2024 OT Election Day Thread: Donald Trump elected POTUS, GOP wins Senate and House of Representatives

Pinch of salt.

Also EU/US seem to be proposing alternate peace plans atm the same time.

Going to assume off hands Trumps will be absolutely abysmal, just the most insulting shit you've ever seen, outside of a mineral deal intended to scam an entire country.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/norway-rethinks-e1-7-trillion-sovereign-fund-to-boost-support-for-ukraine/

Norway rethinks €1.7 trillion sovereign fund to boost support for Ukraine

The Nordic country has so far spent €3.35 billion on aid to Ukraine, paling in comparison to its Nordic counterparts Denmark and Sweden.

Updates

This article has been updated.

Norway is considering tapping its sovereign wealth fund to dramatically increase its support for Ukraine amid signs that US military backing is waning.

Europe is in crisis mode after a bitter clash between Trump and Zelenskyy at the White House, and the Trump administration is reportedly considering cutting off all military supplies to Ukraine.

Norway is sitting on €1.7 trillion in the world's largest sovereign wealth fund, including an estimated €109 billion in war-related profits from increased gas prices in 2022 and 2023.

The Nordic country has so far spent €3.35 billion on support to Ukraine - an amount described on Thursday as "pathetic" and "reprehensible" by the editors of major Swedish and Danish newspapers, whose countries, according to the same data, have contributed €5.41 billion and €8.05 billion respectively.

"Norway is one of the few countries that has large amounts of money readily available, and we must therefore multiply our support for Ukraine immediately," Liberal Party leader Guri Melby said on Saturday.

Norway's support should be increased "significantly" and "fast", Norway's former Conservative prime minister, Erna Solberg, said in a statement. "The government can safely assume there is will in Parliament to give more," she added.

The Liberal Party and the Socialist Left Party called for an emergency parliamentary session, but Euractiv understands they are now waiting for the government's proposal instead.

Norway should spend 3% of GDP on defence, currently at around 2%, by 2030, Sylvi Listhaug, leader of the conservative Progress Party, Norway's second-largest in recent polls, said today.

The leader of the Greens, who are currently polling at 2.7%, reiterated their proposal that Norway should pledge €85.5 billion to Ukraine.

"Norway is among the largest donors to Ukraine. We have so far committed at least NOK 167 billion (€14.7 billion) in support until 2030," a foreign ministry spokesperson told Euractiv.

The long-term nature of the investments is appreciated by Ukraine and NATO allies, the spokesperson added. "For 2025, based on a cross-party agreement in Norway’s parliament, we have so far pledged and allocated 35 billion NOK."

"We will present a proposal to increase Ukraine support for parliament soon," said Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre, who will also attend tomorrow's meeting of European leaders in London.

Time to tap the bank?

Since 2001, Norway has carefully followed a budgetary rule of spending no more than 4% and then 3% of its sovereign wealth fund each year. The rule was introduced by Jens Stoltenberg's first cabinet with broad cross-party support. Known as a former NATO secretary general, Stoltenberg is now Norway's finance minister, just as the rule comes under scrutiny.

The idea of using the fund more actively to support Ukraine and European defence spending is gainingground in Norway.

One idea is to convert some €300 billion of the fund's €450 billion in liquid bonds into European defence bonds, on the condition that the money is used exclusively to build Europe's defence.

On Friday, Solberg said Norway must increase its use of "oil money" to improve the country's defence. High-ranking members of her party previously called for stricter rules on how the money can be spent.

"Peace is more important than shortsightedness and inflation," she said.

But Stoltenberg warned against tampering with the budget rule. "It is a dangerous idea to break the budgetary rule to give more money to Ukraine," he said on 7 February.

Numbers?

Even without breaking the rule, Norway has deep pockets.

"We currently have a proposal in the Storting to increase support by 100 billion Norwegian kroner this year," Sveinung Rotevatn, deputy chair and responsible for financial policy in the Liberal Party, told Euractiv.

For 2025, this would increase support for Ukraine from €3 billion to €11.5 billion.

Norway's Foreign Ministry declined to comment further on how much it wants to increase aid, referring instead to Støre's statement.

"It has become unequivocally clear that all of Europe must shift gears in our support and policy towards Ukraine and to ensure security in Europe," said Rotevatn.

