War between North America and Europe

[QUOTE="SPBoss"]Also, A correction to many, europeans don't hate americans, they hate the american government! And osme of them hate you for not opposing the vile things your government do in order for 'Justice and Equality'Messiahbolical-

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]

[QUOTE="SPBoss"]Also, A correction to many, europeans don't hate americans, they hate the american government! And osme of them hate you for not opposing the vile things your government do in order for 'Justice and Equality'sonofsmeagle

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] America's so vile compared to Europe, yet it's European countries that have committed genocide and other vile things. Makes a whole lot of sense, right? Seriously.

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

AngelNeo00

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] just pulling this off the top of my head but umm didnt you guys have to have a whole WAR about wether slavery was right or not?sonofsmeagle

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"]

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] If you knew American History you would certainly know that the Civil War was primarily fought because of state rights not slavery.AngelNeo00

Except the Japan's navy was in tatters, so was their airforce... They were the armless and legless Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, only able to do damage if you got close enough to him and he bit your legs off.. All the United States had to do was blockade them.. I digress because this is off topic..

This would be a war the United States would not want to committ too inless they had no other choice.. The entire Europe has around 7 air craft carriers, a significant fighting force (especially if they conscript) and a large industry amongst them all.. The United States may win but at a unacceptable cost in this era when first world countries only go to war against weaker third world countries..

Also, A correction to many, europeans don't hate americans, they hate the american government! And osme of them hate you for not opposing the vile things your government do in order for 'Justice and Equality'SPBoss

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] America's so vile compared to Europe, yet it's European countries that have committed genocide and other vile things. Makes a whole lot of sense, right? Seriously.

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

AngelNeo00

...with the existence of slavery being one - important - one. Was that not the case?

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] ok then you can argue about that but what about the nukes being dropped on civilians?

sSubZerOo

Except the Japan's navy was in tatters, so was their airforce... They were the armless and legless Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, only able to do damage if you got close enough to him and he bit your legs off.. All the United States had to do was blockade them.. I digress because this is off topic..

This would be a war the United States would not want to committ too inless they had no other choice.. The entire Europe has around 7 air craft carriers, a significant fighting force (especially if they conscript) and a large industry amongst them all.. The United States may win but at a unacceptable cost in this era when first world countries only go to war against weaker third world countries..

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] just pulling this off the top of my head but umm didnt you guys have to have a whole WAR about wether slavery was right or not?poptart

...with the existence of slavery being one - important - one. Was that not the case?

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] If you knew American History you would certainly know that the Civil War was primarily fought because of state rights not slavery.MgamerBD

...with the existence of slavery being one - important - one. Was that not the case?

Of course - no denying that. Just no point in repackaging it as generic 'state rights' 'tis all.

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] just pulling this off the top of my head but umm didnt you guys have to have a whole WAR about wether slavery was right or not?poptart

...with the existence of slavery being one - important - one. Was that not the case?

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] If you knew American History you would certainly know that the Civil War was primarily fought because of state rights not slavery.AngelNeo00

...with the existence of slavery being one - important - one. Was that not the case?

Just pointing out you dismissed the suggestion it was slavery and in place suggested the far softer state rights. Rather than dismiss better to say exactly what those state rightrs are. And not sure the point of this deviation from the original topic at hand is anyway - it's hit a few a tangents somewhere of late. Bah who cares/

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] just pulling this off the top of my head but umm didnt you guys have to have a whole WAR about wether slavery was right or not?sonofsmeagle

The nukes bother me quite a bit, but i realize it was necessary to do this, the loss of American lives invading Japan would have been incredibly high and hate to say it, this is WAR. The loss of huge numbers of American lives would have been unacceptable. It pains me to say it, but it was the right decision.

You can blame the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb on Hirohito and his gang, we gave the Japanese every opportunity to surrender, with them knowing what the U.S. could do, but they stubbornly declined.

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"] America's so vile compared to Europe, yet it's European countries that have committed genocide and other vile things. Makes a whole lot of sense, right? Seriously.

