If you don't, you live in a cave!Theokhoth, I feel like you're too biased, which leads to your rants. You really need to realize that not everyone supportsyour ideas.
ROFLCOPTER603
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Homeschooling is the problem, those are the kids who become intolerant, and incapable of socializing.
[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Thank the Lord almighty that I'm graduating next year and that my nieces and nephews do not live in Oakland. TheokhothIndeed; God wouldn't want kids to be good and understanding of different people. Who is saying this? We're saying it doesn't belong in schools. It belongs in homes.
Indeed. Let's spend time on teaching sexual orientation and gender issue rather than math, science, English....it's not like we lag in these important disciplines. Oh wait.....This is outrageous; next thing you know they'll be indoctrinating children to believe that the Earth is a sphere and that it orbits the sun. :(
GabuEx
[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] I see. So we shouldn't tell kids to not be mean to other people based on race, sex, gender, who their parents are, what country they're from, what our history is with these demographics, or anything else related to society. Because that's how you believe it should be.Theokhoth
Honestly I think that's the parents job to do that. Government can't take the wheel on things such as that because it falls under freedom of speech. Besides kinder-gardeners have little to no malice to each other based of skin color or sexuality (assuming they can even grasp those concepts). Putting them in the same environment, ie school is really the best way for them to learn to accept each other.
If children do not learn to be decent members of society, then it goes beyond "freedom of speech" and into "hate crime" territory. And children most certainly do develop stereotypes and prejudices based on skin color and sexuality, even if they can't understand such things. The idea that they do not is a myth.Hopefully "parents" will teach their kids to be decent members of society. Whether or not you believe the government should teach children this is a non-issue, they simple can't because it infringes on the rights of the people.
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Thank the Lord almighty that I'm graduating next year and that my nieces and nephews do not live in Oakland. ChuteboxIndeed; God wouldn't want kids to be good and understanding of different people. Who is saying this? We're saying it doesn't belong in schools. It belongs in homes. Education belongs in schools.
[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]If I thought everyone supported my ideas, I wouldn't rant.Theokhoth, I feel like you're too biased, which leads to your rants. You really need to realize that not everyone supportsyour ideas.
Theokhoth
Well obviously. But you can at least be constructive. Don't hate, debate.
[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Thank the Lord almighty that I'm graduating next year and that my nieces and nephews do not live in Oakland. TheokhothIndeed; God wouldn't want kids to be good and understanding of different people. You sure do know how to grind my gears. :x I could make 1000 different comments but i would get modded because people would find those comments offensive. I'll just say that you don't know what side God is on.
If children do not learn to be decent members of society, then it goes beyond "freedom of speech" and into "hate crime" territory. And children most certainly do develop stereotypes and prejudices based on skin color and sexuality, even if they can't understand such things. The idea that they do not is a myth.[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"]
Honestly I think that's the parents job to do that. Government can't take the wheel on things such as that because it falls under freedom of speech. Besides kinder-gardeners have little to no malice to each other based of skin color or sexuality (assuming they can even grasp those concepts). Putting them in the same environment, ie school is really the best way for them to learn to accept each other.
BATTOSAI76
Hopefully "parents" will teach their kids to be decent members of society. Whether or not you believe the government should teach children this is a non-issue, they simple can't because it infringes on the rights of the people.
By that logic, all education infringes on the rights of the people. Education is (or should be) immune to what the parents want. Many parents don't want their kids learning about evolution; too f***ing bad, evolution is a fact of life and you don't get to decide whether they learn it or not.[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Thank the Lord almighty that I'm graduating next year and that my nieces and nephews do not live in Oakland. bbkkristianIndeed; God wouldn't want kids to be good and understanding of different people. You sure do know how to grind my gears. :x I could make 1000 different comments but i would get modded because people would find those comments offensive. I'll just say that you don't know what side God is on. If it's the ignorant side, then God can go to hell.
