I challenge any religious person to give me one rational reason for believing...

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Due to the whole world being literally connected now, we know the extraordinary no. of different belief systems that have been there with mankind. In the old times this was not possible as you only knew about the more popular ones and not the ridiculous amonts that we know off now.

MystikFollower

I'm not exactly sure why you're asking me for evidence, as you made practically the same point as I just did in your original post. However, you're assuming the fact that there's hundreds of different religions in the world as a reason to assume that it's all BS, but when early man tried to make sense of the incomprehensible, different parts of the world interpreted and understood it differently. Culture, environment, history, ect, all contributed to the many different belief systems out there.

And here's one rational reason for believing. I'd rather follow God and be completely wrong, then to abandon God and find out it's all true.

What about the baha'i faith? You believe their founder was guided by god as well? If not then there you have a religion with a different source. What about scientology? Is that the work of your god as well?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]I KNOW! I never got that, why do atheists always do this? I would like an answer. A legit rational one.Snipes_2

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]For crying out loud.... Why do you even care? Why are you demanding they justify their beliefs to you and if they cant they are being irrational? Why should they have to validate their beliefs to anybody in order to have them? Why should they try to validate their beliefs to somebody looking for reasons not to believe? Why should they have to deal with people constantly attacking their belief system for no other reason than they dont agree with it and therefore must destroy it? Who are they harming by thinking their is a god? Why and how does it bug you that they do? Will the world end if they continue to? If they continue to think this way will we all lose our rights and become a theocracy? Why even make a thread like this? Why should they bother trying to convert you? Why even bother asking with a mocking tone? BTW, I am an agnostic. I just find it annoying how so many atheists feel the need to attack religion. I dont care what they think and they have every right to believe freely without being attacked. Most dont bother anyone.MoonMarvel

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] I hate the zealots on both sides of the fence...live and let live...you can discuss things (which is fun) and agree to disagree rawsavon

Edit: Thank You for the invite. I will do my darndest to keep those kids off your lawn :D

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Thank God... I have a difficult time finding reasonable people outside of my own belief system to have calm, rational, open minded discussions with...rawsavon

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Thank God... I have a difficult time finding reasonable people outside of my own belief system to have calm, rational, open minded discussions with...Gambler_3

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]I am an agnostic, but I am a supporter of religious tolerance. That and I find religion interesting.MoonMarvel

It's not philosophical or scientific. It's based on faith. It's a belief, not based on rationality. There are no logical reasons.

Your argument is invalid.

The_AI

[QUOTE="The_AI"]

It's not philosophical or scientific. It's based on faith. It's a belief, not based on rationality. There are no logical reasons.

Your argument is invalid.

Solid_Snake325

[QUOTE="Solid_Snake325"][QUOTE="The_AI"]

It's not philosophical or scientific. It's based on faith. It's a belief, not based on rationality. There are no logical reasons.

Your argument is invalid.

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

Due to the whole world being literally connected now, we know the extraordinary no. of different belief systems that have been there with mankind. In the old times this was not possible as you only knew about the more popular ones and not the ridiculous amonts that we know off now.

Gambler_3

I'm not exactly sure why you're asking me for evidence, as you made practically the same point as I just did in your original post. However, you're assuming the fact that there's hundreds of different religions in the world as a reason to assume that it's all BS, but when early man tried to make sense of the incomprehensible, different parts of the world interpreted and understood it differently. Culture, environment, history, ect, all contributed to the many different belief systems out there.

And here's one rational reason for believing. I'd rather follow God and be completely wrong, then to abandon God and find out it's all true.

What about the baha'i faith? You believe their founder was guided by god as well? If not then there you have a religion with a different source. What about scientology? Is that the work of your god as well?

Yes, it is more examples of Man trying to understand and make sense of the incomprehensible and for them, that is Truth. Perception creates your reality and throughout thousands of years of history, Man has had some pretty huge differing perceptions about the world. The differences are great, but a lot of the cultural differences, histories, understandings, and environments are vastly different. Part of it was early man's fear of natural phenomena that sparked much belief in polytheism as well. You see, in order to find vast differences in religions you had to give me an example from across the world, and one that's based off a science fiction author's creation.

