Are Real Men A Dying Breed?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

it's not just real men, but putting men down in general or mocking them.  

black_chamber99

Examples?

you ask for examples. I give you a half hour full of different examples in the media all spliced together for your convienience and you dismiss it completely because its 'dumb' lol

you're a f%king idiot

With reading comprehension this poor, you shouldn't really be calling anybody an idiot.

I said that the video looked sort of dumb, but that I will comment on specific parts of the video. In no way did I dismiss it.

Instead of embarrasing yourself, why don't you pick out specific parts of the video for discussion?

Another black_chamber thread that people continue to respond to.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Examples?

GreySeal9

Women on "The Talk" laughing at a story where a man's penis was cut off and put in the garbage disposal.  One host stated, "its quite fabulous"

That this ad was allowed during the Supwerbowl, making light of domestic abuse against men and that it should be found humorous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX7oYAygWOQ

in terms of "real men," the growing trend of women being the primary breadwinners in a hosehold

I would have to see the clip of The Talk, but these are two examples and as I said, there are ads that make fun of women as well.

I fail to see how the growing trend of women become the primary breadwinners means that "real men" are dying out. Is there a logical reason why masculinity must be tied to becing the primary breadwinner of a household?

Yes, it is generally considered the maler role to be the primary bread winner, thus being linked to "real men."  There are ones that may poke fun at women, but no where near like a commercial that mocks domestic abuse, nor would one be tolerated in America.  

Here's the video of the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

Where they make fun of a man being castrated, because he was filing for divorce.  And one woman in the crowd saying "that'll teach him," implying he deserved it.  The sarah gilbert brings up that no one would be making fun of a woman being disfigured, they state that it's entirely different; and then turn it into a joke about male impotence. 

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Women on "The Talk" laughing at a story where a man's penis was cut off and put in the garbage disposal.  One host stated, "its quite fabulous"

That this ad was allowed during the Supwerbowl, making light of domestic abuse against men and that it should be found humorous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX7oYAygWOQ

in terms of "real men," the growing trend of women being the primary breadwinners in a hosehold

lostrib

I would have to see the clip of The Talk, but these are two examples and as I said, there are ads that make fun of women as well.

I fail to see how the growing trend of women become the primary breadwinners means that "real men" are dying out. Is there a logical reason why masculinity must be tied to becing the primary breadwinner of a household?

Yes, it is generally considered the maler role to be the primary bread winner, thus being linked to "real men."  There are ones that may poke fun at women, but no where near like a commercial that mocks domestic abuse, nor would one be tolerated in America.  

Here's the video of the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

Where they make fun of a man being castrated, because he was filing for divorce.  And one woman in the crowd saying "that'll teach him," implying he deserved it.  The sarah gilbert brings up that no one would be making fun of a woman being disfigured, they state that it's entirely different; and then turn it into a joke about male impotence. 

The Talk clip shows that those women are a bunch of idiots. It does not show that there's some sort of giant campaign against men in the media.

I'd agree that domestic violence against men is not taken seriously enough by the media and the public, but ironically, it's the whole "real men" nonsense that makes it so that a man is seen as weak if he is the victim of domestic violence.

I still don't see why being the primary bread winner must be tied to masculinity. Like anything else, gender roles undergo changes over time.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I would have to see the clip of The Talk, but these are two examples and as I said, there are ads that make fun of women as well.

I fail to see how the growing trend of women become the primary breadwinners means that "real men" are dying out. Is there a logical reason why masculinity must be tied to becing the primary breadwinner of a household?

GreySeal9

Yes, it is generally considered the maler role to be the primary bread winner, thus being linked to "real men."  There are ones that may poke fun at women, but no where near like a commercial that mocks domestic abuse, nor would one be tolerated in America.  

Here's the video of the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

Where they make fun of a man being castrated, because he was filing for divorce.  And one woman in the crowd saying "that'll teach him," implying he deserved it.  The sarah gilbert brings up that no one would be making fun of a woman being disfigured, they state that it's entirely different; and then turn it into a joke about male impotence. 

The Talk clip shows that those women are a bunch of idiots. It does not show that there's some sort of giant campaign against men in the media.

