Harvard University Confirms: 4th of July is Just Right-Wing Social Engineering

Gotta love how an innocuous study can be so easily turned into a political pissing contest. :roll:

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"][QUOTE="theone86"]

It's pessimistic when contrasted with blind optimism, but I prefer to think of it as a realist ideology.

theone86

I think you under-analyze things, it's a supposition based on perspective. A community get together implies purpose, a celebration implies purpose, once you have purpose you have something more than face value that can be analyzed, and once you add in beahvior you have far more that can be analyzed, so if you're saying that any analysis that goes beyond get together or celebration is an over-analysis then I would have to disagree, as such isn't really an analysis at all and therefore anything beyond can hardly be called overanalysis.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"] I'm a realist as well, but I think you over-analyze things. 4th of July is really just meant as a community get together and celebration, nothing more. You're treating it as if it's an overthrow of intellectualism..imaps3fanboy

I think you under-analyze things, it's a supposition based on perspective. A community get together implies purpose, a celebration implies purpose, once you have purpose you have something more than face value that can be analyzed, and once you add in beahvior you have far more that can be analyzed, so if you're saying that any analysis that goes beyond get together or celebration is an over-analysis then I would have to disagree, as such isn't really an analysis at all and therefore anything beyond can hardly be called overanalysis.

I had a barbeque last week for the heck of it, when it's a national holiday it's hardly just for the heck of it, I think that's a self-defeating supposition.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

No, but the title Saturnalia does, and the calculation of when to celebrate Christmas is taken from the calculation of when to celebrate Saturnalia, therefore the original purpose of the holiday has changed over time, just like the original purpose of the fourth can change over time.

theone86

Is that what you ask everyone who makes a point you can't counter?

I'm just curious... are you a communist? And are you even American?

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

If you're not going to address the points, then aren't you just trolling?

GreySeal9

I don't know... is giving one's opinion a violation of the TOU?

Not at all. But would you deny that the "rebellious teenager" stuff is starting to get into troll terrority?

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]Are you a communist?

BMD004

Is that what you ask everyone who makes a point you can't counter?

I'm just curious... are you a communist? And are you even American?

So when it's not fun to debate anymore you resort to asking questions which have no bearing on the discussion whatsoever, why, because that's more fun? Are you a communist? Are you an American?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

I don't know... is giving one's opinion a violation of the TOU?

BMD004

Not at all. But would you deny that the "rebellious teenager" stuff is starting to get into troll terrority?

I didn't say he was a troll, but I do think getting personal iinstead of addressing the argument amounts to trolling.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Is that what you ask everyone who makes a point you can't counter?

theone86

I'm just curious... are you a communist? And are you even American?

So when it's not fun to debate anymore you resort to asking questions which have no bearing on the discussion whatsoever, why, because that's more fun? Are you a communist? Are you an American?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="theone86"]

It's not a matter of meaning different things in different customs, Saturnalia was actually practiced for quite a while under Christian Rome. It was a calculated decision to have Christmas fall on Saturnalia as a way of changing the meaning of the holiday, which it did, which supports my original point that the meaning of holidays can change over time.

theone86

No it's not, it's the same celebration, different meaning behind it.

That depends on what you mean by the point. If by the point you mean what it was originally intended to be, a celebration of independence as a nation, then yes I missed the point. If you mean what it actually is in practice, an excuse for a bunch of people to get drunk off their asses and watch big explosions that make big sounds and use these manufactured images to force themselves to get all teary-eyed and emotional like a first-year drama student who just mastered crying at will, then I think I hit the nail on the head.

theone86

That may be your narrow-minded view of why people celebrate the 4th, but don't claim to know the entire country's motives for celebrating it.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]No, and I could counter each one of your points... but it's getting so ridiculous it's not even fun to debate anymore, because we'll never agree.

I'm just curious... are you a communist? And are you even American?

BMD004

So when it's not fun to debate anymore you resort to asking questions which have no bearing on the discussion whatsoever, why, because that's more fun? Are you a communist? Are you an American?

