Obama Declares support for same-sex marriage.

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"]

Is kingkong typically this bad? or is it just that I am fairly new and only come to ot time to time.

Ace6301

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Was born with a condition called Transpositition of the Great Vessels. By saying I'm making things up you're insulting my disability. Dick.

worlock77

I haven't insulted disabilities. I insulted you.

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"]

Is kingkong typically this bad? or is it just that I am fairly new and only come to ot time to time.

kingkong0124

That's not an excuse.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] Yeah, he was talking about being okay with slavery last week.jimkabrhel

That's not an excuse.

2008 hes against gay marraige

2012 hes in favor sounds like he will do anything to get re-elected

Okay, I'm done here, it seems like the flaming and insults against me have died down. I still stand with my beliefs. Good night guys.

2008 hes against gay marraige

2012 hes in favor sounds like he will do anything to get re-elected

resevl4rlz

2008 hes against gay marraige

2012 hes in favor sounds like he will do anything to get re-elected

resevl4rlz

A politician expressing differing viewpoints over the years? Why that has never happened before!

Okay, I'm done here, it seems like the flaming and insults against me have died down. I still stand with my beliefs. Good night guys.

kingkong0124

Sorry, embroiled in a Yankees game right now. Stick around and I'm sure we can continue.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] ..what the hell. Quote me where I said that.. If I did i must have been drunk. kingkong0124

That's not an excuse.

I am split on this issue, I believe all people should have the same rights but I just don't like them calling it Marriage, I currently am in the civil union boat but I want those civil unions to give all the same rights as marriage. However this leads to a few problems for me.

1. It can be argued that my position is "separte but equal" and I can see why they would say that. I should state that I do NOT hate gay people, like I said I want them to have all the rights as us hetoro couples do, but the seperate but equal thing doesn't work. I don't want gay people to be discriminated against, so if they were allowed to marrey that might stop it.

2. However that being said I firmly believe in 1 man and 1 woman as the definition. But this also doesn't matter much in the hind sight of things as 50% of all marriges end in divorce, so we straight couples shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone, we should deal with our own crap first.

If gay people are allowed to marrey I don't think it would be the end of the world, they are a very small portion of the population and it's not like they are hurting anyone. What bob and mike do behind doors is their business and not mine, as long as it doesn't affect me I'm fine.

I can kind of relate to gay people struggles in a way, I am from Jewish Heritage and my ancestors got treated like dirt.

So when I see gay people being persecuted I know that I can't let it go, my people got persecuted too, so I have to stand up for them. But like I said, I just don't like them using the word marriage. And no I'm not a homophobic bigot so don't call me one.

[QUOTE="Bane_09"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Slavery back then is very different from what slavery is considered in a modern context. And what's wrong with bullying? It teaches a valuable life lesson: man the f*ck up. If you're going to let people bring you down, the rest of your life is going to suck ***. kingkong0124

So its ok then that Dan Savage bullied those Christians? I thought you were saying that was bad? Double standards eh? Those Christians really need to man up

And how is slavery different now from back then?

So according to kingkong, slavery was not "conducted with regards to ethnicity" meaning that "slavery back then is very different from what slavery is considered in a modern context" so as long as it's slavery not done in regards to ethnicity like when the book with with no bs was revealed its ok

:lol:

Edit: god damn quotes

@shadow i think the government should get out of "marriage" in general and the question should be asked if they recognize a contract between men to share gains and liabilities for tax purposes. that IS their only interest in the whole situation so that should be the only debate. to me, what others do is a non-issue to me unless they make it an issue involving me. surrealnumber5

I don't necessarily disagree, but the fact is that marriage has been made the domian of the state and has been that way for a long ass time. So what the's solution? The only way to make it equal for all citizens is to extend the same right to all citizens, or to invalidate the marriages of hundreds of millions.

and as i posted on a gay friends face book "and what actions support his words"surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]@shadow i think the government should get out of "marriage" in general and the question should be asked if they recognize a contract between men to share gains and liabilities for tax purposes. that IS their only interest in the whole situation so that should be the only debate. to me, what others do is a non-issue to me unless they make it an issue involving me. worlock77

I don't necessarily disagree, but the fact is that marriage has been made the domian of the state and has been that way for a long ass time. So what the's solution? The only way to make it equal for all citizens is to extend the same right to all citizens, or to invalidate the marriages of hundreds of millions.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]and as i posted on a gay friends face book "and what actions support his words"Master_Live

Well my approval of the president went up slightly, and Romney still sucks.

