Bill O'Reilly : "Michael Jackson is NO black icon!"

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

I don't think O'Reilly's opinion that MJ is not a Black Icon has anything to do with him being a racist or anything to do with race period. He feels that way because of MJ's controversial life and the fact that in recent years people have generally seen him as wacko jacko more than any of the positive things but when he died that quickly changed.

Bill O'Rielly is not racist but I admit that he, being a white man, should not be determining who is a Black Icon for the Black community.

MoonMarvel

Well thanks, although I came in a little late...I have a feeling most people already said their piece

I too like O'Reilly, I don't agree with everything he says, but than I don't agree with everything anybody says. That's called thinking for yourself.

He said Michael Jackson was an amazing performer, but like Elvis, he shouldn't be made into a saint, or someone a parent would point to and say,

"Son, I want you to turn out just like Michael Jackson."

That was Bill O'Reilly's point.

No one was a better "performer" than Jackson. I'm a hard rock fan, but I think most everyone can at least appreciate Thriller. But I am with O'Rielly

on this. If my son said, "Dad, I like sleeping with little boys" I'd be most dissapointed............to say the least!

I too like O'Reilly, I don't agree with everything he says, but than I don't agree with everything anybody says. That's called thinking for yourself.

He said Michael Jackson was an amazing performer, but like Elvis, he shouldn't be made into a saint, or someone a parent would point to and say,

"Son, I want you to turn out just like Michael Jackson."

That was Bill O'Reilly's point.

No one was a better "performer" than Jackson. I'm a hard rock fan, but I think most everyone can at least appreciate Thriller. But I am with O'Rielly

on this. If my son said, "Dad, I like sleeping with little boys" I'd be most dissapointed............to say the least!

eatdrums

Why is it ok to say black icon and not ok to say white icon. Think about it. Seems pretty unfair to me.

Is iconship in general only allowable for black people? And, is it a requirement that we just worship the black icon no matter what, even forgetting about their obvious flaws? Is there a chance we will be shot or just censored were we to criticize black icons?

[QUOTE="tomo90"]

The very concept of a 'icon' is subjective. An icon to someone may not be to someone else. Bill O'Reilly is a moron to make such a broad sweeping statement like that. Who gives what Bill O'Reilly thinks?

Just like to point out that I'm British, while I'm aware of Bill O'Reilly as a political commentator I've never really seen any of his work, so I have no vendetta againest him. If anyone had said a broad sweeping statement like that I'd consider them a moron. :)tomo90

[QUOTE="eatdrums"]

I too like O'Reilly, I don't agree with everything he says, but than I don't agree with everything anybody says. That's called thinking for yourself.

He said Michael Jackson was an amazing performer, but like Elvis, he shouldn't be made into a saint, or someone a parent would point to and say,

"Son, I want you to turn out just like Michael Jackson."

That was Bill O'Reilly's point.

No one was a better "performer" than Jackson. I'm a hard rock fan, but I think most everyone can at least appreciate Thriller. But I am with O'Rielly

on this. If my son said, "Dad, I like sleeping with little boys" I'd be most dissapointed............to say the least!

Toriko42

He's not talking about his achievements, he's talking about how messed up of a person he was. If a serial killer gave away a large amount of money to charity, that still doesn't take away how bad of a PERSON he was....

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="Acemaster27"]I sort of agree with those hatemongers in this case. MJ was a lot of things, but he was also much to weird to be considered a black icon. Before the 90s he could have been, but not anymore.Toriko42

Oh I get it. Anyone who has a different opinion than you is a "hatemonger". Makes perfect sense!

Why? Because it fits in with you're agenda? Makes perfect sense!

[QUOTE="Toriko42"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

Oh I get it. Anyone who has a different opinion than you is a "hatemonger". Makes perfect sense!

Ace_WondersX

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"][QUOTE="Toriko42"] Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh define the term closet racist trix5817

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"] Bill O'Reilly might be a closet racist, but Limbaugh is an open racist. It isn't hard to find proof of his prejudice.LJS9502_basic

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

but observations are based on your own perception and generally observations lead to some kind of conclusion thus some form of a judgement is made

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

Lindsosaurus

but observations are based on your own perception and generally observations lead to some kind of conclusion thus some form of a judgement is made

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Er I don't prejudge people. The most I do is make observations about them. But that is not judging them.

