Do you think Good "Atheists" go to Hell?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Yes it is.

Lansdowne5

Prove it! :x

Wait for it. . . . wait for it. . . .THE BIBLE!!!

:roll: Fine show me the scripture that says that.

Regardless... the Bible isn't good evidence to use on an atheist. ;)

150WPM. I reached 100WPM, I probably couldn't do much better that 88-90 right now.Jandurin

I type at about 75-80 WPM. :x

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

150 WPM is my max.

1. Explain. Why if you a commiting an act which God has told us not to, would this not be sinning against God?

2. That's pointless using a definition of sin which isn't relevant.

3. Sin isn't like a crime Funky, it's a spiritual act as well as physical. God is a spiritual being therefore God can remove it.

4. We are talking about sinning against God, so yes we are indeed assuming that the sins are against him. Because they have commited a sinful act against God and willingly not repented, this choice lasts forever, therefore why should the punishment for this choice not also?

Funky_Llama

I say. :P

1. No.

2. Oh, come on. You're using the subject of the debate of as a predicate. Clearly begging the question.

3. Non-sequitur. Satan is a also a spiritual being. Can he remove it?

4. And they couldn't repent after life because...? Besides which, no it doesn't last forever. Sin is finite.

1. Yes.

2. No I'm not, why are we even talking about this? I am referring to Biblical sin, a violation of God's law, you are talking about commiting an immoral act. The two are not the same, why can't we just talk about the one which is relevant to the subject in hand?

3. How am I even supposed to understand a spiritual being? God tells us that we can't possibly understand it with our human minds. I'm just stating the facts. All I know is that God is much more powerful than Satan.

4. What the...? Sin is infinite unless removed by God. That is the whole point Funky. If we could repent after life that would mean that our instructions for life would be meaningless, hence the reason God gave us the Law in the first place. Unless you're still going on about an immoral act.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]150WPM. I reached 100WPM, I probably couldn't do much better that 88-90 right now.Funky_Llama

I type at about 75-80 WPM. :x

Haha, in your face Llama boy!

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]150WPM. I reached 100WPM, I probably couldn't do much better that 88-90 right now.Lansdowne5

I type at about 75-80 WPM. :x

Haha, in your face Llama boy!

:cry: Damn my clumsy llama hands/hooves/whatever the hell llamas have!

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]150WPM. I reached 100WPM, I probably couldn't do much better that 88-90 right now.Funky_Llama

I type at about 75-80 WPM. :x

Haha, in your face Llama boy!

:cry: Damn my clumsy llama hands/hooves/whatever the hell llamas have!

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]150WPM. I reached 100WPM, I probably couldn't do much better that 88-90 right now.Funky_Llama

I type at about 75-80 WPM. :x

Haha, in your face Llama boy!

:cry: Damn my clumsy llama hands/hooves/whatever the hell llamas have!

Lol :lol:

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

150 WPM is my max.

1. Explain. Why if you a commiting an act which God has told us not to, would this not be sinning against God?

2. That's pointless using a definition of sin which isn't relevant.

3. Sin isn't like a crime Funky, it's a spiritual act as well as physical. God is a spiritual being therefore God can remove it.

4. We are talking about sinning against God, so yes we are indeed assuming that the sins are against him. Because they have commited a sinful act against God and willingly not repented, this choice lasts forever, therefore why should the punishment for this choice not also?

Lansdowne5

I say. :P

1. No.

2. Oh, come on. You're using the subject of the debate of as a predicate. Clearly begging the question.

3. Non-sequitur. Satan is a also a spiritual being. Can he remove it?

4. And they couldn't repent after life because...? Besides which, no it doesn't last forever. Sin is finite.

1. Yes.

2. No I'm not, why are we even talking about this? I am referring to Biblical sin, a violation of God's law, you are talking about commiting an immoral act. The two are not the same, why can't we just talk about the one which is relevant to the subject in hand?