@shadow i think the government should get out of "marriage" in general and the question should be asked if they recognize a contract between men to share gains and liabilities for tax purposes. that IS their only interest in the whole situation so that should be the only debate. to me, what others do is a non-issue to me unless they make it an issue involving me. surrealnumber5

An idea I had that would work (though it's not very popular) is just to drop the term marriage completely from Government. Thus ending the whole gay marriage issue entirely, it would just be call unions or whatever by the state, but not marriage for anyone, including us straight couples.

That way straight people could still say they are "married" in a general sense, but the government would just refer to it as them unions or whatever for legal purposes. Same goes for gay couples.

It would end the whole debate, the only thing that we would have to do is make sure that all couples have the same rights, gay or straight. The definition of marriage wouldn't change and everyone would be equal under the law.

As for Obama this was a very ballsy move, I admire his conviction for doing this, it takes guts to express an opinion that isn't very popular, however I think this may have just been a quick move for political reasons and it may come back and bite him in the ass later, I doubt he is going to get much support now.

[QUOTE="Master_Live"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]and as i posted on a gay friends face book "and what actions support his words"surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

lol people still argue with kingkong? i thought it was pretty obvious dude is an elaborate troll character

kingkong0124

So you've done and appeal to tradition followed by an appeal to ridicule/false dichotomy when someone points it out. I think it would be better for you to admit to trolling because the other possibly would be that you're a dumbass. But I guess the thread where you openly flaunted your denial of a certain fundamental scientific concept already gave you away.

Regardless of how unimportant I think this issue is, I still think it's funny how many Americans think the concept of marriage is exclusive to religions like Christianity and Islam. News flash, people, it isn't. Look up the defenition of marriage, and I'm sure you'll find more than one that may not fit in line with your opinion. And if your entire reasoning for outlawing same sex unions/marriage is the Bible or what have you, then your reasoning is deeply flawed and rooted in ignorance.

I still think Obama sucks and hope to see him kicked out of office in 2012, though. I'm tired of George Bush.

An idea I had that would work (though it's not very popular) is just to drop the term marriage completely from Government. Thus ending the whole gay marriage issue entirely, it would just be call unions or whatever by the state, but not marriage for anyone, including us straight couples.

That way straight people could still say they are "married" in a general sense, but the government would just refer to it as them unions or whatever for legal purposes. Same goes for gay couples.

It would end the whole debate, the only thing that we would have to do is make sure that all couples have the same rights, gay or straight. The definition of marriage wouldn't change and everyone would be equal under the law.ShadowMoses900

Not that I disagree, but there's millions of people who would throw an absolute fit.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]@shadow i think the government should get out of "marriage" in general and the question should be asked if they recognize a contract between men to share gains and liabilities for tax purposes. that IS their only interest in the whole situation so that should be the only debate. to me, what others do is a non-issue to me unless they make it an issue involving me. ShadowMoses900

An idea I had that would work (though it's not very popular) is just to drop the term marriage completely from Government. Thus ending the whole gay marriage issue entirely, it would just be call unions or whatever by the state, but not marriage for anyone, including us straight couples.

That way straight people could still say they are "married" in a general sense, but the government would just refer to it as them unions or whatever for legal purposes. Same goes for gay couples.

It would end the whole debate, the only thing that we would have to do is make sure that all couples have the same rights, gay or straight. The definition of marriage wouldn't change and everyone would be equal under the law.

As for Obama this was a very ballsy move, I admire his conviction for doing this, it takes guts to express an opinion that isn't very popular, however I think this may have just been a quick move for political reasons and it may come back and bite him in the ass later, I doubt he is going to get much support now.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] neither has anything to do with a contract between two men to share their work and get a shared tax deduction. surrealnumber5

Edit: Here's a link that does a much better job than I did: Link

The second paragraph is the pertinent portion.