LJS9502_basic

but observations are based on your own perception and generally observations lead to some kind of conclusion thus some form of a judgement is made

yes but not always...I meant to put CAN BE instead of are in front of the perception part. My point is that observations are not always pure and cannot always be seperated out from your personal interpretations of another persons behavior that are more subjective than objective. Plus it is hard to not make some kind of assumption about the person based on your observations because it is human nature to do so

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

but observations are based on your own perception and generally observations lead to some kind of conclusion thus some form of a judgement is made

Lindsosaurus

yes but not always...I meant to put CAN BE instead of are in front of the perception part. My point is that observations are not always pure and cannot always be seperated out from your personal interpretations of another persons behavior that are more subjective than objective. Plus it is hard to not make some kind of assumption about the person based on your observations because it is human nature to do so

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="Ace_WondersX"] Bill O'Reilly might be a closet racist, but Limbaugh is an open racist. It isn't hard to find proof of his prejudice.LJS9502_basic

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

Yes, you do, but you just don't realize it.:)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

Prejudice and racism are not one in the same. You can be prejudice, but not racist, but you can be racist and prejudice...

Every single person in the world is prejudice. Everyone pre-judges people...it's human nature...

trix5817

Yes, you do, but you just don't realize it.:)

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No. If you see someone in a metal Tshirt that is not based on my perception to conclude it's possible he likes metal but an ability to gather facts ala Sherlock Holmes. Observations are just that. If I know you and see that you are always late I can conclude that it would be rare indeed to see you arrive on time. That is based on observing a pattern of behavior. Observations are made on the behavior of the individual. Perception allows that I am assigning the behavior when I am not.

LJS9502_basic

yes but not always...I meant to put CAN BE instead of are in front of the perception part. My point is that observations are not always pure and cannot always be seperated out from your personal interpretations of another persons behavior that are more subjective than objective. Plus it is hard to not make some kind of assumption about the person based on your observations because it is human nature to do so

Well I can't argue against how you are personally, but in general people tend to make assumptions and judgements and that isnt necessarily a bad thing if it isn't misused because judgements can be adaptive in that they help a person to predict someone else's actions and also inform how he/she personally should act/react

Do you know what Grinds my Gears??? Billy O'Reilly :P

Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.UT_Wrestler

Why is it ok to say black icon and not ok to say white icon. Think about it. Seems pretty unfair to me.

Is iconship in general only allowable for black people? And, is it a requirement that we just worship the black icon no matter what, even forgetting about their obvious flaws? Is there a chance we will be shot or just censored were we to criticize black icons?

pseudodog07

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.nintendo-4life

Do you have evidence of this? Because I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that MLK had more to do with Obama being president than MJ...

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.nintendo-4life

AMAN!!!

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.xxxAdvocatexxx

AMAN!!!

I don't deny he is an icon but don't you think you are overestimating his influence a bit?

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.Lindsosaurus

Do you have evidence of this? Because I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that MLK had more to do with Obama being president than MJ...

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] ... You've got to be kidding me :| The president of the united states is only there because of Michael Jackson. Yes he was only a musician. But his music touched so much that it really has broken down a lot of barriers. If that's not an icon, then what is?nintendo-4life

Do you have evidence of this? Because I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that MLK had more to do with Obama being president than MJ...

Right...Well, all I am saying is that my family has always been VERY active in advocating for civil rights and my given field of study has required me to take several different classes on diversity and social injustices etc in both undergad and grad school, and not once in any discussions did MJ come up

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] ... You've got to be kidding me :| The president of the united states is only there because of Michael Jackson. Yes he was only a musician. But his music touched so much that it really has broken down a lot of barriers. If that's not an icon, then what is?Lindsosaurus

AMAN!!!

I don't deny he is an icon but don't you think you are overestimating his influence a bit?

Not at all...

I'm sorry but you don't see a bunch of inmates re-enact a music video for every dead artist. Stop down playing his influence. Everyone knows his music changed the word.

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

AMAN!!!

xxxAdvocatexxx

I don't deny he is an icon but don't you think you are overestimating his influence a bit?

Not at all...

I'm sorry but you don't see a bunch of inmates re-enact a music video for every dead artist. Stop down playing his influence. Everyone knows his music changed the word.

I thought this was about him being a black icon...

He is no doubt a musical icon though.

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

AMAN!!!

xxxAdvocatexxx

I don't deny he is an icon but don't you think you are overestimating his influence a bit?

Not at all...

