Is it really "wrong" for grown men to be attracted to 13-14 year old g

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

daqua_99

"We are talking about possible criminal activity." No you weren't, you mentioned non criminal activity: over-eating, drugs etc. You can't change what you said based off my response. My point was that we all practice some sort of self control, which you seemed to think is a miraculous affair. Comparing eating too much and child molestation is completely asinine.

Most of the things I mentioned were criminal activities/breaking the law(speeding, drugs, etc)
I intentionally included both things that are and are not against the law (over eat) to illustrate that people do not maintain self control ALL the time
Also, it has nothing to do with the legality of the situation (people kill, rape, steal, etc)
I NEVER said that we do not maintain it at all...just we do not maintain it all the time

Some people do maintain it more than others

So people have proven (every person that I have ever heard of) that they cannot maintain self control all day, every day...people's lapses vary in frequency and severity, but everyone has lapses

My point is that I do not place enough faith in people to maintain it at all times (b/c no one does)...especially with sexual urges

And no sir, I have studied child psychology(studying is different than obtaining a degree IMO), and I have to say that while you can harm a child at too young of an age, there is an appropriate time and amount of information you can tell your children. That is foolish to think otherwise. I can appreciate the delicacy of this issue, and I'm glad you do too. But I think it is going to far to say that you shouldn't be honest with your kids because you might hurt them. Protecting without over protecting, educating at the correct ages, and being there for your child is not only possible, it is a parental duty.

I did not say we should not educate children on this :?
I said that I do not think the vast majority of parents are qualified to do so (this is not the same thing as saying it is not their right...it is...but that does not mean they are best for the job/qualified to do so)
A parent can home school their child, that does not mean they are qualified to do so and won't **** it up

I am glad you are one of the good guys, and while I do disagree with you on somethings, I do admire the amount of concern you have. Make no mistake, I am not saying we go easy on criminals, but perhaps we can try not to jump the gun.

Make no mistake, I am a terrible, selfish person.
This just happens to be an issue (abnormal psychology) that I am passionate about.
I know all too well what we are powerless to help with therapy and drugs. So I am fearful for what will happen as a result

Edit: Yes, I am going with self control is relative. Almost everything is relative. Whose to say what things I do should be controlled (with the exception of course of things that can hurt others, like alchoholism for example.)

This is an agree to disagree situation then.
B/C, to me, it is never relative.
(almost) Everything you do affects another
-overeat = bad health = more expenses for everyone (unless you pay for everything out of pocket)
-speed = endanger others
-abuse drugs = could be a danger to others, could end up in the hospital, etc
-smoke = same thing

Now I am not saying that I do not do these things or that they make you a bad person.
What I am saying is that no one lives on an island, almost every action you take affects another.
So all our lapses in self control have the potential to hurt another
...that is why (almost) nothing is relative

freetoex

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

[QUOTE="freetoex"]

"We are talking about possible criminal activity." No you weren't, you mentioned non criminal activity: over-eating, drugs etc. You can't change what you said based off my response. My point was that we all practice some sort of self control, which you seemed to think is a miraculous affair. Comparing eating too much and child molestation is completely asinine.

Most of the things I mentioned were criminal activities/breaking the law(speeding, drugs, etc)
I intentionally included both things that are and are not against the law (over eat) to illustrate that people do not maintain self control ALL the time
Also, it has nothing to do with the legality of the situation (people kill, rape, steal, etc)
I NEVER said that we do not maintain it at all...just we do not maintain it all the time

Some people do maintain it more than others

So people have proven (every person that I have ever heard of) that they cannot maintain self control all day, every day...people's lapses vary in frequency and severity, but everyone has lapses

My point is that I do not place enough faith in people to maintain it at all times (b/c no one does)...especially with sexual urges

And no sir, I have studied child psychology(studying is different than obtaining a degree IMO), and I have to say that while you can harm a child at too young of an age, there is an appropriate time and amount of information you can tell your children. That is foolish to think otherwise. I can appreciate the delicacy of this issue, and I'm glad you do too. But I think it is going to far to say that you shouldn't be honest with your kids because you might hurt them. Protecting without over protecting, educating at the correct ages, and being there for your child is not only possible, it is a parental duty.

I did not say we should not educate children on this :?
I said that I do not think the vast majority of parents are qualified to do so (this is not the same thing as saying it is not their right...it is...but that does not mean they are best for the job/qualified to do so)
A parent can home school their child, that does not mean they are qualified to do so and won't **** it up

I am glad you are one of the good guys, and while I do disagree with you on somethings, I do admire the amount of concern you have. Make no mistake, I am not saying we go easy on criminals, but perhaps we can try not to jump the gun.