I'd agree that domestic violence against men is not taken seriously enough by the media and the public, but ironically, it's the whole "real men" nonsense that makes it so that a man is seen as weak if he is the victim of domestic violence.

I still don't see why being the primary bread winner must be tied to masculinity. Like anything else, gender roles undergo changes over time.

It's the traditional view of the household.  Which seems to be changing currently

Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

Yes. There is no reason the "traditional view" should have any authority.

Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

lostrib

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

Yes. There is no reason the "traditional view" should have any authority.

[quote="lostrib"]Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

GreySeal9

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

how about that half hour of footage you conveniently ignored?

Yes. There is no reason the "traditional view" should have any authority.

[quote="lostrib"]Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

GreySeal9

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Yes. There is no reason the "traditional view" should have any authority.

[quote="lostrib"]Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

black_chamber99

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

how about that half hour of footage you conveniently ignored?

I told you that I'm not watching the entire video. Cite specific parts of it and tell me why they make your case. If you simply dump a YouTube video on me, you can expect that it will be ignored.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Yes. There is no reason the "traditional view" should have any authority.

[quote="lostrib"]Uh since the talk is part of "the media'" and that the entire audience of women were laughing and participating in mocking a man getting disfigured it shows that there is a view in the media and public that dismisses and demeans men.  

The point of the super bowl commercial is that it is okay in the media (TV) and in the publics view to abuse and demean men.

Ace6301

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

Agreed. Sexism against men should be dealt with when it presents itself, but it should be kept in perspective.

Anyway I'm reasonably certain I'm not one because I'm too emotional. A trait often associated with the woman. Plus I love to cook, enjoy chick flicks, see other men as competition rather than my bros and find most sports boring. So yeah.

I should have anticipated the, "Nope, Elijah Wood is still alive!" comment.mattbbpl

MANDOM

To my knowledge, man at its greatest potential has not yet existed outside of fiction (Howard Roark, John Galt). However, there are great men alive in the world today, such as Elijah Wood and Sean Bean.Laihendi

lai be serius now. Elijah wood is by no means close to any ideal.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]I should have anticipated the, "Nope, Elijah Wood is still alive!" comment.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]To my knowledge, man at its greatest potential has not yet existed outside of fiction (Howard Roark, John Galt). However, there are great men alive in the world today, such as Elijah Wood and Sean Bean.frannkzappa

lai be serius now. Elijah wood is by no means close to any ideal.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Examples?

GreySeal9

Women on "The Talk" laughing at a story where a man's penis was cut off and put in the garbage disposal.  One host stated, "its quite fabulous"

That this ad was allowed during the Supwerbowl, making light of domestic abuse against men and that it should be found humorous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX7oYAygWOQ

in terms of "real men," the growing trend of women being the primary breadwinners in a hosehold

I would have to see the clip of The Talk, but these are two examples and as I said, there are ads that make fun of women as well.

I fail to see how the growing trend of women become the primary breadwinners means that "real men" are dying out. Is there a logical reason why masculinity must be tied to becing the primary breadwinner of a household?

The Talk video is absolutely sickening tbh.  As a whole though I agree with your point Grey.  A lot of people are way overreacting if they think men are somehow marginalized and taunted in mainstream media. I still sometimes get upset about that "The Talk" clip and I saw it over a year ago though, really disgusting.  That's not indicative of some trend in society or media though.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Women on "The Talk" laughing at a story where a man's penis was cut off and put in the garbage disposal.  One host stated, "its quite fabulous"

That this ad was allowed during the Supwerbowl, making light of domestic abuse against men and that it should be found humorous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX7oYAygWOQ

in terms of "real men," the growing trend of women being the primary breadwinners in a hosehold

TacticalDesire

I would have to see the clip of The Talk, but these are two examples and as I said, there are ads that make fun of women as well.

I fail to see how the growing trend of women become the primary breadwinners means that "real men" are dying out. Is there a logical reason why masculinity must be tied to becing the primary breadwinner of a household?

The Talk video is absolutely sickening tbh.  As a whole though I agree with your point Grey.  A lot of people are way overreacting if they think men are somehow marginalized and taunted in mainstream media. I still sometimes get upset about that "The Talk" clip and I saw it over a year ago though, really disgusting.  That's not indicative of some trend in society or media though.