I'm sorry but you don't see a bunch of inmates re-enact a music video for every dead artist. Stop down playing his influence. Everyone knows his music changed the word.

inmates doing the thriller dance does not = electing a Black president. He had influence but you are definitely exaggerating it

I thought this was about him being a black icon...

He is no doubt a musical icon though.

phillo99

yes!

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.nintendo-4life

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

I don't deny he is an icon but don't you think you are overestimating his influence a bit?

Lindsosaurus

Not at all...

I'm sorry but you don't see a bunch of inmates re-enact a music video for every dead artist. Stop down playing his influence. Everyone knows his music changed the word.

inmates doing the thriller dance does not = electing a Black president. He had influence but you are definitely exaggerating it

Well have you ever thought Obama was a Michael Jackson fan. Just because he is president does that mean he can't participate?

[QUOTE="phillo99"]

I thought this was about him being a black icon...

He is no doubt a musical icon though.

Lindsosaurus

yes!

Well michael Jackson is black... so i guess that means he is a black icon. He makes other black guys want to sing and dance like him.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

Not at all...

I'm sorry but you don't see a bunch of inmates re-enact a music video for every dead artist. Stop down playing his influence. Everyone knows his music changed the word.

xxxAdvocatexxx

inmates doing the thriller dance does not = electing a Black president. He had influence but you are definitely exaggerating it

Well have you ever thought Obama was a Michael Jackson fan. Just because he is president does that mean he can't participate?

completely irrelevant to the issue at hand

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]Michael Jackson was a great performer, but there was very little else about him that was "great", which was the point O'Reilly was trying to make.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] ... You've got to be kidding me :| The president of the united states is only there because of Michael Jackson. Yes he was only a musician. But his music touched so much that it really has broken down a lot of barriers. If that's not an icon, then what is?nintendo-4life

[QUOTE="xxxAdvocatexxx"]

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

inmates doing the thriller dance does not = electing a Black president. He had influence but you are definitely exaggerating it

Lindsosaurus

Well have you ever thought Obama was a Michael Jackson fan. Just because he is president does that mean he can't participate?

completely irrelevant to the issue at hand

STOP going in circles your making me confused....:x LMAO

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I don't think that is accurate at all.:|

LJS9502_basic

I do think Oprah Had a role in obama's election.....

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I don't think that is accurate at all.:|

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] ... You've got to be kidding me :| The president of the united states is only there because of Michael Jackson. Yes he was only a musician. But his music touched so much that it really has broken down a lot of barriers. If that's not an icon, then what is?nintendo-4life

Definitely does not make it a fact and it is even less credible if she is affiliated with DC... Makes me think of this

Im not saying he didnt help the process along but saying he (a person who despite his achievements was known as wacko jacko before he died) is the reason a black man is president is not only wrong but it's taking away credit from the great people who truly deserve it

Dude, MJ broke the barriers between blacks and whites, do you think only black people voted for obama? :|nintendo-4life

Hello

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] Did you watch the memorial? A women from the government (forgot who she was exactly) explicitly stated that MJ had enough influence to make blacks participate politically in america. I'm sorry but it's accurate enough.nintendo-4life

No, he alone did not break the barrier...wouldnt it be nice if it could happen that quickly...it is something that has been evolving over years of other great Black people's efforts. He was a minor step in the process if that much.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"] Did you watch the memorial? A women from the government (forgot who she was exactly) explicitly stated that MJ had enough influence to make blacks participate politically in america. I'm sorry but it's accurate enough.nintendo-4life

Dude, MJ broke the barriers between blacks and whites, do you think only black people voted for obama? :|nintendo-4life

Stop the music DJ.... what does MJ have to do with Obama's relationship with the African American community. Granted MJ probably has some fans that are Obama Fans. But i doubt his music made people vote democratic this past election.

I think this speaks to my point. MJ is not listed

I'm sure this has already been raised in this thread, but I don't think you can call somebody a 'black icon' who persistently tried to make himself not appear typically 'black', due the way he changed the shape of his nose and so on.MetalGear_Ninty

you should read the whole thread.

[QUOTE="nintendo-4life"]Dude, MJ broke the barriers between blacks and whites, do you think only black people voted for obama? :|LikeHaterade

Hello

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]I'm sure this has already been raised in this thread, but I don't think you can call somebody a 'black icon' who persistently tried to make himself not appear typically 'black', due the way he changed the shape of his nose and so on.xxxAdvocatexxx

you should read the whole thread.