Do you believe the not guilty verdict for Zimmerman is just? UPDATE: NOT GUILTY

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branketra

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#101 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
Obviously the NSA should release the cellphone conversation rather than relying on what the witness says was said.Ace6301
That might be of some aid.
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#102 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Zimmerman picked a fight, got his head bashed in, then killed a teenage when he realized he was losing. If I realized someone was following me at night of all times, you think I'm going to put on my most polite face, walk up to him and ask him why he's following me? F*ckery. Trayvon felt threatened as he fought back, and he lost his life because Zimmerman was a piss poor fighter.Shottayouth13-
This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence.

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

Not ****ing assualt them.

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#103 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Zimmerman picked a fight, got his head bashed in, then killed a teenage when he realized he was losing. If I realized someone was following me at night of all times, you think I'm going to put on my most polite face, walk up to him and ask him why he's following me? F*ckery. Trayvon felt threatened as he fought back, and he lost his life because Zimmerman was a piss poor fighter.

This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence.

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.
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#104 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence. Commander-Gree
I'm seeing some mixed evidence. Witnesses seem to favour Martins side of things with statements like: "Manalo testified that she saw two people on the ground struggling. After the shooting, Manalo told investigators that she could not identify who they were or their gender. But on the stand Manalo was certain that the bigger of the two people was on top of the smaller-framed person, and that after the shooting, the larger of the two got up." The autopsy seems to favour Zimmerman since there wasn't a lot of physical harm to Martin (beside the gunshot obviously). Though the initial physical interaction would have possibly been something like grabbing at a shirt prompting a reaction. If Manalo's testimony is true then Zimmerman was not in danger at the time and thus it was murder.
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#105 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

I do not think he is guilty.

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Shottayouth13-

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#106 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence. dercoo

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

Not ****ing assualt them.

Well that's you. I'd probably fight. So you're telling me that I deserve to lose my life (with no repercussions) because some little f*ck was playing hero and threatened me with his stalking?
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#107 SuperLegends
Member since 2012 • 25 Posts
Guilty
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#108 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"]This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence. Ace6301
I'm seeing some mixed evidence. Witnesses seem to favour Martins side of things with statements like: "Manalo testified that she saw two people on the ground struggling. After the shooting, Manalo told investigators that she could not identify who they were or their gender. But on the stand Manalo was certain that the bigger of the two people was on top of the smaller-framed person, and that after the shooting, the larger of the two got up." The autopsy seems to favour Zimmerman since there wasn't a lot of physical harm to Martin (beside the gunshot obviously). Though the initial physical interaction would have possibly been something like grabbing at a shirt prompting a reaction. If Manalo's testimony is true then Zimmerman was not in danger at the time and thus it was murder.

Yeah, but that testimony doesn't necessarily contradict Zimmerman because he claims that after the gun went off that Martin sat up right and then Zimmerman got on top of him and pinned him down by his wrist to restrain him, not knowing he was dead at this point.
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#109 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

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#110 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"]This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence. Commander-Gree
I'm seeing some mixed evidence. Witnesses seem to favour Martins side of things with statements like: "Manalo testified that she saw two people on the ground struggling. After the shooting, Manalo told investigators that she could not identify who they were or their gender. But on the stand Manalo was certain that the bigger of the two people was on top of the smaller-framed person, and that after the shooting, the larger of the two got up." The autopsy seems to favour Zimmerman since there wasn't a lot of physical harm to Martin (beside the gunshot obviously). Though the initial physical interaction would have possibly been something like grabbing at a shirt prompting a reaction. If Manalo's testimony is true then Zimmerman was not in danger at the time and thus it was murder.

Yeah, but that testimony doesn't necessarily contradict Zimmerman because he claims that after the gun went off that Martin sat up right and then Zimmerman got on top of him and pinned him down by his wrist to restrain him, not knowing he was dead at this point.

He sat up right? What? But according to Zimmerman Martin was on top, right? That doesn't make any sense to me. If the larger of the two got up then it wasn't Martin as he was dead at that point.
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#111 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

willtsherman
Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html
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#112 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts
[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence.

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.