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]Indeed. Let's spend time on teaching sexual orientation and gender issue rather than math, science, English....it's not like we lag in these important disciplines. Oh wait..... An understanding of real life issues are the best education.This is outrageous; next thing you know they'll be indoctrinating children to believe that the Earth is a sphere and that it orbits the sun. :(
LJS9502_basic
It is hard to tell now a days with these teens running around with eye liner and "girl" pants. Look like prancing ponysdarkfox101
I lol'd.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]Indeed. Let's spend time on teaching sexual orientation and gender issue rather than math, science, English....it's not like we lag in these important disciplines. Oh wait..... An understanding of real life issues are the best education. Then teach politics and history. It really isn't necessary to keep forcing personal differences between people. There is no way that prepares someone for a career/job after school. It's unnecessary. It's a waste of tax dollars. And I'm glad I don't live in California. The more I hear of that state the better it is that I no longer live there.This is outrageous; next thing you know they'll be indoctrinating children to believe that the Earth is a sphere and that it orbits the sun. :(
DiIIasDonuts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Education belongs in schools.TheokhothYeah education to make individuals productive members of society. This isn't necessary education. And guess what....you can have all the cIasses you want...that doesn't make people tolerant. Learning basic decency doesn't make you a productive member of society?What about the decency of not forcing other people to have to study the individuals personal business? I don't consider it basic decency to require people to study something that in no way benefits them. I don't consider it basic decency to waste tax payer money on cIasses that don't advance the education system. Should we drop math, science, history, PE, or English to make room for a niche subject that affects the smallest percentage of people? Perhaps we should next teach children not to make fun of obese people. Or unattractive people.
Children learn tolerance from their family. They aren't going to learn it by being forced to attend cIasses.
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Yeah education to make individuals productive members of society. This isn't necessary education. And guess what....you can have all the cIasses you want...that doesn't make people tolerant.LJS9502_basicLearning basic decency doesn't make you a productive member of society?What about the decency of not forcing other people to have to study the individuals personal business? I don't consider it basic decency to require people to study something that in no way benefits them. I don't consider it basic decency to waste tax payer money on cIasses that don't advance the education system. Should we drop math, science, history, PE, or English to make room for a niche subject that affects the smallest percentage of people? Perhaps we should next teach children not to make fun of obese people. Or unattractive people. Indeed we should teach children these things. A person cannot be a productive member of society if he never learned how to respect the diverse people within that society. And nobody is saying we should get rid of anything in favor of these things. Such red herrings you come up with. Nothing has to go for these basic manners to be taught to children, and nobody is arguing that they should be.
[QUOTE="DiIIasDonuts"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Indeed. Let's spend time on teaching sexual orientation and gender issue rather than math, science, English....it's not like we lag in these important disciplines. Oh wait.....LJS9502_basicAn understanding of real life issues are the best education. Then teach politics and history. It really isn't necessary to keep forcing personal differences between people. There is no way that prepares someone for a career/job after school. It's unnecessary. It's a waste of tax dollars. And I'm glad I don't live in California. The more I hear of that state the better it is that I no longer live there. That's what I plan on doing, unfortunately most historic events don't make people think why it matters, most math problems don't make most people become engineers, and most book assignments, don't make people writers. You wouldn't believe how many people come out of high school knowing how to read, write, and do basic math, without having a clue about this close minded set of skills. Teaching kids about sociological problems, is far more important than calculus or physics.
Then teach politics and history. It really isn't necessary to keep forcing personal differences between people. There is no way that prepares someone for a career/job after school. It's unnecessary. It's a waste of tax dollars. And I'm glad I don't live in California. The more I hear of that state the better it is that I no longer live there. That's what I plan on doing, unfortunately most historic events don't make people think why it matters, most math problems don't make most people become engineers, and most book assignments, don't make people writers. You wouldn't believe how many people come out of high school knowing how to read, write, and do basic math, without having a clue about this close minded set of skills. Teaching kids about sociological problems, is far more important than calculus or physics.Oh I'm sure. While he's unemployed and on welfare...he can talk philosophically that not every one is identical.:|[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="DiIIasDonuts"] An understanding of real life issues are the best education.DiIIasDonuts
"gender is not inherently nor solely connected to one's physical anatomy." Further, gender is a "complex interrelationship between (physical traits) and one's internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither as well as one's outward presentations and behaviors related to that perception."whipassmt/\ are you ****ing serious?
QUOTE="whipassmt"]"gender is not inherently nor solely connected to one's physical anatomy." Further, gender is a "complex interrelationship between (physical traits) and one's internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither as well as one's outward presentations and behaviors related to that perception."Overlord93/\ are you ****ing serious?
