America's music taste is degrading

England generally does and always has had a better music scene. Just thought I'd put it out there.

DmadFearmonger

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

I'm pretty sure he was thinking Moonlight Sonata.

ColonelVodka

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] That's quite a conclusion to jump to. The collection of Beethoven's piano sonatas (and that's just the piano sonatas, not the sonatas for cello or violin and piano) comes in two volumes, the first of which has 17 compositions.PannicAtack

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]I read it wrong. I thought your post actually said "Moonlight Sonata." My bad. I wouldn't say I have dyslexia, but I have been known to make very strange reading mistakes, and especially when I read numbers.

ColonelVodka

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]I read it wrong. I thought your post actually said "Moonlight Sonata." My bad. I wouldn't say I have dyslexia, but I have been known to make very strange reading mistakes, and especially when I read numbers.

ColonelVodka

and a follow up... Repitition is a huge part of music. If you introduce a theme, then you should almost always bring it back. If you have a song with 8 different sections with 8 different ideas, it doesn't make any sense. You have to bring back, and expand upon your themes and motives

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] I was referring to the Pathetique. The Moonlight Sonata is also very repetitive. Point is, you criticize pop music for being repetitive, and the very first thing on the list of music you do like is Beethoven.Shmiity

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]A sonata is not repetitive in the same sense as the verse-chorus structure. Repetition can be a good thing when used wisely. Also, what did you mean by "I V I V" earlier?

ColonelVodka

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

Youre using a lot of blanket statements man. Pop music is a huge genre. Yeah, huge parts of pop songs are verses and choruses; bridges, middle 8's, solos and codas. Its all about what you do within those sections. There is a reason why I vi IV V is the progression to so many songs. Every harmony has been played before. Music is a huge balancing act. Riffs/themes/motives are much more important then chords/harmony function. Knowing how harmony functions is really important sure, but you gotta get beyond it. I wasnt here for the whole debate, but what about pop do you actually dislike? Cause a lot of music is the same.

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

Shmiity

Youre using a lot of blanket statements man. Pop music is a huge genre. Yeah, huge parts of pop songs are verses and choruses; bridges, middle 8's, solos and codas. Its all about what you do within those sections. There is a reason why I vi IV V is the progression to so many songs. Every harmony has been played before. Music is a huge balancing act. Riffs/themes/motives are much more important then chords/harmony function. Knowing how harmony functions is really important sure, but you gotta get beyond it. I wasnt here for the whole debate, but what about pop do you actually dislike? Cause a lot of music is the same.

Do people really not notice the difference between this and this?

And before you look at me like someone who doesn't know **** about music, I wrote this and this. It's nothing special. Just one of the 100 songs or so I wrote, but the point is that I do understand music, somewhat.

Degrading is used incorrectly in the topic title

Degrading is used incorrectly in the topic title

stupid4

Degrading is used incorrectly in the topic title

stupid4

[QUOTE="stupid4"]

Degrading is used incorrectly in the topic title

Sunsha

I think it needs another word to it. "America's music taste is degrading lately."ColonelVodka

It's not just America, every country has their fair share of crap artists.

It's not just America, every country has their fair share of crap artists.

The-Tree

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]A sonata is not repetitive in the same sense as the verse-chorus structure. Repetition can be a good thing when used wisely. Also, what did you mean by "I V I V" earlier?

ColonelVodka

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

Here's the specific example I had in mind - Sonata Pathetique, third movement. I analyzed this for a music theory project, and I might be a little hazy on the details, but it follows basic Rondo form - ABACA' etc. or something like that.

There's repetition. Tons and tons of repetition.

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

Im pretty sure he is referring to Tonic and Dominant areas of a harmony structure. You can Boil any song down to just Tonic, Pre-dominant, and Dominant function areas. I V are chord symbols, or harmony symbols. (I = tonic, V= dominant)

PannicAtack

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]I figured as much, but chord progression isn't the only thing that makes something repetitive. I can make a whole song out of very little and still make it seem not repetetive by adding a lot of variation (that's something most pop music doesn't do). I am not too good with these musical terms, but my ears sure can tell the difference.

ColonelVodka

Youre using a lot of blanket statements man. Pop music is a huge genre. Yeah, huge parts of pop songs are verses and choruses; bridges, middle 8's, solos and codas. Its all about what you do within those sections. There is a reason why I vi IV V is the progression to so many songs. Every harmony has been played before. Music is a huge balancing act. Riffs/themes/motives are much more important then chords/harmony function. Knowing how harmony functions is really important sure, but you gotta get beyond it. I wasnt here for the whole debate, but what about pop do you actually dislike? Cause a lot of music is the same.

