in 10 points a game, and rack up some assists.

Without Odom, the Lakers would not have won or gotten to the Finals...IamHush

No, without Kobe or Pau, they wouldn't have. Without Odom, they would have adjusted and Kobe + Gasol + Ariza + Brown/Fisher/Farmar would bring in more points. Bynum... well he would have probably kept playing under his level like he had been for most of the playoffs.

Without Odom, the Lakers would not have won or gotten to the Finals...IamHush

And the same goes with Ariza as well. Take away both and the Lakers could possibly be sitting home watching the conference finals. I don't know why elpooz is so adamant about proving how little Ariza and Odom mean to the Lakers while pretending that Vujacic is a good player. A healthy Trevor Ariza was the x-factor on the Laker team this year that made them better than last year. People thought it would've been Andrew Bynum but he had a very mediocre postseason.

also, Sasha Vujacic's playoff averages

3 PPG 26 FG % .314 3 point FG %  :?

andyboiii

Not to mention his 0-6 shooting and 0 points in the finals. Couldn't even hit a wide open jumper to save his life and that's his calling.

Did you not see the part about working on them? We could very well be ok without those two, if other players were given more time and developed. I'm not saying we would come back and grab another trophy, but we could make the playoffs without them, if Sasha and Brown played well enough for Kobe to be able to go down to 3. Brown/Fisher/Farmar (PG), Sasha/Brown (SG), Kobe (SF), Gasol (F), Bynum (C), would be a pretty functional lineup. Not as good, but we would still be alright. Kobe wouldn't have trouble playing a little bigger... he is better at posting up than Odom anyway. I wasn't suggesting that either of them play F or SF (lol)... Sasha might be able to do SF though... probably not well, but he could be decent there maybe.

elpooz

I saw every part you wrote and thought it was joke. lol at asking me if I didn't see a part. lol at starting Kobe as SF. and lol at starting Vujacic, a defensive liability, and acting like he can replace Ariza, a defensive stud who very well may be better than Vujacic at draining in-game open looks from downtown. Ariza did shoot 48% on 3's this postseason while Vujacic was only at 31%...

Now when you guys play the Nuggets, Vujacic gets lit up for 30 points by JR Smith on a nightly basis and Kobe has to work much more on defense trying to guard Melo downlow where Melo has a definite advantage. Now when Pau or Odom get in foul trouble, your first man off the bench to replace either of them is Josh Powell because you just lost all your frontcourt depth. Have fun with that, I'm sure Kmart and Nene will.

I never said we would beat teams as good as the Nuggets. I said we would be OK without those two, not a team that could take down the Nuggets or a team of their level. So... I really don't know why you pulled out that example. All I said was that the Lakers would still be an alright team without those two :?, which they would be... Any team with Kobe, Pau, Fisher, and Farmar would be an ok team, especially with Phil Jackson as a coach. And we would still have some potential players and Bynum, who has been getting better.

I'm not underminding either Odom or Ariza. I think they have done great things for my team, I just don't think that we would go crashing down without them. 

I never said we would beat teams as good as the Nuggets. I said we would be OK without those two, not a team that could take down the Nuggets or a team of their level. So... I really don't know why you pulled out that example.

elpooz

Who did the Lakers play in the Conference Finals again? Oh yeah, it was the Nuggets.... meaning the Lakers wouldn't make the Finals without Ariza and Odom. Without Ariza or Odom alone the Lakers most likey don't beat the Nuggets and make the Finals. You just told IamHush that the Lakers would still make the Finals without Odom a couple posts back...

And lol at throwing around the words "alright," "fine," and "ok" when talking about a team going from a championship winner to a team that might not even get out the 2nd round.

[QUOTE="elpooz"]

I never said we would beat teams as good as the Nuggets. I said we would be OK without those two, not a team that could take down the Nuggets or a team of their level. So... I really don't know why you pulled out that example.

