War between North America and Europe

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i guess we just lost the war in egypt too as that government was just as allied with us as the vietnamese government....

surrealnumber5

durring the police action the US lost about 60k but the vietnamese lost 1,200k and that is low balling it for combat only units.

This was a complete cut and run by the USA. You even had South Vietnam's leader, General Thieu, the key US ally, utter these words:

"At the time of the peace agreement the United States agreed to replace equipment on a one-by-one basis. But the United States did not keep its word. Is an American's word reliable these days? The United States did not keep its promise to help us fight for freedom and it was in the same fight that the United States lost 50,000 of its young men."

So when the USA left, the South was utterly defenceless against the North. The USA lost the Vietnam conflict, plain and simple. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is trying to mitigate the fact that America was exhausted and expelled from Indo-China by pretending they were somehow done, despite achieving none of their long term goals.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] You get that supporting Mubarak in Egypt wasn't a war right? That funding him for decades and giving him implicit support is not akin to deploying combat troops and losing almost 60,000 US lives?

Danm_999

durring the police action the US lost about 60k but the vietnamese lost 1,200k and that is low balling it for combat only units.

This was a complete cut and run by the USA. You even had South Vietnam's leader, General Thieu, the key US ally, utter these words:

"At the time of the peace agreement the United States agreed to replace equipment on a one-by-one basis. But the United States did not keep its word. Is an American's word reliable these days? The United States did not keep its promise to help us fight for freedom and it was in the same fight that the United States lost 50,000 of its young men."

So when the USA left, the South was utterly defenceless against the North. The USA lost the Vietnam conflict, plain and simple. Anyone trying to argue otherwise is trying to mitigate the fact that America was exhausted and expelled from Indo-China by pretending they were somehow done, despite achieving none of their long term goals.

no clew what that quote was about or from who,surrealnumber5

It was from General Thieu, President of South Vietnam from 1965 to 1975 (Hint; the time of the Vietnam War), so the fact you don't know who he was or what it was about sort of casts a nasty light on your understanding of the conflict.

but the treaty was signed on our terms as the north was unwilling to budge till linebacker 2, the government and military were not exhausted and i have no clew where you get that from,surrealnumber5

Probably because the Paris Peace Accords you're talking about occured two months after the Tet Offensives. You know, those kind of decisive counter-attacks by the Viet Cong that destroyed the morale of the American public in the Vietnamese conflict.

Probably the fact the Paris Peace Accords the only reason the us wanted out was because the people never wanted to be there in the first place. surrealnumber5

Yep. Totally coincidental that they began two months after the worst setback to the US aid to South Vietnam in history, going so far as to see attacks on the US embassy in Saigon.

i do not know where you "learned" your history,surrealnumber5

University of Sydney, Australia.

but where ever it was they should have told you day one that the war in vietnam was between the north and south, and that the united states never declared war and went there as a police action,surrealnumber5

But that the US attempted to bolster the ailing south, going so far as to deploy hundreds of thousands of combat troops to Vietnam, and even under Nixon, to skirt into Cambodia to try and root out Viet Cong.

what we would call peace keeping mission. surrealnumber5

My Lai was peacekeeping?

our mission was to stop the war and we did,surrealnumber5

No, we didn't.

we were not there to take over easter russia, northern vietnam, and china we were not there to end communism.

surrealnumber5

We were there to stop the north from consuming the south. We failed, and lost our dignity doing it.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

It wasnt exactly a success was it? Vietnam is communist now. I would say it was a loss.

Plus technically America "lost" the civil war. :D

Danm_999

How can the U.S. lose a war it wasn't involved in? Don't you guys get it?

The U.S. participation in Vietnam ended Jan. 1973 with a truce.

When the North Vietnamese successfully invaded South Vietnam in 1975 the United States had long since left the war.

The South Vietnamese lost the war, not the U.S. Again, how can the U.S. lose a war it was not involved in?

The U.S. successfully held up in a defensive War, and thanks to Vietnam being unpopular in the U.S., the U.S. left.

At the time the U.S. left, North Vietnam was prevented from successfully invading South Vietnam despite the elusive Viet Cong. Once the U.S. signed the peace treaty. war was no longer our affair, but rather in the hands of the South Vietnamese. These are facts.