You keep saying my God as if I have some sort of personal ownership over it. I know I can't understand it and I accept that. Man has tried for eons to understand and that's where different faiths have come in, yes, even the Baha'i. In fact, many of the beliefs in the Baha'i, are beliefs that I agree with and have already believed in myself, before ever hearing about that religion.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]I am an agnostic, but I am a supporter of religious tolerance. That and I find religion interesting.MoonMarvel

And the reason why I ask religious people? Because they vigorously defend their beliefs, if they stop doing it then I'll stop calling them out.

But you didnt answer my question, what tolerance do you support of religion? Stoning of homosexuals? Punishing the people who engage in pre-marital sex? It's funny just how nasty things religion gets away with, it's all because people like you give religion undue respect as if it is some thing that deserves more respect from default.

And I believe in religious persecution what???

There are no real arguments for any specific religion. They'll just put it down to "faith", which as we all know deep down inside is bs.

There are no real arguments for any specific religion. They'll just put it down to "faith", which as we all know deep down inside is bs.

SgtKevali

How is putting belief in God down to faith BS if you don't mind my asking? I mean, since belief in God requires faith (since God cannot be observed, measured, tested, or understood) then you really can't say it's BS, without saying billions of faithful believers are BS, which I'm sure you wouldn't be so quick to make such aridiculous statement.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

There are no real arguments for any specific religion. They'll just put it down to "faith", which as we all know deep down inside is bs.

MystikFollower

How is putting belief in God down to faith BS if you don't mind my asking? I mean, since belief in God requires faith (since God cannot be observed, measured, tested, or understood) then you really can't say it's BS, without saying billions of faithful believers are BS, which I'm sure you wouldn't be so quick to make such aridiculous statement.

If your specific god cannot be observed what leads you to believing in it? You'd say faith, and I think that's a BS excuse. Sorry if it offends you.

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

There are no real arguments for any specific religion. They'll just put it down to "faith", which as we all know deep down inside is bs.

SgtKevali

How is putting belief in God down to faith BS if you don't mind my asking? I mean, since belief in God requires faith (since God cannot be observed, measured, tested, or understood) then you really can't say it's BS, without saying billions of faithful believers are BS, which I'm sure you wouldn't be so quick to make such aridiculous statement.

If your specific god cannot be observed what leads you to believing in it? You'd say faith, and I think that's a BS excuse. Sorry if it offends you.

I believe in a Creator because it's the most logical assumption, at least for me, based on the Universe we live in and the planet we live on. Plus Quantum Mechanics and classic physics are getting ever closer to understanding the basic nature of the Universe at it's basis, and what they are finding is something completely abstract, almost like thought or consciousness.

YouTube - John Hagelin, Ph.D on Consciousness 1 of 2

This Unified Field Theory is something I've been looking into and studying, and as crazy as it sounds, many of the suggestions being made by this theory, match exactly what a lot of spiritual texts I've read and studied have said about the Universe. And a personal reason that I maintain faith despite noempirical evidence is I believe in Jesus Christ and I trust what he taught. I understand why it's hard to have faith in the world we live in today, but it's hard to explain. Many of things I'm learning about spirituality and God are things that I've had an inner belief about since I was a child. Things that when I've heard them, it felt more like I was being re-told. It's difficult to explain, but I just see a majesty and vast depth to this Universe that I don't think could've just arisen by chance out of nothing.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] There used to be a couple people on here I could actually TALK to (not argue with)...one atheist and one agnostic. We would, you know, ask questions and discuss things without trying to prove anything...just open dialogue -but they are both gone :(rawsavon

Let me break this down.

What am I supposed to answer about your rant?Gambler_3

So just because you cant answer the questions I posed makes it a rant? Cop out, you cant answer my valid questions.

You seemed to indicate as if one can actually force anyone on the internet.Gambler_3

:? I am sure I am not the only who has no idea what you mean.

I love it whenever someone says that a TC of a religious thread is forcing the issue and is being intolerant.Gambler_3

Ok, so spreading lies and hatred of religion isnt being intolerant then?

Dude the intenet is not real life, a person can easily ignore this thread if they want to, even if I want to I cant force anyone.Gambler_3

Again, what? Who is saying forced in here? Besides you.

