Harvard University Confirms: 4th of July is Just Right-Wing Social Engineering

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]

lolharvard.

Conducting studies on useless information just to proclaim they did a study on something since.. forever.

UCF_Knight

Sometimes intellectual curiosity about something is reason enough to conduct a study.

This is what they were intellectually curious about? Of all things?

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] It's the liberals at Harvard....>__>theone86

You know, in all seriousness, it probably is >_>

Nice to see Harvard spending money on some useful research :|

But seriously..What a bunch of crap. July 4th is an important day in American history, and there's no propaganda in it, nor is there a problem with people celebrating it.

I never expressly said there was anything wrong with people celebrating it, but saying that there is NO propaganda in fourth celebrations whatsoever is just patently false.

Well if you want to view it that way, isn't there some sort of "propaganda" in every little event or celebration that happens in this world? It's not like I turn on the TV to see a 4th of July advertisement every other second..Am I happy about the congress, the economy, or the politics involved in the US? No. Am I going to celebrate and enjoy 4th of July? Yes, and why shouldn't I? It's not like 4th of July comes around and everyone gets teary-eyed and patriotic, I've never met someone who has done that. It's just a day of celebration and an important day in American history..

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Sometimes intellectual curiosity about something is reason enough to conduct a study.

GreySeal9

This is what they were intellectually curious about? Of all things?

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Ah... the result of political corectness. You're probably one of those people who think little leage teams shouldn't keep score as to not hurt the other kid's feelings if they lose.

BMD004

His statement is pretty much the opposite of political correctness.

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Social engineering, no. A bunch of patriotic bull**** meant to inspire blind enthusiasm at best and jingoism at worst, yes. Frankly, I find patriotism to be a rather inane concept, basically being proud of something for the sake of being proud of it regardless of whether or not it's actually a good thing or a bad thing. It's nothing, though, that ****tacular summer blockbusters made by immature manchildren with hard-ons for angsty jerks who have a strictly linear moral compass don't do. The fouth is simply a Micheal Bay movie without an explicit narrative.

BMD004

Whoo, strawman, and one that doesn't even make an attempt to have any relevancy to the original post whatsoever. It has nothing to do with politial correctness, it has to do with exactly what I said it had to with, my disdain for people who get all hot and bothered by a bunch of loud noises and tri-colored streamers.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

His statement is pretty much the opposite of political correctness.

GreySeal9

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]

This is what they were intellectually curious about? Of all things?

LJS9502_basic

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

WTF? When did I say they don't celebrate?

I'm just saying that one might be intellectually curious about whether the fourth of July has any effects on people's politics.

I don't have the study, so I'm not agreeing with their conclusions, I'm just saying it's something someone might be curious about.

Seems to be the opposite of intellectual curiosity.:PLJS9502_basic

Ha, exactly.

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

GreySeal9

I think the results speak as to why its unreasonable.

Those percentages are so minimal, they mean nothing. Everyone celebrates the 4th, no matter political affiliation. It's not a polarizing political event.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]The way he went about it wasn't politically correct... but his point is that people shouldn't be patriotic or proud of their country and fellow countrymen.

LJS9502_basic

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

I see no reason to believe that's true.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Seems to be the opposite of intellectual curiosity.:PUCF_Knight

Ha, exactly.

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

GreySeal9

I think the results speak as to why its unreasonable.

Those percentages are so minimal, they mean nothing. Everyone celebrates the 4th, no matter political affiliation. It's not a polarizing political event.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Seems to be the opposite of intellectual curiosity.:PUCF_Knight

Ha, exactly.

I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

GreySeal9

I think the results speak as to why its unreasonable.

Those percentages are so minimal, they mean nothing. Everyone celebrates the 4th, no matter political affiliation. It's not a polarizing political event.

Even if their conclusions are flawed (which they might very well be), that doesn't mean that the subject itself is worthless from an intellectual standpoint.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Ah... the result of political corectness. You're probably one of those people who think little leage teams shouldn't keep score as to not hurt the other kid's feelings if they lose.

BMD004

His statement is pretty much the opposite of political correctness.