Make no mistake, I am a terrible, selfish person.
This just happens to be an issue (abnormal psychology) that I am passionate about.
I know all too well what we are powerless to help with therapy and drugs. So I am fearful for what will happen as a result

Edit: Yes, I am going with self control is relative. Almost everything is relative. Whose to say what things I do should be controlled (with the exception of course of things that can hurt others, like alchoholism for example.)

This is an agree to disagree situation then.
B/C, to me, it is never relative.
(almost) Everything you do affects another
-overeat = bad health = more expenses for everyone (unless you pay for everything out of pocket)
-speed = endanger others
-abuse drugs = could be a danger to others, could end up in the hospital, etc
-smoke = same thing

Now I am not saying that I do not do these things or that they make you a bad person.
What I am saying is that no one lives on an island, almost every action you take affects another.
So all our lapses in self control have the potential to hurt another
...that is why (almost) nothing is relative

rawsavon

(I do not believe an entire degree is necessary to be learned on a subject)

I'm glad you agree that we should teach our children. It is indeed sad the state of our society, wherein so many of the parents are not even educated enough to have conversations/debates such as this. Education is key.

I'm surprised this threads still going.

That very difference can cause eternal debate. freetoex

no, and I prescribe a dosage of anime

no, and I prescribe a dosage of anime

Overlord93

Well....alot of women in anime look like 12 year old girls....

[QUOTE="Overlord93"]

no, and I prescribe a dosage of anime

Pixel-Pirate

Well....alot of women in anime look like 12 year old girls....

:lol: I was just thinking the same thing.

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

rawsavon

See here I can see it going the way that I said. When I was 13 I heard of girls in my same year losing their virginity, and it wasn't just one or two, it was heaps. It used to be considered a no-no to drink underage or have sex underage, but it seems nowdays that you take the legal age, minus 4 years and that's what actually happens in society.

Whilst I get what you mean about getting a 'real job', but I think this is more of the fact that more people are going onto further education rather than gathering full-time jobs. Most 18 year olds here act, the majority of the time, like adults.

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

livingundead

I'm on my way.

[QUOTE="livingundead"]

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

hartsickdiscipl

I'm on my way.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="livingundead"]

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

warownslife

I'm on my way.

Lol.. good.

Genetically it is built in to be attracted to things soon after they reach mating age (puberty). Look at nature, or society 100 years ago

Is it OK to act on those genetic instincts. NO

I was never able to understand why it's wrong, it's pretty much the same as being attracted to an older women no? Just need to make sure you can control those urges.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="daqua_99"]

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

daqua_99

See here I can see it going the way that I said. When I was 13 I heard of girls in my same year losing their virginity, and it wasn't just one or two, it was heaps. It used to be considered a no-no to drink underage or have sex underage, but it seems nowdays that you take the legal age, minus 4 years and that's what actually happens in society.

Whilst I get what you mean about getting a 'real job', but I think this is more of the fact that more people are going onto further education rather than gathering full-time jobs. Most 18 year olds here act, the majority of the time, like adults.

Underage drinking is much more of a "no-no" now than it was a dedcade or two ago.

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

livingundead

It's 14 in many states as well (or at least it was recently). Concent, however, means you must have the parrents blessing.

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] Interesting, b/c I see it headed in the opposite direction. -with the delayed transition to adulthood across the industrialized world/increased period of adolescence, teens are increasingly seen more as children and less as adults in the world. -18 used to be seen as 'grown' (get your real job at that age in the 1950's)...now it is still seen as just a kid...heck, the same could be said of someone that is 21 now We have, essentially, increased the ages we define as children and adolescentspsychobrew

See here I can see it going the way that I said. When I was 13 I heard of girls in my same year losing their virginity, and it wasn't just one or two, it was heaps. It used to be considered a no-no to drink underage or have sex underage, but it seems nowdays that you take the legal age, minus 4 years and that's what actually happens in society.

Whilst I get what you mean about getting a 'real job', but I think this is more of the fact that more people are going onto further education rather than gathering full-time jobs. Most 18 year olds here act, the majority of the time, like adults.

Underage drinking is much more of a "no-no" now than it was a dedcade or two ago.

[QUOTE="livingundead"]

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

psychobrew

It's 14 in many states as well (or at least it was recently). Concent, however, means you must have the parrents blessing.

[QUOTE="livingundead"]

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

psychobrew

It's 14 in many states as well (or at least it was recently). Concent, however, means you must have the parrents blessing.

I keep knocking on doors, but none of the parents will give consent! :cry:

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="livingundead"]

Not sure if this was posted, but if being attracted to 13-14 year-old girls is a problem than I suggest moving to Canada and becoming a citizen. The age of legal consent in Canada (Ontario specifically) is 14 years old.

hartsickdiscipl

It's 14 in many states as well (or at least it was recently). Concent, however, means you must have the parrents blessing.