What has America done so vile and disgusting compared to Europe? I'm dying to hear the ridiculous conspiracies you pull out of your ass. The American government gets the most unjustified hate out of any group of people in the world. Maybe not the best government in the world, but certainly not "vile" like so many people make them out to be.

Nazi Germany(which in Europe btw) = Vile

Rwanda genocide = Vile

Armenian genocide by the Ottoman Empire(another empire that was in Europe) = Vile

So what has America done that's so vile?

And to be quite honest, if all Europeans hated was our government... what explains the constant ridiculing and stereotyping of Americans by saying garbage like "all Americans do is sit on their fat asses and eat McDonalds" or "Americans are so stupid"? Is that because of our government? LOL :roll:

AngelNeo00

I hate to oppose a fellow American here but basically (among other things) it was fought because of state rights to permit slavery.

However, several European countries are also guilty of slavery and other atrocious acts, often times in the name of Christianity.

Though in fairness we had the Salem witch trials in the Colonies......but come to think of it the key word is "Colonies",we were part of British territory then.

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] ok then you can argue about that but what about the nukes being dropped on civilians?

Fundai

The nukes bother me quite a bit, but i realize it was necessary to do this, the loss of American lives invading Japan would have been incredibly high and hate to say it, this is WAR. The loss of huge numbers of American lives would have been unacceptable. It pains me to say it, but it was the right decision.

You can blame the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb on Hirohito and his gang, we gave the Japanese every opportunity to surrender, with them knowing what the U.S. could do, but they stubbornly declined.

pardon if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure peace was being negotiated at the dropping of the second

The U.S. repeatedly warned the Japanese to surrender prior to the dropping of the atomic bombs, and the U.S. was simply ignored. I don't like the idea of killing civilians any more than you guys do, but if it prevents the death of an enormous number of good young American soldiers, its necessary in war.

I bet most sensible governments would have reached the same conclusion had they been in American shoes. Okinawa was a bloodbath, and of course so was Iwo Jima. How much more motivated would the Japanese be to fight in their own country?

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] ok then you can argue about that but what about the nukes being dropped on civilians?

Fundai

This makes me alomst sick... The first bomb was only nescary at a stretch. The second was dropped while the peace treaty was under negotiation...

The U.S dropped the second bomb to get more of what they wanted from Japan. It was dropped as a show of force. so yes, the US has commited some horrible stuff...

[QUOTE="AFBrat77"]

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] If you knew American History you would certainly know that the Civil War was primarily fought because of state rights not slavery.Fundai

I hate to oppose a fellow American here but basically (among other things) it was fought because of state rights to permit slavery.

However, several European countries are also guilty of slavery and other atrocious acts, often times in the name of Christianity.

Though in fairness we had the Salem witch trials in the Colonies......but come to think of it the key word is "Colonies",we were part of British territory then.

but done by people whos ancestors now call themselves americans

possibly, but you do not know that for sure, perhaps for some reason they decided to fight for the British side in the American Revolutionary War.

We will never know.

On the whole nuke thing, why didnt the US drop the nukes on japanese military bases instead of undefended cities?

No matter what the intentions were i dont think anything justifies bombing innocent civilians especially nuking them.

If your referring to WWII, the nukes were necessary to end the war with Japan. Why risk millions of U.S. troops and far more civilian deaths? Without the U.S. fighting Japan, Japan would have taken over nearly the entire Pacific including Australia AngelNeo00

Except the Japan's navy was in tatters, so was their airforce... They were the armless and legless Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, only able to do damage if you got close enough to him and he bit your legs off.. All the United States had to do was blockade them.. I digress because this is off topic..

This would be a war the United States would not want to committ too inless they had no other choice.. The entire Europe has around 7 air craft carriers, a significant fighting force (especially if they conscript) and a large industry amongst them all.. The United States may win but at a unacceptable cost in this era when first world countries only go to war against weaker third world countries..

This thread is hillarious.