You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.
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#113 FuggaJ
Member since 2012 • 318 Posts

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

willtsherman
In my opinion Martin doesn't have to be a saint for Zimmerman to feel some recoil from being an entirely non-decent human being. That's just me though.
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#114 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51571 Posts

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Zimmerman picked a fight, got his head bashed in, then killed a teenage when he realized he was losing. If I realized someone was following me at night of all times, you think I'm going to put on my most polite face, walk up to him and ask him why he's following me? F*ckery. Trayvon felt threatened as he fought back, and he lost his life because Zimmerman was a piss poor fighter.Shottayouth13-
This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence.

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.

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#115 willtsherman
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[QUOTE="willtsherman"]

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

Shottayouth13-

Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

Not at all, you're putting words in my message. A lot of people believe that he was killed in cold blood by an evil white monster. Plenty of people think he was a saint. Alll I said was that this might indicate what Trayvon may have been like. You're welcome to read my post again if I called Zimmerman a saint, it's not like it will go away.

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#116 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] I'm seeing some mixed evidence. Witnesses seem to favour Martins side of things with statements like: "Manalo testified that she saw two people on the ground struggling. After the shooting, Manalo told investigators that she could not identify who they were or their gender. But on the stand Manalo was certain that the bigger of the two people was on top of the smaller-framed person, and that after the shooting, the larger of the two got up." The autopsy seems to favour Zimmerman since there wasn't a lot of physical harm to Martin (beside the gunshot obviously). Though the initial physical interaction would have possibly been something like grabbing at a shirt prompting a reaction. If Manalo's testimony is true then Zimmerman was not in danger at the time and thus it was murder.

Yeah, but that testimony doesn't necessarily contradict Zimmerman because he claims that after the gun went off that Martin sat up right and then Zimmerman got on top of him and pinned him down by his wrist to restrain him, not knowing he was dead at this point.

He sat up right? What? But according to Zimmerman Martin was on top, right? That doesn't make any sense to me. If the larger of the two got up then it wasn't Martin as he was dead at that point.

There is a video where Zimmerman walks police through the whole event (I'm sure it is onYouTube). He claims that after the gun went off Trayvon stopped hitting him, sat up and said something like "you got me". Then Zimmerman claims that he got on top and restrained him. So if what Zimmerman says is true, he would have been the one on top directly after the shooting, which doesn't contradict what the witness said.
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#117 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?BranKetra
If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.

You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.

The fight or flight response just prepares your body for action. It doesn't make you want to fight or want to run. That's up to you. 

 

It's not an excuse.

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#118 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] This assumes that Zimmerman initiated physical contact, which isn't supported by the evidence. Chutebox

Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.

That's you. Everybody's different. Fight or flight, it's what adrenaline does. Trayvon fought.
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#119 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

[QUOTE="willtsherman"]

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

FuggaJ

In my opinion Martin doesn't have to be a saint for Zimmerman to feel some recoil from being an entirely non-decent human being. That's just me though.

Martin being a saint has nothing to do whether or not he deserved to die or if Zimmerman killed in cold blood. It gives insight on what he may be like. We have heard from plenty of blind people that Trayvon is some sweet innocent little boy. It gives thought on what Trayvon may or may not did during the fateful night.

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#120 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?

If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.

You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.

Are you not criticizing Zimmerman's after he was attacked?
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#121 lo_Pine
Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts
[QUOTE="willtsherman"]

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

Shottayouth13-
Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

No one has to prove Zimmerman was a saint. If they did, then it'd be easy to prove Trayvon was a sinner as he flashed his rebellion in photos like this,  Trayvon Martin was not an innocent little kid.
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#122 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Yeah, but that testimony doesn't necessarily contradict Zimmerman because he claims that after the gun went off that Martin sat up right and then Zimmerman got on top of him and pinned him down by his wrist to restrain him, not knowing he was dead at this point.

He sat up right? What? But according to Zimmerman Martin was on top, right? That doesn't make any sense to me. If the larger of the two got up then it wasn't Martin as he was dead at that point.

There is a video where Zimmerman walks police through the whole event (I'm sure it is onYouTube). He claims that after the gun went off Trayvon stopped hitting him, sat up and said something like "you got me". Then Zimmerman claims that he got on top and restrained him. So if what Zimmerman says is true, he would have been the one on top directly after the shooting, which doesn't contradict what the witness said.

I'm inclined not to believe that because of how cliche that sounds if you're relaying it correctly. Also I think it's always prudent to take all recounting of events with a grain of salt but especially so with the accused. Right now what he's saying contradicts what 2 witnesses have said. I very much doubt someone who just got shot in the heart and lung is going to stand up and say something. You're also reading the witness testimony wrong. The witness stated that the larger framed person who they identified as Zimmerman. If Zimmerman was on top of Martin before the gun shot it doesn't back his story, it incriminates him.
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#123 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51571 Posts
[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?Shottayouth13-

I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.