"All other policies we pursue assume that we are a free and independent country and that we have a functioning international world order," said Minister of Foreign Affairs Espen Barth Eide.

Trump tariffs live updates: White House threatens even more tariffs on Canada as trade war escalates. MSNBC

This will surely reverse inflation concerns.🤭

@nod_eclipse_ said:

Oh, gee. What a shocker.

True definition of making a deal with the Devil.

Devil - See Zelensky, you did nothing wrong.

@davillain: I didn't know you had no idea what devil meant.🤭

Imagine posting a DailyMail article in 2025 with a straight face.

Here's the actual statement from Zelenskyy:

I would like to reiterate Ukraine’s commitment to peace.

None of us wants an endless war. Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring lasting peace closer. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians. My team and I stand ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.

We are ready to work fast to end the war, and the first stages could be the release of prisoners and truce in the sky — ban on missiles, long-ranged drones, bombs on energy and other civilian infrastructure — and truce in the sea immediately, if Russia will do the same. Then we want to move very fast through all next stages and to work with the US to agree a strong final deal.

We do really value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. And we remember the moment when things changed when President Trump provided Ukraine with Javelins. We are grateful for this.

Our meeting in Washington, at the White House on Friday, did not go the way it was supposed to be. It is regrettable that it happened this way. It is time to make things right. We would like future cooperation and communication to be constructive.

Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.

According to Fox News this wasn't confirmed.

Obv yea, it's Fox News.

On the other hand, Fox News is a Trump propaganda network.

Well that's the thing, most US citizens weren't trying to vote Trump, they were voting against the entire Democrats agenda for going into a different direction and Kamala Harris was just the final nail in the coffin. People were asking for change and Trump basically gave what the people ask for. Even Stephen A. Smith himself said it perfectly on how Trump won the election.

Edit: Even I wasn't gonna vote on Dems behalf because I didn't like what they were doing to the US, just too many crap that they didn't give me much of a choice but to vote for Trump. He ain't perfect, that's a fact but those were desperate times during the election 2024.

@Pedro: Neither did I😏

Don't worry, they going to get the change they voted for.😏

As for the bold, I honestly didn't know you were that dim. But, don't worry, folks like yourself will learn the hard way.😂

In unrelated news the Serbian parliament decided to throw smoke bombs at each other, which I think is normal.

https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1896894121643803050

@Pedro said:

The party of free speech.🤭

Do you support rioting or unlawful assemblies Pedro? Do you think someone who participates in an act while under a student visa should have their visa revoked? Do you also support expelling any students who participate/encourage any unlawful assemblies or rioting?

That is a fresh red herring you got there. When you toss that herring back in the water, give me a shout.🫡

How so? What is misleading about any of my questions, or which question does not properly address the context of your mean-tweet/truth.

Toss the red herring back in the water sir. Then, and only then can we have a genuine discussion.🫡

Again, how so? Elaborate. Is that challenging?

Trump has no business expelling anyone.

"Elaborate" == You want me to participate in your red herring argument. I am not interested. Toss the herring back into the water sir and we can have a discussion.🫡

Perhaps not be so blatantly obvious in your attempt at a strawman argument, Stevie. Man, for a MAGA troll who also somehow is a moderator, you’re not particularly good at “triggering the libs”, bud. 🥱

I'm asking you to elaborate why you think it's a red herring. Is that challenging?

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@Pedro said:

The party of free speech.🤭

Do you support rioting or unlawful assemblies Pedro? Do you think someone who participates in an act while under a student visa should have their visa revoked? Do you also support expelling any students who participate/encourage any unlawful assemblies or rioting?

Trump's post intentionally creates a chilling effect on free speech.

By threatening to end funding to institutes that 'allow' illegal protests, the obvious next step is that universities and colleges will be forced to cautiously police every protest that happens on their grounds. And you know they'll over-correct and stop some legal protests too, because the edict is ambiguous - for example, does a whole protest become illegal if it starts normal and then someone starts waving a "free Palestine, down with Trump" flag?

The veiled threat is the point of his post: make sure your message aligns with ours; make sure your students aren't saying anything out of line; and keep an eye on those international students who probably hate us right now.