Those "The Talk" women are kooky.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]To my knowledge, man at its greatest potential has not yet existed outside of fiction (Howard Roark, John Galt). However, there are great men alive in the world today, such as Elijah Wood and Sean Bean.Laihendi

lai be serius now. Elijah wood is by no means close to any ideal.

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

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my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

People with morals and spines in general are a dying breed.

redstorm72

This is a better way of voicing the complaint I was making.  

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

lai be serius now. Elijah wood is by no means close to any ideal.

frannkzappa

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

How much did his genitalia shrink from taking all those roids?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

lai be serius now. Elijah wood is by no means close to any ideal.

frannkzappa

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Elijah Wood is a talented man who is beautiful of both mind and body. He is an uncompromising artist who accepts roles according to their merit rather than commercial potential. He recently starred in the film Maniac, where he delivered a magnificent performance. He is also starring in the upcoming film Grand Piano, which looks to be far superior to the Hollywood hack jobs we are bombarded with today.hartsickdiscipl

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

How much did his genitalia shrink from taking all those roids?

Sergio Oliva did no steroids. He was an incredibly moral man that mapped out his work out schedule. He gained his Godly body with willpower,consistency and hard work.

Also steroids weren't used by athletes till the late 70's. Sergio was active late 60's.

How much did his genitalia shrink from taking all those roids?

hartsickdiscipl

The bigger arguement against that guy is he was shot by his wife. I was agreeing until I read that about him.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

 

No and no.

 

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

 

 

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

 

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my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

 

 

 

 

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

frannkzappa

How much did his genitalia shrink from taking all those roids?

Sergio Oliva did no steroids. He was an incredibly moral man that mapped out his work out schedule. He gained his Godly body with willpower,consistency and hard work.

Also steroids weren't used by athletes till the late 70's. Sergio was active late 60's.

Steroids have been around for a very long time.  That guy was on the roids.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  It's blatantly obvious.  

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Elijah Wood is a talented man who is beautiful of both mind and body. He is an uncompromising artist who accepts roles according to their merit rather than commercial potential. He recently starred in the film Maniac, where he delivered a magnificent performance. He is also starring in the upcoming film Grand Piano, which looks to be far superior to the Hollywood hack jobs we are bombarded with today.Laihendi

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

Sergio Oliva is not unseemly. he is the embodiment of perfect health. His muscles are all completely proportional and exude an aura of strength and flexibility. Sergio was not hindered by his perfect form in any way he was a superb runner and flexible enough to do vertical and horizontal splits. His body offered numerus adavantages while Elijah's offers none.

Oliva has given the world himself. through his example people can see perfection and they can imitate it. he was a living example of what the individual could achieve. this far outranks playing characters written by other people.

If that is unsightly than i question your standard of beauty.

It is also worth mentioning that he rescued all 32 members of the Cuban weightlifting team from communist Cuba. Elijah has done no such heroism outside of film.

yes

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

How much did his genitalia shrink from taking all those roids?

hartsickdiscipl

Sergio Oliva did no steroids. He was an incredibly moral man that mapped out his work out schedule. He gained his Godly body with willpower,consistency and hard work.

Also steroids weren't used by athletes till the late 70's. Sergio was active late 60's.

Steroids have been around for a very long time. That guy was on the roids. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's blatantly obvious.

might want to do some research buddy.

while roids were invented in the 30's they weren't used for performance enhancement till the 70's. nobody thought they could be used for performance enhancement until the 50's. and the first case's of their use in sports was in the 70's.

sorry if you can't believe that not every muscular man needs drugs. but than again you believe in space lizards and CIA conspiracies, so think what you want.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Sergio Oliva did no steroids. He was an incredibly moral man that mapped out his work out schedule. He gained his Godly body with willpower,consistency and hard work.