The U.S. did not lose in Vietnam, it was simply an unpopular war which Kennedy mistakenly thought would lead to rampant communism if South Vietnam was successfully invaded. How many Communist countries do we have today? That's right, not many.

If there's one thing I'd agree with you on, it's that the U.S. didn't win over the hearts and minds of the Vietcong and other North Vietnamese sympathizers, but that was a rather impossible task anyways.

If you want to look at failure, look at the Soviet union's notched attepted invasion of neighboring Afghanistan, that's positively embarrasing.

Now, how much more basic can I get for you guys? Look at the logic, and take your European goggles off.

As for people bringing up other wars:

Neither side won in 1812, but if Andrew Jackson's Battle of New Orleans had been allowed the U.S. would have been victorious, as the U.S. army crushed the British in that battle. However unbeknown to those fighting, a treaty had been brokered on the other side of the Atlantic prior to the Battle. Took awhile to reach the North American continent.

The U.S. won against Iraq, that shouldn't even be questioned. That's just a fact anyway you spin it.

The U.S. may have troubles in Afghanistan (but nothing like the disastrous Soviet attempted invasion of Afghanistan), but U.S.-led forces successfully removed the Taliban from Afghanistan in short time.

i see no point in continuing this when you ignore the facts and only use your bias opinion,surrealnumber5

Actually, I'm pretty sure my argument was based in fact (ie; Thieu was President and Vietnam and said the Americans cut and run, the US began negotiating for peace two months after the massive Tet setback, the US was involved in massacres like My Lai etc.)

Empirically, I felt your argument lacked fact, and was based upon opinion. Of course, I'm hardly objective in that assessment.

if this is what they teach in sydney i am glad i went to school here. surrealnumber5

Right. Wouldn't want your world view demolished after all. USA = Good guys who always win, and only leave a conflict when they totally want to and have achieved their aims.

Them Australians who were one of the only Western nations who supported and deployed troops to Vietnam are a bunch of defeatists who teach their children a Communist Marxist doctrine. Shame on them.

one last note, the Tet Offensives completely demolished the viet cong as is the norm when ever civil forces try to fight a standing army, the fact that you consider it i victory for the viet cong is enough for me to walk away from this with my face palmedsurrealnumber5

Yep. After the Tet Offensives, the Viet Cong were never heard from again. North Vietnamese military and paramilitary groups completely failed to do anything in the next few years, like seize Saigon and end the South Vietnamese government. I guess taking losses in the short term means you lose the long term right.

[QUOTE="LustForSoul"]Europe obviously. US citizens spend more time in MCdonalds than on the field, nuff' said.Messiahbolical-

You'd do well at reading Ulysses and stuff like that!! D=

How can the U.S. lose a war it wasn't involved in? Don't you guys get it?

The U.S. participation in Vietnam ended Jan. 1973 with a truce.

When the North Vietnamese successfully invaded South Vietnam in 1975 the United States had long since left the war.

The South Vietnamese lost the war, not the U.S. Again, how can the U.S. lose a war it was not involved in?AFBrat77

I'll deal with this in one block.

Since from 1964 to withdrawal, the US was attempting to prevent South Vietnam from being consumed by the North. Seeing the writing on the wall, then bailing in the early 70s, is tantamount to failure, especially when you have the South Vietnamese President saying the US had abandoned their nation because it wasn't able to effectively deal with northern insurgents, or win hearts and minds in the south.

The USA spent billions of dollars, and lost almost 60,000 of its soldiers lives in attempting to keep the southern government afloat. They failed in the long term. They did not avert failure because they did not have pieces of paper declaring their overt involvement when Saigon fell.

At the time the U.S. left, North Vietnam was prevented from successfully invading South Vietnam despite the elusive Viet Cong. Once the U.S. signed the peace treaty. war was no longer our affair, but rather in the hands of the South Vietnamese. These are facts.AFBrat77

They are facts, but you're ignoring that a key reason the US signed the Paris Peace Accords was because of domestic pressure from the morale collapse that was the Tet Offensives, and a general weariness to continue a conflict that appeared ineffective, unresolved and immoral.

