Is it really "wrong" for grown men to be attracted to 13-14 year old g

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] Would you prefer I give you one from one of my psycholgy textbooks that matches the wiki one?harashawn

In my opinion, no. Pedophilia at it's worst is a slight genetic mutation, I see no problem with what a man is attracted to so long he keeps his infatuation private. Committing laws on the other hand, by molesting a girl of that age or downloading child porn, needs to be enforced for the disgusting and perverted act that it is.

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Yes, because if he has the attraction then he's likely to act on it. rawsavon

This is plain wrong. Many married guys have attractions to other women, but they never act it out. It's called self controll. As humans, we are capable of controlling our impulses. Even my dog is capable of controlling impulses.

Going to have to disagree with ya buddy. Not that I think pedophiles are good. They are not...but people have control and discipline, but it's up to the individual person to use that control.

For example, takeany type of attraction. I am very, very attracted to a lot of women I see walking around (albeit legal ones), but I control that attraction. I don't molest, harm, or other wise harass said women. I just think my dirty thoughts and pass by. Same concept. If what you say is true, then I would not be able to maintain and control my high lebido, but I know I can. It isn't even entirely difficult.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="psychobrew"]

This is plain wrong. Many married guys have attractions to other women, but they never act it out. It's called self controll. As humans, we are capable of controlling our impulses. Even my dog is capable of controlling impulses.

Going to have to disagree with ya buddy. Not that I think pedophiles are good. They are not...but people have control and discipline, but it's up to the individual person to use that control.

For example, takeany type of attraction. I am very, very attracted to a lot of women I see walking around (albeit legal ones), but I control that attraction. I don't molest, harm, or other wise harass said women. I just think my dirty thoughts and pass by. Same concept. If what you say is true, then I would not be able to maintain and control my high lebido, but I know I can. It isn't even entirely difficult.

[QUOTE="UltimoIce"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] Your analogy does not fit. He has a socially acceptable outlet for his sexual impulses (either pr0n or sex with his wife) Pedophiles do not. You are asking them to go their entire lives and maintain control the entire time...most other people could not do that...so I am not confident that they canrawsavon

Going to have to disagree with ya buddy. Not that I think pedophiles are good. They are not...but people have control and discipline, but it's up to the individual person to use that control.

For example, takeany type of attraction. I am very, very attracted to a lot of women I see walking around (albeit legal ones), but I control that attraction. I don't molest, harm, or other wise harass said women. I just think my dirty thoughts and pass by. Same concept. If what you say is true, then I would not be able to maintain and control my high lebido, but I know I can. It isn't even entirely difficult.

Point 1:

I know I would have that control my whole entire life. Because the desire to act upon it neither rises nor falls given time. It is a constant desire. It is no easier to control now than it would be in 2 years. I mean, I am between relationships as you know, and I haven't watched pr0n or anything since then, and although I have sexual thoughts about beautiful women, they are just in my mind. I have no desire to act upon them because I have control and logical reasoning abilities. It isn't like nature where the frog has a sexual inclination and then just jumps on the female frog.

Point 2:

Just because pedos are attracted to children, it doesn't mean they aren't attracted to other things. I mean, I bet you have more than one thing that churns your butter, amirite? Everybody has a few kinks. So just because they aren't fulfilling one sick fantasy they have, doesn't mean they aren't having any type of release. The people that obsess over such things, probably do have a problem. But that goes for obsessing over anything, legal or otherwise.

Point 3:

Everybody except lunatics show restraint. I don't care who you are, everybody has the inclination to do SOMETHING socially unacceptible. But we avoid doing those things our entire lives, and that is a type of control you are talking about. For example, I would love to be able to hit stupid people. When I am confronted by a selfish jerkwad, I want to punch them in the face. Like this stupid chick that started cursing rabidly at me and a buddy because we were standing in a loading zone talking for 30 seconds before I went inside. instead of asking me to move, she decides to run her mouth at me for 5 minutes. I wanted to demonstrate my desire for common courtesy by knocking out her teeth. But I would never do that, because I have control. Instead, I went and opened the door for her, and said "God bless". I overcame an instinctual feeling (anger), and instead acted positively. It wasn't difficult.

Point 4:

Go Big Red (football season soon).