And the reason why I ask religious people? Because they vigorously defend their beliefs, if they stop doing it then I'll stop calling them out.Gambler_3

When was the last time a thread was made defending their beliefs? Are you saying they cant defend them, even when attacked? Come on. Publically stating ones beliefs is not wrong. Its freedom of speech and by stating your religion does not mean they are "forcing" it on you, surely doesnt mean they are attacking anyone.

But you didnt answer my question, what tolerance do you support of religion?Gambler_3

See what I mean? You dont support religious tolerance. You seem to not know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_toleration

You dont seem to tolerate other people having a religion.

Stoning of homosexuals? Punishing the people who engage in pre-marital sex?Gambler_3

Generalization.

It's funny just how nasty things religion gets away with, it's all because people like you give religion undue respect as if it is some thing that deserves more respect from default.Gambler_3

:lol: Who is letting religion get away with anything? Where have I done this? Its funny how you seem to think religious tolerance = letting them do as they please. Come on.

And I believe in religious persecution what???Gambler_3

Thats the way you come across, even in above comments. Its not my fault you attack them, I just called you on it.

Let me break this down.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]What am I supposed to answer about your rant?MoonMarvel

So just because you cant answer the questions I posed makes it a rant? Cop out, you cant answer my valid questions.

You seemed to indicate as if one can actually force anyone on the internet.Gambler_3

:? I am sure I am not the only who has no idea what you mean.

I love it whenever someone says that a TC of a religious thread is forcing the issue and is being intolerant.Gambler_3

Ok, so spreading lies and hatred of religion isnt being intolerant then?

Dude the intenet is not real life, a person can easily ignore this thread if they want to, even if I want to I cant force anyone.Gambler_3

Again, what? Who is saying forced in here? Besides you.

And the reason why I ask religious people? Because they vigorously defend their beliefs, if they stop doing it then I'll stop calling them out.Gambler_3

When was the last time a thread was made defending their beliefs? Are you saying they cant defend them, even when attacked? Come on. Publically stating ones beliefs is not wrong. Its freedom of speech and by stating your religion does not mean they are "forcing" it on you, surely doesnt mean they are attacking anyone.

But you didnt answer my question, what tolerance do you support of religion?Gambler_3

See what I mean? You dont support religious tolerance. You seem to not know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_toleration

You dont seem to tolerate other people having a religion.

Stoning of homosexuals? Punishing the people who engage in pre-marital sex?Gambler_3

Generalization.

It's funny just how nasty things religion gets away with, it's all because people like you give religion undue respect as if it is some thing that deserves more respect from default.Gambler_3

:lol: Who is letting religion get away with anything? Where have I done this? Its funny how you seem to think religious tolerance = letting them do as they please. Come on.

And I believe in religious persecution what???Gambler_3

Thats the way you come across, even in above comments. Its not my fault you attack them, I just called you on it.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

How is putting belief in God down to faith BS if you don't mind my asking? I mean, since belief in God requires faith (since God cannot be observed, measured, tested, or understood) then you really can't say it's BS, without saying billions of faithful believers are BS, which I'm sure you wouldn't be so quick to make such aridiculous statement.

MystikFollower

If your specific god cannot be observed what leads you to believing in it? You'd say faith, and I think that's a BS excuse. Sorry if it offends you.

I believe in a Creator because it's the most logical assumption, at least for me, based on the Universe we live in and the planet we live on. Plus Quantum Mechanics and classic physics are getting ever closer to understanding the basic nature of the Universe at it's basis, and what they are finding is something completely abstract, almost like thought or consciousness.

YouTube - John Hagelin, Ph.D on Consciousness 1 of 2

This Unified Field Theory is something I've been looking into and studying, and as crazy as it sounds, many of the suggestions being made by this theory, match exactly what a lot of spiritual texts I've read and studied have said about the Universe. And a personal reason that I maintain faith despite noempirical evidence is I believe in Jesus Christ and I trust what he taught. I understand why it's hard to have faith in the world we live in today, but it's hard to explain. Many of things I'm learning about spirituality and God are things that I've had an inner belief about since I was a child. Things that when I've heard them, it felt more like I was being re-told. It's difficult to explain, but I just see a majesty and vast depth to this Universe that I don't think could've just arisen by chance out of nothing.

Again, it's just "faith", and I don't base my beliefs on what I would like to be true, or hope is true. I base them on what is true.

It takes faith to believe in a god, and the one I believe in gives you a gift of faith to believe.

