How do you define gender?

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]

Soo...what our saying is...if I identify myself as a girl? Even though I am clearly a man. I can go into the girls bathroom or lockerroom? Cause clearly those signs are bigoted against me and my gender identity.

ShuLordLiuPei

If gender is a choice, but referred to in terms of he and she, then why do we still call animals he or she based purely on their anatomy?

6_Dead_360s

To me, gender is anatomical6_Dead_360s

[QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Gender is identity-based. It is only partially biological. Try again.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="campzor"] says who?campzor

people confusing gender for sex.

but as i see it, gender - in my view - is a self perpetuating phenomena. It's a social construct but you see gender and gender roles being subscribed to whether or not a religion dictates one or not.

The attitude of 'be whatever you want' i don't think will even work out that well in the end, nor get very far - as far becoming mainstream goes. From my experience, and this is also from a layman point of view, we are social creatures, we like to be in groups. We do it all the time because of common interests, religions, philosophies, hobbies, and yes even sex. I don't mean the sort of good ol' boys only club, i mean it on an everyday social level. and i'm speaking in general terms here, i'm not talking about the exceptions, like the girl who only hangs out with guys, or the guy who only seems to hang out with girls.

in my view, feminine and masculine compliment each other, either sex can take on either of the traits, but as i view it neither one is all that better then the other.

Still though, you will see a 'norm' settle in and personally i think it's inevitable and i think for the sake of the human race that is a good thing as well. The trick is dealing with and accepting the folks who lie out of that 'norm' and too often they get maligned and get the shaft socially.

Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????bobaban

Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????bobaban

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

There was nothing immature about my statement sir. I'm just showing my interpretation on this topic. And this topic is very....unstable?. Instead of answering my question you insult me and my standpoint. To me this line between gender and sex seems very thin. No reason to insult ;), the bathroom example was just to show how flawed this concept seems.MgamerBD

Using a function of a society that discriminates against trans* and genderqueer people to discriminate against trans* and genderqueer people. You don't see what's wrong with that argument? Your bathroom example is like asking if gays should be allowed in male bathrooms and locker rooms. Once again, it's a non-issue, and if that's the main "flaw" of the "concept" of there being other genders, then it must be a pretty damn good "concept"!

[QUOTE="bobaban"]Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????BygByron3

Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????bobaban

boobs and vagina women

penis and balls=man

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

6_Dead_360s

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]There was nothing immature about my statement sir. I'm just showing my interpretation on this topic. And this topic is very....unstable?. Instead of answering my question you insult me and my standpoint. To me this line between gender and sex seems very thin. No reason to insult ;), the bathroom example was just to show how flawed this concept seems.ShuLordLiuPei

Using a function of a society that discriminates against trans* and genderqueer people to discriminate against trans* and genderqueer people. You don't see what's wrong with that argument? Your bathroom example is like asking if gays should be allowed in male bathrooms and locker rooms. Once again, it's a non-issue, and if that's the main "flaw" of the "concept" of there being other genders, then it must be a pretty damn good "concept"!

Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????bobaban

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

ghoklebutter

I dunno, there's some pretty ugly chicks and you have to call them out on that.

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

Lockedge

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Yes to all.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

So...

SEX= XX or XY (male or female body)

Gender= Male / Female / Other (independant)

And we only refer to people as he or she to make them feel comfortable, and it's no longer politically correct to call them as you see them?

Correct?

Lockedge

"Traditionally, gender has been used primarily to refer to the grammatical categories of "masculine," "feminine," and "neuter," but in recent years the word has become well established in its use to refer to sex-based categories, as in phrases such as gender gap and the politics of gender. This usage is supported by the practice of many anthropologists, who reserve sex for reference to biological categories, while using gender to refer to social or cultural categories. According to this rule, one would say The effectiveness of the medication appears to depend on the sex (not gender) of the patient, but In peasant societies, gender (not sex) roles are likely to be more clearly defined. This distinction is useful in principle, but it is by no means widely observed, and considerable variation in usage occurs at all levels."

[QUOTE="bobaban"]Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????MgamerBD

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="Lockedge"] I'd like to mention that using chromosomes to determine one's sex is highly problematic.Lockedge

Also, I know there's no decisive test, but what are some other indicators of biological sex? Just wondering.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Yes to all.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="bobaban"]Also the argument about having a female mind in a male body is flawed logic. How on earth does anyone know what goes on in another persons mind, regardless of gender? I think I'm a zebra, I will act like a zebra, look like a zebra, and mate with other zebras, so I must be a zebra right????inartistic

If a person believes they are 6ft tall and 200 pounds, but they are clearly 4ft and 100 pounds, does that make a person 6ft and 200 pounds?

Do you see where I am getting at about this concept, life is unfair, even I don't feel right in my body sometimes, but I live with it.

If you get the post-op surgery and are content, more power to you. But to me the concept of gender and sex is what is between your legs. If you have both...take your pick.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Yes to all.

6_Dead_360s

[QUOTE="inartistic"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"] Exactly, I know many people that are very ugly but think they ae the most cutest people in the world. Doesn't mean their cute at all :lol:...such a flawed theory(and yes I know this is a bad metaphor, but I got many more too ;)).MgamerBD

If a person believes they are 6ft tall and 200 pounds, but they are clearly 4ft and 100 pounds, does that make a person 6ft and 100 pounds?