@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@Pedro said:

The party of free speech.🤭

Do you support rioting or unlawful assemblies Pedro? Do you think someone who participates in an act while under a student visa should have their visa revoked? Do you also support expelling any students who participate/encourage any unlawful assemblies or rioting?

You understand that Trump doesn’t believe any of that, right? In fact, he advocates and encourages it, to the point of pardoning cop beaters, as long as it’s conducive to his goals.

I'm honestly shocked, and concerned, that Trumps approval rating is as high as it is given how little his actions seem to benefit America. Truly a frightening amount of ill-informed people out there that really believe that, what he's doing is for the greater good....

@tocool340: It took a lot for many people to realize Jim Jones was bad.

Lol, chilling effect on free speech.

That's not how an unlawful assembly is declared. There's a pretty rigorous process involved for it, and not to mention the ton of case law behind it. Someone waving a flag is a little different from taking over a building, vandalism, looting, and refusing repeat lawful orders of dispersal.

Oh I don't doubt he believes it, but he also likely compartmentalizes/differentiates the two even though they're clearly comparable. What's next Mirko, you going to tell me that politicians will have double standards? That can not be, it's... Impossible!

Then I wish those capable of such distinctions would think twice about preaching law and order to others when they knowingly voted for the pardoning of the violence they bemoan and question others for failing to condemn, especially against LE. Such admonishments ring very hollow.

@tocool340: I'm honestly shocked, and concerned, that Trumps approval rating is as high as it is given how little his actions seem to benefit America. Truly a frightening amount of ill-informed people out there that really believe that, what he's doing is for the greater good....

I don't believe that approval is based on any moral wagering of policy, but instead is indicative of voters being pleased that Trump is simply taking action. Sure, all of it's effectively garbage and terrible for the U.S. and world, but the appearance of drastic action grants favor to impression, and love him or hate him, Trump has been taking drastic action.

I think once the effect of the policies manifest and more than action is evident, his approval rating is going to plummet.

You can send a letter in the mail to let the President know that his admonishments ring hollow.

One can also disagree with pardoning and still offer questions towards others regarding said topics. Unless it's all or nothing for you, Mirko? That's an exhausting way to go day by day.

You guys are wasting your time arguing with Stevo, he will NEVER admit to being wrong, he’s just stroking his ego with his posts. These discussions with him will go nowhere and are utterly pointless.

Sure one can, but you'd think one would also have to swallow hard on the blatant hypocrisy in doing so.

Nah, it's not black and white Stevo-rino, but I'm not one to cast aside degrees, either. I suppose I'm still astonished that so many voted to not only pardon crimes against our country, but against LE, en masse and don't seem to care one whit, with many cheering and applauding it on. I would suspect that that would compel some to seal their lips when it comes to speaking on matters of the law, justice, and the addressment of violence when they have explicitly voted in rejection of it, but perhaps I'm a tad naïve. Idealistic.

Admittedly, yes.....it can get exhausting.

Again, you want me to participate in your red herring argument. I am not interested in any form. Toss the herring in the water. When you are ready to have a herring-less discussion, I am ready.

I am interested in the concept of "allow illegal protest". How does a college, school or university "allow illegal protest"?

And that is just the first part equation.

But, the same dude pardon the peaceful legal protest on Jan 6.😏

You are correct. This is why he started with the red herring.

@MirkoS77: Jan 6 was a peaceful legal protest. Thus the pardon.😏

Well that Trump address was a waste of time.

Mars? Yea right. Let Elon burn billions and kill a few people in a rocket.

I am sorry for your loss of time.

Got this at least.

I don't think Trump, or any politician for that matter, has any issues with hypocrisy. In fact, it's the nature of the business to have "positions" ebb and flow as the winds of change move, especially in districts where there's little to no competition from opposing ideas, or from positions in power where there's limited tangible blowback. In fact, as the previous administration solidified, you can just blanket pardons folks, or your allies, willy-nelly.

Naivete and idealism commonly go hand-in-hand though, so don't fret. It is curable!

It's crazy that Europe still hasn't mobilised those frozen Russian assets. I'm not sure what the profile is, but can't see an argument against immediate liquidation of state and sanctioned individual assets, with a deadline for the rest, dependent on peace talk progress. Is it just one country holding that up now?

The debt break removal (again, supported mainly by the same country?), might be necessary but could also lead to rifts down the line and fears of an internal power play. That step might be better viewed as a secondary measure.