That's you. Everybody's different. Fight or flight, it's what adrenaline does. Trayvon fought.

Correct, so why ask the question?
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#124 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?Shottayouth13-

I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.

That's you. Everybody's different. Fight or flight, it's what adrenaline does. Trayvon fought.

Fight or flight doesn't make you see red and want to fight. That is a choice. Fight or flight is what they call the adrenaline dump that prepares your body for physical action... whether that is running, fighting, doing cartwheels, or whatever.

 

If he fought, it had nothing to do with the fight or flight response.

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#125 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.BMD004

You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.

The fight or flight response just prepares your body for action. It doesn't make you want to fight or want to run. That's up to you. 

 

It's not an excuse.

Whether or not the fight or flight response affects cognition is debatable, so it might be a reason for Trayvon Martin's actions. http://www.phoenix.edu/forward/perspectives/2012/10/5-ways-fight-or-flight-shapes-your-decisions.html
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#126 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] He sat up right? What? But according to Zimmerman Martin was on top, right? That doesn't make any sense to me. If the larger of the two got up then it wasn't Martin as he was dead at that point.

There is a video where Zimmerman walks police through the whole event (I'm sure it is onYouTube). He claims that after the gun went off Trayvon stopped hitting him, sat up and said something like "you got me". Then Zimmerman claims that he got on top and restrained him. So if what Zimmerman says is true, he would have been the one on top directly after the shooting, which doesn't contradict what the witness said.

I'm inclined not to believe that because of how cliche that sounds if you're relaying it correctly. Also I think it's always prudent to take all recounting of events with a grain of salt but especially so with the accused. Right now what he's saying contradicts what 2 witnesses have said.

Well, it is impossible to know for sure what happened, but the alternative is that Zimmerman was on top of Martin all along and then just decided to shoot him. That doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't explain any of the wounds.
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#127 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] If I was threatened and I was as close to home as Trayvon was then I would have ran home. I certainly wouldn't have attacked somebody before they explained their self if I wasn't looking for a fight.Commander-Gree
You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.

Are you not criticizing Zimmerman's after he was attacked?

I was not there, so I do not know the truth of the events for certain. Criticising either side would be somewhat presumptuous.

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#128 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="willtsherman"]

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

lo_Pine
Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

No one has to prove Zimmerman was a saint. If they did, then it'd be easy to prove Trayvon was a sinner as he flashed his rebellion in photos like this,  Trayvon Martin was not an innocent little kid.

Oh wow, some harmless little weed. :roll: And I'm not saying Trayvon was a saint, I just hate when people bring up these facts up about him and completely disregard that Zimmerman had prior run ins with the law.
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Shottayouth13-

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#129 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Chutebox"] I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.Chutebox
That's you. Everybody's different. Fight or flight, it's what adrenaline does. Trayvon fought.

Correct, so why ask the question?

Because Trayvon was within his grounds to confront the present threat - Zimmerman.
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Ace6301

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#130 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] There is a video where Zimmerman walks police through the whole event (I'm sure it is onYouTube). He claims that after the gun went off Trayvon stopped hitting him, sat up and said something like "you got me". Then Zimmerman claims that he got on top and restrained him. So if what Zimmerman says is true, he would have been the one on top directly after the shooting, which doesn't contradict what the witness said.

I'm inclined not to believe that because of how cliche that sounds if you're relaying it correctly. Also I think it's always prudent to take all recounting of events with a grain of salt but especially so with the accused. Right now what he's saying contradicts what 2 witnesses have said.

Well, it is impossible to know for sure what happened, but the alternative is that Zimmerman was on top of Martin all along and then just decided to shoot him. That doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't explain any of the wounds.

