British police arrest 6 men for burning Quran

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]Its down to this, we have different point of views about freedom. You consider trolling others part of freedom, I see it wrong, simple as that, which I'm free to do.toast_burner

and if freedom means that anyone would be able to express their views no matter how wrong, evil, and offensive they are, then I would rather live in a country with limited freedom.

I've never criticized American's rights......even if I'm offended by what someone would do/say...I don't want to curtail their freedom to do so.LJS9502_basic

I didn't mean you, but they are quite a few here. You are one of the few I see stick to your convictions.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] So you are for limited freedom....if any? Limited freedom is not freedom. As long as violence is not part of a protest....it's should be allowed. If violent reactions occurs because of it.....they should be arrested for reacting violently.LJS9502_basic

and if freedom means that anyone would be able to express their views no matter how wrong, evil, and offensive they are, then I would rather live in a country with limited freedom.

He is clearly trying to troll and incite violence by disagreeing with us, hence the police must do something about it.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Shocking I know.. I just find it utterly ridiculous that people think that liberty when it comes to protesting to be curbed by the uncivilized illegal reaction of another group.. If its any one who should be arrested it should be the people who are reacting.. They are fully free to protest back against it, instead they become violent.. And their solution is to curb free speech in general :|, they should read 1984.. That society was real "safe" in keeping public safety above personal liberty.

sSubZerOo

Sorry, in the UK protests that can lead to rioting or other forms of violence is forbidden, you need to stop putting Americas way onto other countries, such as the protests outside of the mosque in London. KKK and nazis are also all banned from the UK regardless of country because they believe all they will do is come to incite others. For people who like to criticize Americas rights on a daily basis you guys sure jump ship and use America's example when it suits you.

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

You really love to read stuff into others posts that they didn't say.

worlock77

This may come as a frightening shock to you but the world isn't as black and white as you'd like it to be. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy here. Personally I do not care who gets offended over what, but neither am I going to presume to state what laws other countries should or should not have.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I've never criticized American's rights......even if I'm offended by what someone would do/say...I don't want to curtail their freedom to do so.Espada12

I didn't mean, but they are quite a few here. You are one of the few I see stick to your convictions.

In practice the countries government always does.. its why the KKK still has the right to march even though we dislike them extremely..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Sorry, in the UK protests that can lead to rioting or other forms of violence is forbidden, you need to stop putting Americas way onto other countries, such as the protests outside of the mosque in London. KKK and nazis are also all banned from the UK regardless of country because they believe all they will do is come to incite others. For people who like to criticize Americas rights on a daily basis you guys sure jump ship and use America's example when it suits you.

toast_burner

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

.. ... What are you talking about? No one has the right to riot..

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

sSubZerOo

It's happening due to mass immigration and low birth rates. The latter can be curbed and the former cannot, though nothing will be done about the latter. People maybe racist but at least they cannot operate openly under the law like in the US.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You're either against offending others or not. Which would it be then?LJS9502_basic

This may come as a frightening shock to you but the world isn't as black and white as you'd like it to be. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy here. Personally I do not care who gets offended over what, but neither am I going to presume to state what laws other countries should or should not have.

I wasn't targeting you particularly but rather making a general statement. If I'm iming a statement at any specific user I'll mention their name.

Ok I understand this. But in the past 10 years or so, it seems that terrorism is not going anywhere, which implies that we have been doing it wrong. Maybe its time to try something else?GazaAli

Ok I understand this. But in the past 10 years or so, it seems that terrorism is not going anywhere, which implies that we have been doing it wrong. Maybe its time to try something else?GazaAli

Your exactly RIGHT.. We can start by getting out of the Middle East.. Not curbing our societies ideals to the demands of extremists..

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

Espada12

It's happening due to mass immigration and low birth rates. The latter can be curbed and the former cannot, though nothing will be done about the latter. People maybe racist but at least they cannot operate openly under the law like in the US.

Actually its happening quite openly with things like Football (soccer) in the region.. The point being is you "banning" it doesn't make it disappear..

@LJS9502_basic in fact yes I'm with limited freedom. Looking at myself, I would destroy myself if I lived with an unlimited freedom. I know myself the best, and I know that unlimited freedom would totally screw me up.GazaAli

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]@LJS9502_basic in fact yes I'm with limited freedom. Looking at myself, I would destroy myself if I lived with an unlimited freedom. I know myself the best, and I know that unlimited freedom would totally screw me up.LJS9502_basic

Well technically speaking we all have sacrificed certain freedoms for society.. Meaning I can't go over and kill you to take your land freely.

The mosque is not being built for any other reason than to incite anger and hatred from Americans

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]@LJS9502_basic in fact yes I'm with limited freedom. Looking at myself, I would destroy myself if I lived with an unlimited freedom. I know myself the best, and I know that unlimited freedom would totally screw me up.sSubZerOo

Well technically speaking we all have sacrificed certain freedoms for society.. Meaning I can't go over and kill you to take your land freely.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

sSubZerOo

.. ... What are you talking about? No one has the right to riot..

Not much.

