How do you define gender?

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Edo-tensei, I think you're underestimating today's plastic surgery technology. Surgeons can craft a vagina that's indistinguishable from the "real" thing. Yeah, they might not be able to have kids but neither can males that are sterile or women in menopause. Does that make their sex "not real"?

[QUOTE="Bucked20"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Thats sex not gender.

toast_burner

Im sorry that I think human with dick=man human with p*ssy=woman

They already feel as if they are the other gender despite knowing their DNA says they aren't that gender. My question is why the f*** does it matter what their DNA says?

toast_burner

That's beyond the point.

Are you honestly too stupid to understand what he's getting at? JesusFunky_Llama

SO BOSS

Let me clairfy, so I dont get labelled as crazy biggot. I have no problem with transgendered people undergoing transgender surgery. But I'd rather that they receive the proper counseling and support first. Just because you can do surgery, doesnt mean you should. A lot of people with body dysmorphic disorders undergo lots of surgery, but it never solves their underlying problem. That's the point I was trying to make. Not sure how to spell it out.

Let me clairfy, so I dont get labelled as crazy biggot. I have no problem with transgendered people undergoing transgender surgery. But I'd rather that they receive the proper counseling and support first. Just because you can do surgery, doesnt mean you should. A lot of people with body dysmorphic disorders undergo lots of surgery, but it never solves their underlying problem. That's the point I was trying to make. Not sure how to spell it out.

sonicare

No, I don't have to look it up because that doesn't exists.edo-tensei

I never said they couldn't. I firmly believe people can do whatever they want that pleases them. I was raising the issue as to whether this is even a disorder or not and how it should be treated. You misinterpreted what I posted. But the comparison does make sense. Transgender issuess relate very well to dysmorhpic disorders. In those cases, people are preoccupied with a supposed defect or problem of their body. Much like transgender people, they feel that a part of their body is not right. Many of these people undergo multiple surgeries. Is that the best solution for them or would they have been better served getting counseling and psychiatric care?sonicare

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]This is disgusting to read. How can you even compare pedophiles and murderers to transgendered people? Transgenders don't harm anyone, pedophiles and murderers do. There's a big difference between them. Murderers and pedophiles do often try to get rehabilitated because there's something wrong in their head that makes them act that way. That's not hypocrisy, man.sonicare

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] I don't see man made vaginas/penis have real cecretions, nerve/pleasure placement or or natural physical/hormonal procedures. Please I require a link for such thing. edo-tensei

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Uhhh you're gonna have to look for that yourself, sorry. A lot of the stuff I find have NSFW pictures but just search "gender reassignment surgery before and after" on Google and click the first link.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="sonicare"]I never said they couldn't. I firmly believe people can do whatever they want that pleases them. I was raising the issue as to whether this is even a disorder or not and how it should be treated. You misinterpreted what I posted. But the comparison does make sense. Transgender issuess relate very well to dysmorhpic disorders. In those cases, people are preoccupied with a supposed defect or problem of their body. Much like transgender people, they feel that a part of their body is not right. Many of these people undergo multiple surgeries. Is that the best solution for them or would they have been better served getting counseling and psychiatric care?Aljosa23

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="edo-tensei"] No, I don't have to look it up because that doesn't exists.edo-tensei

and psychiatric care sounds like drugging them up so they hide the problem

Aljosa23

Things like ^this are what there should be more open mindedness and threads about.

I'd argue the fear and bias people have towards psychologists and psychiatrists is even a bigger problem than the depletion of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel waste.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

It's funny how a lot of you guy come here and call me names like "bigot" when you don't even comprehend my arguments. Then you call me ignorant to feel better about yourself.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]and psychiatric care sounds like drugging them up so they hide the problem

Things like ^this are what there should be more open mindedness and threads about.

I'd argue the fear and bias people have towards psychologists and psychiatrists is even a bigger problem than the depletion of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel waste.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

Willful ignorance is fun.ghoklebutter

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society

N30F3N1X

So defending transgender/transsexual people is pointless because they comprise a minority? That's a nice attitude.ghoklebutter

Drop the bullcrap.

I said it's pointless because there are more pressing matters, not because they compromise a minority.

Putting words in others' mouths, that's a nice attitude.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

N30F3N1X

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]So defending transgender/transsexual people is pointless because they comprise a minority? That's a nice attitude.N30F3N1X

Drop the bullcrap.

I said it's pointless because there are more pressing matters, not because they compromise a minority.

Putting words in others' mouths, that's a nice attitude.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]So defending transgender/transsexual people is pointless because they comprise a minority? That's a nice attitude.N30F3N1X

Drop the bullcrap.

I said it's pointless because there are more pressing matters, not because they compromise a minority.

Putting words in others' mouths, that's a nice attitude.

Also, FYI, being transgender and genderqueer has NOTHING to do with sex-reassignment surgery.