It's possible that Martin initiated the fight, impossible to know who did really, and Zimmerman managed to turn the tables after an initial beating and in the heat of the moment shot him while he had the upper hand. Obviously it's conjecture and no one can be sure. However if Zimmerman was on top of Martin at the time of the shooting then I would say he is criminally responsible. Again I think the autopsy supports Martin initiating the fight as he has relatively few wounds beyond the gun shot but as I also already said it is entirely possible that Zimmerman initiated physical contact but not in an overly threatening way such as a grab of a jacket. In such a case I wouldn't be surprised if Martin threw a punch. Either way it's f*cked up on both ends and neither made the right decisions that night. Another thing is the gunshot. I'm in no way a ballistics expert nor do I know the angle of the shot but the shot hit the heart and lower right lung. I also don't know what position the scuffle took place in but I do find it worth questioning how he managed such a good shot.
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BMD004

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#131 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="BranKetra"] You are criticising Trayvon Martin's fight or flight response.BranKetra

The fight or flight response just prepares your body for action. It doesn't make you want to fight or want to run. That's up to you. 

 

It's not an excuse.

Whether or not the fight or flight response affects cognition is debatable, so it might be a reason for Trayvon Martin's actions. http://www.phoenix.edu/forward/perspectives/2012/10/5-ways-fight-or-flight-shapes-your-decisions.html

Sure, it can cause cloudy thinking. Everything is going a mile a minute and you may not be thinking things through with a calm mind.

 

But you know enough choose whether or not you want to punch somebody who is walking away or not. (if that is what happened).

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#132 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="Chutebox"] I always try to avoid physical confrontations. So no, I would not have thrown a single punch unless the other man started it.

BMD004

That's you. Everybody's different. Fight or flight, it's what adrenaline does. Trayvon fought.

Fight or flight doesn't make you see red and want to fight. That is a choice. Fight or flight is what they call the adrenaline dump that prepares your body for physical action... whether that is running, fighting, doing cartwheels, or whatever.

 

If he fought, it had nothing to do with the fight or flight response.

And it also prepares the body to defend itself when it feels threatened by some strange dude's stalking.
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#133 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.htmlShottayouth13-
No one has to prove Zimmerman was a saint. If they did, then it'd be easy to prove Trayvon was a sinner as he flashed his rebellion in photos like this,  Trayvon Martin was not an innocent little kid.

Oh wow, some harmless little weed. :roll: And I'm not saying Trayvon was a saint, I just hate when people bring up these facts up about him and completely disregard that Zimmerman had prior run ins with the law.

I never disregarded Zimmerman's personality, I hate when people disregard Trayvon's capability of committing what Zimmerman stated. Some people don't believe it's possible. Maybe if you read my part when I stated Zimmerman was an angel as well as Trayvon deserving to die because of smoking pot and writing innapropriate stuff on Twitter :roll:

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#134 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Initiated physical contact or not, Trayvon felt threatened and so he defend himself. Be realistic, if you actually realized someone was following you, what would you do?Shottayouth13-

Not ****ing assualt them.

Well that's you. I'd probably fight. So you're telling me that I deserve to lose my life (with no repercussions) because some little f*ck was playing hero and threatened me with his stalking?

There is a clear chain of aggresion you follow in such situations, and Trayvon was a dumb ***** that decided to skip to he top.

You have to try to A: remove yourself from the area, or B attempt to peacfully resolve the situation.

Not jumping straight to trying to crack someone' skull in.

I would not assult a man for merly stalking me(I would take non-violent precautions, and have my right hand tucked close to my concealed holster ).

But as a registered CCW wielder I would shoot someone trying to assault me or someone else.

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deactivated-59f03d6ce656b

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#135 deactivated-59f03d6ce656b
Member since 2009 • 2944 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="dercoo"]

Not ****ing assualt them.

dercoo

Well that's you. I'd probably fight. So you're telling me that I deserve to lose my life (with no repercussions) because some little f*ck was playing hero and threatened me with his stalking?

There is a clear chain of aggresion you follow in such situations, and Trayvon was a dumb ***** that decided to skip to he top.

You have to try to A: remove yourself from the area, or B attempt to peacfully resolve the situation.

Not jumping straight to trying to crack someone' skull in.

I would not assult a man for merly stalking me.

But as a registered CCW wielder I would shoot someone trying to assult me or someone else.

Martin did do A when he noticed Zimmerman following him.
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#136 FuggaJ
Member since 2012 • 318 Posts

[QUOTE="FuggaJ"][QUOTE="willtsherman"]

We are not still 100% certain that he followed Trayvon after being told not to. You can hear him stop moving in the policve phone call. Another good way is to read these tweets written by Trayvon. While this does not mean that he certainly attacked Zimmerman nor does it mean that he deserved to be killed, looking into his social life can give some indication of what type of person he is. I can't stand the fact that people paint Trayvons parents as angels as well as their son. I'm sure they loved him dearly and weren't abusive, but come on, have you seen what he posts on twitter as well as him being suspended? My parents would have killed me if I did and wrote what Trayvon did. While this portion of information can't really be used and it really isn't the best type of evidence; it gives some idea what Trayvon was like and possibly capable of acting like while he was alive. Unlike the angelic little boy that was slaughtered as the media portrayed.

willtsherman

In my opinion Martin doesn't have to be a saint for Zimmerman to feel some recoil from being an entirely non-decent human being. That's just me though.

