Are Real Men A Dying Breed?

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

No and no.

he has not shown to be particularly spectacular mentally. from interviews and film choice i gather that he is not an idiot (as most are in Hollywood), but i sense no out of the ordinary intellect. he also is not governed by a by a meaningful philosophy as far as i can tell. if you have evidense that suggests otherwise please link.

as for body? he's short and frail, lacking the inherent athleticism of the ideal man.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

my ideal man would have to be Sergio Oliva.

Sergio has the perfect body, resembling the Greek statues. his godlike appearance is rivaled only by his keen intellect. After hours of developing his body and protecting the populace as a police officer, Sergio spent his time enhancing his mind. Sergio was a devoted academic and a superb athlete. He is also noted by his stern opposition to communism and had a philosophy centered around proper socialism. i am hard pressed to find a man more perfect than Sergio Oliva or a man that more perfectly matched Plato's ideal.

frannkzappa

Sergio Oliva is not unseemly. he is the embodiment of perfect health. His muscles are all completely proportional and exude an aura of strength and flexibility. Sergio was not hindered by his perfect form in any way he was a superb runner and flexible enough to do vertical and horizontal splits. His body offered numerus adavantages while Elijah's offers none.

Oliva has given the world himself. through his example people can see perfection and they can imitate it. he was a living example of what the individual could achieve. this far outranks playing characters written by other people.

If that is unsightly than i question your standard of beauty.

It is also worth mentioning that he rescued all 32 members of the Cuban weightlifting team from communist Cuba. Elijah has done no such heroism outside of film.

Plenty of real men exist, men like Elijah Wood, Sean Bean, Ron Paul, etc...

heeweesRus

beans, Ayn Rand was a manLaihendi

Obviously they're living longer knowing the dangers of smoking and drinking and other bad habits can cause. Barring family history of health disease, cancer and other genetic negative chances, "real" men have a much longer health expectancy. 

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Lord_Omikron666"]

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.

Lord_Omikron666

Have at you!

What anime is this from?

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

i'll take the opinion of the body building association, Sergio's comments on the matter and the general history of steroids in sports over your hunch.

frannkzappa

Q: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?

Sergio Oliva: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it.

It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.

those comments were about his resurgence in the 80's. both those drugs are mild and legal and are not what is tested for in sporting events. they also have limited health affects.

Olivias body is his own , not the product of steroids.

"And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it."

Secondly.. those drugs are not legal at all. What are you talking about? They are banned in all sports, including bodybuilding, and they are even illegal in the United States. And d-bol works for bulking up. That is why it is so popular and has been around for so long.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]lol... Sergio was obviously on steroids. Nobody can get that muscular with that low of a body fat % naturally. Anyway, don't take my opinion on it... how about you take what Sergio Oliva said himself:

Q: Could you relay your own experience with drug use?

Sergio Oliva: This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it.

It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong. Today you have guys weighing 200 pounds, and six months later they weigh 250-300 pounds! So you know these guys are taking something unbelievable. When they say they haven't taken any thing, you know that it's phony.BMD004

those comments were about his resurgence in the 80's. both those drugs are mild and legal and are not what is tested for in sporting events. they also have limited health affects.

Olivias body is his own , not the product of steroids.

"And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it."

Secondly.. those drugs are not legal at all. What are you talking about? They are banned in all sports, including bodybuilding, and they are even illegal in the United States. And d-bol works for bulking up. That is why it is so popular and has been around for so long.

they were legal at the time and are mild compared to what is used today.

Sergio's body is his own,a product of his own willpower.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Elijah's body is both elegant and lithe. You are failing to recognize his fine qualities by dogmatically demanding that he conform to your standards without first evaluating him in contrast to those standards. Sergio Oliva's body is awkward and unseemly, and he looks like a comic book character. Through his performances, Elijah has produced many excellent films in addition to 3 seasons of Wilfred, which is a very good show. What has Sergio Oliva produced? Also, Elijah's role selections demonstrate that he devoted to creating new types of film and television experiences rather than simply imitating what has been done before. Such an interest is a sign of intelligence.Laihendi

Sergio Oliva is not unseemly. he is the embodiment of perfect health. His muscles are all completely proportional and exude an aura of strength and flexibility. Sergio was not hindered by his perfect form in any way he was a superb runner and flexible enough to do vertical and horizontal splits. His body offered numerus adavantages while Elijah's offers none.

Oliva has given the world himself. through his example people can see perfection and they can imitate it. he was a living example of what the individual could achieve. this far outranks playing characters written by other people.

If that is unsightly than i question your standard of beauty.

It is also worth mentioning that he rescued all 32 members of the Cuban weightlifting team from communist Cuba. Elijah has done no such heroism outside of film.

