Congressman shouts "Liar" to Pres. Obama during speech to nation

[QUOTE="sammyjenkis898"]You've to to love South Carolina.. No offense Travo. :Pmindstorm

Apparently, others have noticed the influx of comic material from SC as well. o.0

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="fillini"] Read it. I actually agree with a some of the assertions she tries to make. Couldn't access the footnotes, so its sounds like a blog from a lawyer in San Francisco to me. So I have to disagree, all my personal experience and financial reading state other wise, concerning the economic impact of illegals. out of the 12 illegals I know personally NONE have ever paid their taxes. i have asked them if any of their people pay taxes and the say very few. they said ones that do are the families that hae lived her for years. These guys don't do anything period. they may go out every once in a while but there are like 8 or ten guys sharing a 19inch tv in a two or 3 bedroom apartment.

fillini

Well, I linked just the abstract, but if you want to read the entire 58 page analysis, footnotes and all, be my guest.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

Also, a side note, I wouldn't base sweeping generalization off of anecdotal evidence.

Is that like your assertion two weeks about how Social Security is just fine; and then Washington announced the next week no COLA for the next two years. Yeah one of their excuses was the seniors got the stimulus money. $250.

And yes I'll read ALL 58 pages.

And my claim about Social Security being fine a few weeks ago is (not only still correct), but is a claim based on purely empirical evidence.

[QUOTE="Mercenary848"]

He made a fool of himself, but I am glad to see a congressman shout how he feels to the president. Also atleast he didn't throw a shoe.

nocoolnamejim

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="fillini"] Read it. I actually agree with a some of the assertions she tries to make. Couldn't access the footnotes, so its sounds like a blog from a lawyer in San Francisco to me. So I have to disagree, all my personal experience and financial reading state other wise, concerning the economic impact of illegals. out of the 12 illegals I know personally NONE have ever paid their taxes. i have asked them if any of their people pay taxes and the say very few. they said ones that do are the families that hae lived her for years. These guys don't do anything period. they may go out every once in a while but there are like 8 or ten guys sharing a 19inch tv in a two or 3 bedroom apartment.

-Sun_Tzu-

Like the tax code could actually be enforced on illegals.:lol: What nonsense.

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"][QUOTE="Mercenary848"]

He made a fool of himself, but I am glad to see a congressman shout how he feels to the president. Also atleast he didn't throw a shoe.

tycoonmike

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

The concept of Anecdotal evidence is pretty straightforward - evidence that is obtained through purely personal experiences. For example, making the sweeping generalization that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, and basing that on 12 illegals that you know, is a claim that is based on anecdotal evidence.

And my claim about Social Security being fine a few weeks ago is (not only still correct), but is a claim based on purely empirical evidence.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Like the tax code could actually be enforced on illegals.:lol: What nonsense.

fillini

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The concept of Anecdotal evidence is pretty straightforward - evidence that is obtained through purely personal experiences. For example, making the sweeping generalization that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, and basing that on 12 illegals that you know, is a claim that is based on anecdotal evidence.

And my claim about Social Security being fine a few weeks ago is (not only still correct), but is a claim based on purely empirical evidence.

Omni-Slash

Page 5

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]The concept of Anecdotal evidence is pretty straightforward - evidence that is obtained through purely personal experiences. For example, making the sweeping generalization that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, and basing that on 12 illegals that you know, is a claim that is based on anecdotal evidence.

And my claim about Social Security being fine a few weeks ago is (not only still correct), but is a claim based on purely empirical evidence.

-Sun_Tzu-

Page 5

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] One last comment before I slide out, because I've seen the "at least he didn't throw a shoe" comment quite a lot in this thread. There's a bit of a difference between some angry Iraqi journalist over in the middle east throwing a shoe during a speech Bush is giving overseas and a sitting U.S. Congressman interrupting the president and calling him a liar during a national television address to the nation in the halls of Congress.-Sun_Tzu-

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

While I agree that it is a slightly different scenario, the fact remains that the Royal Family has little, if any, bearing on English politics. The family is a figurehead, like the Japanese imperial family. Bearing that in mind, I don't see how insulting the Prime Minister is any different than insulting the President.

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="nocoolnamejim"] One last comment before I slide out, because I've seen the "at least he didn't throw a shoe" comment quite a lot in this thread. There's a bit of a difference between some angry Iraqi journalist over in the middle east throwing a shoe during a speech Bush is giving overseas and a sitting U.S. Congressman interrupting the president and calling him a liar during a national television address to the nation in the halls of Congress.-Sun_Tzu-

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

Uh, yes they do. Most don't because they simply don't make enough income, but those who do make enough do indeed pay income taxes...-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]Illegal Immigrants as a rule don't pay income tax..:|.....to think otherwise is foolish......sure they pay sales taxes....but income tax....no...

kool-aids

Page 5

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

sure they do....Sun_Tzu.....kinda hard to do without a Social Security Number......or did they break laws to illegally obtain SS numbers just to pay their taxes like the outstanding members of society that they are....Omni-Slash

"[S]ome illegal immigrants choose to file taxes and write a check come April 15, using an alternative to the Social Security number offered by the IRS so it can collect income tax from foreign workers."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Uh, yes they do. Most don't because they simply don't make enough income, but those who do make enough do indeed pay income taxes...Omni-Slash

Even though if you read the report sun_tzu linked to, it states, somewhere around page 23, that illegals either don't report their wages or use fraudulent SSNs to therefore file for income tax?