3. How am I even supposed to understand a spiritual being? God tells us that we can't possibly understand it with our human minds. I'm just stating the facts. All I know is that God is much more powerful than Satan.

4. What the...? Sin is infinite unless removed by God. That is the whole point Funky. If we could repent after life that would mean that our instructions for life would be meaningless, hence the reason God gave us the Law in the first place. Unless you're still going on about an immoral act.

1. Pfft, burden of proof's on you.

2. What makes you think there's a dichotomy? Surely any violation of God's law is an immoral act.

3. "I don't know" isn't a valid counterargument. ;) Oh, and another thing: why doesn't God just kill Satan or something?

4. How is sin infinite? Doesn't make sense. Anyway, I don't see how it would make our instructions for life meaningless if we could repent after life.

I'm leaving but.....here you go:

What Is Sin - The Big Question
We live in a culture where the concept of sin has become entangled in legalistic arguments over right and wrong. When many of us consider "What is sin?" we think of violations of the Ten Commandments. Even then, we tend to think of murder and adultery as "major" sins compared with lying, cursing, or idolatry.

The truth is that sin, as defined in the original translations of the Bible, means "to miss the mark." The mark, in this case, is the standard of perfection established by God and evidenced by Jesus. Viewed in that light, it is clear that we are all sinners.

The Apostle Paul says in Romans 3:23: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

In light of this, it does no good to compare ourselves to others. We cannot escape our failure to be righteous in our own strength. This is by God's design, because only when we understand our weakness will we consider relying on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

What Is Sin - A Biblical Perspective
Sin is mentioned hundreds of times in the Bible, starting with the "original" sin when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge. Often it seems as if sin is simply the violation of any of God's laws, including the Ten Commandments.

Paul, however, puts this in perspective in Romans 3:20, when he says, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

God wanted us to recognize our sins. Even those who have not murdered or committed adultery will find themselves convicted of lying, or of worshipping false idols like wealth or power ahead of God.

Tragically, sin in any amount will distance us from God.

"Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear," says Isaiah 59: 1-2. "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear."

We must resist the temptation to act as if we are righteous, especially by leaning on our good works.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives" (1 John 1:8-10).

What Is Sin - A Call to Repentence
The good news in all of this is that, once we recognize ourselves as sinners, we need only to repent and embrace Jesus to be forgiven. Jesus can forgive us because he died and rose again three days later in victory over sin and death.

The Apostle Paul refers to this process of recognizing sin and being responsible for it as "godly sorrow."

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death," Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 7:10-11. "See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter."

Jesus can forgive us because he died and rose again three days later in victory over sin and death.

Lansdowne5

And there I was thinking an omnipotent God could wouldn't need to jump through hoops to forgive us.

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Jesus can forgive us because he died and rose again three days later in victory over sin and death.

Funky_Llama

And there I was thinking an omnipotent God could wouldn't need to jump through hoops to forgive us.

God is omnipotent, we are not. As I've said before, to show us something he must demonstrate it in a way we can at least understand.

I would be willing to bet that i am better than most Christians when it comes to morals and i have heard that some types of Christianity (methodist i think) say that as long as a person is good they can still go to heaven. I think a good god would allow anyone who is good to go to a good place.hoola

[QUOTE="hoola"]I would be willing to bet that i am better than most Christians when it comes to morals and i have heard that some types of Christianity (methodist i think) say that as long as a person is good they can still go to heaven. I think a good god would allow anyone who is good to go to a good place.Saxsoon

I've been a Methodist all my life, and have gone to many Methodists churches. I can assure you, whatever branch of Christianity that is, it is certainly not Methodist.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="deepdreamer256"]Unless God is a corrupt son of a ****, no.Funky_Llama

Would it be unjust of God to send someone to hell for doing something which he had clearly instructed them not to? If you go and stab someone to death, is it not right for you to go to jail for your actions?