I won't go into any specifics, as a forum post can't provide any faith.

In fact, I would go as far to say that threads on religion or the lack of same are an exercise in futility, as all will continue on with what they believe or don't believe.:)

In other words, what's the point?:P

topsemag55

OMG you and me are in the same mindset, why do people keep on making threads when they know it will just stir up one side or the other. Its childish and really should be stopped unless its a argument that is valid.

Wow more threads attacking religion. IMAGINE THAT.

....in whatever god you worship instead of the thousands of other gods?

Yes only one reason and I will convert. Unfortunately making absolute statements is not allowed in this forum as it comes under "forcing your beliefs onto others and offending others". But I am struggling to find how is it even a debate anymore whether being religious is rational or not? Due to the whole world being literally connected now, we know the extraordinary no. of different belief systems that have been there with mankind. In the old times this was not possible as you only knew about the more popular ones and not the ridiculous amonts that we know off now.

You can make all the philisophical arguments and intelligent design in favour of a creator or personal god all you want but how do you even make an educated guess as to which god is the real one? You could feel the presence of god as intensely as it gets but you really dont have much of a choice apart from being agnostic...

Gambler_3

No thank you. Believe in whatever you beleive in and I will believe in my religion. I'm not a missionary. I don't have to validate my religion to you or anyone else. The idea of God isn't meant for us to understand, therefore God is interpreted in different ways. As just a man I don't know who is right or wrong, but I beleive in what I beleive and that's that I guess...

[QUOTE="The_AI"]

It's not philosophical or scientific. It's based on faith. It's a belief, not based on rationality. There are no logical reasons.

Your argument is invalid.

Solid_Snake325

Then it must be a really mediocre thread. The AI post is quite cliche

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

It takes faith to believe in a god, and the one I believe in gives you a gift of faith to believe.

I won't go into any specifics, as a forum post can't provide any faith.

In fact, I would go as far to say that threads on religion or the lack of same are an exercise in futility, as all will continue on with what they believe or don't believe.:)

In other words, what's the point?:P

njean777

OMG you and me are in the same mindset, why do people keep on making threads when they know it will just stir up one side or the other. Its childish and really should be stopped unless its a argument that is valid.

Because, mixing up the pot is fun, and the atheists know the religious have no reasonable answer to this question.

All those Gods you are talking about were all aliens that were worshipped like a God by people. There was no way to describe so they tried their best.

Flying in the sky in a metal wheel ring a bell? Give the alienssome credit for showing us how to live.

I see no reason why reason cannot itself be fooled by some factor of which I currently know not what. Given that I am unable to rule out the possibility that my reason could be fooled, I see no reason why to trust reason more than the senses.

Vandalvideo

How do you go about your day? For example, it might seem like a good idea to respond to my post, and you don't see why you shouldn't. However, there might be somethingthat makes it really important not to respond to my post, and you can't fathom what that might be...but it could still exist. How do you make that decision?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]Why is that most of these threads are started by atheists trying to either: -get someone to convince them religion x is correct (which is usually a thinly veiled attack) or -challenge religion x There are really very few threads started by believers trying to convince or be convinced (though there were a few notable users that did this who are no longer around) I have my theories....but I will leave it at thatMoonMarvel

Not something uncommon in these forums the last 2 years that I have been here.

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]Why is that most of these threads are started by atheists trying to either: -get someone to convince them religion x is correct (which is usually a thinly veiled attack) or -challenge religion x There are really very few threads started by believers trying to convince or be convinced (though there were a few notable users that did this who are no longer around) I have my theories....but I will leave it at thatTeenaged

Not something uncommon in these forums the last 2 years that I have been here.

I can't speak for what happened more than a year ago on this site (was not posting before May), and I can't speak for what happens to people in IRL (maybe they take their frustrations out here).
But what I can say is that I see very few threads made by Christians/Believers either proclaiming why what they believe is right or attacking non-believers
-though I will grant you that there was a wave of gay marriage threads where people on both sides of the issues behaved quite poorly...and I undertsand why this, especially, would bother you.

When I first started posting in OT, I was looking forward to having open, honest discussions with people from around the world about their different belief systems.
-how they were raised
-why they made their choices
-what their beliefs entail
-finding out how some Christians' belief systems differ from my own

...but all I found what a great deal of religious intolerance, insecurity (on both sides) which leads to lashing out, and flat out hatred.

