What do you guys think about Islam in France?

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

So...like 4% of 64 million or so people want something that no one else supports and you think they'll get it?

Pixel-Pirate

I believe earlier you said ten percent of the population was muslim and that 40% of that ten percent want theocratic law. Thats where I got 4% from.

So yes. 4%. Or somewhere around there. Unless 100% of the UK is Muslim.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"] I'm not saying it would ever happen. But I'm saying that they have some nerve in moving to somewhere else and demanding things.BMD004

Many cultures do this. There are population of hispanics who move to the US and demand everyone know or learn spanish to accomodate them. These people are usually a minority within a minority.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"] I'm not saying it would ever happen. But I'm saying that they have some nerve in moving to somewhere else and demanding things.BMD004

Many cultures do this. There are population of hispanics who move to the US and demand everyone know or learn spanish to accomodate them. These people are usually a minority within a minority.

It isn't, but it also isn't special or unique to Islamic culture, which is what people keep seeming to say. That only Muslims go and do this when MANY cultures, if not all, do this.

Where I live I could find you a

Chinese neighborhood (all signs in chinese, most inhabitants chinese)

Arabic Neighborhood

Korean Neighborhood

Japanese Neighborhood

And many many many hispanic neighbor hoods.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, wrong in two ways: firstly the figure is 40%, and secondly, the percentage for Muslims as a whole will inevitably be much higher because British muslims are more moderate and civilised than muslims as a whole.BAHAHAHAHAHA

I believe earlier you said ten percent of the population was muslim and that 40% of that ten percent want theocratic law. Thats where I got 4% from.

So yes. 4%. Or somewhere around there. Unless 100% of the UK is Muslim.

Someone said 10%. I could go back and look. But as you are so knowledgeable, you should know the muslim population percentage of the UK. Derive 40% out of that, not 40% out of the entire country.

And if you don't think they'll get that, then why are you so adamantly against them? If they arn't going to be able to do anything, then whats with the false urgency?

Edit: Ah, I got confused abit. Obesebanana said 10% of France is Islamic.

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Many cultures do this. There are population of hispanics who move to the US and demand everyone know or learn spanish to accomodate them. These people are usually a minority within a minority.

Pixel-Pirate

It isn't, but it also isn't special or unique to Islamic culture, which is what people keep seeming to say. That only Muslims go and do this when MANY cultures, if not all, do this.

Where I live I could find you a

Chinese neighborhood (all signs in chinese, most inhabitants chinese)

Arabic Neighborhood

Korean Neighborhood

Japanese Neighborhood

And many many many hispanic neighbor hoods.

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Mochyc"]The funny thing is, I'm not even muslim. I'm only using reason. And the fact is OP, I don't think France needs people like you who are racist and xenophobic. I think you should stay the hell out of my country. Mochyc

See, it cuts both ways.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"] I understand that... and it's not right. BMD004

It isn't, but it also isn't special or unique to Islamic culture, which is what people keep seeming to say. That only Muslims go and do this when MANY cultures, if not all, do this.

Where I live I could find you a

Chinese neighborhood (all signs in chinese, most inhabitants chinese)

Arabic Neighborhood

Korean Neighborhood

Japanese Neighborhood

And many many many hispanic neighbor hoods.

This is fairly common with first generation foreigners trying to integrate into society.

And for some people, it does seem to be a problem as atleast one poster here had a problem with a small part of the UK having a muslim neighborhood.

And again, who cares what they demand? Plenty Christians in the US demand that our laws be changed to suit their desires, but we generally ignore them.

Ignore the radical muslims instead of insisting that ALL Muslims need to "GTFO"

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

It isn't, but it also isn't special or unique to Islamic culture, which is what people keep seeming to say. That only Muslims go and do this when MANY cultures, if not all, do this.

Where I live I could find you a

Chinese neighborhood (all signs in chinese, most inhabitants chinese)

Arabic Neighborhood

Korean Neighborhood

Japanese Neighborhood

And many many many hispanic neighbor hoods.

Pixel-Pirate

This is fairly common with first generation foreigners trying to integrate into society.

And for some people, it does seem to be a problem as atleast one poster here had a problem with a small part of the UK having a muslim neighborhood.

And again, who cares what they demand? Plenty Christians in the US demand that our laws be changed to suit their desires, but we generally ignore them.