You're confusing patriotism with jingoism. Patriotism is when you feel genuinely proud of your country, and it's not always borne of altruism at that. Jingoism is when you saturate a community with patriotic overtones and start complaining the second someone doesn't buy into all the sensationalistic crap, resorting to ostracization. If everyone's patriotic only because they feel it's some natural law that everyone should be patriotic, then you're damn right I'm saying people shouldn't be patriotic. As for proud, pride is contigent on actions and like patriotism is not to be held as something that should just be natural.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

His statement is pretty much the opposite of political correctness.

GreySeal9

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Ha, exactly.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]I don't see what's so unreasonable about being intellectually curious about the effects a holiday like the fourth of July might have on people's politics.

Pirate700

I think the results speak as to why its unreasonable.

Those percentages are so minimal, they mean nothing. Everyone celebrates the 4th, no matter political affiliation. It's not a polarizing political event.

Do Americans celebrate Cinco de Mayo?

There's your answer Pirate. Even terrorists don't miss a chance to drink some beers and light up the grill. 8)

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="UCF_Knight"]

I think the results speak as to why its unreasonable.

Those percentages are so minimal, they mean nothing. Everyone celebrates the 4th, no matter political affiliation. It's not a polarizing political event.

UCF_Knight

Do Americans celebrate Cinco de Mayo?

There's your answer Pirate. Even terrorists don't miss a chance to drink some beers and light up the grill. 8)

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]The way he went about it wasn't politically correct... but his point is that people shouldn't be patriotic or proud of their country and fellow countrymen.

BMD004

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

When did I say they don't celebrate?

I'm just saying that one might be intellectually curious about whether the fourth of July has any effects on people's politics.

I don't have the study, so I'm not agreeing with their conclusions, I'm just saying it's something someone might be curious about.

GreySeal9

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

His statement is pretty much the opposite of political correctness.

theone86

You're confusing patriotism with jingoism. Patriotism is when you feel genuinely proud of your country, and it's not always borne of altruism at that. Jingoism is when you saturate a community with patriotic overtones and start complaining the second someone doesn't buy into all the sensationalistic crap, resorting to ostracization. If everyone's patriotic only because they feel it's some natural law that everyone should be patriotic, then you're damn right I'm saying people shouldn't be patriotic. As for proud, pride is contigent on actions and like patriotism is not to be held as something that should just be natural.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="taj7575"]

You know, in all seriousness, it probably is >_>

Nice to see Harvard spending money on some useful research :|

But seriously..What a bunch of crap. July 4th is an important day in American history, and there's no propaganda in it, nor is there a problem with people celebrating it.

BMD004

I never expressly said there was anything wrong with people celebrating it, but saying that there is NO propaganda in fourth celebrations whatsoever is just patently false.

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]The way he went about it wasn't politically correct... but his point is that people shouldn't be patriotic or proud of their country and fellow countrymen.

BMD004

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

Oh, you mean polite.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I never expressly said there was anything wrong with people celebrating it, but saying that there is NO propaganda in fourth celebrations whatsoever is just patently false.

theone86

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"] When did I say they don't celebrate?

I'm just saying that one might be intellectually curious about whether the fourth of July has any effects on people's politics.

I don't have the study, so I'm not agreeing with their conclusions, I'm just saying it's something someone might be curious about.

LJS9502_basic

And that's fine (the results might very well be invalid), but that Democrats and Independents celebrate has nothing to with my statement as I didn't say their conclusions were correct (as I have not seen the study). Regardless of the conclusion the came to, it still might be a question that sparks one's intellectually curiosity.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

That statement is not politically correct in any way.

Actually, it's one of the most politically incorrect things you can say. :?

GreySeal9

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I never expressly said there was anything wrong with people celebrating it, but saying that there is NO propaganda in fourth celebrations whatsoever is just patently false.

theone86

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

I think you're just overanalyzing the holiday...

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]No. I don't think you know what politically correct means. Politically correct simply means that you are trying as hard as possible to make sure nobody is offended,

BMD004

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

Yep... we should all be unemotional robots as not to offend anybody.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I never expressly said there was anything wrong with people celebrating it, but saying that there is NO propaganda in fourth celebrations whatsoever is just patently false.

theone86

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]No. I don't think you know what politically correct means. Politically correct simply means that you are trying as hard as possible to make sure nobody is offended,

BMD004

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

But did theone says any of this? No, he didn't, so you're just jumping to conclusions.