:roll: Stabbing someone to death is deliberately malicious. It's immoral and the criminal knows it. Not believing in God is entirely different. Come on, surely even you realise that not believing in God is not like stabbing someone to death.

It is not about not believing in God. It is about the fact that we all are sinners. The penalty for sin is eternal death. God is holy and cannot let sin into His presence or He would not be Holy. God is just and would not be just if He did not punish sin. This is a problem. The solution is that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life. He died as a substitute for us. He paid the price for our sins. He paid the price we all deserve to pay. When one believes this and put their trust in Jesus Christ, repents of their sin, the righteous of Christ is imputed to them.. In God's eyes we are counted righteous because of the blood of Jesus. We are still sinners but at judgement, God sees us as righteous.

1. I'm aware the penalty for sin is eternal death; that's exactly what I'm objecting to, and exactly what you've failed to demonstrate is just.

2. It doesn't actually make sense that someone could suffer for your sins to absolve them on your behalf. Morality doesn't work like that.

Justice demands a penalty be paid. That is the basis of our legal system as well. Are you suggesting that this is immoral?

Jesus was God Himself, manifested in the flesh. The fact that He loves us enough to pay the price, a price we deserved to pay, is not only moral, it reveals the greatest love one could exhibit.

Would you suggest that a soldier that dies while trying to save the lives of others is not acting morally?

Justice demands a penalty be paid. That is the basis of our legal system as well. Are you suggesting that this is immoral?

Jesus was God Himself, manifested in the flesh. The fact that He loves us enough to pay the price, a price we deserved to pay, is not only moral, it reveals the greatest love one could exhibit.

Would you suggest that a soldier that dies while trying to save the lives of others is not acting morally?

blackregiment

:roll: Not an infinite penalty. That's my point.

It's unnessecary. If God wants to absolve us of our sins, he can do so. He's omnipotent.

:roll: Completely different. When a soldier dies to have others, those he saves aren't pardoned of their crimes, are they?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

Jesus can forgive us because he died and rose again three days later in victory over sin and death.

Lansdowne5

And there I was thinking an omnipotent God could wouldn't need to jump through hoops to forgive us.

God is omnipotent, we are not. As I've said before, to show us something he must demonstrate it in a way we can at least understand.

:roll: Like nailing himself to a cross? Odd way to show forgiveness. How about just telling us?

As far as I know they should go to the Limbo, but since it doesn't exist anymore, yeah, they go to helldragon7x2k

Hell also doesn't exist. ;)

[QUOTE="dragon7x2k"]As far as I know they should go to the Limbo, but since it doesn't exist anymore, yeah, they go to hellFunky_Llama

Hell also doesn't exist. ;)

No that wasn't what I wanted to say, I mean the Pope said that the Limbo does not exist anymore because of the children without the baptism should be forgived by God and they deserve rest, ergo, Limbo is gone, like forever, until another Pope say another thing about it.

Also I don't believe in afterlife

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="dragon7x2k"]As far as I know they should go to the Limbo, but since it doesn't exist anymore, yeah, they go to helldragon7x2k

Hell also doesn't exist. ;)

No that wasn't what I wanted to say, I mean the Pope said that the Limbo does not exist anymore because of the children without the baptism should be forgived by God and they deserve rest, ergo, Limbo is gone, like forever, until another Pope say another thing about it.

Also I don't believe in afterlife

Oh right, yeah.

The only difference between atheists and theists is that Atheists don't waste their time praising nothing. They both do the same thing after they die: rot.stedtfeld

Would you consider securing yourself a place in Heaven a "waste of time"? You are right, both athiests and thiests bodies will rot, however, our souls are eternal. What we do while we're on Earth determines what will happen after death. So in my case, worshipping is not at all a waste of time.

[QUOTE="stedtfeld"]The only difference between atheists and theists is that Atheists don't waste their time praising nothing. They both do the same thing after they die: rot.Lansdowne5

Would you consider securing yourself a place in Heaven a "waste of time"? You are right, both athiests and thiests bodies will rot, however, our souls are eternal. What we do while we're on Earth determines what will happen after death. So in my case, worshipping is not at all a waste of time.