Ignore the radical muslims instead of insisting that ALL Muslims need to "GTFO"

I'll kindly see myself out of this topic until I can better figure out where I stand fully.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I believe earlier you said ten percent of the population was muslim and that 40% of that ten percent want theocratic law. Thats where I got 4% from.

So yes. 4%. Or somewhere around there. Unless 100% of the UK is Muslim.

Pixel-Pirate

Someone said 10%. I could go back and look. But as you are so knowledgeable, you should know the muslim population percentage of the UK. Derive 40% out of that, not 40% out of the entire country.

And if you don't think they'll get that, then why are you so adamantly against them? If they arn't going to be able to do anything, then whats with the false urgency?

Edit: Ah, I got confused abit. Obesebanana said 10% of France is Islamic.

Maybe French people should just have more kids to ensure their culture doesnt get "overshadowed"?

Ok, I think I've got it. The USA has always had a strong Christian population since the beginning. Those Christian folks have always been around, and simply want the country to be more conservative and Christian like it used to be.

It's not like they moved here and tried to take over.

Maybe French people should just have more kids to ensure their culture doesnt get "overshadowed"?

Lief_Ericson

[QUOTE="Lief_Ericson"]

Maybe French people should just have more kids to ensure their culture doesnt get "overshadowed"?

Mochyc

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, no, I said no such thing. Nor did I say that I thought they'd get it.BAHAHAHAHAHA

Someone said 10%. I could go back and look. But as you are so knowledgeable, you should know the muslim population percentage of the UK. Derive 40% out of that, not 40% out of the entire country.

And if you don't think they'll get that, then why are you so adamantly against them? If they arn't going to be able to do anything, then whats with the false urgency?

Edit: Ah, I got confused abit. Obesebanana said 10% of France is Islamic.

It is relevant. It shows how large or small the population that wants it is. You say "40% of muslims in the UK" but without knowing the population of muslims in the UK, it loses weight. 40% may sound big but if it's, say, 40% of a thousand, it is not.

You're basically constantly saying 40% to make it sound as if a huge portion of the country wants it, but we don't know how much that 40% is. If, figuratively speaking, 10% of the UK consists of Muslims, and 40% of that 10% wants Sharia law, then thats essentially a very small percentage. Less than 5% of the population.

You keep acting as if a huge amount of people want this, but are just telling us to believe you that it is a huge amount, and not a small percentage.

I'd be more concerned about fighting against bigots who can actually enforce racist and anti-foreigner policies such as the BNP, than I worry about Islamic people magically using mind control tech to force everyone in the country to vote for sudden rapid sharia law.

Ok, I think I've got it. The USA has always had a strong Christian population since the beginning. Those Christian folks have always been around, and simply want the country to be more conservative and Christian like it used to be.

It's not like they moved here and tried to take over.

BMD004

Except the US was never a christian nation, and as such their demands to change the very fabric of the country to suit their desires is just as wrong as muslims wishing to do that on another country.

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Someone said 10%. I could go back and look. But as you are so knowledgeable, you should know the muslim population percentage of the UK. Derive 40% out of that, not 40% out of the entire country.

And if you don't think they'll get that, then why are you so adamantly against them? If they arn't going to be able to do anything, then whats with the false urgency?

Edit: Ah, I got confused abit. Obesebanana said 10% of France is Islamic.

Pixel-Pirate

It is relevant. It shows how large or small the population that wants it is. You say "40% of muslims in the UK" but without knowing the population of muslims in the UK, it loses weight. 40% may sound big but if it's, say, 40% of a thousand, it is not.

You're basically constantly saying 40% to make it sound as if a huge portion of the country wants it, but we don't know how much that 40% is. If, figuratively speaking, 10% of the UK consists of Muslims, and 40% of that 10% wants Sharia law, then thats essentially a very small percentage. Less than 5% of the population.

You keep acting as if a huge amount of people want this, but are just telling us to believe you that it is a huge amount, and not a small percentage.

I'd be more concerned about fighting against bigots who can actually enforce racist and anti-foreigner policies such as the BNP, than I worry about Islamic people magically using mind control tech to force everyone in the country to vote for sudden rapid sharia law.

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

Ok, I think I've got it. The USA has always had a strong Christian population since the beginning. Those Christian folks have always been around, and simply want the country to be more conservative and Christian like it used to be.

It's not like they moved here and tried to take over.

