U.S. bugged EU offices.

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

[QUOTE="Toxic-Seahorse"] No, we're just the only ones that got exposed.LJS9502_basic

Probably because most other nations do not spy on their allies in what appears to be very high risk ways. Intelligence gathering and spying are at different places on the spectrum. It was dumb... the the intent of such actions is more than questionable from an EU standpoint.

what's funny is they expected differently, and what's even more funny is they'd probably do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it, or hell maybe they dolamprey263

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Probably because most other nations do not spy on their allies in what appears to be very high risk ways. Intelligence gathering and spying are at different places on the spectrum. It was dumb... the the intent of such actions is more than questionable from an EU standpoint.

Treflis

[QUOTE="Treflis"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]In the intell field it's established fact. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]He stopped being a whistleblower when he blabbed to the foreign press. He became a flat-out traitor when he leaked US intelligence-gathering techniques to a foreign power. Stop defending him.

LJS9502_basic

Illegal intelligence-gathering techniques.  

So because other countries are doing it, it's fine?  Keep your own house in order.  

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

 

Illegal intelligence-gathering techniques.  

hartsickdiscipl

So because other countries are doing it, it's fine?  Keep your own house in order.  

[QUOTE="Treflis"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]In the intell field it's established fact. LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="ThaneKrios28"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Speak for yourself. I was.LJS9502_basic

Am 95% sure lj is telling the truth for what it's worthdave123321

what's funny is they expected differently, and what's even more funny is they'd probably do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it, or hell maybe they dolamprey263

[QUOTE="ThaneKrios28"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Speak for yourself. I was.ad1x2

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Am 95% sure lj is telling the truth for what it's worthThaneKrios28

Am 95% sure lj is telling the truth for what it's worthdave123321

[QUOTE="ThaneKrios28"][QUOTE="dave123321"]Am 95% sure lj is telling the truth for what it's worthdave123321

[QUOTE="lamprey263"]what's funny is they expected differently, and what's even more funny is they'd probably do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it, or hell maybe they doAce6301

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Am 95% sure lj is telling the truth for what it's worthLJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

In answer to you all:

Riots: So? A few people die of doing something stupid. I weighed against the lives of intelligence assets and their families, and I say sacrifice the rioters.

International law: what "international law?" Show me the governing body that supercedes any nation's sovereignty. Then explain why US bugging of foreign governments is somehow more heinous than what some of these dictators have done to their people, which this fictional body has done nothing about.

Treasomn is defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. What Snowden has done has given our enemies in al Qaeda and Afghanistan our intelligence-gathering methods and damaged diplomatic relations with other nations. It's not "whistle blowing" anymore. Kill him before he does any more damage.

 

BranKetra

---

Spying on the United Nations: 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spying_on_the_United_Nations

As far as the whole "treaty" deal... about 30 years ago, the US caught a spy working in the US Navy. Care to guess who he was spying for?

Israel.

Know what happened in the long term? After all, we had a long standing alliance with them... surely we no longer trust--- oh wait, we still have an alliance with them. Imagine that.

Besides... if the EU or anyone else raised much more of a fuss, we'd be obligated to root out every spy in Washington from DGSE, GSG-9, SVR, SAVAK, Mossad... it would be a bloodbath. It's in everyone's best interests if they all just settled down quickly so it can go back to business as usual.

We won't be executing him... we'll be assassinating him. Preferably, before he hands over more data on what we do and how we do it to the entire f***ing world.

Finally... who cares what the UN has to say about spying? They're toothless. Just as Saddam Hussein: 11 UN letter of sanction. "Stop what you're doing, or we'll say 'stop' again!"

It's time to stop trying to arrest this traitor, and seriously consider terminating him before he hands over something that gets people killed.

OrkHammer007

In answer to you all:

Riots: So? A few people die of doing something stupid. I weighed against the lives of intelligence assets and their families, and I say sacrifice the rioters.

International law: what "international law?" Show me the governing body that supercedes any nation's sovereignty. Then explain why US bugging of foreign governments is somehow more heinous than what some of these dictators have done to their people, which this fictional body has done nothing about.

Treasomn is defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. What Snowden has done has given our enemies in al Qaeda and Afghanistan our intelligence-gathering methods and damaged diplomatic relations with other nations. It's not "whistle blowing" anymore. Kill him before he does any more damage.

OrkHammer007

this

As I stated in an earlier thread, this is how the spy game works. Everyone does it, everyone knows everyone else does it, everyone pretends they don't do it, and everyone pretends they're outraged when they learn someone else did it to them to drum up public support from their constituents.

 

Meanwhile, countries trade captured spies back and forth behind the curtains.mattbbpl

Yup.