Also, not sure why certain traditional Labour elements in the UK have an issue with ramping up defence manufacture. It would seem like a good first step towards reintroducing secondary industry to the country - a potential foothold for Labour if anything.

Random fact: Herring day (śledzik) was yesterday in Poland. It's our name for Shrove Tuesday. Not sure that people eat any more herrings than any other day, mind, as we're a pretty herringy kind of nation.

Gotta give credit where Credit is due.

RFK Jr. at least for now has changed his tune on the MMR vaccine. Telling people to get vaccinated. Unfortunately, he is still promoting vitamin A for measles. Which is dangerous quackery.

But the fact that he promotes MMR Vaccines at all, is a huge improvement. Especially after having demonized them for so long.

No, it is THE focal point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_Peace

The concept of the PfP was first discussed by the Bulgarian societyNovae, after being proposed as anAmericaninitiative at the meeting of NATOdefense ministersinTravemünde,Germany, between October 20 and 21, 1993, and it was formally launched on January 10–11, 1994, at the NATOsummitin Brussels, Belgium.[9]According to declassified U.S. State Department records,[10]President Clintoncharacterized toPresident Yeltsinthe PfP as a "track that will lead to NATO membership" and that "does not draw another line dividing Europe a few hundred miles to the east".[11]In September 1994 Clinton told Yeltsin that NATO would expand, but there was no timetable.[12][13]By that time, Yeltsin had claimed a Russiansphere of influencecovering theCommonwealth of Independent States.[14]According to Russian Foreign MinisterAndrei Kozyrev, in 1993 Yeltsin had been led to believe that Partnership for Peace would be an alternative to NATO membership, not a program for it, although the head of theForeign Intelligence Service,Yevgeny Primakov, told him this was a way to begin NATO expansion. Yeltsin still authorized Russia to become a member of the PfP on 22 June 1994, but later said he felt betrayed after NATO declared that PfP was a path to membership in December 1994.

In early 1995 he changed Russia's policy as being opposed to any NATO expansion.

That was 30 years ago. And please, not the "promise not to expand east" strawman. The US never promised to not build a missile complex in poland, but Obama decided against it... but then it was build anyway. Remember Oreshnik, the mid range ballsitic missile the Russians demonstrated end of November last year?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland

The base was officially opened on 13 November 2024

Western politicians are responsible for this mess in large parts. "Let's poke the bear, poke it some more, poke it in the anus, poke it in the balls", then being illprepared for when the bear gets mad. Remember when Trump warned Germany about dependence on Russian energy? The german delegation laughed. Then the war started, and they were laughing no more. After hastely switching off nuclear power plants previously, they wanted to power them up again (at least some). They didn't know it isn't a simple matter of Off-switch On-Switch. Good thing Germany does not depend on any other totalitarian regimes when it come to energy needs and tech...

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germanys-solar-power-industry-worried-dependence-chinese-suppliers

Trump isn't "scuttling" anything. What von der Leyen said are scuttling words, talking of turning Ukraine into a "steel porcupine". Or Zelenskys recent comment, that his mission is done when Ukraine has joined NATO. Why would the Russians be interested in a cease fire? What for? Pro longing the war, giving ukr. army a breather. What makes you think this will help bringing Putin to the table and that his words can be trusted? Plan to pressure Russia? What plan? What plassure? Russia is pushing because the more they got, the less the others have and a cease fire is not to their advantage. And i thought it's of little use, since the Russians gonna violate it eventually. They have the time, resources and the will to fight this war to the bitter end. Ukraine doesn't.

You history analogy doesn't apply. It wasn't Russia who sought to annex Ukraine. It was NATO with the intention of using post-soviet states as assets to oppose Russia. It is rather the opposite, with NATO encrouching in the direction of Russias borders, eroding its sphere of influence.

Another fallacy is that of Putin as the power hungry mad man. At least he is not doing a good job. If Putin really wanted to make Russia great again, why didn't he invade Ukraine years earlier? 2015-16 and it would've been a walk in the park compared to 2022. Instead, western nations were given plenty of time to prepare Ukraine, with ukr. Army being build-up and re-organzied (anti-curruption) and receiving crucial material. The russian army was no different back then, there was no modernisation process and no need for military build up.