Point 1:

I know I would have that control my whole entire life. Because the desire to act upon it neither rises nor falls given time. It is a constant desire. It is no easier to control now than it would be in 2 years. I mean, I am between relationships as you know, and I haven't watched pr0n or anything since then, and although I have sexual thoughts about beautiful women, they are just in my mind. I have no desire to act upon them because I have control and logical reasoning abilities. It isn't like nature where the frog has a sexual inclination and then just jumps on the female frog.

Point 2:

Just because pedos are attracted to children, it doesn't mean they aren't attracted to other things. I mean, I bet you have more than one thing that churns your butter, amirite? Everybody has a few kinks. So just because they aren't fulfilling one sick fantasy they have, doesn't mean they aren't having any type of release. The people that obsess over such things, probably do have a problem. But that goes for obsessing over anything, legal or otherwise.

Point 3:

Everybody except lunatics show restraint. I don't care who you are, everybody has the inclination to do SOMETHING socially unacceptible. But we avoid doing those things our entire lives, and that is a type of control you are talking about. For example, I would love to be able to hit stupid people. When I am confronted by a selfish jerkwad, I want to punch them in the face. Like this stupid chick that started cursing rabidly at me and a buddy because we were standing in a loading zone talking for 30 seconds before I went inside. instead of asking me to move, she decides to run her mouth at me for 5 minutes. I wanted to demonstrate my desire for common courtesy by knocking out her teeth. But I would never do that, because I have control. Instead, I went and opened the door for her, and said "God bless". I overcame an instinctual feeling (anger), and instead acted positively. It wasn't difficult.

Point 4:

Go Big Red (football season soon).

UltimoIce

1. IMO it is easier to say you would have self control thanactually displaying that control
-you have had sex
-you can watch pr0n

But put yourself (or what you consider to be the average person to be) in that situation.
I am not saying all will (there are strong enough people to resist). I am saying that there is a substantial risk that many will not.

2. But the thing is, my fantasies all involve women.
I cannot say that is the only thing they think about
But I can say (according to the DSM IV definition) that they have persistent, recurring thoughts for at least 6 months

3. Most people (staistically) do not abstain from doing what they want to sexually for their entire lives.
They find ways to act out their fantasies
-Most men think about sex every hour (usually more than that)
-Most people do not think about punching someone every hour...the ones that do usually end up doing it

Repressing a passing urge is quite different than repressing a recurring hourly urge
Pixel Pirate gave an example I used
-he said he could abstain from eating a hamburger if he wanted one...that is true
-but if you wanted a hamburger every hour of your entire life, eventually you will probably take a bite

4. I don't think it will be good times for Tech this year :(

[QUOTE="UltimoIce"]

Point 1:

I know I would have that control my whole entire life. Because the desire to act upon it neither rises nor falls given time. It is a constant desire. It is no easier to control now than it would be in 2 years. I mean, I am between relationships as you know, and I haven't watched pr0n or anything since then, and although I have sexual thoughts about beautiful women, they are just in my mind. I have no desire to act upon them because I have control and logical reasoning abilities. It isn't like nature where the frog has a sexual inclination and then just jumps on the female frog.

Point 2:

Just because pedos are attracted to children, it doesn't mean they aren't attracted to other things. I mean, I bet you have more than one thing that churns your butter, amirite? Everybody has a few kinks. So just because they aren't fulfilling one sick fantasy they have, doesn't mean they aren't having any type of release. The people that obsess over such things, probably do have a problem. But that goes for obsessing over anything, legal or otherwise.

Point 3:

Everybody except lunatics show restraint. I don't care who you are, everybody has the inclination to do SOMETHING socially unacceptible. But we avoid doing those things our entire lives, and that is a type of control you are talking about. For example, I would love to be able to hit stupid people. When I am confronted by a selfish jerkwad, I want to punch them in the face. Like this stupid chick that started cursing rabidly at me and a buddy because we were standing in a loading zone talking for 30 seconds before I went inside. instead of asking me to move, she decides to run her mouth at me for 5 minutes. I wanted to demonstrate my desire for common courtesy by knocking out her teeth. But I would never do that, because I have control. Instead, I went and opened the door for her, and said "God bless". I overcame an instinctual feeling (anger), and instead acted positively. It wasn't difficult.

