Question about evolution and atheism BIG READ

25 pages of atheists dodging the questions posed. lol

kryptonianpride

I'm sorry, most of us aren't capable of emulating the mindset you need for answering stupid questions.

[QUOTE="Barbariser"]

[QUOTE="clayron"]Plus all of the side discussions are plenty good.clayron

I'm reading Snipes_2's argument on page 5 right now and I have to disagree with you on that. He's excellent at proving that he can't debate properly.

They can't explain how the Universe was Formed and they can't prove that there is no God. To compensate for this, scientists use "Coincidence".

Snipes_2

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="clayron"] I have gone through the first few pages and I am loving the way the discussions is progressing. As far as I have read no one is taking strides to be offensive and people are actually discussing the merits of the TC argument. Plus all of the side discussions are plenty good. Also, I now love Foxhound_Fox. I always got the impression he/she hated religion with a passion.clayron

Eh...as the thread goes on those personal attacks start popping up.

I was kind of disappointed with the way in which deadpool quickly seemed to get very selective about the arguments to which he responded, tossing out the rest as "nonsense to (him)"... it seemed at the start like it could have been a good discussion, but that never materialized. :(

[QUOTE="Darth-Caedus"][QUOTE="Snipes_2"] The Proof is in the Bible, which for some reason you don't accept. Snipes_2

Nice.

[QUOTE="scorch-62"]I've just gotta ask: what is this? Maybe I misread it, but it seems to me like you're equating science to magic.deadpool86x

I am doing just that in a sense. Science says that magically the universe always existed or came into existence suddenly and for no reason. Magically, the first appearance of life was immune to everything. Literally everything. It somehow dipped into a pool of knowledge that didnt exist and taught itself how to copy itself. This is identically the same as the ipod forming a playlist with no music inside of it. It magically formed the complex laws and musical notes the instant it came into existence, so that it could know how to replicate itself. The downside to that is that music and the formation of a playlist on an empty ipod is infinitely less complex than your pick of any coding in DNA that this life form was born with.

Before science existed, everything already existed? Where was the need to evolve? The universe and singularity DE-evolved in a sense and took steps backward. Evolution is a joke in the sense that books say it exists. If it really exists, it was set forth by GOD. The odds of an entire species not only adapting to something all at the same time, finding a mate who also has adapted suddenly to the very same condition and then somehow as if by sheer luck or magic being able to produce offspring with that ability, and then that kid having the ability to find yet another mate with the same adaptations and AGAIN producing offspring without ANY loss of that evolved trait is 0%.

Mutations are more than usually negative. You dont have the same traits as your great 100x grandpa did. The line gets deluded over time and that trait and information in the DNA will be lost. That is not debatable, thats science fact. If the entire species is not infected with the same evolved trait at the very same time, finding another mate capable of producing offspring of a mutated creature is immensely low. So low in fact, that the idea that it happens on a universal scale in a species is just SILLY and nonsense.

wow 51 pages...

I am so not going to read this.

got bored after page 2...

To the original poster.

Evolution doesn't even have its foot in the door when it comes to the existence of a Divine/Supernatural/Transcendent Being.

Regardless if evolution is true or false. Many other questions are still left unanswered.

There are countless arguments and responses.

A gaming forum is the last place to look for answers buddy. Do your own research and do not be among those whowill and havejump(ed) on the "latest & greatest" bandwagons. If the likes of Richard Dawkin's appeal to a certain selected few -understand why. Seek to understand yourselfandthis world around you.

Knowledge with the addition of sincerity is power. No doubts and no foolishness will overcome you. Do not expect answers to be handed to you.

Although I will leave you with this.

Out of nothing - nothing comes. If you are in a discussion with an individual who believes in such a "event".End it - give him/her your Peaceand be on your way.

Become an agnostic! Like me!

For the record: your lack of understanding of a theory isn't proof against a theory. Brainkiller05

If it can't be watered down and explained to a three year old then it's not valid science!

And if it is watered down, then I will point out problems that exist solely because it was simplified to explain the theory to people who don't understand it!

@TC 1. Mutations happen first then they may help the organism survive. A mutation does not appear because it is required but randomly and then the majority of the species acquires it through breeding if it is required (the longer your lifetime the more sex you can have in your lifetime)

2. Again mutations happen first then the may help survival. There is no evidence to say that our current evolutionary starting point was the first one it was just the first one that worked, with enough attempts you're eventually going to result in something that works.Also you're thinking in human terms, it is impossible to drown a bacteria or crush one with water pressure as they are naturally saturated in water.

3. Human logic is based around the world so if something is logical that just means that it fits the world you grew up in, if the universe was different your logic would be different. Complex structures will always form if you have enough substance with a few basic rules (laws of physics), look at mathematic patterns and you'll see what i mean.

TRUE ten commandmentsCommunist_Soul

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] I AM bothering in that i'm refusing to answer a question that cannot possibly be answered (at least right now...). That's bothering. That's examining the question and taking a stance which makes most sense to me. And i find the 'how can something come from nothing?' argument really bizarre. You believe that God made the universe? That made me Lol. Quite fun reading all this. Well then who made God? How did God come from nothing? Exact same problem. urdead18

That made me lol. Quite fun reading all of this.