Orlando_Magic

Who did the Lakers play in the Conference Finals again? Oh yeah, it was the Nuggets.... meaning the Lakers wouldn't make the Finals without Ariza and Odom. Without Ariza or Odom alone the Lakers most likey don't beat the Nuggets and make the Finals. You said earlier the Lakers would be "fine" without both of them but obviously that isn't the case if you don't think they can beat the Nuggets without them. "Fine" means playing at the same level with little/no problems and still winning the championship, not dropping off and only getting to the 2nd round.

So now you're defining what my words mean :|? Yeah, OK ;). 

When I said fine, I meant still being a pretty good team and managing to get a good W-L ratio and possibly make the playoffs.

I never said that we would have beat the Nuggets without them, just that we would be an OK (FINE) team without them in the next season, or seasons to come. 

So now you're defining what my words mean :|? Yeah, OK ;). 

When I said fine, I meant still being a pretty good team and managing to get a good W-L ratio and possibly make the playoffs.

I never said that we would have beat the Nuggets without them, just that we would be an OK (FINE) team without them in the next season, or seasons to come. 

elpooz

Going from a championship winning team to a team that "possibly makes the playoffs" is hardly "fine," "ok," "alright" or any other word you want to try and use :| That's what you consider a flop, and it also shows you how valuable Ariza and Odom are :|

[QUOTE="elpooz"]

So now you're defining what my words mean :|? Yeah, OK ;). 

When I said fine, I meant still being a pretty good team and managing to get a good W-L ratio and possibly make the playoffs.

I never said that we would have beat the Nuggets without them, just that we would be an OK (FINE) team without them in the next season, or seasons to come. 

Orlando_Magic

Going from a championship winning team to a team that "possibly makes the playoffs" is hardly "fine," "ok," "alright" or any other word you want to try and use :| That's what you consider a flop, and it also shows you how valuable Ariza and Odom are :|

When you look at what they have done, then yeah they have flopped. But at the end of the day, looking at the W-L ratio, if it's ok, then the team is obviously an ok team. Whether or not they were the previous champs, them having a decent W-L ratio = them being a decent team. So they would be OK.....

And we could make the finals without Odom. I can't tell the future, maybe we'll get lucky as hell again and LeBron will be out for a long ass time, like KG was. Maybe a new player will shine like Ariza did this season. We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league.  You don't know what is going to happen next season, so saying we absolutely wouldn't win without Odom is an empty statement. I'm not saying we absolutely will, just that we can. IMO, any team with Gasol, Kobe, and Fisher and good players surrounding the three (which the Lakers have... Ariza, Bynum, Brown, Farmar, potentially the rest of the bench...) has a shot at the title. Look at the Cavs, LeBron has mostly just good or average players, but he took them far as hell.

When you look at what they have done, then yeah they have flopped. But at the end of the day, looking at the W-L ratio, if it's ok, then the team is obviously an ok team. Whether or not they were the previous champs, them having a decent W-L ratio = them being a decent team. So they would be OK.....

And we could make the finals without Odom. I can't tell the future, maybe we'll get lucky as hell again and LeBron will be out for a long ass time, like KG was. Maybe a new player will shine like Ariza did this season. We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league.  You don't know what is going to happen next season, so saying we absolutely wouldn't win without Odom is an empty statement. I'm not saying we absolutely will, just that we can. IMO, any team with Gasol, Kobe, and Fisher and good players surrounding the three (which the Lakers have... Ariza, Bynum, Brown, Farmar, potentially the rest of the bench...) has a shot at the title. Look at the Cavs, LeBron has mostly just good or average players, but he took them far as hell.

elpooz

You were the person complaining earlier in this thread about all those tough years the Lakers had in between championships... years where you above .500 and not getting out of the first round. Were those years "ok" because you're making it seem like they would be next year.