Point 4:

Go Big Red (football season soon).

rawsavon

1. IMO it is easier to say you would have self control thanactually displaying that control
-you have had sex
-you can watch pr0n

But put yourself (or what you consider to be the average person to be) in that situation.
I am not saying all will (there are strong enough people to resist). I am saying that there is a substantial risk that many will not.

2. But the thing is, my fantasies all involve women.
I cannot say that is the only thing they think about
But I can say (according to the DSM IV definition) that they have persistent, recurring thoughts for at least 6 months

3. Most people (staistically) do not abstain from doing what they want to sexually for their entire lives.
They find ways to act out their fantasies
-Most men think about sex every hour (usually more than that)
-Most people do not think about punching someone every hour...the ones that do usually end up doing it

Repressing a passing urge is quite different than repressing a recurring hourly urge
Pixel Pirate gave an example I used
-he said he could abstain from eating a hamburger if he wanted one...that is true
-but if you wanted a hamburger every hour of your entire life, eventually you will probably take a bite

4. I don't think it will be good times for Tech this year :(

So you are saying man is not in charge of his own actions? If so, then we should do away with jail, because prison is punishment for wrong doing. If those people cannot be reformed, then why have a system of blame to begin with? People make their own choices. If they make a wrong choice, they suffer for it, it's the way of the world. Controlling impulses is what gives us human intelligence. I think about sex every hour, but it doesn't mean I need it. I know right from wrong, so as such I am a gentleman and would never pressure agirl into doing something like that, even as much as implications.

I am a proponent of the concept that people are 99.99% of the time responsible for their actions, because that is about the percentage of a time they have a choice.

And if this doesn't make sense, I apologize, there are people all around me fixing the ceiling with loud tools, and I can't focus on anything.

So you are saying man is not in charge of his own actions? If so, then we should do away with jail, because prison is punishment for wrong doing. If those people cannot be reformed, then why have a system of blame to begin with? People make their own choices. If they make a wrong choice, they suffer for it, it's the way of the world. Controlling impulses is what gives us human intelligence. I think about sex every hour, but it doesn't mean I need it. I know right from wrong, so as such I am a gentleman and would never pressure agirl into doing something like that, even as much as implications.

I am a proponent of the concept that people are 99.99% of the time responsible for their actions, because that is about the percentage of a time they have a choice.

And if this doesn't make sense, I apologize, there are people all around me fixing the ceiling with loud tools, and I can't focus on anything.

First lets determine what wrong is..mrmusicman247

Because I want to:

Pedophilia (according to the DSM IV)
Over a period of at least six months, recurrent intense sexual urges and sexually arousing fantasies involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 or younger).

What is the DSM IV:
Psychiatric Diagnoses are categorized by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th. Edition. Better known as the DSM-IV, the manual is published by the American Psychiatric Association and covers all mental health disorders for both children and adults. It also lists known causes of these disorders, statistics in terms of gender, age at onset, and prognosis as well as some research concerning the optimal treatment approaches.

Furthermore (according to Abnormal Psychology by David S. Holmes):
Page 481
"An important distinction has been made between those that have a preference for children and those who use children as substitutes for adult sexual partners...those who prefer children to adults are usually unmarried...their offenses are generally planned and form a consistent part of their lives."

rawsavon

I am saying that they ARE in control and ARE responsible as well. But there is a difference b/c 'can do something' (can control it) and 'will do something' (will control it) I do not have enough faith in man's self discipline when it comes to sexual urges to expect a lifetime of denial and control Unfortunately, there is no reform for this issue -we lack the ability to alter what people are attracted to Even for offenders, nothing works...not therapy, not chemical castration (the desire is still there...many still want to touch, fondle, insert other things) Basically, you and I differ on our faith in man's will power and control over sexual urgesrawsavon

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] I am saying that they ARE in control and ARE responsible as well. But there is a difference b/c 'can do something' (can control it) and 'will do something' (will control it) I do not have enough faith in man's self discipline when it comes to sexual urges to expect a lifetime of denial and control Unfortunately, there is no reform for this issue -we lack the ability to alter what people are attracted to Even for offenders, nothing works...not therapy, not chemical castration (the desire is still there...many still want to touch, fondle, insert other things) Basically, you and I differ on our faith in man's will power and control over sexual urgespsychobrew

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

[QUOTE="UltimoIce"]

So you are saying man is not in charge of his own actions? If so, then we should do away with jail, because prison is punishment for wrong doing. If those people cannot be reformed, then why have a system of blame to begin with? People make their own choices. If they make a wrong choice, they suffer for it, it's the way of the world. Controlling impulses is what gives us human intelligence. I think about sex every hour, but it doesn't mean I need it. I know right from wrong, so as such I am a gentleman and would never pressure agirl into doing something like that, even as much as implications.