The only way that would not be a waste of time is if we have souls, if those souls are able to leave the body, if heaven exists, if there is a god that decides who goes to heaven, and if you pleased the right god. Hmmm, I'll take my chances and not waste my time depending on these very unlikely things.

Its not that simple... when you die you dont go do either heaven or hell...God, me, you ever living being is very complex... heaven and hell are not the only options when you die

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="dragon7x2k"]As far as I know they should go to the Limbo, but since it doesn't exist anymore, yeah, they go to helldragon7x2k

Hell also doesn't exist. ;)

No that wasn't what I wanted to say, I mean the Pope said that the Limbo does not exist anymore because of the children without the baptism should be forgived by God and they deserve rest, ergo, Limbo is gone, like forever, until another Pope say another thing about it.

Also I don't believe in afterlife

God I love Christianity :lol: , they can have some old guy come in and decide limbos out of style so it no longer exists.

Like, people with good morals, that either were brought up without the church or have a damn good reason not to be a part of it? BloodEmblem

No, good people don't go to Hell no matter what their religious beliefs or lack there of. Your beliefs aren't what's most important, it's the way you lived and treated your fellow man.

[QUOTE="BloodEmblem"]Like, people with good morals, that either were brought up without the church or have a damn good reason not to be a part of it? Master_Hermes

No, good people don't go to Hell no matter what their religious beliefs or lack there of. Your beliefs aren't what's most important, it's the way you lived and treated your fellow man.

wrong

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

[QUOTE="stedtfeld"]The only difference between atheists and theists is that Atheists don't waste their time praising nothing. They both do the same thing after they die: rot.Lansdowne5

Would you consider securing yourself a place in Heaven a "waste of time"? You are right, both athiests and thiests bodies will rot, however, our souls are eternal. What we do while we're on Earth determines what will happen after death. So in my case, worshipping is not at all a waste of time.

and how do you know you are worshiping the right god?

and please, don't say beacose the bible says so...

and it still just to funny that you can kill as many people as you want and still get to heaven. Tell me what really is providing morals for christians? It certanly isn't the religion

[QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

[QUOTE="stedtfeld"]The only difference between atheists and theists is that Atheists don't waste their time praising nothing. They both do the same thing after they die: rot.Enosh88

Would you consider securing yourself a place in Heaven a "waste of time"? You are right, both athiests and thiests bodies will rot, however, our souls are eternal. What we do while we're on Earth determines what will happen after death. So in my case, worshipping is not at all a waste of time.

and how do you know you are worshiping the right god?

and please, don't say beacose the bible says so...

I don't exactly want to speak for Lansdowne5, but for me I just feel it in my heart. I know He's there. I know I'm worshipping the one and only God. Not just the right one. There is only one.

[QUOTE="Master_Hermes"]

[QUOTE="BloodEmblem"]Like, people with good morals, that either were brought up without the church or have a damn good reason not to be a part of it? J-man45

No, good people don't go to Hell no matter what their religious beliefs or lack there of. Your beliefs aren't what's most important, it's the way you lived and treated your fellow man.

wrong

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Well, that verse doesnt say anything about hell >.>

[QUOTE="J-man45"][QUOTE="Master_Hermes"]

[QUOTE="BloodEmblem"]Like, people with good morals, that either were brought up without the church or have a damn good reason not to be a part of it? 123625

No, good people don't go to Hell no matter what their religious beliefs or lack there of. Your beliefs aren't what's most important, it's the way you lived and treated your fellow man.

wrong

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Well, that verse doesnt say anything about hell >.>

he was talking about how you go to Heaven for being a good person. Anyway, if you don't go to Heaven, you go to Hell. so...

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

he was talking about how you go to Heaven for being a good person. Anyway, if you don't go to Heaven, you go to Hell. so... J-man45

No he said, those who beleive in christ are saved. And is there an actual verse saying there is only heaven and hell? I currently reading the NT but i would be interested in such a verse, or something similar.

