North Carolina Pastor: Beat the gaaay out of your children!

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]I think I can sleep quite soundly without your respectFunky_Llama

I view religious belief as no more than mere opinions. If you don't like homosexuality because your religion says so, it really doesn't matter, you're still homophobic and no excuse will change that.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Well? I'm right, aren't I? With what frequency do Christians respond to counterarguments to their religious beliefs by changing their beliefs rather than just digging their heels in?Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Thats a terrible arguement. Lets say someone beats you up and amputates your arm. Well he could have killed you but he didn't, so no reason to punish him.

toast_burner

So? That still doesn't mean not allowing them to marry isn't a bad thing and should be complained about.

Here's another example, when blacks weren't allowed to marry whites, should they just have been grateful that slavery had ended and shut up?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Do you act the same around religious people in real life? Because I know e-respect doesn't matter to you, it doesn't really matter to anyone for that matter, but certainly respect in the real world does. toast_burner

I view religious belief as no more than mere opinions. If you don't like homosexuality because your religion says so, it really doesn't matter, you're still homophobic and no excuse will change that.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Well, that depends most people who identify as religious in the UK are pretty harmless and tolerant, so by default, no ALTHOUGH if they turn out to adhere to your kind of religious lunacy, then yes, I am generally quite abrasivekingkong0124

I view religious belief as no more than mere opinions. If you don't like homosexuality because your religion says so, it really doesn't matter, you're still homophobic and no excuse will change that.

The word homophobia also means dislike, not just fear. Also arguing semantics is just a way to avoid the actual question.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] Depends on the individual, obviously, as with most other demographics. Not all Christians are young Earth creationists who deny all scientific evidence, and your implication to the contrary says more about you than it does the demographic at large.mattbbpl

How am I scared of it? Because I think it's wrong, I must be scared? So I'm scared of pedophiles because they're wrong? kingkong0124

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]How am I scared of it? Because I think it's wrong, I must be scared? So I'm scared of pedophiles because they're wrong? Zeviander

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]This is true.

I view religious belief as no more than mere opinions. If you don't like homosexuality because your religion says so, it really doesn't matter, you're still homophobic and no excuse will change that.

toast_burner

The word homophobia also means dislike, not just fear. Also arguing semantics is just a way to avoid the actual question.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

I think he's against it in the moral sense. While I do believe that is is morally wrong, I do believe in the freedom that my country allows and I have no problem with it being practiced, as long as all the participants are willing.

kingkong0124

There was a time when most nations and communities were ethnically, culturally, and religiously homogenous. This allowed them to rely upon common religious principles and traditions when crafting public laws and public moral requirements. Those who objected could be either suppressed or ejected with little problem. This is the historical background and context of the religious moral values which people still try to use as a basis for public laws today; unfortunately for them, nations and communities are changing dramatically.

More and more, human communities are becoming ethnically, culturally, and religiously diverse. There is no longer a single set of religious principles and traditions which community leaders can unthinkingly rely upon for crafting public laws or standards.

In place of traditional moral values, we should instead rely upon godless, secular values which are themselves derived from human reason, human empathy, and human experience. Human communities exist for the benefit of human beings and the same is true for human values and human morality. We need secular values as a basis for public laws because only godless, secular values are independent of the many religious traditions in a community.

This doesn't mean that religious believers who act on the basis of private religious values have nothing to offer public discussions, but it does mean that they cannot insist that public morality be defined according to those private religious values. Whatever they believe personally, they must also articulate those moral principles in terms of public reason - to explain why those values are justified on the basis of human reason, experience, and empathy rather than acceptance of the divine origins of some set of revelations or scriptures.

I'm not attacking you, just trying to get across that not everyone is a Christian and not everyone has the same moral values. Im glad you said you have no problem with allowing gay marriage, (at least I think you said that), because it would be silly to think that a ban on gay marriage isn't a infringement on everyone else's moral values that don't align with your religious values.

I guess most of the world is a closet homo then. kingkong0124

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] How am I scared of it? Because I think it's wrong, I must be scared? So I'm scared of pedophiles because they're wrong? kingkong0124

The word homophobia also means dislike, not just fear. Also arguing semantics is just a way to avoid the actual question.

Well do you disagree with what i said that religion is no excuse to what people think? Why does it matter if they think something because they read it in a book, or because they were raised to believe it, etc?

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]I guess most of the world is a closet homo then. Zeviander

It's 2012. If you don't support gay marriage, youre either terribly brought up, misinformed, or a jack ass. Gay people live harder lives than straight people- pure fact. They have to COME OUT, because they arent "normal". That is awful. America is supposed to be based on equal rights for all- as of right now, gay people don't have equal rights. It is not okay.

I doubt that many of the people who call themselves "christians" are really christians at all. It's not about beating up or condeming gay people, it's simply about loving and forgiveness and not judging people. It's pretty obvious that pastor never read the Bible because if he did he would know that Jesus said not to judge lest ye be judged and to not point out the speck in your neighbors eye until you get the log out of your own.

I find it funny how a lot of religious people don't want gay people to marry and say it will destroy the sanctity of marriage, when it's us STRAIGHT COUPLES that are the ones actually destroying marrige. Divorce rates are 50% in this country, so mabey they might want to deal with their own problems first before they go out preaching to gay people.

Straight couples are going to ruin the sanctity of marriage, not gay people.

