How do creationists explain Neanderthals and the other species of man?[NEW POLL]

Back to your statement, you are abosultely correct, if you believe in god then why dont you believe in the greek/roman gods? "Well theyre different.." no, they arent.

Well, yes they are different. The Christian God isn't just some character made up by man, he exists as something greater--a concept of a being that's infinitely wise, all loving and all powerful. So He's not just some God, but simply the only thing in the Universe which no other thing may be greater. That's why God must exist, because the greatest thing in the universe must have the attribute of "existence," since that which exists is greater than something that's just in your imagination. Praise Him!

mysterylobster

um. what the hell was that? Was that supposed to be logic? Mind = blown.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

How can I possibly argue against that?

You believe in a deceitful designer that gave us massive quantities of evidence to show that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and that we share a common ancestor with all the other animals on this planet? It throws out any evidence in ANY scientific field what so ever.

Are you serious? Are you really that ignorant and deluded?

Also, the bible mentions the earth being flat, a global flood, dinosaurs living with man and countless other scientific obscenities. Do you throw away all science which contradicts the bible?

Why then do you accept medicine? It uses evolution quite often you know :|

AGAIN, irrelevant science? Evolution is all about palentology,taxonomy,geology,physics,chemistry,biochemistry etc...these are all irrelevant? Huh?

mysterylobster

the_one, I'm serious about reading what I already wrote before responding. I feel like a broken record, just because people don't bother to read my arguments. I already said that God laid out for us exactly how he created the Earth. It's all right there in the Bible, so I don't see how he's being deceitful. These mysteries Darwinists are trying to unravel were simply part of his perfect design. It's better to just accept them rather than trying to figure them out. More than a century of inquiry has just culminated in the Darwinists having conflicting theories, and still no clue how the Universe came into being.

As for me being ignorant, please refrain from any personal insults. It serves only to diminish the effectiveness of your argument and also the civility of this forum.

"Also, the bible mentions the earth being flat, a global flood, dinosaurs living with man and countless other scientific obscenities. Do you throw away all science which contradicts the bible?"

The Bible never says man lived with Dinosaurs. If so, then the Bible deserves a lot more credit than it has gotten as a source of science, since it predates the identification of such creatures by more than a thousand years. I'll point you to the same book I suggested to another person, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Bible, which describes how much of modern science comes from the Bible.

Also, the science you're using is irrelevant because it doesn't directly contradict what I'm saying. Either find science that disproves what I'm saying or find a new line of argument. Either way, try to read what I already said before responding, thx.

I already gave you plenty of evidence to show that the universe wasn't formed in 6 days. Your response? "God made it seem that way"

Every single piece of evidence I show you is futile, it seems. Oh, and what does Darwinism have to do with how the universe came into being?

Do you realise that more than 98% of the scientific community accepts evolution? That is the same scientific community that gave us vaccines,antibiotics and have discovered SO MUCH about life in general; glycolysis,kreb cycle, sugar lipid chemistry, the discovery of DNA- arguably the most important scientific discovery in human history. Oh and it fitted exactly with evolution.

You have no idea what science is or what its about, you are only trying to fill up your MASSIVE gaps in knowledge with the supernatural.

What evidence do you want apart from palentology,geology,physics,genetics,genomics,taxonomy,chemistry and bio chemistry, since those obviously do not qualify.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Back to your statement, you are abosultely correct, if you believe in god then why dont you believe in the greek/roman gods? "Well theyre different.." no, they arent.

Well, yes they are different. The Christian God isn't just some character made up by man, he exists as something greater--a concept of a being that's infinitely wise, all loving and all powerful. So He's not just some God, but simply the only thing in the Universe which no other thing may be greater. That's why God must exist, because the greatest thing in the universe must have the attribute of "existence," since that which exists is greater than something that's just in your imagination. Praise Him!

smarb001

um. what the hell was that? Was that supposed to be logic? Mind = blown.

Disprove it if you feel it's in error. This thread is long enough without posts without any substance.

[QUOTE="smarb001"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Back to your statement, you are abosultely correct, if you believe in god then why dont you believe in the greek/roman gods? "Well theyre different.." no, they arent.

Well, yes they are different. The Christian God isn't just some character made up by man, he exists as something greater--a concept of a being that's infinitely wise, all loving and all powerful. So He's not just some God, but simply the only thing in the Universe which no other thing may be greater. That's why God must exist, because the greatest thing in the universe must have the attribute of "existence," since that which exists is greater than something that's just in your imagination. Praise Him!

mysterylobster

um. what the hell was that? Was that supposed to be logic? Mind = blown.