One again the ignorance of many shows itself when it comes to defining something beyond their limited minds. Sex is not the same as gender and gender is not the same as sex. Sex is based around reproduction, gender is based around personality. It isn't hard to figure out. The body does not define a person's gender, it's the gender they identify as which defines the person. You can never force someone who's gender doesn't match their physical body to be someone they are incapable of being. All that does is cause a great deal of depression and multiple suicide attempts in order to be free of the abuse and misery. I identify as female, my body was born wrong and developed as male. I don't identify as male, I never have and I have always hated being forced to be a male and being regarded as male, it's insulting, offensive, abusive and demeaning to be forced to be a man when I'm not one. The physical sex I was born with is a birth defect, a cruel act of nature. Can any of you who are ignorant of the difference in gender and sex even imagine what it's like to be born within the wrong physical sex that doesn't match your gender? Can you imagine the daily hell of seeing some stranger looking back at you in the mirror, of being seen and regarded as that stranger? Can you imagine what it's like to be repressed all through your life because of society's demands for conformity and perfection with no difference whatsoever? I doubt you can, to think beyond yourselves would be asking too much of people who are incapable of understanding that life isn't so black and white. Sex is merely sex, gender is part of something much larger and more complex than reproduction. And someone who is trans-gender is not homosexual only, someone who is trans-gender can be sexually attracted to females, males or both. So the whole 'trans-genders are just confused homosexuals' is yet another example of ignorance from a closed mind. And pedophiles and trans-gender have nothing in common, pedophiles are vile monsters that have a disgusting sexual lust for children. While people who are born trans-gender are people born in the wrong physical sex from the gender they are born as within in regards of personality and how they identify themselves as they mature into adulthood. A very big difference. But then I doubt closed minds can think very well beyond their ignorance and refusal to understand. Smokescreened84

Gender = the sex you identify with.

Aljosa23

/thread?

Also, FYI, being transgender and genderqueer has NOTHING to do with sex-reassignment surgery.

ShuLordLiuPei

That there are more pressing matters does not make this one pointless.ghoklebutter

No need to b!tch semantics, you understood perfectly what I meant.

From which you could argue inductively that there is precisely one and only one issue that everyone should be concentrating on

Funky_Llama

Correct.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]That there are more pressing matters does not make this one pointless.N30F3N1X

No need to b!tch semantics, you understood perfectly what I meant.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]That there are more pressing matters does not make this one pointless.N30F3N1X

No need to b!tch semantics, you understood perfectly what I meant.

I'm not b!tching semantics; I'm saying that your statement regarding "more pressing matters" is asinine. ghoklebutter

Meh.

My post regarding sight wasn't as inaccurate as I thought, was it :roll:

Good science this is a stupid thread.

The bigger issue is how you treat this issue. Is it a disorder? For body dysmorphic disorders, usually counseling is advised as opposed to repetitive plastic surgeries. Should transgendered people be counseled or should they be enabled to switch genders? I dont advocate the callous "just deal with what cards you were dealt" philosophy, but I'm not sure what the best solution for this issue is. There are many types of dysmorphic disorders where people are unhappy about some aspect of their body. Most of them are best treated by not enabling them. For instance, you dont perform gastric bypass surgery on an anorexic. But in the case of transgender issues, I dont know what the solution is.

sonicare

and thats Adams apple and balls and hairy legs and stuff , AussieePet

If they have a penis and testicals they are a man. If they don't they are a woman. If they have a prostate they are a man. If they have a uterus, ovaries, or tubes they are a woman. Its quite simple really.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] I don't see man made vaginas/penis have real cecretions, nerve/pleasure placement or or natural physical/hormonal procedures. Please I require a link for such thing. edo-tensei

[QUOTE="AussieePet"]and thats Adams apple and balls and hairy legs and stuff , FMAB_GTO

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]and psychiatric care sounds like drugging them up so they hide the problem

N30F3N1X

Things like ^this are what there should be more open mindedness and threads about.

I'd argue the fear and bias people have towards psychologists and psychiatrists is even a bigger problem than the depletion of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel waste.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

lol :PAussieePet

Also, FYI, being transgender and genderqueer has NOTHING to do with sex-reassignment surgery.

ShuLordLiuPei

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]and psychiatric care sounds like drugging them up so they hide the problem

Lockedge

Things like ^this are what there should be more open mindedness and threads about.

I'd argue the fear and bias people have towards psychologists and psychiatrists is even a bigger problem than the depletion of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel waste.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

Irrelevant.

I wasn't talking about trannies.

[QUOTE="ShuLordLiuPei"]

Also, FYI, being transgender and genderqueer has NOTHING to do with sex-reassignment surgery.

edo-tensei

Things like ^this are what there should be more open mindedness and threads about.

I'd argue the fear and bias people have towards psychologists and psychiatrists is even a bigger problem than the depletion of fossil fuel and nuclear fuel waste.

Let alone wasting cyberspace to debate acceptance towards an infinitesimal of our society :roll:

AussieePet

Irrelevant.

I wasn't talking about trannies.

Also, "tranny" isn't an optimal descriptor for transpeople.