I am a proponent of the concept that people are 99.99% of the time responsible for their actions, because that is about the percentage of a time they have a choice.

And if this doesn't make sense, I apologize, there are people all around me fixing the ceiling with loud tools, and I can't focus on anything.

rawsavon

Do you not believe sexual fantasies can ever remain within the realm of fantasy? What about websites that cater for those who have sick fantasies such as abuse, rape even? There are many places and images which feed the most urges of even the most twisted of fantasies, however a fetish for necrophilia played out in fantasy does not necessarily precede practicing in real life.Provocative (and widely accepted in society) images of females dressed 'schoolgirls' we see represented in conventional mainstream magazines - middle age men excited by such images won't necessarily take it to the next level and suddenly start hanging around school yards.

I think the angle you seem to be taking is one of extremities. Case studies normally focus on the individuals displaying excessive attributes of any given disorder and in those cases you probably have a point, however I don't think that necessarily means we allocate attributes of the extreme for all potential pedophiles.

For the sad individual abused as a child, fearful that he or she will do the same to their own children, the danger of sending a message of 'you are more than likely going to abuse your children; there is no hope for you; we cannot do anything' is likely to do more harm than good. It adds fuel to the fire of the baying crowd keen to lynch anyone with such a disposition. You're suggesting they cannot seek help as there is only punishment. Surely we're better than that…

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] I am saying that they ARE in control and ARE responsible as well. But there is a difference b/c 'can do something' (can control it) and 'will do something' (will control it) I do not have enough faith in man's self discipline when it comes to sexual urges to expect a lifetime of denial and control Unfortunately, there is no reform for this issue -we lack the ability to alter what people are attracted to Even for offenders, nothing works...not therapy, not chemical castration (the desire is still there...many still want to touch, fondle, insert other things) Basically, you and I differ on our faith in man's will power and control over sexual urgesrawsavon

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

I think one idea is, unless you have proof that somebody is going to or did break the law, there is no reason to outcast that person for there feelings or ideas. I also believe it is the parents job to take care of there children; there are sexual predators, and we should keep a close watch on our children. Teach them what to do in a bad situation, monitor what they are doing online, keep an eye on who they are hanging around. The fact is, persecuting people based on your beliefs isn't fair to anyone.

Surely we're better than that…

poptart

In regards to the fantasy websites...I do not know how a non-child could fit the bill for them (get the job done)
I will not totally discount it, but I would not put my hope in it either

I AM worried about the extremes (those that will act upon/can't control their urges...there are many that want to stop, but feel unable)

In regards to your last statement, I am open to suggestions
Hell atm, the entire psychological community would be open to suggestions...as nothing has proved to be effective.

Do not forget that I never said what I am advocating is 'right'
It is just the lesser of two evils in my mind

This (combined with some other things) is one of the reasons I left psychology

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="psychobrew"]

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

freetoex

I think one idea is, unless you have proof that somebody is going to or did break the law, there is no reason to outcast that person for there feelings or ideas. I also believe it is the parents job to take care of there children; there are sexual predators, and we should keep a close watch on our children. Teach them what to do in a bad situation, monitor what they are doing online, keep an eye on who they are hanging around. The fact is, persecuting people based on your beliefs isn't fair to anyone.

In our society (western atleast) it is frowned upon. Of course go back not even 100 years and the age of consent was but 13 years old. So is it really "wrong" in the questioning that takes out western values of context (I say western because I am not sure what is allowed/accepted in the eastern world) then its down to how your brain is programmed. I would say its natural since it is out of ones control to say what is good and what is bad. If you are attracted to something then you are naturally attracted to them. Same logic applies to homosexuals and how people questioned it and said it could be "cured" when in reality it is a natural thing to be gay.