Disprove it if you feel it's in error. This thread is long enough without posts without any substance.

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

the_one34

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

mysterylobster

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

*facepalm*

why the heck would he do that?

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

mysterylobster

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

What? Now you're just confusing me. You believe that the earth was created in 6 days, about 6-10,000 years ago right?(this is like believing the earth is hollow,flat and does not revolve around the sun) And then God only made the earth look old?

*facepalm*

why the heck would he do that?

Heydanbud92

You do realize that there's no sense in arguing with him.

[QUOTE="Heydanbud92"]

*facepalm*

why the heck would he do that?

Genetic_Code

You do realize that there's no sense in arguing with him.

Yeah I've almost reached that point.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

the_one34

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

What? Now you're just confusing me. You believe that the earth was created in 6 days, about 6-10,000 years ago right? And then God only made the earth look old?

Yes, why do you think I've been telling you to try and READ what I've said before posting. That's what I've been saying all along.

[QUOTE="the_one34"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

mysterylobster

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

What? Now you're just confusing me. You believe that the earth was created in 6 days, about 6-10,000 years ago right? And then God only made the earth look old?

Yes, why do you think I've been telling you to try and READ what I've said before posting. That's what I've been saying all along.

Wow, now I'm even more worried.

Goodbye. This is useless, nothing will ever change your mind.

[QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

mysterylobster

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

if you don't see how stupid it is to bring the "god did it" argument into a science debate then no one can say anything, any proof anyone might show to you is dismissed beacose "god did it so" and science by defenition doesn't work with the supernatural. When you realise that your argument is useless in any science debate we might talk.

to make it easy:

science: proof->hypothetis->theory->new proof that doesn't fit with the theory->new theory

you: theory->proof->dismissing proof beacose it doesn't fit into your theory

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

Enosh88

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

if you don't see how stupid it is to bring the "god did it" argument into a science debate then no one can say anything, any proof anyone might show to you is dismissed beacose "god did it so" and science by defenition doesn't work with the supernatural. When you realise that your argument is useless in any science debate we might talk.

to make it easy:

science: proof->hypothetis->theory->new proof that doesn't fit with the theory->new theory

you: theory->proof->dismissing proof beacose it doesn't fit into your theory

I think it would be foolish to enter this debate without using the Bible. It's like entering a battle without a gun. The Bible is the source of modern science. It's held up to centuries of debate. It's the clearest and most authoritive document we have on the creation of the Universe.

Wow I just read more of mysterylobster's posts, and as a christian I am disappointed. I just want to say he DOES NOT speak for the rest of us. I found a quote:

"The fundamentalist mind, running in a single rut for fifty years, is now quite unable to comprehend dissent from its basic superstitions, or to grant any common honesty, or even any decency, to those who reject them"

I am frustrated when I see that some Christians think they need to argue against science. If god created the universe, and the laws of the universe, then is it so hard to believe that he created man THROUGH evolution? It's simple logic, no BS. God created the world and the laws of the universe. evolution is fact. Therefore god created evolution. Therefore we were created through evolution.

Non-Christians don't have to believe the first part, that's between them and god, and for them to decide. BUT Christians should accept fact, and that's why i am disappointed in them, or us, the most...

[QUOTE="Enosh88"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="the_one34"]

You've dismissed every single piece of evidence I've shown you, that's why to you they have no substance. Can you back up your claims?

mysterylobster

I've dismissed them all because they don't really say I'm wrong. If God made the Earth look old when He created it, then what point is there telling me the fossils are old? It makes no sense to even bring it up.

if you don't see how stupid it is to bring the "god did it" argument into a science debate then no one can say anything, any proof anyone might show to you is dismissed beacose "god did it so" and science by defenition doesn't work with the supernatural. When you realise that your argument is useless in any science debate we might talk.

to make it easy:

science: proof->hypothetis->theory->new proof that doesn't fit with the theory->new theory

you: theory->proof->dismissing proof beacose it doesn't fit into your theory

I think it would be foolish to enter this debate without using the Bible. It's like entering a battle without a gun. The Bible is the source of modern science. It's held up to centuries of debate. It's the clearest and most authoritive document we have on the creation of the Universe.