Could you explain how it is relevant? Does my nationality or ideology have any bearing on my argument? If I were a Texas conservative would my argument bear any more or less weight? It's only relevant if you wish to resort to ad homenim, in which case I don't find that particular line of argumentation worthwhile in the first place.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

That depends on what you mean by the point. If by the point you mean what it was originally intended to be, a celebration of independence as a nation, then yes I missed the point. If you mean what it actually is in practice, an excuse for a bunch of people to get drunk off their asses and watch big explosions that make big sounds and use these manufactured images to force themselves to get all teary-eyed and emotional like a first-year drama student who just mastered crying at will, then I think I hit the nail on the head.

airshocker

That may be your narrow-minded view of why people celebrate the 4th, but don't claim to know the entire country's motives for celebrating it.

A. I'll claim what I damn well please.

B. I didn't claim to know the entire country's motivation.

The Article's Author and this topic title is misleading.

Yes it's a Harvard study on political influence of national holidays, but the only people calling this right wing social engineering and suggesting liberal should NOT celebrate it is the author and the person who made this thread. That wasn't the point of the study at all.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'm aware of the history of the day. Nonetheless, the church decided to choose a day in use so the people would not think they lost a holiday. It doesn't change the fact that the date is a different celebrations in Christianity. LJS9502_basic

No it's not, it's the same celebration, different meaning behind it.

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="theone86"]

No it's not, it's the same celebration, different meaning behind it.

theone86

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

So when it's not fun to debate anymore you resort to asking questions which have no bearing on the discussion whatsoever, why, because that's more fun? Are you a communist? Are you an American?

theone86

Could you explain how it is relevant? Does my nationality or ideology have any bearing on my argument? If I were a Texas conservative would my argument bear any more or less weight? It's only relevant if you wish to resort to ad homenim, in which case I don't find that particular line of argumentation worthwhile in the first place.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="theone86"]

No it's not, it's the same celebration, different meaning behind it.

theone86

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]So Satarnalia celebrated the birth of Christ. Awesome.LJS9502_basic

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

A celebration is not the meaning, a celebration is a set of actions. I eat cake for my birthday, I eat cake for my graduation, same celebration (eating cake), different meanings. The Christmas celebration was the same one year as it was the year before when it was Saturnalia, the only thing that changed was the meaning.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]So Satarnalia celebrated the birth of Christ. Awesome.BMD004

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

How do you figure?

Is the 4th of July like the 5th of November in the UK where nobody actually cares about it, we just want an excuse to start a fire and blow things up?

toast_burner

Pretty much, I love explosions. :P

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

theone86

A celebration is not the meaning, a celebration is a set of actions. I eat cake for my birthday, I eat cake for my graduation, same celebration (eating cake), different meanings. The Christmas celebration was the same one year as it was the year before when it was Saturnalia, the only thing that changed was the meaning.

Uh, no. You aren't celebrating eating cake. You're celebrating the occasion (birthday, gradation, ect.)

Same thing for Christmas. You aren't celebrating the date you are celebrating the occasion.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

I believe the democratic party is already petioning to have the 4th removed from July. The american flag is also a propaganda tool of the right wing and should be replaced with a banner of a vegan colony and a prius.

theone86

So as long as we're throwing worthless sterotypes out there, let's come up with an idea for the Republican flag. Oooh, I got it, how about an inbred redneck with a single-digit IQ, an AK-47, and a poster about communist/nazi conspiracies! Ah, what fun this is, don't let it stop, say something about how me and every other liberal are god-hating tyrants who want to destroy America, we've gotta keep this good vibe going!

Not everybody from the South is a redneck, or has a single digit IQ, is inbred, and I wish I owned an Ak.

...If you mean what it actually is in practice, an excuse for a bunch of people to get drunk off their asses and watch big explosions that make big sounds and use these manufactured images to force themselves to get all teary-eyed and emotional like a first-year drama student who just mastered crying at will, then I think I hit the nail on the head.theone86

A. I'll claim what I damn well please.

B. I didn't claim to know the entire country's motivation.theone86

Someone's mad.

That quote certainly seems to disprove point B.

is it me or anyone else gets the feeling people are getting dumber by the second?

is it me or anyone else gets the feeling people are getting dumber by the second?

Krelian-co

Good! Let's level Harvard university and deport all their moronic students and staff to Britain. If they prefer living under British rule, why not let them?Syk0_k03r

Regardless of the study, I doubt Harvard students or faculty qualify as morons.

Even if this is a sound study and completely true, why would we ban it? We don't ban things that have a political connotation. We embrace them as free expression, whether we agree with them or not.