[QUOTE="poptart"]Surely we're better than that…

rawsavon

In regards to the fantasy websites...I do not know how a non-child could fit the bill for them (get the job done)
I will not totally discount it, but I would not put my hope in it either

I AM worried about the extremes (those that will act upon/can't control their urges...there are many that want to stop, but feel unable)

In regards to your last statement, I am open to suggestions
Hell atm, the entire psychological community would be open to suggestions...as nothing has proved to be effective.

Do not forget that I never said what I am advocating is 'right'
It is just the lesser of two evils in my mind

This (combined with some other things) is one of the reasons I left psychology

I found Psychology to be a little 'inconclusive' in many areas – most things were grey and rarely black or white. Frustrating at times I must say…

But anyway, who knows what to do – it's a tough issue, which isn't help by this media induced fear of pedophilia. Kids don't play on the streets as much when I (and probably you) you were kids. I don't have an answer, although if I had kids who knows what I'd think...

Nope, it's actually the smartest move.

Younger the women(yes women, girl = no puberty. women = went through puberty), better chance the baby will be healthy.

I don't have an answer, although if I had kids who knows what I'd think...

poptart

Exactly.

There is n 'right' answer at this point in time. Maybe future generations will have better luck

In our society (western atleast) it is frowned upon. Of course go back not even 100 years and the age of consent was but 13 years old. So is it really "wrong" in the questioning that takes out western values of context (I say western because I am not sure what is allowed/accepted in the eastern world) then its down to how your brain is programmed. I would say its natural since it is out of ones control to say what is good and what is bad. If you are attracted to something then you are naturally attracted to them. Same logic applies to homosexuals and how people questioned it and said it could be "cured" when in reality it is a natural thing to be gay.

o0squishy0o

What he said.

Nope, it's actually the smartest move.

Younger the women(yes women, girl = no puberty. women = went through puberty), better chance the baby will be healthy.

Jamiemydearx3

Nope, it's actually the smartest move.

Younger the women(yes women, girl = no puberty. women = went through puberty), better chance the baby will be healthy.

Jamiemydearx3

Although the age of consent if fairly arbitrary in some ways, there is a reasonable argument that demands of society differs greatly from, say 200 years ago when a woman's roles were clearly defined in terms of housewife/mother. At least by the age of 16 a female should have a reasonable level of education under her belt to allow her engage in society beyond those traditional roles.

[QUOTE="freetoex"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] I don't have that answer sadly. I already admitted to pixel pirate that I know I am heading down a minority report style road. But I do not know what should be done -no therapy is effective -cannot change what one is attracted to -it is not reasonable to expect someone to deny their sexual urges their entire life -but even looking at pr0n (for that) perpetuates child abuse ...so what is 'fair' Punishing those that have done nothing wrong... Or letting them go free knowing they are a danger to little kids (destroying their life...possibly) I do not have the answer, but if I am going to short change/cheat one group, it would be the potential molester What I suggest is not 'right', and I am fully aware of that factrawsavon

I think one idea is, unless you have proof that somebody is going to or did break the law, there is no reason to outcast that person for there feelings or ideas. I also believe it is the parents job to take care of there children; there are sexual predators, and we should keep a close watch on our children. Teach them what to do in a bad situation, monitor what they are doing online, keep an eye on who they are hanging around. The fact is, persecuting people based on your beliefs isn't fair to anyone.

1. You can't know who; you do your best to protect and teach your children. This is a problem that cannot be completely solved. Not everyone acts on all of there thoughts. I don't care who thinks it, it's simple not true. It is people with lack of control, and mental problems commit these heinous crimes. Don't you think that the mental part of this equation has alot more to do with the actions then self control? We all practice self control, that is part of an organised society. If you insist that every man lacks self-discipline, then you are ignoring the majority of humanity.


2. Then each parents should do their best to remain aware of this fact. You would not mess up a child by teaching them the dangers. I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship, and educating your children about this (if done correctly) is not one of them.

1. You can't know who; you do your best to protect and teach your children. This is a problem that cannot be completely solved. Not everyone acts on all of there thoughts. I don't care who thinks it, it's simple not true. It is people with lack of control, and mental problems commit these heinous crimes. Don't you think that the mental part of this equation has alot more to do with the actions then self control? We all practice self control, that is part of an organised society. If you insist that every man lacks self-discipline, then you are ignoring the majority of humanity.