Martin being a saint has nothing to do whether or not he deserved to die or if Zimmerman killed in cold blood. It gives insight on what he may be like. We have heard from plenty of blind people that Trayvon is some sweet innocent little boy. It gives thought on what Trayvon may or may not did during the fateful night.

I found some of his last tweets (http://www.rightwingnews.com/10-random-140-character-thoughts/20-trayvon-martins-tweets-that-stand-out-language-warning/) and nothing stands out any different from any other normal teenager I know. He smokes weed, likes sex, and has terrible grammar and spelling. He wasn't out for blood, and didn't want to hurt anyone. He was scared and dealt with the situation the only way he knew how to. Keep in mind the kid wasn't an OT regular. He wasn't a weak person and for some people, presumably like him, dealing with fear confrontationally and not simply running away seems like the only option. He felt threatened and reacted in a way that he was comfortable with. Zimmerman instigated the entire situation by following him, period. He is liable for everything that happened in the situation following that action. I feel like there is a distinct difference between reality, and how the majority of people think on this forum.
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#137 Commander-Gree
Member since 2009 • 4929 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] I'm inclined not to believe that because of how cliche that sounds if you're relaying it correctly. Also I think it's always prudent to take all recounting of events with a grain of salt but especially so with the accused. Right now what he's saying contradicts what 2 witnesses have said.

Well, it is impossible to know for sure what happened, but the alternative is that Zimmerman was on top of Martin all along and then just decided to shoot him. That doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't explain any of the wounds.

It's possible that Martin initiated the fight, impossible to know who did really, and Zimmerman managed to turn the tables after an initial beating and in the heat of the moment shot him while he had the upper hand. Obviously it's conjecture and no one can be sure. However if Zimmerman was on top of Martin at the time of the shooting then I would say he is criminally responsible. Again I think the autopsy supports Martin initiating the fight as he has relatively few wounds beyond the gun shot but as I also already said it is entirely possible that Zimmerman initiated physical contact but not in an overly threatening way such as a grab of a jacket. In such a case I wouldn't be surprised if Martin threw a punch. Either way it's f*cked up on both ends and neither made the right decisions that night.

That is certainly possible, but there is no evidence to support it (aside from witness testimony which Zimmerman seems to explain) and he is innocent until proven guilty. Here is the reenactment, by the way: http://youtu.be/7qfkRTC5gF4 And your last point is right on the money. No matter how it went down, there are no winners here and it was unfortunate all around.
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#138 TheWalkingGhost
Member since 2012 • 6092 Posts
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]Zimmerman picked a fight, got his head bashed in, then killed a teenage when he realized he was losing. If I realized someone was following me at night of all times, you think I'm going to put on my most polite face, walk up to him and ask him why he's following me? F*ckery. Trayvon felt threatened as he fought back, and he lost his life because Zimmerman was a piss poor fighter.

More snap judgements without any insight.
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Shottayouth13-

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#139 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"] No one has to prove Zimmerman was a saint. If they did, then it'd be easy to prove Trayvon was a sinner as he flashed his rebellion in photos like this,  Trayvon Martin was not an innocent little kid.willtsherman

Oh wow, some harmless little weed. :roll: And I'm not saying Trayvon was a saint, I just hate when people bring up these facts up about him and completely disregard that Zimmerman had prior run ins with the law.

I never disregarded Zimmerman's personality, I hate when people disregard Trayvon's capability of committing what Zimmerman stated. Some people don't believe it's possible. Maybe if you read my part when I stated Zimmerman was an angel as well as Trayvon deserving to die because of smoking pot and writing innapropriate stuff on Twitter :roll:

I'm not disregarding Trayvon's capabilities, but if you're going to bring up one, bring up the other too. Otherwise you're just biased.
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#140 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="BMD004"]The fight or flight response just prepares your body for action. It doesn't make you want to fight or want to run. That's up to you. 

 

It's not an excuse.