... I'm on the next plane out of this country.XiaolinPrincess

is it me or anyone else gets the feeling people are getting dumber by the second?

Krelian-co

THIS JUST IN...Everyone with common sense confirms: Harvard University is Just Left-Win Social Engineering!

Sorry to say this but 4th of July will not end as a symbol of our freedom in the states.

The 4th of July is for American citizens to celebrate being an American and part of a free independent nation from our incredible history. It has nothing to do with politics. This is stupid.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Social engineering, no. A bunch of patriotic bull**** meant to inspire blind enthusiasm at best and jingoism at worst, yes. Frankly, I find patriotism to be a rather inane concept, basically being proud of something for the sake of being proud of it regardless of whether or not it's actually a good thing or a bad thing. It's nothing, though, that ****tacular summer blockbusters made by immature manchildren with hard-ons for angsty jerks who have a strictly linear moral compass don't do. The fouth is simply a Micheal Bay movie without an explicit narrative.

That depends on what you mean by the point. If by the point you mean what it was originally intended to be, a celebration of independence as a nation, then yes I missed the point. If you mean what it actually is in practice, an excuse for a bunch of people to get drunk off their asses and watch big explosions that make big sounds and use these manufactured images to force themselves to get all teary-eyed and emotional like a first-year drama student who just mastered crying at will, then I think I hit the nail on the head.

There are days when I feel thankful to have had mediocre enough highschool grades that I missed getting into my 1st choice private university and was forced into a less prestigious university. My diploma may be worth less but at least I won't be brainwashed in the process.

There are days when I feel thankful to have had mediocre enough highschool grades that I missed getting into my 1st choice private university and was forced into a less prestigious university. My diploma may be worth less but at least I won't be brainwashed in the process.

espoac

My family always celebrated the 4th....and we're Democrats.:?LJS9502_basic

There are days when I feel thankful to have had mediocre enough highschool grades that I missed getting into my 1st choice private university and was forced into a less prestigious university. My diploma may be worth less but at least I won't be brainwashed in the process.

espoac

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Social engineering, no. A bunch of patriotic bull**** meant to inspire blind enthusiasm at best and jingoism at worst, yes. Frankly, I find patriotism to be a rather inane concept, basically being proud of something for the sake of being proud of it regardless of whether or not it's actually a good thing or a bad thing. It's nothing, though, that ****tacular summer blockbusters made by immature manchildren with hard-ons for angsty jerks who have a strictly linear moral compass don't do. The fouth is simply a Micheal Bay movie without an explicit narrative.

Pirate700

[QUOTE="theone86"]...If you mean what it actually is in practice, an excuse for a bunch of people to get drunk off their asses and watch big explosions that make big sounds and use these manufactured images to force themselves to get all teary-eyed and emotional like a first-year drama student who just mastered crying at will, then I think I hit the nail on the head.airshocker

A. I'll claim what I damn well please.

B. I didn't claim to know the entire country's motivation.theone86

Someone's mad.

That quote certainly seems to disprove point B.

Ha! That's pretty funny.

i wish TC's link was to the onion, this is just as bad as people who want to outlaw evolution or any opinion outside of their narrow view.

These are serious findings folks. I've also found out that Thanksgiving is a Green party scheme to get people to vote for them. It's a conspiracy! /sarcasm

These are serious findings folks. I've also found out that Thanksgiving is a Green party scheme to get people to vote for them. It's a conspiracy! lowkey254

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

These are serious findings folks. I've also found out that Thanksgiving is a Green party scheme to get people to vote for them. It's a conspiracy! surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

These are serious findings folks. I've also found out that Thanksgiving is a Green party scheme to get people to vote for them. It's a conspiracy! Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Did I say that? Nope, don't believe I did. One year the celebration was Saturnalia, the next it was Christmas, same celebration, different meaning.

theone86

A celebration is not the meaning, a celebration is a set of actions. I eat cake for my birthday, I eat cake for my graduation, same celebration (eating cake), different meanings. The Christmas celebration was the same one year as it was the year before when it was Saturnalia, the only thing that changed was the meaning.

((.1 x .01)/100)x300mill = 300k? i think your calculator is set to two places 3000.00 is not the same as 300,000

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

((.1 x .01)/100)x300mill = 300k? i think your calculator is set to two places 3000.00 is not the same as 300,000

Engrish_Major