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] Doesn't section 3 of DOMA (the one no longer being defended by the DOJ) deal with precisely that?mattbbpl

Let's just give gay couples the same benefits that marriage couples get then. Then there would be no gay marriage debate at all, everyone would get the same rights and benefits without changing the term. Straights would keep their marriges and gays would keep their unions with all the benefits of marriage. Everyone wins.

Of course one could argue this being a case of seperate but equal....but I don't think it's as bad as that.

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

lostfan132

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

lostfan132

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

lostfan132

Nah, it's not going to be much of a factor in November. The election's going to ride on the economy, not social issues.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] expound? my doma knowledge is limited ShadowMoses900

Let's just give gay couples the same benefits that marriage couples get then. Then there would be no gay marriage debate at all, everyone would get the same rights and benefits without changing the term. Straights would keep their marriges and gays would keep their unions with all the benefits of marriage. Everyone wins.

Of course one could argue this being a case of seperate but equal....but I don't think it's as bad as that.

I'm in that camp. However, I agree with you that "marriage" from a government POV and "marriage" from a religious POV aren't the same thing - nor should they be. While not a practical solution, it would solve a lot of problems to rename marriage from a government POV to some other term. I would personally have no problem with that, although I'm sure I'm in the minority :P

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

lostfan132

He did it for political reasons mostly I'm sure, when he was running for office and even after he got it he was very opposed to same sex marriage. It's only now that be supports it because election time is just around the corner and he needs an issue to distract people from his policies. All of this is riding on the heels of the NC bill that got passed.

Either way I don't expect this to go anywhere, there might be a few states that might allow this but there's no way the majoirty of them would be on board with this. This is more of a wedge issue at best, I personally care more about jobs and making sure we don't start more wars then what bob and mike like to do behind closed doors.They leave me alone and I leave them alone, we live and let live.

Pretty good philosophy if you ask me.

[QUOTE="lostfan132"]

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

Guybrush_3

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="lostfan132"]

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

surrealnumber5

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

Guybrush_3

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

Guybrush_3

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Your generalisations and stereotypes is no different from a KKK member or Rush Limbaugh stereotypying minorities. And not everyone who doesn't suppot same sex marriges is a bigot or bible thumper, in fact a lot of them don't hate gay people at all, they just disagree with the term marriage. It doesn't make them bad or anything, they just see things differently.

I agree that gay people should have the same rights, but it doesn't make those that oppose gay marriage bigoted red necks. I know a person who is against it and he is one of the top students at my college and is well on his way to becoming a DR. I bet he would like to hear your generalisations. Stereotypes just hold us back, your being just as closed minded as the people your bashing.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="lostfan132"]

President just turned this into the gay marriage election", a good move imo. Then again i will never underestimate the ignorance of rednecks. Hopefully good wins out here.

surrealnumber5

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

Name a single legitimate (i.e. that's not some stupid fallacy), non religious argument against gay marriage.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

Well he realized that the stupid rednecks and dumbass bible thumpers against gay marriage probably weren't voting for him anyway so he might as well stregnthen his positions elsewhere.

Heisenderp

Name a single legitimate (i.e. that's not some stupid fallacy), non religious argument against gay marriage.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] :( i cringe every time i see this kind of generalizing/marginalizing by any one. surrealnumber5

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Good intentions don't their make an action correct. It just makes them ass backward morons who deserve no respect.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] :( i cringe every time i see this kind of generalizing/marginalizing by any one. ShadowMoses900

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Your generalisations and stereotypes is no different from a KKK member or Rush Limbaugh stereotypying minorities. And not everyone who doesn't suppot same sex marriges is a bigot or bible thumper, in fact a lot of them don't hate gay people at all, they just disagree with the term marriage. It doesn't make them bad or anything, they just see things differently.

I agree that gay people should have the same rights, but it doesn't make those that oppose gay marriage bigoted red necks. I know a person who is against it and he is one of the top students at my college and is well on his way to becoming a DR. I bet he would like to hear your generalisations. Stereotypes just hold us back, your being just as closed minded as the people your bashing.