I'm gonna point out the blatantly obvious. The only reason why the Snowden leaks have created such a fuss is because the US likes to promote itself as the beacon of civil liberty, democracy, justice and blah, blah blah... when in reality it's not. If you stop looking at the US through the distorted lens created by the mass media, leaks like this come as no surprise. So, the US spies on its citizens and foreign allies, what a shocking revelation. Everyone spies on everyone, it's all a game of interest, the EU is just mad that the Americans were better at it.

I'm gonna point out the blatantly obvious. The only reason why the Snowden leaks have created such a fuss is because the US likes to promote itself as the beacon of civil liberty, democracy, justice and blah, blah blah... when in reality it's not. If you stop looking at the US through the distorted lens created by the mass media, leaks like this come as no surprise. So, the US spies on its citizens and foreign allies, what a shocking revelation. Everyone spies on everyone, it's all a game of interest, the EU is just mad that the Americans were better at it.

Stavrogin_

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

In answer to you all:

Riots: So? A few people die of doing something stupid. I weighed against the lives of intelligence assets and their families, and I say sacrifice the rioters.

International law: what "international law?" Show me the governing body that supercedes any nation's sovereignty. Then explain why US bugging of foreign governments is somehow more heinous than what some of these dictators have done to their people, which this fictional body has done nothing about.

Treasomn is defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy. What Snowden has done has given our enemies in al Qaeda and Afghanistan our intelligence-gathering methods and damaged diplomatic relations with other nations. It's not "whistle blowing" anymore. Kill him before he does any more damage.

 

OrkHammer007

---

Spying on the United Nations: 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spying_on_the_United_Nations

As far as the whole "treaty" deal... about 30 years ago, the US caught a spy working in the US Navy. Care to guess who he was spying for?

Israel.

Know what happened in the long term? After all, we had a long standing alliance with them... surely we no longer trust--- oh wait, we still have an alliance with them. Imagine that.

Besides... if the EU or anyone else raised much more of a fuss, we'd be obligated to root out every spy in Washington from DGSE, GSG-9, SVR, SAVAK, Mossad... it would be a bloodbath. It's in everyone's best interests if they all just settled down quickly so it can go back to business as usual.

We won't be executing him... we'll be assassinating him. Preferably, before he hands over more data on what we do and how we do it to the entire f***ing world.

Finally... who cares what the UN has to say about spying? They're toothless. Just as Saddam Hussein: 11 UN letter of sanction. "Stop what you're doing, or we'll say 'stop' again!"

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

It's time to stop trying to arrest this traitor, and seriously consider terminating him before he hands over something that gets people killed.

frannkzappa

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="lamprey263"]what's funny is they expected differently, and what's even more funny is they'd probably do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it, or hell maybe they doLJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] They're doing a pretty good job of publicly shaming the US right now and they're bringing in the US Ambassador for an "explanation". You're right though it is all politics. Unfortunately politics are not separated from the real world and as such a political repercussion is still a repercussion. Biggest kick in the nuts Germany could do right now is give Snowden safe habour. They should absolutely do this.Ace6301

i'll side with the one that's not taking hostages.

All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.LJS9502_basic

i'll side with the one that's not taking hostages.

frannkzappa

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.Ace6301

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.Ace6301

i'll side with the one that's not taking hostages.

frannkzappa

it also makes what snowden (and continues to do) did even worse.

it also makes what snowden (and continues to do) did even worse.

frannkzappa

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.Ace6301

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.LJS9502_basic

It's a big enough deal that we jail and sometimes execute folks for doing it. Hell, we're trying to get Snowden right now for doing "what everybody does". It's weird to me how some are arguing that the US isn't so bad for spying while they're trying to crucify someone for... spying.

There are spies who were caught with much less who are still in prison after a quarter or more of a decade. I wonder if Israel is noting the irony of having the US whine about decorum while bugging EU offices, while they've continually refused to release Jonathan Pollard for doing arguably similar things.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]All countries "spy" if you want to use that word...well those with the capability. Like those in the EU.m0zart

It's a big enough deal that we jail and sometimes execute folks for doing it. Hell, we're trying to get Snowden right now for doing "what everybody does". It's weird to me how some are arguing that the US isn't so bad for spying while they're trying to crucify someone for... spying.

There are spies who were caught with much less who are still in prison after a quarter or more of a decade. I wonder if Israel is noting the irony of having the US whine about decorum while bugging EU offices, while they've continually refused to release Jonathan Pollard for doing arguably similar things.

If Snowden was a double agent...then they do get arrested. In some countries...killed. Hi Russia.LJS9502_basic

Only if they spied on Russia.

We on the other hand have killed spies, though we called it "treason" rather than "spying".

Anyway there's little reason to really believe that Snowden was a double agent. In fact, he did what a spy, especially a double agent, would never do -- revealed himself publically. Seems he did it so he could gain asylum in case he was traced after the fact, but most spies don't admit to anything, even when they are facing the gallows.