"My country's army could beat your country's army"

a bunch of

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] If your referring to WWII, the nukes were necessary to end the war with Japan. Why risk millions of U.S. troops and far more civilian deaths? Without the U.S. fighting Japan, Japan would have taken over nearly the entire Pacific including Australia AngelNeo00

This makes me alomst sick... The first bomb was only nescary at a stretch. The second was dropped while the peace treaty was under negotiation...

The U.S dropped the second bomb to get more of what they wanted from Japan. It was dropped as a show of force. so yes, the US has commited some horrible stuff...

Well the bombing campaigns as orchestrated by 'Bomber' Harris has often come under fire for the reasons you've mentioned - those tactics were certainly not without critisism. Regardless, the atomic bomb symbolises much more than the equivalent of the those killed by conventional bombing runs. Conventional bombs at the time could be devastating if used en masse as they were. The atomic bomb was simply devastating full stop. It was the definitive weapon, andthe only weapon that could stop a war completely in its tracks.

On the whole nuke thing, why didnt the US drop the nukes on japanese military bases instead of undefended cities?

No matter what the intentions were i dont think anything justifies bombing innocent civilians especially nuking them.

sonofsmeagle

On the whole nuke thing, why didnt the US drop the nukes on japanese military bases instead of undefended cities?

No matter what the intentions were i dont think anything justifies bombing innocent civilians especially nuking them.

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] Bombing cities during WWII was very common. Both sides were bombing cities especially the Germans. And contrary to popular belief carpet bombings was causing much more civilian deaths than the atomic bombs.Fundai

It was a show of force... wrong, but nothing more than a show of force

The USA has the largest defence budject in the world, so i got to bet with the NA. But to be honest there never would be a sitution when the EU would turn against the US and NA.

Mobilizing a force to invade the USA would take months, and then getting them accross an ocean is another issue.

On the whole nuke thing, why didnt the US drop the nukes on japanese military bases instead of undefended cities?

No matter what the intentions were i dont think anything justifies bombing innocent civilians especially nuking them.

[QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"][QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] Bombing cities during WWII was very common. Both sides were bombing cities especially the Germans. And contrary to popular belief carpet bombings was causing much more civilian deaths than the atomic bombs.AngelNeo00

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sonofsmeagle"] i know the facts i'm just stating that any bombing of innocent civilians isnt right and should not be done and what the US did by dropping 2 atomic bombs on pretty much completely undefended and strategically insignifigant cities was completey wrong and evil.sonofsmeagle

Although you didn't start the whole side conversation of vile acts by each side you did support the poster who did start it. So saying the dropping of nukes on Japan wrong does not help your overall position

on the topic of Vietnam being a loss, if South Korea was to be taken over by North Korea and turned communist, would that mean that the US "lost" the Korean war?

on the topic of Vietnam being a loss, if South Korea was to be taken over by North Korea and turned communist, would that mean that the US "lost" the Korean war?

Whatuptho

on the topic of Vietnam being a loss, if South Korea was to be taken over by North Korea and turned communist, would that mean that the US "lost" the Korean war?

Whatuptho

[QUOTE="AngelNeo00"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Except the Japan's navy was in tatters, so was their airforce... They were the armless and legless Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail, only able to do damage if you got close enough to him and he bit your legs off.. All the United States had to do was blockade them.. I digress because this is off topic..

This would be a war the United States would not want to committ too inless they had no other choice.. The entire Europe has around 7 air craft carriers, a significant fighting force (especially if they conscript) and a large industry amongst them all.. The United States may win but at a unacceptable cost in this era when first world countries only go to war against weaker third world countries..

chris_yz80

The Japanese probably did plan to invade Australia. U.S.-led forces at Guadalcanal were pivotal in preserving Henderson Field and preventing the Japanese from disrupting supply lines from U.S. to Australia, not to mention air strikes over Australia.