Areas with more rednecks "the south" follow a similar pattern

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] expound? my doma knowledge is limited ShadowMoses900

Let's just give gay couples the same benefits that marriage couples get then. Then there would be no gay marriage debate at all, everyone would get the same rights and benefits without changing the term. Straights would keep their marriges and gays would keep their unions with all the benefits of marriage. Everyone wins.

Of course one could argue this being a case of seperate but equal....but I don't think it's as bad as that.

Denmark has exactly that, and it's going to change to same sex marriage this coming june, UK has exactly that, and is planning to legalize same sex marriage before next general election, civil union is more of less a stepping stone toward true marriage equality, but it's nothing more than just a stage.

Until true equality has been reached, people will not and should not be satisfied, same sex marriage has been legal here in Canada since 2005, the country is functioning just fine. If people are going to agree with civil union granting all the rights to gay couples, I wonder what's stopping them from extending this concept of marriage to gay couples, there's no logical explanation other than them thinking same sex relationships are worth less than heterosexual relations.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"] As is mine. I was hoping to get a better bead on where you were coming from, but from what I know of section 3 is basically declares that same-sex marriages are not recognized for federal purposes (including taxes, amongst other things). Ncsoftlover

Let's just give gay couples the same benefits that marriage couples get then. Then there would be no gay marriage debate at all, everyone would get the same rights and benefits without changing the term. Straights would keep their marriges and gays would keep their unions with all the benefits of marriage. Everyone wins.

Of course one could argue this being a case of seperate but equal....but I don't think it's as bad as that.

Denmark has exactly that, and it's going to change to same sex marriage this coming june, UK has exactly that, and is planning to legalize same sex marriage before next general election, civil union is more of less a stepping stone toward true marriage equality, but it's nothing more than just a stage.

Until true equality has been reached, people will not and should not be satisfied, same sex marriage has been legal here in Canada since 2005, the country is functioning just fine. If people are going to agree with civil union granting all the rights to gay couples, I wonder what's stopping them from extending this concept of marriage to gay couples, there's no logical explanation other than them thinking same sex relationships are worth less than heterosexual relations.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Guybrush_3

Good intentions don't their make an action correct. It just makes them ass backward morons who deserve no respect.

i dont call people who support fixed housing prices (rent control) or people who support the minimum wadge evil, they simply dont know the historical argument, so i try to argue them to my position. when you discount someone you remove the possibility for reasoning with them.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Person0

Your generalisations and stereotypes is no different from a KKK member or Rush Limbaugh stereotypying minorities. And not everyone who doesn't suppot same sex marriges is a bigot or bible thumper, in fact a lot of them don't hate gay people at all, they just disagree with the term marriage. It doesn't make them bad or anything, they just see things differently.

I agree that gay people should have the same rights, but it doesn't make those that oppose gay marriage bigoted red necks. I know a person who is against it and he is one of the top students at my college and is well on his way to becoming a DR. I bet he would like to hear your generalisations. Stereotypes just hold us back, your being just as closed minded as the people your bashing.

Areas with more rednecks "the south" follow a similar pattern

yes, sometimes stereotypes exists for a reason, sometimes generalization can be helpful, in this case, there's not one single logical argument against same sex marriage. It's not unreasonable to conclude that people who are against gay marriage to be bigoted and are on the opposing side of human progression. Obviously people should be judged on an individual basis, no one is saying everyone from the southern states share the same bigoted views.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] :( i cringe every time i see this kind of generalizing/marginalizing by any one. ShadowMoses900

I won't appologize for having no respect for people that don't want others to have equal rights because of religious beliefs. They can all eat the worlds biggest bag of dicks.

Your generalisations and stereotypes is no different from a KKK member or Rush Limbaugh stereotypying minorities. And not everyone who doesn't suppot same sex marriges is a bigot or bible thumper, in fact a lot of them don't hate gay people at all, they just disagree with the term marriage. It doesn't make them bad or anything, they just see things differently.

I agree that gay people should have the same rights, but it doesn't make those that oppose gay marriage bigoted red necks. I know a person who is against it and he is one of the top students at my college and is well on his way to becoming a DR. I bet he would like to hear your generalisations. Stereotypes just hold us back, your being just as closed minded as the people your bashing.

Considering I've called out an actual M.D. on this issue before to his face I don't think I would have a problem calling out the guy you know.