So now I ghost most of these threads looking (usually just 'praying') to find something close to what I was looking for.

IMO you should not be posting in/starting a thread about religion unless you are secure enough in your beliefs to engage in real, open dialogue about what you believe and about what others believe
-from my perspective, most of this non-sense has to do with insecurities and nothing more
-there is a world of difference in a true 'question' and one that is thinly veiled as an attack

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"]I KNOW! I never got that, why do atheists always do this? I would like an answer. A legit rational one.rawsavon

Not something uncommon in these forums the last 2 years that I have been here.

I can't speak for what happened more than a year ago on this site (was not posting before May), and I can't speak for what happens to people in IRL (maybe they take their frustrations out here).
But what I can say is that I see very few threads made by Christians/Believers either proclaiming why what they believe is right or attacking non-believers
-though I will grant you that there was a wave of gay marriage threads where people on both sides of the issues behaved quite poorly...and I undertsand why this, especially, would bother you.

When I first started posting in OT, I was looking forward to having open, honest discussions with people from around the world about their different belief systems.
-how they were raised
-why they made their choices
-what their beliefs entail
-finding out how some Christians' belief systems differ from my own

...but all I found what a great deal of religious intolerance, insecurity (on both sides) which leads to lashing out, and flat out hatred.

So now I ghost most of these threads looking (usually just 'praying') to find something close to what I was looking for.

IMO you should not be posting in/starting a thread about religion unless you are secure enough in your beliefs to engage in real, open dialogue about what you believe and about what others believe
-from my perspective, most of this non-sense has to do with insecurities and nothing more
-there is a world of difference in a true 'question' and one that is thinly veiled as an attack

That person was pretty much flaunting the advantage theists have IRL when they express their beliefs. Yes atheism may have gained significant ground the last couple of decades but the situation hasnt been changed that much, for us to say that they are in the same position.

So its only natural that the atheists will try to compensate for the fact that they cant express their views IRL without being criticised by the majority of the people that will be listening to them (if not all - family, friends etc - and if not worse than plain criticism), by posting here on GS; the internet in general.

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

If your specific god cannot be observed what leads you to believing in it? You'd say faith, and I think that's a BS excuse. Sorry if it offends you.

SgtKevali

I believe in a Creator because it's the most logical assumption, at least for me, based on the Universe we live in and the planet we live on. Plus Quantum Mechanics and classic physics are getting ever closer to understanding the basic nature of the Universe at it's basis, and what they are finding is something completely abstract, almost like thought or consciousness.

YouTube - John Hagelin, Ph.D on Consciousness 1 of 2

This Unified Field Theory is something I've been looking into and studying, and as crazy as it sounds, many of the suggestions being made by this theory, match exactly what a lot of spiritual texts I've read and studied have said about the Universe. And a personal reason that I maintain faith despite noempirical evidence is I believe in Jesus Christ and I trust what he taught. I understand why it's hard to have faith in the world we live in today, but it's hard to explain. Many of things I'm learning about spirituality and God are things that I've had an inner belief about since I was a child. Things that when I've heard them, it felt more like I was being re-told. It's difficult to explain, but I just see a majesty and vast depth to this Universe that I don't think could've just arisen by chance out of nothing.

Again, it's just "faith", and I don't base my beliefs on what I would like to be true, or hope is true. I base them on what is true.

Well then there's no point at all in debating the issue :P. You know what you know to be true and I know what I know to be true. Truth is subjective, so I guess I'll see you in the next life brother.

There is plenty of evidence that human reasoning and senses arent all that flawed, if they were than how would humans have continued to advance so much in medical science and technology? How come I dont see a plane randomly crashing down cuz the pilot was suddenly fooled by his senses??Gambler_3

Lastly how exactly does your post argue in favour of a belief in god?? Heck I dont see what part of life does it argue in favour off? You dont believe in reason, well then dont study anything for your exam and have faith you'll pass anyways, you'll see what happens.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]I am sure many that do this do it as a reaction to theists doing the same to them: trying to convert them and/or telling them that they are going to hell/that life without God is life in sin etc.

Not something uncommon in these forums the last 2 years that I have been here.

