Noted Arizona Sheriff raids Sizzler Restaurants for hiring illegals

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] [QUOTE="topsemag55"]

Vote out all of the Democrats in Congress, then watch the Federal Deficit drop by more than half, as ObamaCare will be repealed.

topsemag55

*gives Snipes_2 high-five*

Damn I like this guy.:lol:

High Five over the Internets.

Good work Sheriff.:)

Good work Sheriff.:)

QuistisTrepe_

I agree. He does his job, which is what the people who elected him want him to do.:)

High Five over the Internets.

Snipes_2

The Bald Eagle will fly again in November, America will rise.

I'm not sure it'll do anything long term but it's always good to see steps addressing a problem being taken.

I think Countries will complain no Matter what the United States does. As for Obama, I still doubt he'll Ever do anything to help the situation. Snipes_2

It's a human rights violation, didn't you hear?

I'm not sure it'll do anything long term but it's always good to see steps addressing a problem being taken.

euphzilla03

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I think Countries will complain no Matter what the United States does. As for Obama, I still doubt he'll Ever do anything to help the situation. QuistisTrepe_

It's a human rights violation, didn't you hear?

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I think Countries will complain no Matter what the United States does. As for Obama, I still doubt he'll Ever do anything to help the situation. LJS9502_basic

It's a human rights violation, didn't you hear?

From Fox, to Calderon, to all these pro-illegals idiots who ***** and moan everytime someone is rounded up and deported.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

I think Countries will complain no Matter what the United States does. As for Obama, I still doubt he'll Ever do anything to help the situation. LJS9502_basic

It's a human rights violation, didn't you hear?

Edit: nvm, Saw Quistis' post after mine.

[QUOTE="lyeti"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

I'm dismayed by the lack of compassion for illegal immigrants. I understand the need to deport them, but there's no need to be harsh or unkind when talking about it.

UbiquitousAeon

Your article only posts costs without any comparison to benefits. To say that the illegal immigrants economic costs are greater than their overall output in terms of GDP is false.

I do for security reasons, and actually maintaining some notion of a legal process of immigration think that immigration laws should be enforced and the borders be made more secure. At the same time, reform of some sort would be preferable to fix the major shortcomings of the current system.

[QUOTE="UbiquitousAeon"] Maybe this will give you insight on the reason fro apathy. It's a ****ing drain on the economy, of course we should be pissed and apathetic. coolbeans90

Your article only posts costs without any comparison to benefits. To say that the illegal immigrants economic costs are greater than their overall output in terms of GDP is false.

Illegal immigrants to the US cost the country at least $10 billion more than they contribute to the economy. The CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) advises that if amnesty is put into place, these costs to the American economy (and the American taxpayer) will triple. The average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this amounted to a $10.4 billion drain on the federal budget. Some of the greatest federal costs included: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

--CIS

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]I think Countries will complain no Matter what the United States does. As for Obama, I still doubt he'll Ever do anything to help the situation. Snipes_2

Vote out all of the Democrats in Congress, then watch the Federal Deficit drop by more than half, as ObamaCare will be repealed.

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

Vote out all of the Democrats in Congress, then watch the Federal Deficit drop by more than half, as ObamaCare will be repealed.

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

coolbeans90

Senator Fred Thompson would have been a better candidate.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="UbiquitousAeon"] Maybe this will give you insight on the reason fro apathy. It's a ****ing drain on the economy, of course we should be pissed and apathetic. LJS9502_basic

Your article only posts costs without any comparison to benefits. To say that the illegal immigrants economic costs are greater than their overall output in terms of GDP is false.

Illegal immigrants to the US cost the country at least $10 billion more than they contribute to the economy. The CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) advises that if amnesty is put into place, these costs to the American economy (and the American taxpayer) will triple. The average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this amounted to a $10.4 billion drain on the federal budget. Some of the greatest federal costs included: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

That has to do with relation from services payed for through taxes and benefits taken out via government. Not overall economic contribution. You've used those numbers before, and to say they account for overall economic activity is incorrect.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

topsemag55

Senator Fred Thompson would have been a better candidate.