I keep knocking on doors, but none of the parents will give consent! :cry:

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

It's 14 in many states as well (or at least it was recently). Concent, however, means you must have the parrents blessing.

warownslife

I keep knocking on doors, but none of the parents will give consent! :cry:

Not at all. I just think hard age limits on sex are ridiculous by nature. Plus I thought somebody knocking on doors asking for consent painted a funny picture.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="daqua_99"]

Please don't shoot me down in flames for saying this, or insinuate anything more than what I put down in words, but I think this will become more of a contentious issue over the next century.

If you look back 50 to 100 years ago, people were having this same argument about homosexuality. Back then it was widely frowned upon, for example, to be homosexual, whilst now it is more 'socially accepted' to be attracted to the same sex. What I dread might happen in the future is that this same process will go on with people wanting sexual intercourse with people in their early teens.

I'm not drawing similarities between the movement of increased rights of homosexuals and rights of those who fantasise about underage people, I'm drawing similarities between the process of the development of social change on these issues. It's like looking back to try and foresee what will happen in the future

daqua_99

See here I can see it going the way that I said. When I was 13 I heard of girls in my same year losing their virginity, and it wasn't just one or two, it was heaps. It used to be considered a no-no to drink underage or have sex underage, but it seems nowdays that you take the legal age, minus 4 years and that's what actually happens in society.

Whilst I get what you mean about getting a 'real job', but I think this is more of the fact that more people are going onto further education rather than gathering full-time jobs. Most 18 year olds here act, the majority of the time, like adults.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Overlord93"]

no, and I prescribe a dosage of anime

Celldrax

Well....alot of women in anime look like 12 year old girls....

:lol: I was just thinking the same thing.

Hell, the girl in my sig? 17 years old at series start.

I'm sure some of you are going to post just from reading the topic and not read this, just watch. Anyhow, I understand why any type of intimacy is illegal with the age difference, a person that young is not yet capable of making responsible decisions, and so yes, I do believe it would be wrong for a grown man to act on such impulse. But, why is it considered "wrong" or "unnatural"just to have the attraction? Males are instinctively programmed to be attracted to fertile females, and girls reach fertility age at around 13, some even a little younger. So illegal or not, does a man really need therapy just for having the attraction?

UT_Wrestler

Interesting thread, it's natural, but doing anything involving acting isn't...

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]

I'm sure some of you are going to post just from reading the topic and not read this, just watch. Anyhow, I understand why any type of intimacy is illegal with the age difference, a person that young is not yet capable of making responsible decisions, and so yes, I do believe it would be wrong for a grown man to act on such impulse. But, why is it considered "wrong" or "unnatural"just to have the attraction? Males are instinctively programmed to be attracted to fertile females, and girls reach fertility age at around 13, some even a little younger. So illegal or not, does a man really need therapy just for having the attraction?

mmwmwmmwmwmm

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]

I'm sure some of you are going to post just from reading the topic and not read this, just watch. Anyhow, I understand why any type of intimacy is illegal with the age difference, a person that young is not yet capable of making responsible decisions, and so yes, I do believe it would be wrong for a grown man to act on such impulse. But, why is it considered "wrong" or "unnatural"just to have the attraction? Males are instinctively programmed to be attracted to fertile females, and girls reach fertility age at around 13, some even a little younger. So illegal or not, does a man really need therapy just for having the attraction?

memphishigh

Yes, it is wrong. Stick to women, not girls.

Yes. It's wrong, and it's not terribly normal for a grown man to be attracted to a preteen/early teen either.

13-14 is a little too young, but I'd **** a 16 year old in a heartbeat if she was hot enough.The_Weird_Guy

Yes it is wrong. Stick with ladies of your age and you shall be ok.

It is indeed severely wrong.

[QUOTE="memphishigh"][QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]I don't think there is anything wrong as long as the attraction isn't acted on. I don't really believe that anything is universally right or wrong, though.

Overlord93

I really don't have time to go into the difference between killing and murder but vidoegames arent real anyway

Stick to women, not girls.

PiscesChick93

There aren't many arguments that can call 13-14 year old attraction by older people wrong w/o also infering that homosexuality is wrong. Though one argument is that homosexuals actually have meaningful relationships, it's not always about physical attraction or sex. Whenever a pedophile is attracted to a 13-14 year old, etc. It's mostly just physical... No grown man can relate to a 13 old girl in a meaningful loving way...

munu9

First lets determine what wrong is..mrmusicman247

As long as you don't act upon these emotions I don't think its wrong. Just keep it in your head.