I see you still don't get it, I'll try it one last time

use the bible for all that I care, but if you are presented with evidence, you don't change the evidence to fit your theory, you change the theory to fit the evidence. The bible says the earth is 6000 years old, evidence says it is 4.5 billion. The bible is wrong as simple as that. If you have evidence to support your theory present it, BUT the evidence can't be supernatural, since you by defenition can't explain the nature with the supernatural you also can't use the bible to support the bible since that is called circular logic and again brings us nowhere. Well you can use the supernatural by throwing science out of the window at which point we get to a believe. You believe the earth is 6000 years old, scientist know the earth is 4.5 billion earth years old.

Just because the Bible does not mention them does not mean it refutes their existence.efrucht

if the bible mentions the creation of humans why not the creation of neanderthals? Also, the fact that other species of man existed is in evolutions favor.

mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?darkIink

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

[QUOTE="darkIink"]mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?mysterylobster

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="darkIink"]mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?zakkro

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

It does deal with how the human species came to be. That's us.

If evolution started at the time of our and the Earth's creation, then it could never explain how the human species evolved into our current state. All evidence, then, of our ancestors, was created at the same time as the formation of the Earth, in accordance with the Bible.

[QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="darkIink"]mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?mysterylobster

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

It does deal with how the human species came to be. That's us.

If evolution started at the time of our and the Earth's creation, then it could never explain how the human species evolved into our current state. All evidence, then, of our ancestors, was created at the same time as the formation of the Earth, in accordance with the Bible.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="darkIink"]mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?zakkro

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

It does deal with how the human species came to be. That's us.

If evolution started at the time of our and the Earth's creation, then it could never explain how the human species evolved into our current state. All evidence, then, of our ancestors, was created at the same time as the formation of the Earth, in accordance with the Bible.

Five days later. Soon enough.

[QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="darkIink"]mysterylobster can I have your opinion of the pope saying evolution should be accepted by catholics?mysterylobster

Notice that he said that evolution should not be an answer to the question of where we came from. Even if evolution is happening now, that doesn't mean evidence of evolution from before we humans existed wasn't created at the same time as the Earth.

It does deal with how the human species came to be. That's us.

If evolution started at the time of our and the Earth's creation, then it could never explain how the human species evolved into our current state. All evidence, then, of our ancestors, was created at the same time as the formation of the Earth, in accordance with the Bible.

five days later. Soon enough.

mysterylobster your going to hell because your responsible for my death because im commiting suicide if i read another dumb uneducated post saying "because god did it"... plus why are people still arguing with this guy? bigblunt537

:| Report back to me when you've figured what's wrong about that statement.

Poe's law... just... Poe's law. This is priceless.

I think there should be a poll on mysterylobsters age. No adult could be this dense.

Poe's law... just... Poe's law. This is priceless.

I think there should be a poll on mysterylobsters age. No adult could be this dense.

Red-XIII

You would be surprised.

Here is a question for everyone to ponder over? As we all know they are only 2 species of Elephant on the planet (African and Indian) right! well lets say for argument sake that 15000 years ago the last African Elephant died out. You only got Indian Elephants! Then some one discovers a skeleton of an African Elephant! What do you say,"Oh look they have discovered a new species of Elephant. that means there has been more than 1 species"! Or do you say "It cant be real. You cant have more than 1 species of Elephant!

The problem is this, Man is the only creature on the planet to only have 1 species where as every other animal has more so it is easier to accept the discovery of say an ancient species of Big Cat or whatever than another species of man. But you need to remember, Man is just another living primate mammal like the 5000 other species of mammal. Why shouldn't there be other species. I mean take the Anthropod (man like) primates. You get two species of Chimp, 2 species of Gorrila and other differnt man like primates. Why not another species of man? We're no different!

The reason no other species of Man is mentioned in The Bible is because The Bible wasn't written until around 27000 years after the last Neanderthal died! And they werent discovered again until 1829!

Did you know that Neanderthal brains and cranial capacity was bigger than ours and it is that that determines a different species

We are members of the family hominidae which also includes chimps, gorillas and orangutans. Why does there need to be another living species of humans? Why is that important to you? What would it prove?

[QUOTE="SouL-Tak3R"][QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

The proof is all there in the Bible, since that is how it is written. I believe that the Bible is the right way to understand the universe.

PATH0G3N

Seriously, for all we know it really could have been some guy writing a fake story for entertainment and for some reason people started believing it. The bible also said bats are birds and the earth is flat haha.

Like this, people used to believe in Greek Mythology. Because it didn't use to be myth at all. You tell them that or Native Americans back when that what they believe is myth they wouldnt like you very much.