Teenaged

I can't speak for what happened more than a year ago on this site (was not posting before May), and I can't speak for what happens to people in IRL (maybe they take their frustrations out here).
But what I can say is that I see very few threads made by Christians/Believers either proclaiming why what they believe is right or attacking non-believers
-though I will grant you that there was a wave of gay marriage threads where people on both sides of the issues behaved quite poorly...and I undertsand why this, especially, would bother you.

When I first started posting in OT, I was looking forward to having open, honest discussions with people from around the world about their different belief systems.
-how they were raised
-why they made their choices
-what their beliefs entail
-finding out how some Christians' belief systems differ from my own

...but all I found what a great deal of religious intolerance, insecurity (on both sides) which leads to lashing out, and flat out hatred.

So now I ghost most of these threads looking (usually just 'praying') to find something close to what I was looking for.

IMO you should not be posting in/starting a thread about religion unless you are secure enough in your beliefs to engage in real, open dialogue about what you believe and about what others believe
-from my perspective, most of this non-sense has to do with insecurities and nothing more
-there is a world of difference in a true 'question' and one that is thinly veiled as an attack

That person was pretty much flaunting the advantage theists have IRL when they express their beliefs. Yes atheism may have gained significant ground the last couple of decades but the situation hasnt been changed that much, for us to say that they are in the same position.

So its only natural that the atheists will try to compensate for the fact that they cant express their views IRL without being criticised by the majority of the people that will be listening to them (if not all - family, friends etc - and if not worse than plain criticism), by posting here on GS; the internet in general.

That seems very plausible.

But it does not change the fact that (IMO) there does not need to be any threads proclaiming or attacking.
If you want to make a thread proclaiming what you believe...I think the term here is 'blog it' (as there is nothing really to discuss)
If you want to make a thread attacking...I think the terms here are STFU and GTFO (intolerance really bugs me...but does that make me intolerant...hmmm)
-I am talking about people on all sides here

Now I would love to see threads that ask questions (without trying to argue/attack) and get legitimate responses (ones w/out users being all defensive)...but, alas, that seems to be impossible here

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]

I see no reason why reason cannot itself be fooled by some factor of which I currently know not what. Given that I am unable to rule out the possibility that my reason could be fooled, I see no reason why to trust reason more than the senses.

Palantas

How do you go about your day? For example, it might seem like a good idea to respond to my post, and you don't see why you shouldn't. However, there might be somethingthat makes it really important not to respond to my post, and you can't fathom what that might be...but it could still exist. How do you make that decision?

Because its easierto flow with the current than otherwise.

Also, limited life experience, probably being stuck

in the same location. Low iq may be involved too.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

I can't speak for what happened more than a year ago on this site (was not posting before May), and I can't speak for what happens to people in IRL (maybe they take their frustrations out here).
But what I can say is that I see very few threads made by Christians/Believers either proclaiming why what they believe is right or attacking non-believers
-though I will grant you that there was a wave of gay marriage threads where people on both sides of the issues behaved quite poorly...and I undertsand why this, especially, would bother you.

When I first started posting in OT, I was looking forward to having open, honest discussions with people from around the world about their different belief systems.
-how they were raised
-why they made their choices
-what their beliefs entail
-finding out how some Christians' belief systems differ from my own

...but all I found what a great deal of religious intolerance, insecurity (on both sides) which leads to lashing out, and flat out hatred.

So now I ghost most of these threads looking (usually just 'praying') to find something close to what I was looking for.

IMO you should not be posting in/starting a thread about religion unless you are secure enough in your beliefs to engage in real, open dialogue about what you believe and about what others believe
-from my perspective, most of this non-sense has to do with insecurities and nothing more
-there is a world of difference in a true 'question' and one that is thinly veiled as an attack

rawsavon

That person was pretty much flaunting the advantage theists have IRL when they express their beliefs. Yes atheism may have gained significant ground the last couple of decades but the situation hasnt been changed that much, for us to say that they are in the same position.

So its only natural that the atheists will try to compensate for the fact that they cant express their views IRL without being criticised by the majority of the people that will be listening to them (if not all - family, friends etc - and if not worse than plain criticism), by posting here on GS; the internet in general.

That seems very plausible.