Do people really not notice the difference between this and this?

And before you look at me like someone who doesn't know **** about music, I wrote this and this. It's nothing special. Just one of the 100 songs or so I wrote, but the point is that I do understand music, somewhat.

I think there's something to be said for simplicity. Even measures, even phrases, no time signature changes. I hate busy music. Do you listen to The Killers or The Strokes? They are awesome bands. But in every single one of their songs, the phrases are even, the measures are even, there are no time signature changes. If you put a sophisticated arrangement in a timeless pop form, you can do no wrong. Im not very fond of much ****cal music. I played some Chopin preludes and Beethovens Apothetique second movement, + the first movement of the moonlight sonata, but thats really it. Being a pop player, Im not fond of things being uneven. You need to have a damn good reason. For example, Bloc Party's "This Modern love" has a measure of 2/4 at the end of every 7 bar phrase, but because there are 4 of these 7 bar phrases, they make even 28. Changing stuff to be cool never works. Just stop being stupid and play in 4/4.

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]I figured as much, but chord progression isn't the only thing that makes something repetitive. I can make a whole song out of very little and still make it seem not repetetive by adding a lot of variation (that's something most pop music doesn't do). I am not too good with these musical terms, but my ears sure can tell the difference.

ColonelVodka

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="PannicAtack"] But music in the ****cal era is always going to be repetitive in very blatant ways, due to the forms used. First movement of any multi-movement piece in that era (piano sonata, concerto, symphony, etc.) is very simply going to have the Introduction/Development/Recapitulation/Coda format. And that's just the first movement. The following movements also have their different form conventions. There's repetition. Tons and tons of repetition.PannicAtack

Music hasn't really changed at all. All those art songs and arias are all about getting chicks. Just like Today's music is all about getting chicks. And we all know that every sad song in existence was formed from not getting said chicks. I - iii- IV- vi anyone?

But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMAT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well?

But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? Bloodseeker23

Lady Gaga can actually sing very very well. It's just she sings incredibly stupid songs. JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Lady Gaga can actually sing very very well. It's just she sings incredibly stupid songs. Bloodseeker23

[QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Lady Gaga can actually sing very very well. It's just she sings incredibly stupid songs. Shmiity

[QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"]But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? Shmiity

[QUOTE="Shmiity"][QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"]But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? Bloodseeker23

The way time signatures work is the top number says how many beats there are in a measure, and the number on the bottom indicates the value of the notes - x/4 means quarter note gets a beat, x/2 means half-note gets a beat, x/8 means an eighth-note gets a beat, etc.

I demand a link to this "singing very well"!Ringx55

[QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"]But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? Shmiity

[QUOTE="Shmiity"][QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"]But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? ColonelVodka

Hey man, rock on. Go for it. Being a songwriter, all I can do is encourage genuine songcraft.

Hooray for generalizations!!!!

[QUOTE="Shmiity"][QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"] True that. Ringx55

Well here's her perfoming Paparazzi live, which is when I first fell in love with her. Theres been other videos of her performing live in this thread already that show she can sing.

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"][QUOTE="Diablo-B"]Music is subjective. You may not like the current music but others do.GreySeal9

Yes, but people have differing ideas on what's bad.

Believe it or not, there are people who think the music you listen to is bad.

Yeah...EXACTLY.

That's precisely why such things as "good" or "bad" MUST be based on something a little bit more concrete than mere opinion. If one can form a coherent and well-reasoned argument for why something is "good" or "bad", then at the very least that's a hell of a lot better than simply saying "it's good because I like it".

I think people alot of people can't get past Gaga's rather weird vocal phrasings (basically, don't like the sound of her voice) and confuse that for bad singing.

Lady Gaga easily has one of the stronger pop voices out there right now.

Say what you will about Lady Gaga's music, but she is a tremendously talented singer.

TaCoDuDe

[QUOTE="JML897"]

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"]They don't play Tool on MAINSTREAM radio do they? They play that on the GOOD statoins.DmadFearmonger

Here in Chicago they play Tool on Q101 which is a big alt rock station. It's definitely a mainstream radio station.

I live in goddamn Pensacola, FL, and Tool gets played all the ****ing time.

Granted...I'm not saying that Tool is BAD, but they're TOTALLY mainstream. Go just about ANYWHERE and ask someone if they know about Tool, and they'll have heard Tool's songs on local mAinstream radio.