Okay, so I guess the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who file tax returns to the IRS simply do not exist.-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Okay, so I guess the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who file tax returns to the IRS simply do not exist.Omni-Slash

The hundreds of thousands that I mentioned are tax returns that are filed with justaddresses who were notauthorized to work or even to be in the United States

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

tycoonmike

While I agree that it is a slightly different scenario, the fact remains that the Royal Family has little, if any, bearing on English politics. The family is a figurehead, like the Japanese imperial family. Bearing that in mind, I don't see how insulting the Prime Minister is any different than insulting the President.

Actually the Queen of England technically has a veto power, but there would be a nation-wide uproar if she were to use it. Also, she opens and closes Parliament for the legislating season.

Ah, my apologies. I haven't read the paper in a while...the number is close to 6 million, not hundresds of thousands. "The IRS has estimated that of the approximately 130 million individual income tax returns filed each year, about six million are filedled by undocumented workers." Page 24http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

The hundreds of thousands that I mentioned are tax returns that are filed with justaddresses who were notauthorized to work or even to be in the United States

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Uh, yes they do. Most don't because they simply don't make enough income, but those who do make enough do indeed pay income taxes...tycoonmike

Even though if you read the report sun_tzu linked to, it states, somewhere around page 23, that illegals either don't report their wages or use fraudulent SSNs to therefore file for income tax?

That's extremely difficult to do...many native English speakers who have been to college don't understand the intricacies of our SS program, let alone uneducated immigrants.

Illegal immigrants aren't an evil, malevolent force, as so many conservatives presume. They're people who do not have the means to support themselves except by working their asses off. And they boost our economy in the process.

actually that's a guess...in a Harvard Law Review Document pushing an agenda......:D accuracy FTL....

Omni-Slash

Er, no, it's an estimate made by the IRS, cited in a paper.

That's extremely difficult to do...many native English speakers who have been to college don't understand the intricacies of our SS program, let alone uneducated immigrants.

Illegal immigrants aren't an evil, malevolent force, as so many conservatives presume. They're people who do not have the means to support themselves except by working their asses off. And they boost our economy in the process.

Er, no, it's an estimate made by the IRS, cited in a paper.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

Even though similar things happen in other nations across the planet (the UK, for instance) without major censures for the parties involved?

tycoonmike

While I agree that it is a slightly different scenario, the fact remains that the Royal Family has little, if any, bearing on English politics. The family is a figurehead, like the Japanese imperial family. Bearing that in mind, I don't see how insulting the Prime Minister is any different than insulting the President.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Ah, my apologies. I haven't read the paper in a while...the number is close to 6 million, not hundresds of thousands. "The IRS has estimated that of the approximately 130 million individual income tax returns filed each year, about six million are filedled by undocumented workers." Page 24http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.pdf

The hundreds of thousands that I mentioned are tax returns that are filed with justaddresses who were notauthorized to work or even to be in the United States

Omni-Slash

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Er, no, it's an estimate made by the IRS, cited in a paper.

Omni-Slash

It's on page 24 of the paper -Sun_Tzu- linked to:

"The IRS has estimated that of the approximately 130 million individual income tax returns filed each year, about six million are filed by undocumented workers."

With citation and everything. :P

It's on page 24 of the paper -Sun_Tzu- linked to:

"The IRS has estimated that of the approximately 130 million individual income tax returns filed each year, about six million are filed by undocumented workers."

With citation and everything. :P

Again, its the arangement. When the president gives a speech to a joint-session of congress, he is a dinstinguished guest. The Prime Minister is himself a member of the same parliament that those who are shouting at him. Also, the U.S. congress has rules in place that stress civility. Congressmen, when engaged in debate, cannot address who they are debating one-on-one, they have to speak directly to the speaker if in the House or the President of the senate if in the senate. The United States congress is a different animal than most other legislatures.-Sun_Tzu-

I highly doubt that the other legislatures I've named don't have rules in place that stress civility. Yet, that doesn't stop them from acting hostile towards one another, even to the point of blows.

Besides, distinguished guest or not, being the President shouldn't give you the privilege of not having your views questioned. Although I agree that the Senator did so rather brusquely and rudely, to say the least, would we be here if the Senator had questioned Obama in a manner befitting his office? Absolutely not. Indeed, I don't see anyone on here complaining about how a group of senators were grumbling about what Obama said before the Senator in questioned yelled his comment, so is it necessarily the fact that the Senator questioned the President directly, or the fact he used the word "liar?" Once again, I agree calling the President a liar is going rather far, but the facts of the matter are:

1. No matter the arrangement, whether Prime Minister, Chancellor, or President, similar, or even more extreme, things like happen in legislatures all around the world, something I have proven, are are laughed at while this Senator, far from being laughed at, is being disowned by the American people in general.