2. Then each parents should do their best to remain aware of this fact. You would not mess up a child by teaching them the dangers. I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship, and educating your children about this (if done correctly) is not one of them.

freetoex

1. Most people do not exhibit self-control in their daily lives
-risky sexual behavior
-overeating/eating unhealthy foods
-driving habits
...etc ad nauseum

So that is not a good argument.

As for your question, I think it is a mixture of
-weak will power
-mental issues (abused as a child, etc)
-opportunity
-character (lack there of)
...any combination can result in something happening

2. You would trust parents (think about all the parents across the country) to teach about sexual predators both outside and within the family w/out ****ing it up?
...there is no way in hell I would This has to be handled in a very delicate manner. You have to teach without implanting any preconceived notions.
This is made more difficult when dealing with a child.
TBH, I would only trust someone trained in how to do this

But you said " I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship"
I am curious how you are an expert...

rawsavon - you are mostly against the idea of older guys being attracted to girls in their early to mid teens. Yet you seem abnormally passionate about the subject. My uncle always told me to be suspicious of folks who "doth protest too much"

Not that Im accusing you or anything its just surprising how passionate and well researched you are on the subject.Diablo-B

... Anywho, I think you really mean it is less likely to get you modded on here.rawsavon

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] I am saying that they ARE in control and ARE responsible as well. But there is a difference b/c 'can do something' (can control it) and 'will do something' (will control it) I do not have enough faith in man's self discipline when it comes to sexual urges to expect a lifetime of denial and control Unfortunately, there is no reform for this issue -we lack the ability to alter what people are attracted to Even for offenders, nothing works...not therapy, not chemical castration (the desire is still there...many still want to touch, fondle, insert other things) Basically, you and I differ on our faith in man's will power and control over sexual urgesrawsavon

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

Once the floodgates are open, they will be very dificult to close. We could end up putting people in jail for any thought that's not popular with society.

Are you in college for psychology?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="psychobrew"]

Are you advocating that people who haven't commited a crime be put in jail simply because of their genetics?

psychobrew

Once the floodgates are open, they will be very dificult to close. We could end up putting people in jail for any thought that's not popular with society.

Are you in college for psychology?

[QUOTE="freetoex"]1. You can't know who; you do your best to protect and teach your children. This is a problem that cannot be completely solved. Not everyone acts on all of there thoughts. I don't care who thinks it, it's simple not true. It is people with lack of control, and mental problems commit these heinous crimes. Don't you think that the mental part of this equation has alot more to do with the actions then self control? We all practice self control, that is part of an organised society. If you insist that every man lacks self-discipline, then you are ignoring the majority of humanity.


2. Then each parents should do their best to remain aware of this fact. You would not mess up a child by teaching them the dangers. I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship, and educating your children about this (if done correctly) is not one of them.

rawsavon

1. Most people do not exhibit self-control in their daily lives
-risky sexual behavior
-overeating/eating unhealthy foods
-driving habits
...etc ad nauseum

So that is not a good argument.

As for your question, I think it is a mixture of
-weak will power
-mental issues (abused as a child, etc)
-opportunity
-character (lack there of)
...any combination can result in something happening

2. You would trust parents (think about all the parents across the country) to teach about sexual predators both outside and within the family w/out ****ing it up?
...there is no way in hell I would This has to be handled in a very delicate manner. You have to teach without implanting any preconceived notions.
This is made more difficult when dealing with a child.
TBH, I would only trust someone trained in how to do this

But you said " I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship"
I am curious how you are an expert...

1. That's not entirely true. You are assuming without a basis. You can't just state that because people don't follow social norm that they don't have self control, as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me, and what I want to control I do. What you are refering to is controlling other people. Self control, is controling urges, and I don't know about you, but MOST of us practice some sort of control.

2. You really don't think you can talk to your children about pedophilia? You think they will be scared for life for mentioning that they should be careful to never let anyone undress in front of them, maybe mention in a positive way that you love them and the world is inherently good, but not everyone is ok, and know the signs? What kind of parent will you be if you only trust trained professionals to explain elementary ideas to you own children?

If you are convinced that so many parents don't have the ability to teach their kids, maybe parental education is the answer.

PS. I never said I was an expert, but that I was familiar. I have dealt with pleanty of people that had maturity issues, and i have helped and talked people through alot of problems. Not to mention some of my own. Parents that hide information cause much more harm then parents that try to teach their children.