"The American victory at Guadalcanal ensured that Australia was safe from a Japanese invasion while the sea route from Australia to America was also protected. The role played by the US 1st Marine Division and its commander, Vandegrift, have gone down in Marine Corps history."

Source: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/battle_of_guadalcanal.htm

"Should the Japanese maintain control of the island, they would construct an airfield suitable for fighters and bombers alike. These systems could then target and generally wreak havoc on the Australian mainland in preparation for an all-out invasion. Additionally, this forward staging area could be used by the Japanese Army and Navy to harass and ultimately disrupt vital shipping lanes between the United States and Australia, placing a stranglehold on the island nation."

Source: http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com/battle-of-guadalcanal.asp

[QUOTE="chris_yz80"][QUOTE="AngelNeo00"] That may be true but I don't see how Australia would have been able to withstand massive bombing and a invasion by the Japaneses. Anyways I should of noted in the OP that this would be a total war. So that would mean both side would be allow to do massive carpet bombing raids and etc.AFBrat77

The Japanese most certainly did plan to invade Australia. U.S.-led forces at Guadalcanal were pivotal in preserving Henderson Field and preventing the Japanese from disrupting supply lines from U.S. to Australia.

"The American victory at Guadalcanal ensured that Australia was safe from a Japanese invasion while the sea route from Australia to America was also protected. The role played by the US 1st Marine Division and its commander, Vandegrift, have gone down in Marine Corps history."

Source: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/battle_of_guadalcanal.htm

They planned to knock it out of the war, and deny the USA the ability to keep troops and supplies there, but as for making it part of their Empire? A ground invasion? No.

Japanese records indicate that was never a viable option. The Japanese High Command knocked around the idea, the Navy was keen for it, but it was eventually rejected by the Army because it'd be a logistical nightmare for a few reasons. Westerners THOUGHT they were going to (which your sources allude to) and the Australian government used it as a propaganda tool, but that 20/20 we get from hindsight shows us it wasn't going to happen.

Firstly, Australia is about as big as the continental USA. To control that territory would be too much for the already waning Japanese supply lines. Secondly, Japan's campaign was about creating a Pan-Asian Prosperity sphere. The vast majority of Australians are European descended, and would not be suitable citizens in that order.

Wikipedia actually does a pretty decent summary of the issue, along with quotes and sources. All this is not to say of course that the Australians and Americans did not THINK the Japanese were going to invade Australia. We actually had a plan in place to abandon everything north of Brisbane in an invasion (much to Queenslander's chagrin).

on the topic of Vietnam being a loss, if South Korea was to be taken over by North Korea and turned communist, would that mean that the US "lost" the Korean war?

Whatuptho

No. As far as Americans were concerned, the Vietnam war ended in Jan. 1973 with neither side victorious. By the same token the Korean War ended in 1952. Any conflict in the future on the Korean peninsula would be new.

And this is exactly my point with Vietnam, the U.S. was 2 years removed from the Vietnam War when Saigon was overrun. The loss belonged to the SVA.

This video defines why people hate the american government

Now I've been to America and Im glad to see the american people are fine (apart from when I went south Texas, enough racism there)

This video defines why people hate the american government

Now I've been to America and Im glad to see the american people are fine (apart from when I went south Texas, enough racism there)

SPBoss

This video defines why people hate the american government

Now I've been to America and Im glad to see the american people are fine (apart from when I went south Texas, enough racism there)

SPBoss

[QUOTE="SPBoss"]

This video defines why people hate the american government

Now I've been to America and Im glad to see the american people are fine (apart from when I went south Texas, enough racism there)

AngelNeo00

Not defending the guy but what little I watched he is talking about foreign policy of the nation.. :| You don't have to be a citizen to be critical of a foreign policy of a nation that affects countless worldwide since the 1950s..

Don't you guys already have a crapload of troops in Europe anyway? killerfist

like a few hundred thousand in Germany.

[QUOTE="killerfist"]Don't you guys already have a crapload of troops in Europe anyway? sSubZerOo

like a few hundred thousand in Germany.