These people were trying to cause violence and they got stopped before anything happened.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Ok I understand this. But in the past 10 years or so, it seems that terrorism is not going anywhere, which implies that we have been doing it wrong. Maybe its time to try something else?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Which is ironic really when both the UK and a good portion of Europe have a great streak of racism and xenophobia as of late.. Clearly your "bans" arn't working.

sSubZerOo

It's happening due to mass immigration and low birth rates. The latter can be curbed and the former cannot, though nothing will be done about the latter. People maybe racist but at least they cannot operate openly under the law like in the US.

Actually its happening quite openly with things like Football (soccer) in the region.. The point being is you "banning" it doesn't make it disappear..

People who do that at football stadiums get banned. I remember the entire Juventus crowd being removed and everyone being banned because of racism.

http://fourfourtwo.com/news/italy/46651/default.aspx

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]Ok I understand this. But in the past 10 years or so, it seems that terrorism is not going anywhere, which implies that we have been doing it wrong. Maybe its time to try something else?GazaAli

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Limited freedom isn't freedom though.....LJS9502_basic

Well technically speaking we all have sacrificed certain freedoms for society.. Meaning I can't go over and kill you to take your land freely.

Let me make this clear though, I'm all for freedoms as long as you don't use it as an excuse to provoke or incite others to a level that it can lead to violence or other action being taken. Personally I think my country could do with more freedom, but I do believe countries in Europe have a good middle ground.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Well technically speaking we all have sacrificed certain freedoms for society.. Meaning I can't go over and kill you to take your land freely.

GazaAli

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]

lets not get jumpy and take things out of context. All I'm saying that rather complaining about the consequences, you can prevent the original incident. Get it? For example, when Muslims got all offended because of Denmark and those pictures, I was frustrated because of Muslims rioting like idiots and some of them making death threats...etc and because of Denmark insulting a bunch of people for no apparent reason.

GazaAli

I may be late to the party, but that is an individual choice. I would not, though I don't believe I should impose my will on others. People should be free to get their messages out and exchange ideas. Those ideas can be rejected by the masses however.

There are so many laws it's nearly impossible to go through life without breaking one. Is that what society intended?

Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.GazaAli

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Well technically speaking we all have sacrificed certain freedoms for society.. Meaning I can't go over and kill you to take your land freely.

GazaAli

Just because we don't live freely doesn't mean it's not an ideal worth striving for. I get what you're saying though, and the answer is you should be free up to the point that you start infringing on the freedom of others.

That isn't something that they should be arrested for. "We don't like what you did even though you didn't do anything that will harm another person, therefore I will use physical force to punish you." That sounds about right.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.LJS9502_basic

I know I'm coming late to the party so to speak but I just wanted to say something that may put things a little more in perspective. Being an Anthropology major at Purdue University I may be able to shed some insight in two simple sentences. Burning a Quran to Muslims is like if Jesus Christ himself was burned. They believe Jesus was the spoken word of god, while the Quran is god's physical gift we can all have.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.GazaAli

I know I'm coming late to the party so to speak but I just wanted to say something that may put things a little more in perspective. Being an Anthropology major at Purdue University I may be able to shed some insight in two simple sentences. Burning a Quran to Muslims is like if Jesus Christ himself was burned. They believe Jesus was the spoken word of god, while the Quran is god's physical gift we can all have.

xXDante666Xx

I know I'm coming late to the party so to speak but I just wanted to say something that may put things a little more in perspective. Being an Anthropology major at Purdue University I may be able to shed some insight in two simple sentences. Burning a Quran to Muslims is like if Jesus Christ himself was burned. They believe Jesus was the spoken word of god, while the Quran is god's physical gift we can all have.

xXDante666Xx

Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.GazaAli

History has shown that people who live in tough conditions don't always make the best choices. I believe (but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that Hamas gaining power was due to rage voting (emotions taking over senses due to poor living conditions). Same thing happened in Germany during the 1930s.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.psychobrew

History has shown that people who live in tough conditions don't always make the best choices. I believe (but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that Hamas gaining power was due to rage voting (emotions taking over senses due to poor living conditions). Same thing happened in Germany during the 1930s.

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Also, democracy and freedom are not for everyone, lets face it. People here in 2005 were given the chance to elect freely and they chose Hamas. After that, they suffered and continue to suffer because of those elections. I tell people here "You did not deserve to elect, because you were not responsible enough to choose wisely". If you abused your freedom, if you abused democracy then you lose you right in them automatically. This is how I see it and I don't expect people to see it this way of course.GazaAli

History has shown that people who live in tough conditions don't always make the best choices. I believe (but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that Hamas gaining power was due to rage voting (emotions taking over senses due to poor living conditions). Same thing happened in Germany during the 1930s.

So you would rather be ruled by a king than vote for your own leaders?

In any case, in a democracy (at least in the US) there are multiple independent branches of government that should help keep voter mistake from going too far. Also, elections are spread out so not everybody is replaced at once, allowing a cool off period to help clear your head.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] Man I didn't not understand, you post makes no since :lol:GazaAli