He was by far my favorite amongst the Republican condidates in the '08 primary. Sadly, he didn't last too long.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Your article only posts costs without any comparison to benefits. To say that the illegal immigrants economic costs are greater than their overall output in terms of GDP is false.

coolbeans90

Illegal immigrants to the US cost the country at least $10 billion more than they contribute to the economy. The CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) advises that if amnesty is put into place, these costs to the American economy (and the American taxpayer) will triple. The average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this amounted to a $10.4 billion drain on the federal budget. Some of the greatest federal costs included: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

That has to do with relation from services payed for through taxes and benefits taken out via government. Not overall economic contribution. You've used those numbers before, and to say they account for overall economic activity is incorrect.

lol Republicans won't decrease the deficit, hell it might balloon with all the defense spending increases coupled with the tax-revenue decreases from all their goofy tax cuts. And no republican is politically stupid/brave enough to tackle entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid). fat_rob

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]lol Republicans won't decrease the deficit, hell it might balloon with all the defense spending increases coupled with the tax-revenue decreases from all their goofy tax cuts. And no republican is politically stupid/brave enough to tackle entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid). mattbbpl

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]lol Republicans won't decrease the deficit, hell it might balloon with all the defense spending increases coupled with the tax-revenue decreases from all their goofy tax cuts. And no republican is politically stupid/brave enough to tackle entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid). LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="fat_rob"]lol Republicans won't decrease the deficit, hell it might balloon with all the defense spending increases coupled with the tax-revenue decreases from all their goofy tax cuts. And no republican is politically stupid/brave enough to tackle entitlement spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid). LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] I agree with you on this. The Republican party isn't the answer.mattbbpl

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Actually taking both into consideration....

Illegal immigrants to the US cost the country at least $10 billion more than they contribute to the economy. The CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) advises that if amnesty is put into place, these costs to the American economy (and the American taxpayer) will triple. The average illegal immigrant family uses $2,700/year more in services than it pays in taxes. In 2002, this amounted to a $10.4 billion drain on the federal budget. Some of the greatest federal costs included: Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

LJS9502_basic

That has to do with relation from services payed for through taxes and benefits taken out via government. Not overall economic contribution. You've used those numbers before, and to say they account for overall economic activity is incorrect.

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Parties won't matter....if people would vote out incumbents. The politicians would get the message. Neither party is worthwhile IMO. But they need to be sent a message.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Parties won't matter....if people would vote out incumbents. The politicians would get the message. Neither party is worthwhile IMO. But they need to be sent a message.LJS9502_basic

I kinda wish there were more viable parties as well.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

That has to do with relation from services payed for through taxes and benefits taken out via government. Not overall economic contribution. You've used those numbers before, and to say they account for overall economic activity is incorrect.

coolbeans90

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

Vote out all of the Democrats in Congress, then watch the Federal Deficit drop by more than half, as ObamaCare will be repealed.

coolbeans90

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for either candidate so I left the office of president blank on my ballot.

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

LJS9502_basic

This would be the first time I've ever heard of anyone attempting to claim that the money circulates back here when it goes back to Mexico. The only ones in America who are benefiting are those saving money on the off the books labor.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] How is that not correct. You can't look at benefits only...if they even exist...which I don't believe because for every illegal with a job...there is a citizen without one. Second.....even if they pay some money in taxes...it's obvious they are not paying as much as it costs for them to live here. Third....they send the money they earn back home so it doesn't recirculate in the US economy. I have yet to read anything where allowing illegals into this country has ANY positive at all.mattbbpl

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

Not at all what I said. I'm saying that they contribute to the economy by and large due to this. Though it does tend to free up the labor market to enter more skilled sectors of labor, (furthr allows specialization of labor due to an increased, mroe versatile labor market...) it tends to bring down those in the native population who do not move on.

Although minimum wage does cause its own problems for those whom the policy is supposed to protect. While certainly helping those who work minimum wage jobs, it increases unemployment, specically amongst teenagers and minorities. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be.

Not at all what I said. I'm saying that they contribute to the economy by and large due to this. Though it does tend to free up the labor market to enter more skilled sectors of labor, (furthr allows specialization of labor due to an increased, mroe versatile labor market...) it tends to bring down those in the native population who do not move on.

Although minimum wage does cause its own problems for those whom the policy is supposed to protect. While certainly helping those who work minimum wage jobs, it increases unemployment, specically amongst teenagers and minorities. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

LJS9502_basic

I read the study. It was taxes in, taxes out.

Ok, then we have nothing to worry about, as the reduced monetery supply in the U.S. will adjust in value to make up for it. It's something that hlds an inherint value the same way products do. If there is a higher quantity of money in the system, value per unit will be lower, and vice versa.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I am not looking at benefits only. You however are limiting your field of view to a single aspect of the economy.You CANNOT by any reasonable means come to the conclusion that this accounts for overall economic contribution/costs.