The statement itself is not politically correct. It is only when you add stuff that theone never said that it becomes PC.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]The way he went about it wasn't politically correct... but his point is that people shouldn't be patriotic or proud of their country and fellow countrymen.

BMD004

You're confusing patriotism with jingoism. Patriotism is when you feel genuinely proud of your country, and it's not always borne of altruism at that. Jingoism is when you saturate a community with patriotic overtones and start complaining the second someone doesn't buy into all the sensationalistic crap, resorting to ostracization. If everyone's patriotic only because they feel it's some natural law that everyone should be patriotic, then you're damn right I'm saying people shouldn't be patriotic. As for proud, pride is contigent on actions and like patriotism is not to be held as something that should just be natural.

And Christmas is celebrating Cronos' role as the father of the gods who rule earth, doesn't stop millions of Christians from celebrating Jesus' birth on that day instead.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

ImaPirate0202

Yep... we should all be unemotional robots as not to offend anybody.

The only problem is theone never said anything about not offending anybody.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Like what? What kind of propoganda?

ImaPirate0202

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

I think you're just overanalyzing the holiday...

I think you're just underanalyzing the holiday...

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Because when somebody shows a hint of pride or bias, it is seen as bad. For example, a politically correct person would say nobody in any country should be very patriotic about where they come from because no country is better than another country.

GreySeal9

Yep... we should all be unemotional robots as not to offend anybody.

The only problem is theone never said anything about not offending anybody.

Nope, but he's criticizing others for doing the opposite of what I said.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

You're confusing patriotism with jingoism. Patriotism is when you feel genuinely proud of your country, and it's not always borne of altruism at that. Jingoism is when you saturate a community with patriotic overtones and start complaining the second someone doesn't buy into all the sensationalistic crap, resorting to ostracization. If everyone's patriotic only because they feel it's some natural law that everyone should be patriotic, then you're damn right I'm saying people shouldn't be patriotic. As for proud, pride is contigent on actions and like patriotism is not to be held as something that should just be natural.

theone86

And Christmas is celebrating Cronos' role as the father of the gods who rule earth, doesn't stop millions of Christians from celebrating Jesus' birth on that day instead.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

theone86

I think you're just overanalyzing the holiday...

I think you're just underanalyzing the holiday...

I never gave my opinion of the holiday.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

You're confusing patriotism with jingoism. Patriotism is when you feel genuinely proud of your country, and it's not always borne of altruism at that. Jingoism is when you saturate a community with patriotic overtones and start complaining the second someone doesn't buy into all the sensationalistic crap, resorting to ostracization. If everyone's patriotic only because they feel it's some natural law that everyone should be patriotic, then you're damn right I'm saying people shouldn't be patriotic. As for proud, pride is contigent on actions and like patriotism is not to be held as something that should just be natural.

theone86

And Christmas is celebrating Cronos' role as the father of the gods who rule earth, doesn't stop millions of Christians from celebrating Jesus' birth on that day instead.

Social engineering, no. A bunch of patriotic bull**** meant to inspire blind enthusiasm at best and jingoism at worst, yes. Frankly, I find patriotism to be a rather inane concept, basically being proud of something for the sake of being proud of it regardless of whether or not it's actually a good thing or a bad thing. It's nothing, though, that ****tacular summer blockbusters made by immature manchildren with hard-ons for angsty jerks who have a strictly linear moral compass don't do. The fouth is simply a Micheal Bay movie without an explicit narrative.

theone86

Yea! Screw all of our ancestors that died in war to keep America a free nation!

But then again, it was only by chance we were born into their lineage. So I shouldn't be proud of that either :roll:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/06/30/harvard-july-4th-parades-are-right-wing

Click the link to read the story. Key points:

"There is no evidence of an increased likelihood of identifying as a Democrat, indicating that Fourth of July shifts preferences to the right rather than increasing political polarization," the two wrote.

The three key findings of those attending July 4th celebrations:

• When done before the age of 18, it increases the likelihood of a youth identifying as a Republican by at least 2 percent.
• It raises the likelihood that parade watchers will vote for a Republican candidate by 4 percent.
• It boosts the likelihood a reveler will vote by about 1 percent and increases the chances they'll make a political contribution by 3 percent.

Should we ban 4th of July celebrations?

moneymatterz

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And how does his statement at all make sure nobody is offended? It's the kind of statement that's anti-mainstream and offensive to the average person.