The U.S. did not lose in Vietnam, it was simply an unpopular war which Kennedy mistakenly thought would lead to rampant communism if South Vietnam was successfully invaded. How many Communist countries do we have today? That's right, not many.AFBrat77

Which is an indictment of the Dominio theory, not that the USA did a good job in Vietnam.

Now, how much more basic can I get for you guys? Look at the logic, and take your European goggles off.AFBrat77

Not a European FYI.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

Actually, I'm pretty sure my argument was based in fact (ie; Thieu was President and Vietnam and said the Americans cut and run, the US began negotiating for peace two months after the massive Tet setback, the US was involved in massacres like My Lai etc.)

Empirically, I felt your argument lacked fact, and was based upon opinion. Of course, I'm hardly objective in that assessment.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]if this is what they teach in sydney i am glad i went to school here. Danm_999

Right. Wouldn't want your world view demolished after all. USA = Good guys who always win, and only leave a conflict when they totally want to and have achieved their aims.

Them Australians who were one of the only Western nations who supported and deployed troops to Vietnam are a bunch of defeatists who teach their children a Communist Marxist doctrine. Shame on them.

one last note, the Tet Offensives completely demolished the viet cong as is the norm when ever civil forces try to fight a standing army, the fact that you consider it i victory for the viet cong is enough for me to walk away from this with my face palmedsurrealnumber5

Yep. After the Tet Offensives, the Viet Cong were never heard from again. North Vietnamese military and paramilitary groups completely failed to do anything in the next few years, like seize Saigon and end the South Vietnamese government. I guess taking losses in the short term means you lose the long term right.

@Danm_999

I could rebuttal everything you said, but honsestly this is like "beating a dead horse".

Neither of us will convince the other.

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

the yanks didnt lose vietnam :lol: next you'll be banging the "europe was losing till we turned up" drum

rose tinted glasses FTW

the yanks didnt lose vietnam :lol: next you'll be banging the "europe was losing till we turned up" drum

rose tinted glasses FTW

villa4europe

This.

dude if i were to make a time line of the events as you site them it would look like a plate of spaghetti, and your quote is from a completely bias source. surrealnumber5

The South Vietnamese President is biased against the US?

the facts have been layed many times in this thread as they occured and you just turn away.surrealnumber5

No, your opinions have been presented to me many times, which I have not agreed with, and your response has been you don't wish to argue anymore and ad hominem where I gained my understanding of the conflict as unreliable.

i also do not know where you get this usa= good guys, we are dicks a lot of the time, but that still does not change the fact that we have never LOST a war.

surrealnumber5

Arguably the USA lost the Seminole Wars, as well as the Vietnam War (though you're right, no official declaration or cessation of war was made).

@Danm_999

I could rebuttal everything you said, but honsestly this is like "beating a dead horse".

Neither of us will convince the other.

AFBrat77

the yanks didnt lose vietnam :lol: next you'll be banging the "europe was losing till we turned up" drum

rose tinted glasses FTW

villa4europe

well heh Churchill was BEGGING for our help, and yep Germans were winning before we got troops over to Britain in 1942.

I wonder how far Britain and Russia would have survived without the billions in aid the U.S. provided via the Lend-Lease program.....even prior to Dec 1941 ;)

But I suppose that gets conveniently forgotten or taken for granted by Europeans.

I showed step-by-step why the U.S. did not lose Vietnam, even a 3rd grader should be able to understand it.

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

@Danm_999

I could rebuttal everything you said, but honsestly this is like "beating a dead horse".

Neither of us will convince the other.

Danm_999

that can go either way

I showed step-by-step why the U.S. did not lose Vietnam, even a 3rd grader should be able to understand it.

AFBrat77

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

@Danm_999

I could rebuttal everything you said, but honsestly this is like "beating a dead horse".

Neither of us will convince the other.

AFBrat77

that can go either way

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

Ilovegames1992

[QUOTE="villa4europe"]

the yanks didnt lose vietnam :lol: next you'll be banging the "europe was losing till we turned up" drum

rose tinted glasses FTW

Ilovegames1992

This.

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]I showed step-by-step why the U.S. did not lose Vietnam, even a 3rd grader should be able to understand it.