If one takes into account that illegals tend to work at a lower wage than native born, production per cost of labor that the rest of the market benefits from likely far exceeds the $10 billion difference.

How much of the money gets sent back to Mexico? Is it in U.S. dollars? Then they'll eventually recirculate via trade thereby providing jobs/economic activity here. If it doesn't, the money supply over there that is not recovered is adjusted for by inflation and no real value of money is lost.

It's nice that you haven't heard anything positive regarding illegal immigration, but that doesn't necessitate that there isn't.

For the record, I do support enforcing the border and immigration laws, primariliy for security reasons. Those are however, seperate from economic consqeuences.

QuistisTrepe_

This would be the first time I've ever heard of anyone attempting to claim that the money circulates back here when it goes back to Mexico. The only ones in America who are benefiting are those saving money on the off the books labor.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The study DID account for all benefits/cost and came up with a negative figure of $10 billion. I don't know why you don't accept that. And no..the money isn't circulating back up here.

fat_rob

This would be the first time I've ever heard of anyone attempting to claim that the money circulates back here when it goes back to Mexico. The only ones in America who are benefiting are those saving money on the off the books labor.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"] I can vote in November. Definitely going straight across Republican :twisted:QuistisTrepe_

I hope you get good candidates to vote for. Voting for McCain made me sick to the stomach, and was ultimately choosing the better of two inadequete candidates. Terrible feeling for a first time voter.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for either candidate so I left the office of president blank on my ballot.

I came pretty close to doing the same, but I felt rather compelled to vote against Obama.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Not at all what I said. I'm saying that they contribute to the economy by and large due to this. Though it does tend to free up the labor market to enter more skilled sectors of labor, (furthr allows specialization of labor due to an increased, mroe versatile labor market...) it tends to bring down those in the native population who do not move on.

Although minimum wage does cause its own problems for those whom the policy is supposed to protect. While certainly helping those who work minimum wage jobs, it increases unemployment, specically amongst teenagers and minorities. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="fat_rob"][QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

This would be the first time I've ever heard of anyone attempting to claim that the money circulates back here when it goes back to Mexico. The only ones in America who are benefiting are those saving money on the off the books labor.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Not at all what I said. I'm saying that they contribute to the economy by and large due to this. Though it does tend to free up the labor market to enter more skilled sectors of labor, (furthr allows specialization of labor due to an increased, mroe versatile labor market...) it tends to bring down those in the native population who do not move on.

Although minimum wage does cause its own problems for those whom the policy is supposed to protect. While certainly helping those who work minimum wage jobs, it increases unemployment, specically amongst teenagers and minorities. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be.

fat_rob

Who then buy things with the money they save, which employs more people in some other industry because of increased demand. And those other people then buy things . . . yup, only a few benefit lolfat_rob

So the ends justify the means? Uh, no. This also doesn't account for how much the average family of illegals use up in public services that never gets put back into the system costing legal taxpayers like you and I.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

Not at all what I said. I'm saying that they contribute to the economy by and large due to this. Though it does tend to free up the labor market to enter more skilled sectors of labor, (furthr allows specialization of labor due to an increased, mroe versatile labor market...) it tends to bring down those in the native population who do not move on.

Although minimum wage does cause its own problems for those whom the policy is supposed to protect. While certainly helping those who work minimum wage jobs, it increases unemployment, specically amongst teenagers and minorities. It's not as black and white as people make it out to be.

LJS9502_basic

Pretty much what I said in my post. Those who won't or cannot move onto a more skilled area are harmed by immigration, or anything that reduces the cost of labor. (goes for technological advancements in industries that reduce the amount of required labor) This cause either reduced wages, increased unemployment, or both.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="fat_rob"] Who then buy things with the money they save, which employs more people in some other industry because of increased demand. And those other people then buy things . . . yup, only a few benefit lolfat_rob

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But they do that in Mexico......LJS9502_basic

...Read the study you posted. That is not what it concluded.

Pretty much what I said in my post. Those who won't or cannot move onto a more skilled area are harmed by immigration, or anything that reduces the cost of labor. (goes for technological advancements in industries that reduce the amount of required labor) This cause either reduced wages, increased unemployment, or both.

coolbeans90

[QUOTE="fat_rob"]

QuistisTrepe_

Except that this doesn't actually work out like that. There's where you argument falls apart.