Can't this thread die now? Please?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="poptart"]Surely we're better than that…

poptart

In regards to the fantasy websites...I do not know how a non-child could fit the bill for them (get the job done)
I will not totally discount it, but I would not put my hope in it either

I AM worried about the extremes (those that will act upon/can't control their urges...there are many that want to stop, but feel unable)

In regards to your last statement, I am open to suggestions
Hell atm, the entire psychological community would be open to suggestions...as nothing has proved to be effective.

Do not forget that I never said what I am advocating is 'right'
It is just the lesser of two evils in my mind

This (combined with some other things) is one of the reasons I left psychology

I found Psychology to be a little 'inconclusive' in many areas – most things were grey and rarely black or white. Frustrating at times I must say…

But anyway, who knows what to do – it's a tough issue, which isn't help by this media induced fear of pedophilia. Kids don't play on the streets as much when I (and probably you) you were kids. I don't have an answer, although if I had kids who knows what I'd think...

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="freetoex"]1. You can't know who; you do your best to protect and teach your children. This is a problem that cannot be completely solved. Not everyone acts on all of there thoughts. I don't care who thinks it, it's simple not true. It is people with lack of control, and mental problems commit these heinous crimes. Don't you think that the mental part of this equation has alot more to do with the actions then self control? We all practice self control, that is part of an organised society. If you insist that every man lacks self-discipline, then you are ignoring the majority of humanity.


2. Then each parents should do their best to remain aware of this fact. You would not mess up a child by teaching them the dangers. I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship, and educating your children about this (if done correctly) is not one of them.

freetoex

1. Most people do not exhibit self-control in their daily lives
-risky sexual behavior
-overeating/eating unhealthy foods
-driving habits
...etc ad nauseum

So that is not a good argument.

As for your question, I think it is a mixture of
-weak will power
-mental issues (abused as a child, etc)
-opportunity
-character (lack there of)
...any combination can result in something happening

2. You would trust parents (think about all the parents across the country) to teach about sexual predators both outside and within the family w/out ****ing it up?
...there is no way in hell I would This has to be handled in a very delicate manner. You have to teach without implanting any preconceived notions.
This is made more difficult when dealing with a child.
TBH, I would only trust someone trained in how to do this

But you said " I am very familiar with what delays sexual maturity, and what stops a person from having the ability to have a normal relationship"
I am curious how you are an expert...

1. That's not entirely true. You are assuming without a basis. You can't just state that because people don't follow social norm that they don't have self control, as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me, and what I want to control I do. What you are refering to is controlling other people. Self control, is controling urges, and I don't know about you, but MOST of us practice some sort of control.

2. You really don't think you can talk to your children about pedophilia? You think they will be scared for life for mentioning that they should be careful to never let anyone undress in front of them, maybe mention in a positive way that you love them and the world is inherently good, but not everyone is ok, and know the signs? What kind of parent will you be if you only trust trained professionals to explain elementary ideas to you own children?

If you are convinced that so many parents don't have the ability to teach their kids, maybe parental education is the answer.

PS. I never said I was an expert, but that I was familiar. I have dealt with pleanty of people that had maturity issues, and i have helped and talked people through alot of problems. Not to mention some of my own. Parents that hide information cause much more harm then parents that try to teach their children.

1. That's not entirely true. You are assuming without a basis. You can't just state that because people don't follow social norm that they don't have self control, as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me, and what I want to control I do. What you are refering to is controlling other people. Self control, is controling urges, and I don't know about you, but MOST of us practice some sort of control.

2. You really don't think you can talk to your children about pedophilia? You think they will be scared for life for mentioning that they should be careful to never let anyone undress in front of them, maybe mention in a positive way that you love them and the world is inherently good, but not everyone is ok, and know the signs? What kind of parent will you be if you only trust trained professionals to explain elementary ideas to you own children?

If you are convinced that so many parents don't have the ability to teach their kids, maybe parental education is the answer.

PS. I never said I was an expert, but that I was familiar. I have dealt with pleanty of people that had maturity issues, and i have helped and talked people through alot of problems. Not to mention some of my own. Parents that hide information cause much more harm then parents that try to teach their children.

freetoex

1. What I said is true.

I did not say that people NEVER exhibit self-control. I said that they do not exhibit self-control all the time.
There is a huge difference in those 2 statements.