Yes, Tool is ****ing mainstream. That's absolutely NOT saying that they suck. But they';re popular as ****, to the point where their place in the "musaic industry" is on par with bands like goddamn Nickelback. "Alt" (and by that, I am assuming you mean "alternative") music doesn't mean anything as a category. A HELL of a lot of bands have been categorized as "alternative" while simultaneously being some of the hottest **** on the planet.

Anyway, on the topic of being mainstream and/or selling out, let me quote a Tool lyric....

"I've got some advice for you, little buddy. Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm The Man. And if I'm the ****ing Man then you're the ****ing Man as well, so you can point that ****ing finger up your ***."

There are other examples of American music......you can choose good and bad music to point out from any era....any country.

And I don't agree with most of the music you did highlight as good.

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"][QUOTE="JML897"]

Here in Chicago they play Tool on Q101 which is a big alt rock station. It's definitely a mainstream radio station.

MrGeezer

I live in goddamn Pensacola, FL, and Tool gets played all the ****ing time.

Granted...I'm not saying that Tool is BAD, but they're TOTALLY mainstream. Go just about ANYWHERE and ask someone if they know about Tool, and they'll have heard Tool's songs on local mAinstream radio.

Yes, Tool is ****ing mainstream. That's absolutely NOT saying that they suck. But they';re popular as ****, to the point where their place in the "musaic industry" is on par with bands like goddamn Nickelback. "Alt" (and by that, I am assuming you mean "alternative") music doesn't mean anything as a category. A HELL of a lot of bands have been categorized as "alternative" while simultaneously being some of the hottest **** on the planet.

Anyway, on the topic of being mainstream and/or selling out, let me quote a Tool lyric....

"I've got some advice for you, little buddy. Before you point your finger, you should know that I'm The Man. And if I'm the ****ing Man then you're the ****ing Man as well, so you can point that ****ing finger up your ***."

[QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"]Deep, complex and technically brilliant rock bands that play what they love. Not someone who writes for the money. DmadFearmonger

Today I learned that "Deep" and "Complex" are capitalized words.

*Lady Gaga is a fantastic vocalist*

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"][QUOTE="ColonelVodka"]Besides Porcupine Tree, what else do you like? I am curious.

TaCoDuDe

Today I learned that "Deep" and "Complex" are capitalized words.

*Lady Gaga is a fantastic vocalist*

There are still great artists, you just have to look at them. You can't assume the only musicians in America are the ones being played on the radio.

[QUOTE="TaCoDuDe"]

[QUOTE="DmadFearmonger"]Dream Theater, Tool, Radiohead, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, King Crimson, Rush, Steve Vai, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Pink Floyd Those are a few. I listen to a fair few indie and Underground artists too. Though not Deep and Complex most of the time they can be very talented and creative.DmadFearmonger

Today I learned that "Deep" and "Complex" are capitalized words.

*Lady Gaga is a fantastic vocalist*

[QUOTE="Bloodseeker23"]But what if he can produce better music without FOLLOWING THE RIGHT FORMANT? Isn't that what is music all about? expressing yourself, or something? I mean why stop there on that 4/4 thing, I don't even know know that and I'll be honest on that. I mean seriously, whats wrong with trying to be different and through that achieve greatness as well? Shmiity

Who says that music has to follow a specific time signature? It doesn't. David Gilmour, Richard Wright and a couple of other of the musicians got together and jammed in Gilmour's barn and with Gilmour on drums, kicked out the awesome jam that is Barn Jam 192 with a really odd time signature that works and kicks rear.

What is or isn't good in music is subjective. There are those who will like today's music while there are those who don't and do not think it is good. I can't stand pop music from today (and can barely stomache some of what I grew up with before I really got into rock and heavy metal) yet I can enjoy the subtleties of Jazz and the blues and can dig lots of Motown. I can rock out to Rare Earth one minute and chill to some Carly Simon the next. I may be soberly tripping on some PF then turn around and be banging my head to some Judas Priest.

I don't care if someone likes pop singer a and not heavy metal band d. Chastising someone for their tastes in music is ridiculous and uncalled for. That is what makes people who they are, their individuality, especially when it comes to music.

I think people alot of people can't get past Gaga's rather weird vocal phrasings (basically, don't like the sound of her voice) and confuse that for bad singing.

Lady Gaga easily has one of the stronger pop voices out there right now.

GreySeal9

I always loved great American singers as Michael Jackson , Madonna , Tupac Shakur ETC . Even Backstreet Boys . Whole World used to love those artists .

No offense to American's , for god's sake ... whats wrong with American music nowadays ???

Why American music industry hyping and promoting worst singers as Justin Beiber , Lady Gaga , Rebecca Black and Lil Wayne ? What happened to finding real talents and promoting them instead ?

Thoughts ?

indzman