71 is quite old and kidney failure was unrelated to his general health.

Sergio was a real life example, far more effective in film. Elijah is fit only for a make believe world, his accomplishments are fake whilst Sergio worked for his real achievements. we are not debating who is the better hobbit but who is the better man.

Sergio's self example and rescue of the Cuban weight lifting team, is far more impacting than acting in films other people wrote.

i also assume the points that you stopped arguing we now agree on.

that sergio guy is a freak of nature BossPerson

you are not 1/10th of the man he was.

physically or mentally.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]that sergio guy is a freak of nature frannkzappa

you are not 1/10th of the man he was.

physically or mentally.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]that sergio guy is a freak of nature BossPerson

you are not 1/10th of the man he was.

physically or mentally.

you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

you are not 1/10th of the man he was.

physically or mentally.

frannkzappa

you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]k, still doesn't detract from the fact he looks like a cartoon characterBossPerson

you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement.

would you care to debate standards of beauty?

does anyone else get the impression a small part of frannkzappa died when he realized his hero used roids?mmwmwmmwmwmm

steroids are just a tool.

and a little.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement.

frannkzappa

would you care to debate standards of beauty?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]ughBossPerson

would you care to debate standards of beauty?

there most certainly are. justice, intelligence,athleticism and practicality.

can you argue otherwise?

[QUOTE="black_chamber99"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The degree to which the campaign against the media pervades the media is important. Sexims in both directions will sometimes happen, so you're going to need to lay out a more robust case than two examples.

GreySeal9

how about that half hour of footage you conveniently ignored?

I told you that I'm not watching the entire video. Cite specific parts of it and tell me why they make your case. If you simply dump a YouTube video on me, you can expect that it will be ignored.

     First of all, you only asked for examples, second, do it yourself if you are going to argue about a video like a child.  The first part of the video lays it out, males are being too passive these days and women hate it.  Real men are up front, aggressive and take charge of situations.  But, we already know that you have a teenage mind and can not understand that peoples needs are more important than ideology.  Get equality out of your head, that is just simpelton thinking.  Interactions are never going to be equal, every person is different, but some things are universally true.  No one expects a person like you to understand complex concepts, they are too confusing to you.  So we will enjoy the hawt sexy bitches, while you can enjoy mediocre females.  

     I think this is relevent http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/ I think number one applies to this guy.  He will resist any improvement in life for these very reasons.  I have seen this happen to so many people, they dont understand the reason why people dont like them is becaues they dont care about anyone elses needs.  If you cant meet someone elses needs, they will soon not care about you at all.  I have worked several jobs and I can say that I was adored very much by others, they were impressed by my ability to meet other people's needs.  

     What people are not understanding is that real men know how to meet women's needs and in return no how to get women to meet their needs.  Women are going to meet your needs if you can show you will care about their needs.  Number one priority, is they want you to take charge over them, they love it.  Number one rule is that real men are in charge of decision making.  The reason why it is important for males to be the bread winners is because money does say who controls everything.  If the female makes all the money, she can ignore him in any decisions, which is the momment females become unnattracted to men.  That is why looks are not as important to women.  Not that they do not matter, but there is just some things a guy has to provide before she can even enjoy things like sex.  THAT is why equality SUCKS!

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

would you care to debate standards of beauty?

frannkzappa

there most certainly are. justice, intelligence,athleticism and practicality.

can you argue otherwise?

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

those comments were about his resurgence in the 80's. both those drugs are mild and legal and are not what is tested for in sporting events. they also have limited health affects.

Olivias body is his own , not the product of steroids.

frannkzappa

"And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it."

Secondly.. those drugs are not legal at all. What are you talking about? They are banned in all sports, including bodybuilding, and they are even illegal in the United States. And d-bol works for bulking up. That is why it is so popular and has been around for so long.

they were legal at the time and are mild compared to what is used today.

Sergio's body is his own,a product of his own willpower.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]there are no objective standards. But I like to go by what is most commonly agreed upon by the society that Im in and I definitely know that this Sergio guy doesnt meet those standards, and no he doesnt surpass them eitherBossPerson

there most certainly are. justice, intelligence,athleticism and practicality.

can you argue otherwise?

how are they not?

than polemically disprove it.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]I think you are mistaken. He said:

"And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it."

Secondly.. those drugs are not legal at all. What are you talking about? They are banned in all sports, including bodybuilding, and they are even illegal in the United States. And d-bol works for bulking up. That is why it is so popular and has been around for so long.

BMD004

they were legal at the time and are mild compared to what is used today.

Sergio's body is his own,a product of his own willpower.

regardless.