Eh... I have to admit I really don't care that much any more. If a god exists then I have no obligation to worship it. Furthermore, if he truly did create us with some sort of higher purpose then he must have forgotten about it; it seems to me like we are a painter's artistic masterpiece of yesterday. You want evidence? Plenty of it, actually. Look at how many people get killed everyday in godless ways, and let's not forget one of the most "godless" crusades in history: the Holocaust.

How can God let all of this happen exactly? The killing of several million of his own devoted followers didn't strike him as unnecessary? Then he really doesn't care, and it makes no sense that he should.

[QUOTE="kryptonianpride"]

25 pages of atheists dodging the questions posed. lol

Barbariser

I'm sorry, most of us aren't capable of emulating the mindset you need for answering stupid questions.

Asking if god and evolution truly exist are stupid questions? Outside of what could the cure for diseases be, this seems like the most important question you can possible ask. In my view its just incredibly hard for religious people to understand how, by chance, so many complex things arose without a planner. It's tough for me to believe that all of it came from absolutely nothingness. I've yet to hear a valid excuse for non belief. I'm certainly open to hearing a great view on it, but I've not read anything that even remotely swayed my views in 25 pages of text. What I hear a lot of is that it just happens, its natural and evolution. what I fail to understand is how the ability to adapt specifically to something else on the fly is backed by the lack of a control factor.

@Exmortus

In my eyes God created us because we need to experience pain and suffering. It makes perfect sense that if there is a heaven and afterlife, there wont be suffering and pain and your existence would be meaningless there, you've never experienced what makes existence so special. Youd be an ignorant entity. Life makes sense, and it really looks like earth was placed in a part of the galaxy to sheer perfection for not only life to exist, but for exploring and viewing everything around us to an immensely clear degree.

I've yet to hear a valid excuse for non belief.

kryptonianpride

Asking if god and evolution truly exist are stupid questions? kryptonianpride

No, but inventing beliefs out of nowhere and attributing them to a group which mostly doesn't possess such beliefs and then asking them to support the beliefs you just gave them would qualify as "asking a stupid question". I don't think you'd appreciate it very much if I said that all Christians believe that God made the world on a frying pan, so naturally I don't appreciate it when people like the TC are intellectually dishonest enough to say that all Atheists believe that the universe came out of nothing.

I've yet to hear a valid excuse for non belief.kryptonianpride

In any case where there's no conclusive evidence for and against a claim (such as this one), logic dictates that you shouldn't simply assume that the claim is true. Therefore, if you follow the logical method, you'd reject the claim until sufficiently compelling evidence is provided. The fact that the claim hasn't been supported by any hard evidence is a valid enough "excuse" not to consider it as fact. What your statement implies is that I need a valid excuse not to believe that my keyboard has an invisible corporeal elf sleeping on it.

Kryptonianpride: They did not arrise by chance. The arose due to a cause and effecvt relationshiop that has existed since the beginning of time. Things did not arise from nothingness. They arose from a hyper dense particle that began expanding. Where did this hyper dense particle originiate? No one knows. You can attribute it to God all you want but you are statign something without any proof whatsoever. The control factor you are talking about is the environment. Do you agree that creatures need to adapt in order to survive in certain environment? Lets take the example of long haired bears to short haired bears. Say in a population there exist long haired, short haired and split end haired bears. Long hair and split end hair allow the bears to retain heat more. In a warm environment this may not be good. However say a cataclysmic eruption or asteroid impact pushes many aerosols into the lower startosphere/upper troposphere where winds pick the material up and take it around the planet. The result would be globally cooler temperatures. Long haired and split end bears would be able to retain needed heat better. The bears with short hair may die and the ratio with bears with split ends and long haired bears would increase. Note that no actual evolution has taken place, just the adaption of a population to environmental impacts.

But how do we know that mutations can occur? We have the ability to study the human genome, which was done in the human genome project, and the genome of other animals. Compartive studies of the Chimp Genome Project show that there are currently 15 individual genetic markers being shifted away from our primate ancestors. Including a gene known as LCT, a gene that allows digestion ofmilk enzymes past childhood. I'm sure you know that many in certain areas of the world are Lactose intolerant. This is because the LCT gene they have in their genome is the primate gene, primates do not have the ability to digest milk enzyme past childhood. Comparing the genome to genomes of the past allows one to see where exactly the genome originated by mapping the occurences of the mutation. Other examples of mutations from our ancestors to humans consist of FOXP2, indentified with speach, ASPM and HAR1F, both identified with brain development, AMY1, associated with digesting starch, and so on.

I really agree, especially with your third paragraph and I've mentioned it in many religious threads. Believing existence just happened is the same as believing there is a god. None has any more evidence than the other but atheist don't seem to think so. The way I see it science will only get so far in this question of existence, if we trace the origin of every chemical/substance that made us we will eventually reach a point where something just appeared out of nothing like magic...

Espada12

A couple things...

Yes if you throw an entire species into a situation in which they will die almost instantly then they will not evolve. That is not the case that evolution makes and also is the reason so many species have faced extinction (see: Dinosaurs)

While I do know a few atheists, most people who claim to be atheists are agnostic. They call themselves atheist because they don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God or the God of islam. I personally think that there was probably a creator or a creating force, but whether or not this individual is a "god" in the sense that most of us understand it, I highly doubt.

Ehhh...I could explain my view, but George Carlin does it way better than me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o