ShadowMoses900

It's 2012. If you don't support gay marriage, youre either terribly brought up, misinformed, or a jack ass. Gay people live harder lives than straight people- pure fact. They have to COME OUT, because they arent "normal". That is awful. America is supposed to be based on equal rights for all- as of right now, gay people don't have equal rights. It is not okay.

Shmiity

lol this thread.

I agree that gender roles should be taught by parents [...] mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I agree that gender roles should be taught by parents [...] Zeviander

I disagree as there is something fundamentally different between males and females. mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I disagree as there is something fundamentally different between males and females. Zeviander

Even if I had a child who was gay I would think no less of him.mindstorm

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Fvcking bigots, crack me up every time!kingkong0124

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Even if I had a child who was gay I would think no less of him.Zeviander

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]Hows it morally wrong? It's a shame so many people seem to oppose love.

Hubadubalubahu

There was a time when most nations and communities were ethnically, culturally, and religiously homogenous. This allowed them to rely upon common religious principles and traditions when crafting public laws and public moral requirements. Those who objected could be either suppressed or ejected with little problem. This is the historical background and context of the religious moral values which people still try to use as a basis for public laws today; unfortunately for them, nations and communities are changing dramatically.

More and more, human communities are becoming ethnically, culturally, and religiously diverse. There is no longer a single set of religious principles and traditions which community leaders can unthinkingly rely upon for crafting public laws or standards.

In place of traditional moral values, we should instead rely upon godless, secular values which are themselves derived from human reason, human empathy, and human experience. Human communities exist for the benefit of human beings and the same is true for human values and human morality. We need secular values as a basis for public laws because only godless, secular values are independent of the many religious traditions in a community.

This doesn't mean that religious believers who act on the basis of private religious values have nothing to offer public discussions, but it does mean that they cannot insist that public morality be defined according to those private religious values. Whatever they believe personally, they must also articulate those moral principles in terms of public reason - to explain why those values are justified on the basis of human reason, experience, and empathy rather than acceptance of the divine origins of some set of revelations or scriptures.

I'm not attacking you, just trying to get across that not everyone is a Christian and not everyone has the same moral values. Im glad you said you have no problem with allowing gay marriage, (at least I think you said that), because it would be silly to think that a ban on gay marriage isn't a infringement on everyone else's moral values that don't align with your religious values.

[...] I do not elevate homosexual acts above any other sins. [...]mindstorm

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I agree that gender roles should be taught by parents [...] mindstorm

Outside of reproductive capabilites there isn't a difference.. These roles you speak of are manufactured.. Especially with the widely varying aspects of physical attributes of people.. sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Even if I had a child who was gay I would think no less of him.Zeviander

I hate to say it, but yeah you really can't spin it any other way, mindstorm.

You completely reject moral relativism to the point where I think you would indeed think less of him by trying to find "cures" or like wacko baloney.

I would very much argue that there are emotional and relational differences as well.mindstorm

I will note, however, one of the reasons I believe gender roles to be important is because of certain, as you put it, manufactured notions that are brought about because of religion. As such, I would not expect the non-religious to participate in such ideals.mindstorm

This not saying an unbeliever cannot be moral [...]mindstorm

[QUOTE="Hubadubalubahu"]

nocoolnamejim

Thanks, I appreciate it. I was expecting more of a tl;dr comment but this is a nice change of pace.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I would very much argue that there are emotional and relational differences as well.Zeviander

I will note, however, one of the reasons I believe gender roles to be important is because of certain, as you put it, manufactured notions that are brought about because of religion. As such, I would not expect the non-religious to participate in such ideals.mindstorm

This not saying an unbeliever cannot be moral [...]mindstorm

Well I don't think there's much of a difference between men and women in terms of gender roles, nor do I tend to point out those unless they're really over-the-top insane goofy.

I also equate heterosexuality to homosexuality since there still lies the possibility for consent and the basis can be of love on either side of the fence. Again, no real moral difference.

BUT, not all non-believers think this way. There are more influential forces in life than religion, mindstorm. Upbringing, family interaction, schooling, social constructs within a community, and so forth. As a man of social science, it depresses me to think there are people who point to a single influence and pin all development and basis for right and wrong on that one aspect.

Not to mention it's troubling to think that they will try to become influential social figures.

What if I was taught to be against gender roles by Western culture and I came to reject it on my own? mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]What if I was taught to be against gender roles by Western culture and I came to reject it on my own? Zeviander

Zeviander is going ballistic right now.

It's 2012, homosexuality/gay marriage should be legal everywhere, and thought of as normal, everywhere, by everyone. Being homosexual is not a choice, and thats something people need to understand. In a world where gay people don't have equal rights- and can be killed for being gay why would you CHOOSE to be gay.

This man is comedy gold i love it, I'll make sure i beat the gay out of my son.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I agree that gender roles should be taught by parents [...] Zeviander

Indeed. Your ability defines you, not your clothes, your beliefs, or who you schtup. And the latter two are no-one's business but your own.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I agree that gender roles should be taught by parents [...] Apathetic_Prick

Indeed. Your ability defines you, not your clothes, your beliefs, or who you schtup. And the latter two are no-one's business but your own.

Can we introduce "beat the stupid out of social conservatives"?

TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I disagree as there is something fundamentally different between males and females. mindstorm

ITT: Mindstorm is filling in for Crushmaster. Perhaps Blackregiment1 too, in the near future.

The glorious theocracy that is teh USA.

What ever happened to the land of the free?

gotta love religious bigots