That's what I was thinking. Some people are crazy!
By that logic, all education infringes on the rights of the people. Education is (or should be) immune to what the parents want. Many parents don't want their kids learning about evolution; too f***ing bad, evolution is a fact of life and you don't get to decide whether they learn it or not.Theokhoth
Poor comparison. Evolution is near-universally agreed upon by relevant members in the scientific community. Contrast that with how the American Psychiatric Association still considers "Gender Identity Disorder" a valid diagnosis. One "fact of life" is accepted in academic circles, while the other is still contentious.
Should we drop math, science, history, PE, or English to make room for a niche subject that affects the smallest percentage of people?
LJS
Children should be taught to honor and respect people whose names begin with "Pal" and end with "tas." We are diverse group of people with a rich culture and history, us Pal-tas', and your kids damn well better learn about us and respect us.
[QUOTE="LJS"]
Should we drop math, science, history, PE, or English to make room for a niche subject that affects the smallest percentage of people?
Palantas
Children should be taught to honor and respect people whose names begin with "Pal" and end with "tas." We arediverse group of people with a rich culture and history, us Pal-tas', and your kids damn well better learn about us and respect us.
Might as well teach that in school as well. Let's drop required classes and spend all day teaching children about every single different category of people we can think of.[QUOTE="DiIIasDonuts"]That's what I plan on doing, unfortunately most historic events don't make people think why it matters, most math problems don't make most people become engineers, and most book assignments, don't make people writers. You wouldn't believe how many people come out of high school knowing how to read, write, and do basic math, without having a clue about this close minded set of skills. Teaching kids about sociological problems, is far more important than calculus or physics.Oh I'm sure. While he's unemployed and on welfare...he can talk philosophically that not every one is identical.:| I work with troubled kids on a daily basis, and if there is one thing that could change theses kids world its learning how to help those in need, not judging people, and not creating problems for themselves. Physics and calculus are necessary, but if we continue to reward the good, smart, and rich, and just toss aside the rest while they fail the classes they 'need' to graduate, there will always be a societal gap, and there will always be hatred. Giving kids a global and cultural perspective is far from useless.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Then teach politics and history. It really isn't necessary to keep forcing personal differences between people. There is no way that prepares someone for a career/job after school. It's unnecessary. It's a waste of tax dollars. And I'm glad I don't live in California. The more I hear of that state the better it is that I no longer live there.LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="DiIIasDonuts"] That's what I plan on doing, unfortunately most historic events don't make people think why it matters, most math problems don't make most people become engineers, and most book assignments, don't make people writers. You wouldn't believe how many people come out of high school knowing how to read, write, and do basic math, without having a clue about this close minded set of skills. Teaching kids about sociological problems, is far more important than calculus or physics.Oh I'm sure. While he's unemployed and on welfare...he can talk philosophically that not every one is identical.:| I work with troubled kids on a daily basis, and if there is one thing that could change theses kids world its learning how to help those in need, not judging people, and not creating problems for themselves. Physics and calculus are necessary, but if we continue to reward the good, smart, and rich, and just toss aside the rest while they fail the classes they 'need' to graduate, there will always be a societal gap, and there will always be hatred. Giving kids a global and cultural perspective is far from useless.So how about spending education money helping those who need more help in the required courses and less money on extraneous courses that don't teach anything. No one wants to sit through those courses....all they do is point out differences in individuals that children in kindergarten wouldn't even be aware of yet. And if we have learned anything about "differences"...it's that pointing them out creates a divide. NOT acceptance.DiIIasDonuts
Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.PannicAtack
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.ROFLCOPTER603
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
And why shouldn't kids be taught to accept transsexuals?[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.ROFLCOPTER603
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
I would pull my kid out of it, if i had one. Too young to be exposed to this type of thing. If anywhere it should be in high school so my child knows and can decide for him/herself whether to participate in it.[QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.ROFLCOPTER603
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
And who says they are taught it uncritically? In fact teaching them about what gender means and how it is viewed in a society is a better way to form a critical opinion than to stay ignorant about it and accept whatever their prejudiced parents tell them.[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.PannicAtack
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
And why shouldn't kids be taught to accept transsexuals?They're too young (the kindergarteners, anyways). Save sexuality for when they're older.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And if we have learned anything about "differences"...it's that pointing them out creates a divide. NOT acceptance.
kuraimen
That is true and I agree with it but when you live in a culture where that divide already exists it is a more difficult matter.