Steroid use is not the dominant factor for Sergio's body.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

there most certainly are. justice, intelligence,athleticism and practicality.

can you argue otherwise?

frannkzappa

how are they not?

than polemically disprove it.

you are a weird human being, from start to finish, you have weird obsessions

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

they were legal at the time and are mild compared to what is used today.

Sergio's body is his own,a product of his own willpower.

frannkzappa

regardless.

Steroid use is not the dominant factor for Sergio's body.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]those are commonly agreed upon, but they are not objective. And do you really think that guy's muscles are practical? BossPerson

how are they not?

than polemically disprove it.

values are subjective but the standard they are based on are not.

as for clothes he managed, though his police uniform had to be custom made.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]At the time they were... but they were banned in like the 80's or early 90's. And d-Bol is still one of the most widely-used steroids today. There is nothing "mild" about it. A test/d-bol/decca stack is very popular, even today, for bulking up. I'm sorry if this bursts your bubble, but Oliva, Arnold, and all of the famous bodybuilders were juiced up.BMD004

regardless.

Steroid use is not the dominant factor for Sergio's body.

i am not ignoring his use of steroids(anymore). but if they had only limited negative effects on his health, than they were just a tool.

Yep, no longer we fight bears with our bear hands to get food, we just simply get it delivered to us in a van, no longer we fight 1:1 with another man with blades in a battlefield, we simply press a button and a missle blows up our enemies from 100s of miles away, no longer we we fight for what is right we bow down to injustice now, no longer we trek 50 miles to get to another town for some milk and to call for our friends, we simply cower inside and hide behind a screen when talking to friends,...........................

When you have guys all over the internet cheering because an old male bus driver punched the hell out a young woman, I'd say yeah, they're pretty much extinct.

When you have guys all over the internet cheering because an old male bus driver punched the hell out a young woman, I'd say yeah, they're pretty much extincted.thebest31406

Yep, no longer we fight bears with our bear hands to get food, we just simply get it delivered to us in a van, no longer we fight 1:1 with another man with blades in a battlefield, we simply press a button and a missle blows up our enemies from 100s of miles away, no longer we we fight for what is right we bow down to injustice now, no longer we trek 50 miles to get to another town for some milk and to call for our friends, we simply cower inside and hide behind a screen when talking to friends,...........................

ultimate-k

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]When you have guys all over the internet cheering because an old male bus driver punched the hell out a young woman, I'd say yeah, they're pretty much extincted.BossPerson

In my view, a 'real man' is any man who is always humble and selfless and puts responsibility, civility and decorum first in all his dealings... a person who exudes strength of character and sets, through his own examples actions and deeds, a good, upright example for our youth... a person who is willing to defend, with his very life even, those who cannot defend themselves, never shirking from his responsibilities to his family, his community and his nation... so, yeah -- I guess its safe to say there aren't many 'real men' around anymore...67gt500

Pretty much this.. It is actually quite "unmanly" of the numerous posters who seem to have a absolute hard-on for certain body builders and atheletes.. Get a room, seriously..

[QUOTE="67gt500"]In my view, a 'real man' is any man who is always humble and selfless and puts responsibility, civility and decorum first in all his dealings... a person who exudes strength of character and sets, through his own examples actions and deeds, a good, upright example for our youth... a person who is willing to defend, with his very life even, those who cannot defend themselves, never shirking from his responsibilities to his family, his community and his nation... so, yeah -- I guess its safe to say there aren't many 'real men' around anymore...sSubZerOo

Pretty much this.. It is actually quite "unmanly" of the numerous posters who seem to have a absolute hard-on for certain body builders and atheletes.. Get a room, seriously..

everything in that quote describes Sergio...

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="67gt500"]In my view, a 'real man' is any man who is always humble and selfless and puts responsibility, civility and decorum first in all his dealings... a person who exudes strength of character and sets, through his own examples actions and deeds, a good, upright example for our youth... a person who is willing to defend, with his very life even, those who cannot defend themselves, never shirking from his responsibilities to his family, his community and his nation... so, yeah -- I guess its safe to say there aren't many 'real men' around anymore...frannkzappa

Pretty much this.. It is actually quite "unmanly" of the numerous posters who seem to have a absolute hard-on for certain body builders and atheletes.. Get a room, seriously..

everything in that quote describes Sergio...

The fact of the matter is we have a bunch of guys claiming how "manly" they are or what "manly" is by posting a bunch of pictures of scantly clad men of "flexing".. In how perfect their bodies are, to flat out worshiping them.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Pretty much this.. It is actually quite "unmanly" of the numerous posters who seem to have a absolute hard-on for certain body builders and atheletes.. Get a room, seriously..

sSubZerOo

everything in that quote describes Sergio...