Danm_999

fair enough

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]I showed step-by-step why the U.S. did not lose Vietnam, even a 3rd grader should be able to understand it.

Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]I showed step-by-step why the U.S. did not lose Vietnam, even a 3rd grader should be able to understand it.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"] the europeans i have met in person i have liked, for the most part but....[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="villa4europe"]

the yanks didnt lose vietnam :lol: next you'll be banging the "europe was losing till we turned up" drum

rose tinted glasses FTW

surrealnumber5

This.

In all honesty, this thread lost respect long ago after the Europe and America fanboys started going at it. It was just a laugh thats all. Do i gain my respect back by shouting "America, **** YEAH!!!!"?

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

Ilovegames1992

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

AFBrat77

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

It swings both ways really. It could be because we used to run the world before you guys and there is a resentment there. :D

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

AFBrat77

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

Ilovegames1992

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

It swings both ways really. It could be because we used to run the world before you guys and there is a resentment there. :D

There was that saying at one time, what was it, something like "the sun always rises on the British Empire".

In all honesty, this thread lost respect long ago after the Europe and America fanboys started going at it. It was just a laugh thats all. Do i gain my respect back by shouting "America, **** YEAH!!!!"?

Ilovegames1992

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

AFBrat77

It swings both ways really. It could be because we used to run the world before you guys and there is a resentment there. :D

There was that saying at one time, what was it, something like "the sun always rises on the British Empire".

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Man. Americans and Europeans really dont get along do they? And to think i was criticised in my thread for asking if Americans didnt really like British people.

Danm_999

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

that's so true, in real life I can get along with the Europeans and Canadians (my best friend growing up was Canadian whose dad moved here to Pa to teach in college) quite well, and of course my American heritage goes back to England and Germany so i blend in quite well.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] Let's be civil and mature enough to admit our disagreements over the Vietnam conflict are based in interpretational differences, not in inability to comprehend third grade curriciulum.

Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i think you over estimate your stance on the matter

surrealnumber5

Anyway, I'm done for the day, it was nice chatting with you. I hope our disagreements over historical interpretation don't create any hard feelings.

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

Irony is, I was stationed in England (U.S. Air Force) and got along very well with the British people (guess that's my British blood that lived in England at least 200 years ago), had my share of British girlfriends and got along fine with the blokes there. So it kind of blows my mind to see how much hatred there is towards Americans by the British, as if we agree with everything our government does (for the record I opposed George W. Bush in both elections).

I also lived 3 1/2 years in Germany while my dad was in the Air Force (interestingly I have German blood as well as British) and I was a rowdy teenager, loved it there, people seemed nice but I realize they were a beaten-down country. i plan to travel back to germany within a year.

AFBrat77

that's so true, in real life I can get along with the Europeans and Canadians (my best friend growing up was Canadian whose dad moved here to Pa to teach in college) quite well, and of course my American heritage goes back to England and Germany so i blend in quite well.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] I think that's a brave accusation for someone who couldn't identify the South Vietnamese President by name.Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] will the assumptions never end..... my historic 8Ball says outlook not good

surrealnumber5

If I'm guilty of hubris, so be it, doesn't really change that the President of South Vietnam felt the USA had cut and run, instead of this benign strategic withdrawal that precludes defeat you're trying to portray. Anyway, have a good one, I'm off.

Also, A correction to many, europeans don't hate americans, they hate the american government! And osme of them hate you for not opposing the vile things your government do in order for 'Justice and Equality'SPBoss

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

Messiahbolical-

I don't mind Europe or Europeans at all. I actually love Europe. I DO however mind my country getting stereotyped and ridiculed by Europeans on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ALL Europeans hate on America... but the amount of blind hatred for us out there is just astounding. I can't even log onto the computer these days without coming across some kind of insulting comments about America by Europeans.It's constant. And these are usually the same people that call Americans ignorant or unaccepting. See the hypocrisy there? Most of these people have never even been to America to begin with and yet they insult us as if they live here and have had to put up with us on a daily basis. Seriously, it seems like nobody gives America credit for anything positive we do anymore. We're no different than people in any other country, yet all we get is insulted everywhere we turn. It's really just getting old. But you know what, I can't really stop anyone from hating us, can I? It's going to happen no matter what. So if you must hate us, then go ahead and hate us. When it comes down to it though, the U.S. and most of Europe aren't enemies, so insulting one another is pointless.Messiahbolical-

Bravo!