BMD004

Whether or not the fight or flight response affects cognition is debatable, so it might be a reason for Trayvon Martin's actions. http://www.phoenix.edu/forward/perspectives/2012/10/5-ways-fight-or-flight-shapes-your-decisions.html

Sure, it can cause cloudy thinking. Everything is going a mile a minute and you may not be thinking things through with a calm mind.

 

But you know enough choose whether or not you want to punch somebody who is walking away or not. (if that is what happened).

Trayvon Martin was seventeen years old when he died. His age may be worth knowing because teenage years of human beings are a time of hormonal imbalance for many individuals. Imbalanced hormones mixed with a fight or flight response might be a reason Trayvon Martin made the decision to fight George Zimmerman. Trayvon Martin's death was over a year ago, so I doubt there is any way to verify his hormones during that night, but it is something to think about.
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#141 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Commander-Gree"][QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="Commander-Gree"] Well, it is impossible to know for sure what happened, but the alternative is that Zimmerman was on top of Martin all along and then just decided to shoot him. That doesn't make any sense to me and it doesn't explain any of the wounds.

It's possible that Martin initiated the fight, impossible to know who did really, and Zimmerman managed to turn the tables after an initial beating and in the heat of the moment shot him while he had the upper hand. Obviously it's conjecture and no one can be sure. However if Zimmerman was on top of Martin at the time of the shooting then I would say he is criminally responsible. Again I think the autopsy supports Martin initiating the fight as he has relatively few wounds beyond the gun shot but as I also already said it is entirely possible that Zimmerman initiated physical contact but not in an overly threatening way such as a grab of a jacket. In such a case I wouldn't be surprised if Martin threw a punch. Either way it's f*cked up on both ends and neither made the right decisions that night.

That is certainly possible, but there is no evidence to support it (aside from witness testimony which Zimmerman seems to explain) and he is innocent until proven guilty. Here is the reenactment, by the way: http://youtu.be/7qfkRTC5gF4 And your last point is right on the money. No matter how it went down, there are no winners here and it was unfortunate all around.

Again the witness testimony I quoted is at odds with Zimmermans account of the events as they say Zimmerman was on top of Martin before the gun shot, standing up after the shot. I also very much doubt his description of what happened when Martin was shot. Now I have no personal experience with being shot in the heart and lung but I have gotten pretty injured and standing up even after being winded can be pretty damn hard so I can't imagine what it's like when your heart and lung are destroyed. I kind of doubt he said anything intelligible.
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willtsherman

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#142 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

[QUOTE="willtsherman"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Oh wow, some harmless little weed. :roll: And I'm not saying Trayvon was a saint, I just hate when people bring up these facts up about him and completely disregard that Zimmerman had prior run ins with the law.Shottayouth13-

I never disregarded Zimmerman's personality, I hate when people disregard Trayvon's capability of committing what Zimmerman stated. Some people don't believe it's possible. Maybe if you read my part when I stated Zimmerman was an angel as well as Trayvon deserving to die because of smoking pot and writing innapropriate stuff on Twitter :roll:

I'm not disregarding Trayvon's capabilities, but if you're going to bring up one, bring up the other too. Otherwise you're just biased.

Plenty of other people bring up his Zimmerman's capabilities. That doesn't make me biased just because I just talked about Trayvon. I'm fully aware what a grown adult with a gun is capable of as well as everyone else. Since not many people believe Trayvon was capable and will picture him as a boy, I stated the case against that thought.

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Shottayouth13-

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#143 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="dercoo"]

Not ****ing assualt them.

dercoo

Well that's you. I'd probably fight. So you're telling me that I deserve to lose my life (with no repercussions) because some little f*ck was playing hero and threatened me with his stalking?

There is a clear chain of aggresion you follow in such situations, and Trayvon was a dumb ***** that decided to skip to he top.

You have to try to A: remove yourself from the area, or B attempt to peacfully resolve the situation.

Not jumping straight to trying to crack someone' skull in.

I would not assult a man for merly stalking me.

But as a registered CCW wielder I would shoot someone trying to assult me or someone else.