Do you see where I am getting at about this concept, life is unfair, even I don't feel right in my body sometimes, but I live with it. If you get the post-op surgery and are content, more power to you. But to me the concept of gender and sex is what is between your legs. If you have both...take your pick.

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]

[QUOTE="inartistic"] Well beauty is subjective and I disagree, many people who are labeled ugly are self aware... I have been all kinds of names reassuring me that I am ugly. How do you know what others think... Many girls/guys take alot of photos trying to get a decent one or to gage their proportions. inartistic

If a person believes they are 6ft tall and 200 pounds, but they are clearly 4ft and 100 pounds, does that make a person 6ft and 100 pounds?

Do you see where I am getting at about this concept, life is unfair, even I don't feel right in my body sometimes, but I live with it. If you get the post-op surgery and are content, more power to you. But to me the concept of gender and sex is what is between your legs. If you have both...take your pick.

Beauty is subjective, which is why I changed to the weight and height concept. To me sex and gender seems very concrete.

[QUOTE="inartistic"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"] ok...thats nice...like I said I have many metaphors.

If a person believes they are 6ft tall and 200 pounds, but they are clearly 4ft and 100 pounds, does that make a person 6ft and 100 pounds?

Do you see where I am getting at about this concept, life is unfair, even I don't feel right in my body sometimes, but I live with it. If you get the post-op surgery and are content, more power to you. But to me the concept of gender and sex is what is between your legs. If you have both...take your pick.

MgamerBD

Beauty is subjective, which is why I changed to the weight and height concept. To me sex and gender seems very concrete.

defining characteristics are the female and male organs.campzor

Those are the definitions accepted by most psychologists.ghoklebutter

are these the same psychologists who blame videogames for violence instead of bad parenting?campzor

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"]

[QUOTE="inartistic"] how do you measure beauty? Height is able to be measured (although height can vary slightly if you spine is compressed.inartistic

Beauty is subjective, which is why I changed to the weight and height concept. To me sex and gender seems very concrete.

If a person believes they are 6ft tall and 200 pounds, but they are clearly 4ft and 100 pounds, does that make a person 6ft and 200 pounds?MgamerBD

That seems like a utopian future, which will almost never happen. Why would you want to alter the world? Seems unnatural...seems stupid actually. And why should everyone stop worrying about appearance? This is what it means to be human, to have advantages and disadvantages, trials and tribulations. This is life..I don't see why anyone would want to change that.MgamerBD

I don't think gender is a meaningful concept
At least, I've never seen a meaningful definition of it

And yes, that includes that stuff about self-identifying. If whether a word applies to someone is entirely up to them, that word is clearly not well-defined

Gals must have the female reproductive organ and boobs for suckling the young. Guys better have the junk between the legs that respond to female stimuli. Yup. I'm traditional.

Primarily by the bodies, if they feel or have the brain of the opposite gender i feel sympathy for them but I will still call them for what their body is and was born as.

Some tribia if you didn't know, everyone is born with a vagina When the male hormone kicks in during pregnancy the sexual organ develops into what you call a penis I'll make sure to bring this up when I'm talking to a macho man, lol.

Primarily by the bodies, if they feel or have the brain of the opposite gender i feel sympathy for them but I will still call them for what their body is and was born as.

Philokalia

This entire thread makes me so incredibly...furious.. How -anyone- can be so so...so.. narrowminded and thickheaded is beyond me. Seriously, has no one heard of empathy? Even the people I would have thought to react strongly against transgendered people have surprised me more than anyone, in a positive way, because they are openly accepting of them! But noooo, those that should have been way more openminded, even those who have possibly gone through bullying or racism in their life seem to be aggressive and negative about the idea of someone being cisgendered. Humanity truly is evil.Deihjan

[QUOTE="Deihjan"]This entire thread makes me so incredibly...furious.. How -anyone- can be so so...so.. narrowminded and thickheaded is beyond me. Seriously, has no one heard of empathy? Even the people I would have thought to react strongly against transgendered people have surprised me more than anyone, in a positive way, because they are openly accepting of them! But noooo, those that should have been way more openminded, even those who have possibly gone through bullying or racism in their life seem to be aggressive and negative about the idea of someone being cisgendered. Humanity truly is evil.edo-tensei

If someone likes a sports team I dont like, I refer to them as the opposite gender.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Deihjan"]This entire thread makes me so incredibly...furious.. How -anyone- can be so so...so.. narrowminded and thickheaded is beyond me. Seriously, has no one heard of empathy? Even the people I would have thought to react strongly against transgendered people have surprised me more than anyone, in a positive way, because they are openly accepting of them! But noooo, those that should have been way more openminded, even those who have possibly gone through bullying or racism in their life seem to be aggressive and negative about the idea of someone being cisgendered. Humanity truly is evil.toast_burner

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Change the natural flow of life for a sexual/social acceptance? I don't believe in hell, but those people need to die in it. If you want to bend and shape the rules of the universe then at least have a decent cause.edo-tensei