The fact of the matter is we have a bunch of guys claiming how "manly" they are or what "manly" is by posting a bunch of pictures of scantly clad men of "flexing".. In how perfect their bodies are, to flat out worshiping them.

i do not have the utmost respect for Sergio strictly due to his beautiful form. i respect him for his superb mind, heroics, his service as a police officer,his willpower, his work ethic and his morals.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

everything in that quote describes Sergio...

frannkzappa

The fact of the matter is we have a bunch of guys claiming how "manly" they are or what "manly" is by posting a bunch of pictures of scantly clad men of "flexing".. In how perfect their bodies are, to flat out worshiping them.

i do not have the utmost respect for Sergio due to his beautiful form. i respect him for his superb mind, heroics, his service as a police officer,his willpower, his work ethic and his morals.

Mr. Frank.. Can you please read this line

" you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement"

You posted that... Sounds like some one is in denial.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

The fact of the matter is we have a bunch of guys claiming how "manly" they are or what "manly" is by posting a bunch of pictures of scantly clad men of "flexing".. In how perfect their bodies are, to flat out worshiping them.

sSubZerOo

i do not have the utmost respect for Sergio due to his beautiful form. i respect him for his superb mind, heroics, his service as a police officer,his willpower, his work ethic and his morals.

Mr. Frank.. Can you please read this line

" you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement"

You posted that... Sounds like some one is in denial.

that doesn't contradict anything i said.

just because he is that doesn't mean the other things i mentioned don't apply.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

i do not have the utmost respect for Sergio due to his beautiful form. i respect him for his superb mind, heroics, his service as a police officer,his willpower, his work ethic and his morals.

frannkzappa

Mr. Frank.. Can you please read this line

" you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement"

You posted that... Sounds like some one is in denial.

that doesn't contradict anything i said.

just because he is that doesn't mean the other things i mentioned don't apply.

YOu just claimed that you didn't respect him for that.. Yet you are the one that is adamantly defending his physique calling it more or less perfection.. Seriously this is the fvcking problem. Yeah so? there many cops, servicemen, fire fighters out there that have done alot in their career, what makes this guy special?. We have people worshipping this sh!t instead of looking up to people like Nelson Mandela.. Ghandi.. Teddy Roosevelt.. Etc etc..

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Mr. Frank.. Can you please read this line

" you have no sense of beauty.

Sergio is the pinnacle of human physical achievement"

You posted that... Sounds like some one is in denial.

sSubZerOo

that doesn't contradict anything i said.

just because he is that doesn't mean the other things i mentioned don't apply.

YOu just claimed that you didn't respect him for that.. Yet you are the one that is adamantly defending his physique calling it more or less perfection.. Seriously this is the fvcking problem. Yeah so? there many cops, servicemen, fire fighters out there that have done alot in their career, what makes this guy special?. We have people worshipping this sh!t instead of looking up to people like Nelson Mandela.. Ghandi.. Teddy Roosevelt.. Etc etc..

i missed the "strictly" in my original post.

i do not think Sergio is the best person who has ever existed. i believe he is the standard others should be based on.

His near perfect physical form, intelligence, work ethic, his general character and him rescuing the entire Cuban weightlifting team from communist cuba.

Real men should be kind, honest and dependable. That's all it takes.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

that doesn't contradict anything i said.

just because he is that doesn't mean the other things i mentioned don't apply.

frannkzappa

YOu just claimed that you didn't respect him for that.. Yet you are the one that is adamantly defending his physique calling it more or less perfection.. Seriously this is the fvcking problem. Yeah so? there many cops, servicemen, fire fighters out there that have done alot in their career, what makes this guy special?. We have people worshipping this sh!t instead of looking up to people like Nelson Mandela.. Ghandi.. Teddy Roosevelt.. Etc etc..

i missed the "strictly" in my original post.

i do not think Sergio is the best person who has ever existed. i believe he is the standard others should be based on.

His near perfect physical form, intelligence, work ethic, his general character and him rescuing the entire Cuban weightlifting team from communist cuba.

:| There is that body worship again, pretty telling how that is the FIRST thing that bring up of attributes.. I am sorry but what? THAT Is basically worshipping him when your making him some how the golden standard.. Yeah and? Ghandi led a peaceful rebellion that knocked back the most powerful world empire during the time preaching peace, ultimately leading to his death.. Martin Luther King Jr. another great example.. Teddy Roosevelt another great example.. But nope this guy some how is the golden standard of what a "real" man is..

It is pretty obvious you have a hard on for this guys physique if this is the first and only example to great men in history.. Hell even modern history... Which I find hilarious.. My point still stands.. We have a bunch of guys posting scantly clad men and talking about their muscles while claiming themselves and they are manly.. Because nothing screams "manly" then getting in a speedo and posing for a beauty pagent.

Frank wishes he could have had Sergio's babies.