And how do you know that theone made the statement with the intention of not offending anybody? Show me the exacts words in his statement that makes you believe that.

GreySeal9

But did theone says any of this? No, he didn't, so you're just jumping to conclusions.

The statement itself is not politically correct. It is only when you add stuff that theone never said that it becomes PC.

Definition of patriotism: love or devotion to one's country.

So if he thinks love of your country is an inane concept, and that the celebration of your country is "patriotic bull****", then we can assume that he doesn't want anybody to be patriotic or proud of where they come from. It's not the leap you are making it out to be.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

Yep... we should all be unemotional robots as not to offend anybody.

ImaPirate0202

The only problem is theone never said anything about not offending anybody.

Nope, but he's criticizing others for doing the opposite of what I said.

No, he's not. He basically said that patriotism is an inane concept. He never took anybody to task for being animated people with opinions that may offend.

Yea! Screw all of our ancestors that died in war to keep America a free nation!

But then again, it was only by chance we were born into their lineage. :roll:imaps3fanboy

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

theone86

I think you're just overanalyzing the holiday...

I think you're just underanalyzing the holiday...

No, you're overanalyzing the holiday..

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Like what? What kind of propoganda?

BMD004

Putting up streamers and decorating the town with the state's colors, singing songs glorifying the state, organizing marches and parades again glorifying the state, those are all tactics of propaganda. You can argue whether what they're aggrandizing is good or not, but there's no arguing that it's not propagnda.

And what is that good exactly? Do we get to pick and choose? I, for one, have never been to a fourth celebration where people celebrated anti-draft protests as people who helped do positive things, but almost every fourth celebration I've been to celebrates wars that I think were unnecessary and pointless as good things, so for me it is impossible to celebrate the good as what I consider the good is not celebrated and what I consider the bad is celebrated. Furthermore, why is America's independence something to be celebrated? Control of America for us meant one less degree of control of America for natives, why should independence for us be celebrated as good when it also meant subjugation for so many others? The fourth isn't about celebrating independence or good, it's about celebrating the status quo.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"Yea! Screw all of our ancestors that died in war to keep America a free nation!

But then again, it was only by chance we were born into their lineage. :roll:

LJS9502_basic

It's much cooler to be apathetic about national holidays.

Yeah national holidays are so mainstream :D

*Glitchspot strikes again!

BMD004

I find overly patriotism to be sign of a weak culture and society that needs external symbols to constantly be remainded what they are and where they belong. It is not different from a person that is extremely insecure so he/she needs to keep talking about how much they have achieved to reafirm their identity. Those kind of people don't inspire a lot of confidence and so it's a nation that constantly keeps reminding others and themselves how good and glorious they are. A person or a nation with a strong consolidated identity doesn't need to keep reminding anyone about who they are because they know who they are and they are confortable with it.kuraimen

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Because when somebody shows a hint of pride or bias, it is seen as bad. For example, a politically correct person would say nobody in any country should be very patriotic about where they come from because no country is better than another country.

BMD004

But did theone says any of this? No, he didn't, so you're just jumping to conclusions.

The statement itself is not politically correct. It is only when you add stuff that theone never said that it becomes PC.

Definition of patriotism: love or devotion to one's country.

So if he thinks love of your country is an inane concept, and that the celebration of your country is "patriotic bull****", then we can assume that he doesn't want anybody to be patriotic or proud of where they come from. It's not the leap you are making it out to be.

Yes, it is the leap I'm making it out to be.

First of all, he didn't say that he doesn't want anybody to be proud or patriotic. He just said that he personally finds patriotism to an inane concept, which is his right. That doesn't mean that he actively wants to prevent people from being patriotic or proud. For instance, you may find alot of liberal ideas to be inane, but that doesn't mean that you don't want people to be liberal.

Also, you tried to bring the aspect of disliking patriotism because it offends other people when he never said anything about not offending other people.

You're trying to put words into his mouth to make a statement that was not PC into a statement that is PC.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

The only problem is theone never said anything about not offending anybody.

GreySeal9

Nope, but he's criticizing others for doing the opposite of what I said.

No, he's not. He basically said that patriotism is an inane concept. He never took anybody to task for being animated people with opinions that may offend.

Yes, by labeling people who celebrate the holiday as tools.