And I never said that Ariza and Odom were not valuable :lol:. just that we wouldn't be in the bottom half of the league without them...elpooz

No one in this thread said the Lakers would be in the bottom half of the league. Everyone is saying the Lakers wouldn't win a Championship though. If that's what you consider "fine" then go ahead feel that way, but for just about every other Laker fan out there that means Sasha Vujacic and Shannon Brown are obviously not adequate replacements for Lamar Odom and Trevor Ariza.

"We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league."

Who is this player by the way:lol: It better not be Sun Yue because everyone in America saw him play when China played USA in the Olympics.

We were an ok team during our drought, but it was just disappointing because it came after a 3peat. In this case it would be after 1 title, which isn't as bad, and something no real Laker fan would let lead them to saying their team was anything less than ok.

And as a fan of the team, I'm going to root for whoever replaced the two. That's how you support them... not by being like "Oh damn.. Sasha and Brown won't ever be as good as Odom and Ariza... we're ****ed"... It's just a matter of sucking up when **** comes our way and being ready to stand behind whatever lineup is put out there. And who knows, they could develop into good enough replacements. Just as Farmar could become the new Fisher of the Lakers.

"We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league."

Who is this player by the way:lol: It better not be Sun Yue because everyone in America saw him play when China played USA in the Olympics.

Orlando_Magic

But have we seen him play over and over again? Numerous games in the NBA? With good time blocks? No. Plus, the dude is young. His future is a straight up mystery... 

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"]

"We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league."

Who is this player by the way:lol: It better not be Sun Yue because everyone in America saw him play when China played USA in the Olympics.

elpooz

But have we seen him play over and over again? Numerous games in the NBA? With good time blocks? No. Plus, the dude is young. His future is a straight up mystery... 

If you want to spend your days thinking Sun Yue will be the next Kobe Bryant then go ahead:lol: I'm not stopping you:lol:

[QUOTE="elpooz"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"]

"We have a dude who basically no one has seen really play, so who knows, maybe he will end up being the next Kobe of the league."

Who is this player by the way:lol: It better not be Sun Yue because everyone in America saw him play when China played USA in the Olympics.

Orlando_Magic

But have we seen him play over and over again? Numerous games in the NBA? With good time blocks? No. Plus, the dude is young. His future is a straight up mystery...

If you want to spend your days thinking Sun Yue will be the next Kobe Bryant then go ahead:lol: I'm not stopping you:lol:

lmao

Richard Jefferson was just traded to the Spurs for Oberto, Bowen, and Kurt Thomas. Nice pickup for the Spurs. Bowen isn't nearly the player he used to be so its a nice upgrade and gives them more offensive firepower.Orlando_Magic

damn.. Im not a big fan of Jefferson or San Antonio tho.. They're also talkin bout Boston trading Ray Allen AND Rajon Rondo to Detroit or Washington for a draft pick.. I dont see this happening..

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"]Richard Jefferson was just traded to the Spurs for Oberto, Bowen, and Kurt Thomas. Nice pickup for the Spurs. Bowen isn't nearly the player he used to be so its a nice upgrade and gives them more offensive firepower.tmac200913

damn.. Im not a big fan of Jefferson or San Antonio tho.. They're also talkin bout Boston trading Ray Allen AND Rajon Rondo to Detroit or Washington for a draft pick.. I dont see this happening..

Kobe stated Bowen being his best defender in the NBA. I wonder who is going to be the next kobe stopper on that team now that he's out

certainly not ginobli  :lol:

anyways regarding the trade, I like it. Jefferson is legit, a lot of people think of him as a slasher but he's improved his shot since he's come in the league. This gives the Spurs 4 offensive threats, not sure how they can recover on defense though losing Kurt and Bowen

Bowen is pretty much useless now. I don't think most people even realize he's 38 years old now lol. Oberto and Thomas hurt them downlow but the Spurs did pickup Drew Gooden last year so it won't hurt as bad.

and some Philly news for Rob....

http://www.the700level.com/2009/06/sixers-officially-announce-a-return-to-the-old-classic-logo.html

76ers return to the cIassic logo 8)