 

Also steroids weren't used by athletes till the late 70's. Sergio was active late 60's.

frannkzappa

Steroids have been around for a very long time. That guy was on the roids. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's blatantly obvious.

might want to do some research buddy.

while roids were invented in the 30's they weren't used for performance enhancement till the 70's. nobody thought they could be used for performance enhancement until the 50's. and the first case's of their use in sports was in the 70's.

sorry if you can't believe that not every muscular man needs drugs. but than again you believe in space lizards and CIA conspiracies, so think what you want.

There is a particular look associated with someone who does steroids, and he is the epitome of it.  

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Steroids have been around for a very long time. That guy was on the roids. Sorry to burst your bubble. It's blatantly obvious.

hartsickdiscipl

might want to do some research buddy.

while roids were invented in the 30's they weren't used for performance enhancement till the 70's. nobody thought they could be used for performance enhancement until the 50's. and the first case's of their use in sports was in the 70's.

sorry if you can't believe that not every muscular man needs drugs. but than again you believe in space lizards and CIA conspiracies, so think what you want.

There is a particular look associated with someone who does steroids, and he is the epitome of it.

i'll take the opinion of the body building association, Sergio's comments on the matter and the general history of steroids in sports over your hunch.

Yes, they are. In just under a century, virtually every real man in existence today will have died.

On a more serious note, whenever I hear people moaning mantras pertaining to men being persecuted, or "real" manliness going extinct, I am positively certain that they have vaginas.

Real men draw their own god damn avatars.

WiiCubeM1

Yes, they are. In just under a century, virtually every real man in existence today will have died.

On a more serious note, whenever I hear people moaning mantras pertaining to men being persecuted, or "real" manliness going extinct, I am positively certain that they have vaginas.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

might want to do some research buddy.

 

while roids were invented in the 30's they weren't used for performance enhancement till the 70's. nobody thought they could be used for performance enhancement until the 50's. and the first case's of their use in sports was in the 70's.

 

sorry if you can't believe that not every muscular man needs drugs. but than again you believe in space lizards and CIA conspiracies, so think what you want.

frannkzappa

There is a particular look associated with someone who does steroids, and he is the epitome of it.

i'll take the opinion of the body building association, Sergio's comments on the matter and the general history of steroids in sports over your hunch.

Q: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?

Sergio Oliva: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it.

It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

There is a particular look associated with someone who does steroids, and he is the epitome of it.

BMD004

i'll take the opinion of the body building association, Sergio's comments on the matter and the general history of steroids in sports over your hunch.

Q: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?

Sergio Oliva: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it.

It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.

those comments were about his resurgence in the 80's. both those drugs are mild and legal and are not what is tested for in sporting events. they also have limited health affects.

Olivias body is his own , not the product of steroids.

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

A little bit of both "yes" and "it's subjective." The stereotypical 'man' a lot of people imagine or see in the older movies is less common now, but being a man isn't necessarily defined by drinking beer, smoking cigars, and fixing cars. 

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

heeweesRus

You forgot Ayn Rand.

[QUOTE="heeweesRus"]

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

GreySeal9

You forgot Ayn Rand.

I can almost see Lai arguing that Ayn Rand is a "real man."

[QUOTE="heeweesRus"]

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

GreySeal9

You forgot Ayn Rand.

She's even manlier than Sergio.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="heeweesRus"]

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

coolbeans90

You forgot Ayn Rand.

I can almost see Lai arguing that Ayn Rand is a "real man."

A rational real man.

When I think of a real man it does not necessarily have to be John Wayne, but a gentleman that balances a variety of good qualities despite his short comings (understanding those of others) and does the right thing despite the hardships in view of the "big picture". . quadraleap

that would be Sergio Oliva.

[QUOTE="quadraleap"]When I think of a real man it does not necessarily have to be John Wayne, but a gentleman that balances a variety of good qualities despite his short comings (understanding those of others) and does the right thing despite the hardships in view of the "big picture". . frannkzappa

that would be Sergio Oliva.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="quadraleap"]When I think of a real man it does not necessarily have to be John Wayne, but a gentleman that balances a variety of good qualities despite his short comings (understanding those of others) and does the right thing despite the hardships in view of the "big picture". . quadraleap

that would be Sergio Oliva.

sorry... not many threads where i can express my love for Sergio Oliva.

sorry... not many threads where i can express my love for Sergio Oliva.

frannkzappa