I should have invaded Ukraine earlier, Putin tells Russians in TV marathon

But maybe you can have an answer to this question...

@palasta: You really think the guy who kills oppositors and holds fake elections isn't power hungry because he didn't start a war with Ukraine earlier? That's your argument?

Bit of a misconception (which seem to have a lot of) that simply taking land equates to a win, like it's a Command And Conquer video game or some shit.

Again, this goes all the way back to medieval times, my country funnily enough. England declared victory and took all of Scotland.

It turned into guerrilla tactics where it became unsuitable for England regardless of objectively superior forces, culminating in Battle Of Bannockburn where the topography of the land, internal corruption and poor tactics worked against them. A lot of them dying in a burn (stream) as they were routed. i.e. Bannockburn

Now probably thinking "ahh that's a stupid ass comparison, they had axes and spears this is modern day", no, that tactic is demonstrably true to this day.

Vietnam, Rus/Afg, Iraq etc..

Ukraine itself, we can argue, through it's use of cheap and efficient drones, have changed how everything works, creating a modern equivalent of hit and run tactics.

What you would have for Russia is Afghanistan 2.0, but worse, signicantly worse. In part because unlike them, they would continue to be supplied by Europe, itself signicantly more wealthy than Russia, by a lot, with Russia as is, already in a bad state.

Wonderful quote in Deep Space 9, when Star Trek wasn't garbage, "victory will taste as bitter as defeat" and it holds true here, right now.

The idea that this has made Russia "great again", is laughable.

In fact, from the opening days of this war, you had a 40 mile line of broken down tanks, in part due to internal corruption creating the longest traffic jam in human history.

Russia has had to ask NK for help, both shells and litterally their army, itself defeated and crushed to be re-assessed because a country of about 37 million people invaded on of about 144 million and repeatedly attacks it, about 10% of their refinery capacity, and of course something like 33%+ of Black Sea Fleet, when Ukraine had no navy.

Ultimately Russia bit off more than it could chew, expecting Ukraine to roll over and (arguably rightly so) a milk toast response from the outside world. It's a big, bloody mess.

And then their golden angel came along, the big Don', who seems to have it in his brain he and Putin are like Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon.

Broskiez.

Factoid appreciated.😊

This doesn't make sense, but at this point them not making sense is pretty much the norm.

https://x.com/JDVance/status/1896891416187703687

This is absurdly dishonest. I don’t even mention the UK or France in the clip, both of whom have fought bravely alongside the US over the last 20 years, and beyond.

You appear to be interested only in circular reasoning which is clearly evidenced by your repeat concluding statements with no explanations.

I see you're regurgitating one of previous posts ... and as I said earlier to you, it didn't go in your favor the last go around when you summarized your response to me as to misreading things... lol

Let me know if you forgot that bit, I'm sure a quick google site: search will do the trick. ;)

French Senator : "Washington has become Nero’s court, with an incendiary emperor, submissive courtiers and a jester high on ketamine. (...) We were at war with a dictator, we are now at war with a dictator backed by a traitor" - Claude Malhuret.

Prigozhin pulled a Hitman and changed into a suit, entire French parliament unaware it's him.

https://x.com/VolodimirZelen1/status/1897246348191391926

It's sad that most people here still don't get it as to why President Trump won fair and square and everyone here wants to label you as a red herring is laughable. Tisk tisk.

Well, only Pedro has used that label and it's directed at the specific questions of mine which itemized President Trump's commentary.

There's a couple reasons why someone would immediately resort to knee-jerk reactionary language when asked to elaborate on their thoughts;

1) they have difficulty expressing their thoughts beyond puddle level depths likely due to a lack of personal experience or it's beyond the scope of their understanding; in addition, there's likely a hesitance to just simply admitting a lack of understanding of subject matter;

2) it necessitates them to be honest or dishonest for that matter, and requires one take a position beyond one-off commentary;

There's probably some more nuance, but when you're not used to confrontation the first instinct is common to lash out or seek out a higher authority (speak to the manager syndrome). Granted, I relish in confrontation and why I love interrogations, and especially love court. They're just so much fun.

On the contrary. You initiated the discussion with a red herring with the intention of me participating in "circular reasoning" with disingenuous start and as I have repeated, I wasn't interested. You can feign ignorance until the end of the US. 😂