This man PERFECTLY echoes my sentiments, and is perfectly on target. I think alot of Europeans (and others) need to look at themselves before criticizing the U.S. as they do. This is the heart of why I get bothered seeing the posts I do. I don't expect Europeans to agree with everything America says or does, but the blind hatred is completely uncalled for. By far, I'd say the majority of the 310 million Americans are good hard-working people, and i've lived all over this country.

Kudos to you my friend, truer words cannot be.

Your post was certainly the best post of the day IMO, better than my own. Some Europeans tend to look at videos of 20 Americans or even less being ignorant or fat and think its representative of a country with 310 million people :roll:

Oh and his post just 2 up is just as good really. Right on target.

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]I don't mind Europe or Europeans at all. I actually love Europe. I DO however mind my country getting stereotyped and ridiculed by Europeans on a regular basis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ALL Europeans hate on America... but the amount of blind hatred for us out there is just astounding. I can't even log onto the computer these days without coming across some kind of insulting comments about America by Europeans.It's constant. And these are usually the same people that call Americans ignorant or unaccepting. See the hypocrisy there? Most of these people have never even been to America to begin with and yet they insult us as if they live here and have had to put up with us on a daily basis. Seriously, it seems like nobody gives America credit for anything positive we do anymore. We're no different than people in any other country, yet all we get is insulted everywhere we turn. It's really just getting old. But you know what, I can't really stop anyone from hating us, can I? It's going to happen no matter what. So if you must hate us, then go ahead and hate us. When it comes down to it though, the U.S. and most of Europe aren't enemies, so insulting one another is pointless.AFBrat77

Bravo!

This man PERFECTLY echoes my sentiments, and is perfectly on target. I think alot of Europeans (and others) need to look at themselves before criticizing the U.S. as they do. This is the heart of why I get bothered seeing the posts I do. I don't expect Europeans to agree with everything America says or does, but the blind hatred is completely uncalled for. By far, I'd say the majority of the 310 million Americans are good hard-working people, and i've lived all over this country.

Kudos to you my friend, truer words cannot be.

Your post was certainly the best post of the day IMO, better than my own. Some Europeans tend to look at videos of 20 Americans or even less being ignorant or fat and think its representative of a country with 310 million people :roll:

Oh and his post just 2 up is just as good really. Right on target.

Canada is the most friendly nation on the planet and will probably guilt the enemy into surrender with their kindness. The first time I met a Canadian they were so nice that at first I thought they were being sarcastic.

Mexico is so screwed up from the drug wars that it may be safer for an invading army to avoid them all together. Invading forces will probably have their commanding officers assinated on a daily basis by the drug cartels.

The United States is the most heavily armed, violent nation in the solar system. Unless you use China to out number them, drop nukes on their major cities or use some other weapon of mass destruction, any talk of a successful invasion is a joke. You're talking about a country with more than 16,000 homicides a year, a country that still has a death penalty and uses it to execute more of their citizens than China, has fought more than 10 wars in the past 150 years one of those being a war they fought with themselves. When you look at the xenophobia from interment camps during WWII to comments surrounding their own president's birth cirtificate, it becomes clear that any foreign force stepping on American soil will be annihilated with extreme prejudice.

The US and it's not even a question.

Pirate700

the usa would win.

The United States is the most heavily armed, violent nation in the solar system. Unless you use China to out number them, drop nukes on their major cities or use some other weapon of mass destruction, any talk of a successful invasion is a joke. You're talking about a country with more than 16,000 homicides a year, a country that still has a death penalty and uses it to execute more of their citizens than China, has fought more than 10 wars in the past 150 years one of those being a war they fought with themselves. When you look at the xenophobia from interment camps during WWII to comments surrounding their own president's birth cirtificate, it becomes clear that any foreign force stepping on American soil will be annihilated with extreme prejudice.

genfactor

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

The US and it's not even a question.

supergoat777

the usa would win.