But it does not change the fact that (IMO) there does not need to be any threads proclaiming or attacking.
If you want to make a thread proclaiming what you believe...I think the term here is 'blog it' (as there is nothing really to discuss)
If you want to make a thread attacking...I think the terms here are STFU and GTFO (intolerance really bugs me...but does that make me intolerant...hmmm)
-I am talking about people on all sides here

Now I would love to see threads that ask questions (without trying to argue/attack) and get legitimate responses (ones w/out users being all defensive)...but, alas, that seems to be impossible here

Because its easierto flow with the current than otherwise.

Also, limited life experience, probably being stuck

in the same location. Low iq may be involved too.

depend3ncy

Really...hmm
A very interesting conclusion.
I am sure you have done a great deal of research to be able to verify such an assertion.

Though I am glad you posted this.
It pretty much proves what I was trying to illustrate

Of course it doesnt. Personally I do defend the existence of this thread and the subject it raises but dont defend the certain predispostion that is evident in the OP.

Teenaged

I agree 100%
(why I clicked on it)

This thread COULD have been one in which the TC was legitimately asking for reasons why people believe what they believe (which would have been a great thread).
Instead, it was just an attack.

I can't speak for what happened more than a year ago on this site (was not posting before May), and I can't speak for what happens to people in IRL (maybe they take their frustrations out here).
But what I can say is that I see very few threads made by Christians/Believers either proclaiming why what they believe is right or attacking non-believers

rawsavon

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Of course it doesnt. Personally I do defend the existence of this thread and the subject it raises but dont defend the certain predispostion that is evident in the OP.

rawsavon

I agree 100%
(why I clicked on it)

This thread COULD have been one in which the TC was legitimately asking for reasons why people believe what they believe (which would have been a great thread).
Instead, it was just an attack.

Unfortunately, Gambler seems to have taken it upon himself to dismiss everyone's faith every chance he gets. This is not the first thread I've "debated" with him where he completely was there just to stir problems and not be open to discuss. He's a "I'm right, and you're irrational for believing what you do" type which, quite ironically, makes him a very unreasonable and irrational poster.

[QUOTE="depend3ncy"]

Because its easierto flow with the current than otherwise.

Also, limited life experience, probably being stuck

in the same location. Low iq may be involved too.

rawsavon

Really...hmm
A very interesting conclusion.
I am sure you have done a great deal of research to be able to verify such an assertion.

Though I am glad you posted this.
It pretty much proves what I was trying to illustrate

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="depend3ncy"]

Because its easierto flow with the current than otherwise.

Also, limited life experience, probably being stuck

in the same location. Low iq may be involved too.

Brainkiller05

Really...hmm
A very interesting conclusion.
I am sure you have done a great deal of research to be able to verify such an assertion.

Though I am glad you posted this.
It pretty much proves what I was trying to illustrate

The last factor is a possibility, based primarily on the people who consider themselves

of a particular faith, whom i have met over the years in person. Christian, muslim, hindu,

what is considered buddhism today

(in Thailand, with all the ritualistic nonsense that was nevera part of the original teachings).

Intelligence and experience correlate, imo. All these people that have not been exposed to

other cultures or differing ideas or attempted to investigate reality on their own were

pretty much equal in the depth of their understanding of many things. A very shallow

one. It became apparent as i looked further, that this approach was taken to life in general,

they caged themselves within a cell and covered their eyes and ears, as if unwilling to

see what is and being much more content with living in thoughts.

Nothing god or gods related makes any real sense under our human minds... The only answer is "god is a superior being he can do anything" or some other empty explanation. Sadly that is not good enough. Diablo112688

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="depend3ncy"]

Because its easierto flow with the current than otherwise.

Also, limited life experience, probably being stuck

in the same location. Low iq may be involved too.

Brainkiller05

Really...hmm
A very interesting conclusion.
I am sure you have done a great deal of research to be able to verify such an assertion.

Though I am glad you posted this.
It pretty much proves what I was trying to illustrate

I have seen some inconclusive ones that show Atheists have a generally higher IQ...but NOT ones that show Believers have a LOW IQ
-there is a world of difference in those 2 assertions (Like saying doctors have a high IQ and the rest of the world has a low IQ)

I have seen some inconclusive ones that show Atheists have a generally higher IQ...but NOT ones that show Believers have a LOW IQ -there is a world of difference in those 2 assertions (Like saying doctors have a high IQ and the rest of the world has a low IQ)rawsavon