These 'chains of aggression' are not laws to be followed. Zimmerman had no right in the first place following Travyon. And also, Zimmerman was already highly suspicious of Trayvon, I highly doubt he went up to him in any polite manner. So how could Trayvon possibly have peacefully resolved the situation when Zimmerman already thought he was some hoodrat criminal?
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#144 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="willtsherman"] I never disregarded Zimmerman's personality, I hate when people disregard Trayvon's capability of committing what Zimmerman stated. Some people don't believe it's possible. Maybe if you read my part when I stated Zimmerman was an angel as well as Trayvon deserving to die because of smoking pot and writing innapropriate stuff on Twitter :roll:

willtsherman

I'm not disregarding Trayvon's capabilities, but if you're going to bring up one, bring up the other too. Otherwise you're just biased.

Plenty of other people bring up his Zimmerman's capabilities. That doesn't make me biased just because I just talked about Trayvon. I'm fully aware what a grown adult with a gun is capable of as well as everyone else. Since not many people believe Trayvon was capable and will picture him as a boy, I stated the case against that thought.

Your original post tainted a biased picture but ehh.
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willtsherman

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#145 willtsherman
Member since 2007 • 667 Posts

[QUOTE="dercoo"]

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Well that's you. I'd probably fight. So you're telling me that I deserve to lose my life (with no repercussions) because some little f*ck was playing hero and threatened me with his stalking?Shottayouth13-

There is a clear chain of aggresion you follow in such situations, and Trayvon was a dumb ***** that decided to skip to he top.

You have to try to A: remove yourself from the area, or B attempt to peacfully resolve the situation.

Not jumping straight to trying to crack someone' skull in.

I would not assult a man for merly stalking me.

But as a registered CCW wielder I would shoot someone trying to assult me or someone else.

These 'chains of aggression' are not laws to be followed. Zimmerman had no right in the first place following Travyon. And also, Zimmerman was already highly suspicious of Trayvon, I highly doubt he went up to him in any polite manner. So how could Trayvon possibly have peacefully resolved the situation when Zimmerman already thought he was some hoodrat criminal?

We don't know if Zimmerman confronted Trayvon or vice versa. Zimmerman's claim has the same amount of uncertainty as all the other claims. Right now there is no concrete evidence to back any side up. 

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#146 SandwichLord
Member since 2013 • 44 Posts
Zimmerman did have a gun. If a strange man with a gun followed you for some time and then approached you, I think it's reasonable to believe your life is in danger and it may be necessary to fight him off in order to save your life.... You can look at Martin as an aggressive hoodlum who attacked an innocent man that was just making sure his neighborhood was safe, or you can look at him as a young man that was stalked by an armed vigilante and tried to fight him off in self defense. Obviously, we will only know one side of the story, and with the lack of witnesses, it will be hard to prove Zimmerman is a murderer.
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#147 ShadowJax04
Member since 2006 • 3351 Posts

[QUOTE="playmynutz"]If ya don't like the law, leave. Ok I get it I'm not of this world. I will not participate in politics. Enjoy Babylon if you believe in their law...lostrib

wut

I think he's saying he's not from the Americas. Anyways dude should obviously NOT have pursued the kid
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#148 lo_Pine
Member since 2012 • 4978 Posts
[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"][QUOTE="lo_Pine"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Oh wow, and Zimmerman is a f*cking saint now? http://rollingout.com/culture/george-zimmerman-son-of-a-retired-judge-has-3-closed-arrests/ http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-killer-had-brushes-prior-153033731.html

No one has to prove Zimmerman was a saint. If they did, then it'd be easy to prove Trayvon was a sinner as he flashed his rebellion in photos like this,  Trayvon Martin was not an innocent little kid.

Oh wow, some harmless little weed. :roll: And I'm not saying Trayvon was a saint, I just hate when people bring up these facts up about him and completely disregard that Zimmerman had prior run ins with the law.

It is not the fact that Trayvon Martin is smoking weed that which speaks of ill character, it is the fact that he is emulating people like these:    People who advocate and glorify the act of being violently deviant toward the rest of society.
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Shottayouth13-

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#149 Shottayouth13-
Member since 2009 • 7018 Posts

People who advocate and glorify the act of being violently deviant toward the rest of society.lo_Pine

 

Lol what the f*ck is the shit? So rappers are the bane of society right now? :lol: GTFO

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Ace6301

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#150 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="lo_Pine"] It is not the fact that Trayvon Martin is smoking weed that which speaks of ill character, it is the fact that he is emulating people like these: People who advocate and glorify the act of being violently deviant toward the rest of society.

Every 12 to 24 year olds facebook can now be used to paint them as a violent deviant because they emulated something someone of ill repute did. Goddamn young 'uns.