Yes but children in K-5 don't know anything about transsexuals so they aren't intolerant of them to start with.And why shouldn't kids be taught to accept transsexuals?[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
ROFLCOPTER603
They're too young (the kindergarteners, anyways). Save sexuality for when they're older.
Hm. That might be a good point. I'll have to think about that.And why shouldn't kids be taught to accept transsexuals?[QUOTE="PannicAtack"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
ROFLCOPTER603
They're too young (the kindergarteners, anyways). Save sexuality for when they're older.
Who says they are too young? We already know humans are sexual beings all their lifes and we learn about sexuality in all stages of our development.You know something like this occured back a few decades ago, people actually wanted whites to go to school with blacks! Indoctrination, how dare they impose this tyranny upon us! I'm glad that movement was defeated, I don't want my children going to school with any people of color!
Oh... wait... One day we are going to look back on the gay/lesbian/transgender issue and see it just as silly are the issue with integration. Or womens rights. Or any number of discriminations we have done in the past (Chinese exclusion acts, Japanese internment, Japanese segregation (Gentlemen's Agreement) just to name a few). Will some still oppose the gays? Of course. Some still support segregation (my buddy knows a girl that wants slavery to be reinstated 0_o). Is school the best place to be enforcing social ideals? Maybe not, but people need to be exposed to differing viewpoints.
[QUOTE="I"]
Children should be taught to honor and respect people whose names begin with "Pal" and end with "tas."
LJS9502_basic
Might as well teach that in school as well. Let's drop required ****s and spend all day teaching children about every single different category of people we can think of.
Monumental Moments in Pal-tas History:
As you can see, Pal-tas's are a diverse group of people with many achievements. When I'm done drinking, I will call the ACLU and demand that this curriculum be taught to all children via mandatory Xbox Live ads that play before games.
[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"][QUOTE="PannicAtack"]Gotta love the use of scare words like "indoctrinate" where they don't apply.kuraimen
It does apply. Indoctrinate means"to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically"
These kids are being taught to accept transexuals and their beliefs with no criticism. They have no choice in what they're learning.
And who says they are taught it uncritically? In fact teaching them about what gender means and how it is viewed in a society is a better way to form a critical opinion than to stay ignorant about it and accept whatever their prejudiced parents tell them.They're being taught to not criticize transexuals and to be unconditionally accepting of them. They aren't forming their own opinions. By the way, every teacher teaching this course is biased whereas their parents might not be. You automatically assume that every parent is a homophobic racist. My parents never even talked about this subject until well after I formed my own opinions, and I still think transexuals are weird and disgusting.
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And if we have learned anything about "differences"...it's that pointing them out creates a divide. NOT acceptance.
LJS9502_basic
That is true and I agree with it but when you live in a culture where that divide already exists it is a more difficult matter.
Yes but children in K-5 don't know anything about transsexuals so they aren't intolerant of them to start with. And they shouldn't be so maybe that's why teaching them early that there are differences can prepare them later in life[QUOTE="BATTOSAI76"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] If children do not learn to be decent members of society, then it goes beyond "freedom of speech" and into "hate crime" territory. And children most certainly do develop stereotypes and prejudices based on skin color and sexuality, even if they can't understand such things. The idea that they do not is a myth.Theokhoth
Hopefully "parents" will teach their kids to be decent members of society. Whether or not you believe the government should teach children this is a non-issue, they simple can't because it infringes on the rights of the people.
By that logic, all education infringes on the rights of the people. Education is (or should be) immune to what the parents want. Many parents don't want their kids learning about evolution; too f***ing bad, evolution is a fact of life and you don't get to decide whether they learn it or not.If I had it my way kids would be learning the Bible in school, and not evolution, but I can't say that because it infriges on your kids rights to learn evolution if you choose so. Same with sexuality in school. That's why social and religious issues stay out of the cl@$$ room, and remain in the home.
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