2. The President, whether he or she be Obama, Clinton, or even Bush, is not exempt from being disagreed with, even if he is a "distinguished guest."

I highly doubt that the other legislatures I've named don't have rules in place that stress civility. Yet, that doesn't stop them from acting hostile towards one another, even to the point of blows.

Besides, distinguished guest or not, being the President shouldn't give you the privilege of not having your views questioned. Although I agree that the Senator did so rather brusquely and rudely, to say the least, would we be here if the Senator had questioned Obama in a manner befitting his office? Absolutely not. Indeed, I don't see anyone on here complaining about how a group of senators were grumbling about what Obama said before the Senator in questioned yelled his comment, so is it necessarily the fact that the Senator questioned the President directly, or the fact he used the word "liar?" Once again, I agree calling the President a liar is going rather far, but the facts of the matter are:

1. No matter the arrangement, whether Prime Minister, Chancellor, or President, similar, or even more extreme, things like happen in legislatures all around the world, something I have proven, are are laughed at while this Senator, far from being laughed at, is being disowned by the American people in general.

2. The President, whether he or she be Obama, Clinton, or even Bush, is not exempt from being disagreed with, even if he is a "distinguished guest."

tycoonmike

Congress has a specific rule that states they cannot call the President a liar. link

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

I highly doubt that the other legislatures I've named don't have rules in place that stress civility. Yet, that doesn't stop them from acting hostile towards one another, even to the point of blows.

Besides, distinguished guest or not, being the President shouldn't give you the privilege of not having your views questioned. Although I agree that the Senator did so rather brusquely and rudely, to say the least, would we be here if the Senator had questioned Obama in a manner befitting his office? Absolutely not. Indeed, I don't see anyone on here complaining about how a group of senators were grumbling about what Obama said before the Senator in questioned yelled his comment, so is it necessarily the fact that the Senator questioned the President directly, or the fact he used the word "liar?" Once again, I agree calling the President a liar is going rather far, but the facts of the matter are:

1. No matter the arrangement, whether Prime Minister, Chancellor, or President, similar, or even more extreme, things like happen in legislatures all around the world, something I have proven, are are laughed at while this Senator, far from being laughed at, is being disowned by the American people in general.

2. The President, whether he or she be Obama, Clinton, or even Bush, is not exempt from being disagreed with, even if he is a "distinguished guest."

tycoonmike

Congress has a specific rule that states they cannot call the President a liar. link

I refer you to the same page:

"However, the Senate rules on decorum and debate do not prohibit personal references to the President. Senate Rule XIX governing decorum and debate is applied only to fellow Senators and "does not extend to the President, the Vice President, or Administration officials and a Senator cannot be called to order under rule XIX for comments or remarks about them..." (Senate Procedure, p. 741)."

Considering that this was a member of the House who made the comment, rules for Senators are a little irrelevant. :P

Good for them I say. We need more balls and less ass kissing.JustPlainLucas

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="Lindsosaurus"]

Congress has a specific rule that states they cannot call the President a liar. link

GabuEx

I refer you to the same page:

"However, the Senate rules on decorum and debate do not prohibit personal references to the President. Senate Rule XIX governing decorum and debate is applied only to fellow Senators and "does not extend to the President, the Vice President, or Administration officials and a Senator cannot be called to order under rule XIX for comments or remarks about them..." (Senate Procedure, p. 741)."

Considering that this was a member of the House who made the comment, rules for Senators are a little irrelevant. :P

Oh, so be it. I retract my statement, then.

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Good for them I say. We need more balls and less ass kissing.duxup

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Good for them I say. We need more balls and less ass kissing.duxup

And even better, the news reported tonight that his opponent in the next election raised 200k overnight for his campaign. Seemingly just because of this outburst. Seems Republicans are their own worst enemy right now...

whatever liberals and conservatives need to leave the white house, we need to reform this country and stop this political playhouse we have now

And even better, the news reported tonight that his opponent in the next election raised 200k overnight for his campaign.

TBoogy

Must've reported it prematurely - he's up to $500k now.

It's not a safe seat, either; Wilson won against the same opponent he has now with only 54% of the vote.

i dont think there is anything wrong with it. if he is lying he is lyingboba707

not gonna read through all the pages of this thread, so hopefully someone has mentioned this:

what if obama IS lying??

not gonna read through all the pages of this thread, so hopefully someone has mentioned this:

what if obama IS lying??

useLOGIC

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Good for them I say. We need more balls and less ass kissing.TBoogy

And even better, the news reported tonight that his opponent in the next election raised 200k overnight for his campaign. Seemingly just because of this outburst. Seems Republicans are their own worst enemy right now...

[QUOTE="useLOGIC"]

not gonna read through all the pages of this thread, so hopefully someone has mentioned this:

what if obama IS lying??

Avian005

Maybe Joe Wilson got paid by the health insurance companies to say "Liar" to the president.Jd1680a

[QUOTE="Jd1680a"]Maybe Joe Wilson got paid by the health insurance companies to say "Liar" to the president.fillini