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

Enosh88

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

[QUOTE="J-man45"]he was talking about how you go to Heaven for being a good person. Anyway, if you don't go to Heaven, you go to Hell. so... 123625

No he said, those who beleive in christ are saved. And is there an actual verse saying there is only heaven and hell? I currently reading the NT but i would be interested in such a verse, or something similar.

The Bible talks about Heaven and Hell multiple times. Maybe not in the same verse but...

[QUOTE="Enosh88"]

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

123625

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

yes, babies go to Heaven.

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]he was talking about how you go to Heaven for being a good person. Anyway, if you don't go to Heaven, you go to Hell. so... J-man45

No he said, those who beleive in christ are saved. And is there an actual verse saying there is only heaven and hell? I currently reading the NT but i would be interested in such a verse, or something similar.

The Bible talks about Heaven and Hell multiple times. Maybe not in the same verse but...

Thats not what I asked for.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Enosh88"]

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

J-man45

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

yes, babies go to Heaven.

show me a quote from the bible where it says that please

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Lansdowne5"]

So is your avatar male then Funky? Cause I couldn't tell.

Lansdowne5

The Red War Llama? I don't know. :P

I've never heard of a Red War Llama, what is it attributed to?

I found it on Uncyclopedia. If only it were a real animal. :P

This is the closest you'll get. :lol:

I think we evolved from llamas...or maybe rocks:

Yeah, this makes just as much sense as what you're all talking about right now.

[QUOTE="J-man45"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Enosh88"]

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

Enosh88

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

yes, babies go to Heaven.

show me a quote from the bible where it says that please

Here are the verses that form the basis of the belief that a child that dies goes to Heaven Here, David's child had died. He fasted and wept until the child died. When the child died, he stopped and explains that he will be with the child in the future. Since David was a man of God, this is taken to mean he will see the child in heaven.

[QUOTE="Enosh88"][QUOTE="J-man45"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Enosh88"]

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

blackregiment

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

yes, babies go to Heaven.

show me a quote from the bible where it says that please

Here are the verses that form the basis of the belief that a child that dies goes to Heaven Here, David's child had died. He fasted and wept until the child died. When the child died, he stopped and explains that he will be with the child in the future. Since David was a man of God, this is taken to mean he will see the child in heaven.

2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Does the child grow in heaven or do they stay the way they are?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Enosh88"][QUOTE="J-man45"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Enosh88"]

oh and just wondering:

what happens to all the children that die at the age of well lets says 1-3 years old. Automaticly send to hell? Since everyone is born as a sinner I don't see any other option.

well that God sourly is a mean guy

tzar3

I assume they are "innocent" and can't be condemned till they realise that some of their actions might of been wrong.

yes, babies go to Heaven.

show me a quote from the bible where it says that please

Here are the verses that form the basis of the belief that a child that dies goes to Heaven Here, David's child had died. He fasted and wept until the child died. When the child died, he stopped and explains that he will be with the child in the future. Since David was a man of God, this is taken to mean he will see the child in heaven.

2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Does the child grow in heaven or do they stay the way they are?

Remember, they are a spirit. When the Lord returns and the dead are ressurected, it is believed that everyone that is saved will receive glorified bodies which is thought to be a perfect body of the person at their prime. It is believed to be the same for babies. We will not fully understand this until the Lord returns.

I don't think there is a hell or heaven. It's probably just a bunch of stuff made up along with the bible and such. And assuming there is heaven and hell. I think that people with good moral would go to heaven. It just seems stupid to decide which person goes to hell or heaven based on belief.Vilot_Hero

What is the source for your beliefs? People go to Hell or Heaven based on whether they remain in their sins at death or whether they are counted righteous by the blood of Jesus because they have accepted Him and His sacrifice through faith in Him.This is faith, rooted in God's Word.