Basically anything you regret (99% of the time) was due to a lack of self-control
-who you woke up with after a night out
-driving too fast and getting a ticket (could injure someone else)
-raising your voice in anger and then later feeling bad

People fail to exercise self-control daily, but that does mean they fail to use it all the time

You said:
"as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me"
Really, you are going to go with that in this case...that the person determines what should be controlled...this is not something that is relative.
We are talking about possible criminal activity

2. There is not much I can say on this other than you would need to take a couple child psychology cla$$ and get back to me.
There are many things you CAN say to help teach a child
But there are many things that could impair their emotional development
one can be too guarded in life (or not guarded enough)

Reaching that balance on this issue would be something that would have to be done VERY carefully
-a mother preparing a child for the fact that its brother/uncle/cousins....even father could molest them
-what that really is (molestation)
-more importantly, what it is NOT
...I hope you can appreciate how delicate the situation is

Men who are attracted to underage girls are just hopeless romantics. And like all hopeless romantics they should have their balls cut off and be thrown in prison.

In truth, I'm 27 and I'm attracted to females of any fertile age, from as old as late 30's to as young as 13. If that makes me a pedophile then so be it, but it's not like I'm going out having relations with middle school girls, as I completely understand the morality in that a person that young is not capable of making mature, rational decisions and that's the whole idea behind the legal consenting age law. But on the other hand, I despise anyone who says there's something wrong with me for having the attraction in the first place.UT_Wrestler

You can't help what you are attracted to, but you can help how you act.

sonicare

EDIT: "The subject of subjectivity is subjective". My motto. You can't stop thoughts, and it's really silly to go extreme with judging anyone who has an attraction to young girls...boys...heh. As long as they're not doing something to said child(ren?), then there's no need to pull the SOS alarm. Nor is there a reason to judge. Maybe jest once in a while, but seriously judge them? Pfft.

Also, the thought of me myself being attracted to a girl that young kinda makes me sick. But so does seeing any homosexual acts. Take that as you will. :P

[QUOTE="freetoex"]

1. That's not entirely true. You are assuming without a basis. You can't just state that because people don't follow social norm that they don't have self control, as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me, and what I want to control I do. What you are refering to is controlling other people. Self control, is controling urges, and I don't know about you, but MOST of us practice some sort of control.

2. You really don't think you can talk to your children about pedophilia? You think they will be scared for life for mentioning that they should be careful to never let anyone undress in front of them, maybe mention in a positive way that you love them and the world is inherently good, but not everyone is ok, and know the signs? What kind of parent will you be if you only trust trained professionals to explain elementary ideas to you own children?

If you are convinced that so many parents don't have the ability to teach their kids, maybe parental education is the answer.

PS. I never said I was an expert, but that I was familiar. I have dealt with pleanty of people that had maturity issues, and i have helped and talked people through alot of problems. Not to mention some of my own. Parents that hide information cause much more harm then parents that try to teach their children.

rawsavon

1. What I said is true.

I did not say that people NEVER exhibit self-control. I said that they do not exhibit self-control all the time.
There is a huge difference in those 2 statements.

Basically anything you regret (99% of the time) was due to a lack of self-control
-who you woke up with after a night out
-driving too fast and getting a ticket (could injure someone else)
-raising your voice in anger and then later feeling bad

People fail to exercise self-control daily, but that does mean they fail to use it all the time

You said:
"as I said before, whose to say what I should control... me"
Really, you are going to go with that in this case...that the person determines what should be controlled...this is not something that is relative.

2. There is not much I can say on this other than you would need to take a couple child psychology cla$$ and get back to me.
There are many things you CAN say to help teach a child
But there are many things that could impair their emotional development
one can be too guarded in life (or not guarded enough)

Reaching that balance on this issue would be something that would have to be done VERY carefully
-a mother preparing a child for the fact that its brother/uncle/cousins....even father could molest them
-what that really is (molestation)
-more importantly, what it is NOT
...I hope you can appreciate how delicate the situation is

Edit: Yes, I am going with self control is relative. Almost everything is relative. Whose to say what things I do should be controlled (with the exception of course of things that can hurt others, like alchoholism for example.)