And Christianity was actually based off other religions. And God wasn't always believed, so when did people randomly start believing in him instead of Athena etc. ?

Religion was formed to help man cope with fear of death, it evolved through the ages itself and people saw the power it held. Religious leaders became corrupted with all of that power. Like massive government, organized religion doesn't work well because of the massive amounts of power it holds.

Back to your statement, you are abosultely correct, if you believe in god then why dont you believe in the greek/roman gods? "Well theyre different.." no, they arent. The abrahamic religions will just fade away eventually and go down in history as more mythology.

You got any sources for that? I happen to agree with what you're saying 100% but would like to read a bit more about it all

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

mysterylobster

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

duncancameron23

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

mysterylobster

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

The problem wiith your argument is that it is unprovable either way. It is far simpler, however, to assume that the world really is as our empirical observations tell us. There is no need to do away with this assumption, because our empirical observations largely correspond.

[QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

mysterylobster

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

You are making things up. Where's your source for this? Where in the Bible does it mention God deliberately decieving his creation by creating misleading fossils?

it took god a while to get humans right... comp_atkins

I'm not sure he ever did. :P

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

Funky_Llama

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

You are making things up. Where's your source for this? Where in the Bible does it mention God deliberately decieving his creation by creating misleading fossils?

That's the only conclusion you can reach by what's given to us in the bible. If there's evidence of creatures that lived millions of years before man, then it must have been made to look this old when the Earth was created. There is no evidence that any of these things existed outside of what we've dug up from the Earth.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

mysterylobster

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

You are making things up. Where's your source for this? Where in the Bible does it mention God deliberately decieving his creation by creating misleading fossils?

That's the only conclusion you can reach by what's given to us in the bible. If there's evidence of creatures that lived millions of years before man, then it must have been made to look this old when the Earth was created. There is no evidence that any of these things existed outside of what we've dug up from the Earth.

:roll: Wrong. Other conclusions: 1. The Bible is wrong; 2. Biblical literalism is wrong. And those two have the advantage of not making things up. ;)

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="duncancameron23"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

Funky_Llama

Why would he bother to do that? This is the worst argument i've ever heard. It's just making up stuff to fit your belief in God. If you believe in God fine, but i know when i get in a plane it fly's because of the science that created it works. And i also believe if the human race can do that testing the date of fossils is just as reliable.

I can't even answer the question of why God would bother creating anything. I just don't question it. I do believe that science is is capable of dating these fossils, but the data they get is because of how God created them when he formed the Earth. Science can provide us with data that suggests things are true, but it comes up short in giving us real wisdom.

I do take offense to you saying I'm making things up. It's all pretty logical if you think it through. God ceated man soon after he created the Earth. If there are things in the Earth that appear to have existed LONG before man, then they were obviously made that way at the time of the Earth's creation. I'm not making this up, since that's how the Bible tells the story of creation.

You are making things up. Where's your source for this? Where in the Bible does it mention God deliberately decieving his creation by creating misleading fossils?

That's the only conclusion you can reach by what's given to us in the bible. If there's evidence of creatures that lived millions of years before man, then it must have been made to look this old when the Earth was created. There is no evidence that any of these things existed outside of what we've dug up from the Earth.

:roll: Wrong. Other conclusions: 1. The Bible is wrong; 2. Biblical literalism is wrong. And those two have the advantage of not making things up. ;)

There's no allegorical meaning that could be drawn from the creation story. It is what it is. As for the Bible being wrong, it's the foundation of modern science, many accounts in the Bible have been proven, and it's been our guide to the nature of the universe far longer than any flavor-of-the-month crackpot scientific theory.

That's the only conclusion you can reach by what's given to us in the bible. If there's evidence of creatures that lived millions of years before man, then it must have been made to look this old when the Earth was created. There is no evidence that any of these things existed outside of what we've dug up from the Earth. mysterylobster

Or, we could invoke Occam's razor and take out the god factor. We come up with exactly the same result.

There's no allegorical meaning that could be drawn from the creation story. It is what it is. As for the Bible being wrong, it's the foundation of modern science, many accounts in the Bible have been proven, and it's been our guide to the nature of the universe far longer than any flavor-of-the-month crackpot scientific theory.

mysterylobster

Why can't it have an allegorical meaning? Given the evidence, it makes much more sense to assume allegory than to postulate a decieving God. Simple application of Occam's razor. ;)

The Bible is the foundation of modern science? :lol: Fascinating. Please explain.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]That's the only conclusion you can reach by what's given to us in the bible. If there's evidence of creatures that lived millions of years before man, then it must have been made to look this old when the Earth was created. There is no evidence that any of these things existed outside of what we've dug up from the Earth. reiv

Or, we could invoke Occam's razor and take out the god factor. We come up with exactly the same result.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

There's no allegorical meaning that could be drawn from the creation story. It is what it is. As for the Bible being wrong, it's the foundation of modern science, many accounts in the Bible have been proven, and it's been our guide to the nature of the universe far longer than any flavor-of-the-month crackpot scientific theory.

Funky_Llama

Why can't it have an allegorical meaning? Given the evidence, it makes much more sense to assume allegory than to postulate a decieving God. Simple application of Occam's razor. ;)

The Bible is the foundation of modern science? :lol: Fascinating. Please explain.

Damn, you beat me to it. :lol:

[QUOTE="zakkro"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

Have you ever met a Neanderthal? No, of course not. You're simply going by what scientists have told you based on fossils dug up from the ground. But how do you know those fossils aren't just as old as us? I believe that God created the Earth around 6,000 years give or take a few hundred years and these fossils that get dug up were created at the same time as man and everything else. In other words, God created an Earth with the illusion of being millions of years old by inserting fossils of creatures that never existed and shaping geographic features. In His magnificance, he made a world for us that appears to be timeless.

mysterylobster

Have you ever met Henry VIII, then how do you know he exists?

Historical accounts, etc. We have no such resources to judge whether Neanderthal's existed. All we have are fossils, which as I said, were created by God when he created everything else.

The proof is all there in the Bible, since that is how it is written. I believe that the Bible is the right way to understand the universe.

im very curious, which part of the bible said that god put fossils on the earth to test us?

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

There's no allegorical meaning that could be drawn from the creation story. It is what it is. As for the Bible being wrong, it's the foundation of modern science, many accounts in the Bible have been proven, and it's been our guide to the nature of the universe far longer than any flavor-of-the-month crackpot scientific theory.

Funky_Llama

Why can't it have an allegorical meaning? Given the evidence, it makes much more sense to assume allegory than to postulate a decieving God. Simple application of Occam's razor. ;)

The Bible is the foundation of modern science? :lol: Fascinating. Please explain.

There's nothing deceptive about it. As I've said a few times already (please read what I've posted), God is direct with us in telling how He created the Earth.

You don't think the Bible is the source of modern science? I'll direct you, as I've done others, to a newish book called The Politically Correct Guide to the Bible. There are other sources, of course, but this one os the most available and asccesable for younger readers.

im very curious, which part of the bible said that god put fossils on the earth to test us?

linkin_guy109

The bible doesn't mention a lot of things. But the fossils are part of the Earth, and God does say He created the Earth. Also, I don't agree with your interpretation saying God is "testing" us. He doesn't spell out a lot of things directly, that doesn't mean he's testing our faith. If there were no mysteries behind God's creation, then there would be no science would there?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

There's no allegorical meaning that could be drawn from the creation story. It is what it is. As for the Bible being wrong, it's the foundation of modern science, many accounts in the Bible have been proven, and it's been our guide to the nature of the universe far longer than any flavor-of-the-month crackpot scientific theory.

mysterylobster

Why can't it have an allegorical meaning? Given the evidence, it makes much more sense to assume allegory than to postulate a decieving God. Simple application of Occam's razor. ;)

The Bible is the foundation of modern science? :lol: Fascinating. Please explain.

There's nothing deceptive about it. As I've said a few times already (please read what I've posted), God is direct with us in telling how He created the Earth.

You don't think the Bible is the source of modern science? I'll direct you, as I've done others, to a newish book called The Politically Correct Guide to the Bible. There are other sources, of course, but this one os the most available and asccesable for younger readers.

So God planting fossils to give the false impression of an older earth isn't deception? Just what definition of deception are you using? :lol:

I see you ignored my point about Occam's razor. Perhaps because you have no response. That, or you simply don't understand it. Which is it? :lol:

:roll: I'm not buying a book just on your recommendation. If anything, that's a reason for me not to buy it. Give me proof.

They don't explain it. Creationism doesn't explain anything, don't expect a good answer.

I don't think there's enough information about all the past forms of humans to regard them as a different species, or to simply even know they existed.orazinac

oh man I needed the laugh.

dear god.