Pixel-Pirate

Except the US was never a christian nation, and as such their demands to change the very fabric of the country to suit their desires is just as wrong as muslims wishing to do that on another country.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

Ok, I think I've got it. The USA has always had a strong Christian population since the beginning. Those Christian folks have always been around, and simply want the country to be more conservative and Christian like it used to be.

It's not like they moved here and tried to take over.

BMD004

Except the US was never a christian nation, and as such their demands to change the very fabric of the country to suit their desires is just as wrong as muslims wishing to do that on another country.

1. What Christian principles? The only "principles" we follow that I can think of are universal ones such as "Don't kill people" and "do not steal".

2. And? Many were also not-christian and some spoke out against christianity.

3. We've always had many Christians. That does not make our country Christian or our culture christian.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="BAHAHAHAHAHA"]Um, the figures for the whole UK are irrelevant because my claim was that large proportions of Muslims, not large proportions of Brits, support Sharia law. At any rate, I don't consider it relevant that the number of people who support it is low - it's still importance to fight Sharia every step of the way because otherwise that number is likely to grow.BAHAHAHAHAHA

It is relevant. It shows how large or small the population that wants it is. You say "40% of muslims in the UK" but without knowing the population of muslims in the UK, it loses weight. 40% may sound big but if it's, say, 40% of a thousand, it is not.

You're basically constantly saying 40% to make it sound as if a huge portion of the country wants it, but we don't know how much that 40% is. If, figuratively speaking, 10% of the UK consists of Muslims, and 40% of that 10% wants Sharia law, then thats essentially a very small percentage. Less than 5% of the population.

You keep acting as if a huge amount of people want this, but are just telling us to believe you that it is a huge amount, and not a small percentage.

I'd be more concerned about fighting against bigots who can actually enforce racist and anti-foreigner policies such as the BNP, than I worry about Islamic people magically using mind control tech to force everyone in the country to vote for sudden rapid sharia law.

Then what is your point? We should dislike Muslims being in non-Muslim countries because you dislike how some theocracies run?

[QUOTE="flash_drive"]Does it matter? This is like asking how I feel about Christian people who live in Beverly Hills.ObeseBanana

Wow, so I don't usually get involved in this sort of thing (since everybody can never agree on anything), but I just couldn't resist contributing to this bloodbath because I'm shocked by how many of you here are missing one fundamental point: ALL religions are a problem!

I honestly can't believe people attack Islam as though any of the other major religions are any better, either from a modern standpoint or a historical standpoint. Christianity destroyed an enlightened civilization that had lasted thousands of years, and several centuries later instituted the crusades and the dark ages, setting humanity back a few hundred. Middle Eastern nations were beacons of progress and civility until Islam began sweeping in and, through generation after generation and revision after revision, things just got worse and worse. Then Christianity came in and destroyed it some more. Orthodox Jews spit on non-believers and hit their head against a mystical wall!

Technology? Science? Human progress? None of those count when religion is involved, nor are they espoused. It has done absolutely nothing but fuel hatred, indoctrination and disillusionment with reality. And the shocking reality of it is that, even though the upfront religious fanatacism and control is long gone from the civilzed world (for the most part), in the 21st century there exists a more subtle form of religious indoctrination, practiced by those who would otherwise shrug their shoulders and say , "indoctrination? non-sense, we're just trying to help people and spread our love".Or some other similiar naivete.

Look at Alcoholics Anonymous. You have to put up with forced religious drivel against your will if you want to get clean. Look at missionary work. They profess to help and love the people they help around the world, but they can't seem to resist slipping in a subtle "Jesus loves you" and "God accepts you into his heart" every time they're off helping some poor unfortunate souls in trouble spots around the world. Naturally, these people then equate religion, in that case Christianity, with goodness and purpose if they're being helped. Thus, the conversion begins. Many legal systems still make you swear on the Bible/Koran/Torah/etc. For Christ's sake, it even pervades our everyday language!

I have many Arab friends who are AWESOME people. They're not the problem. The problem is that far too often people equate ethnicity and other factors with religion, they are not the same. People are capable of true greatness. Religions are not.

Religion will ALWAYS hold humanity back.

SilverIce7

The Middle East prospered in areas of Chemistry and other areas of science and society long after Islam (and possibly due to Islam; Muhammad himself was considered a feminist for his time). The rest of it's a rant based on bigoted opinion.

Aww come on, nobody's gonna stand up and try to prove me wrong after my last point? I thought belief systems were stubborn!

SilverIce7

If only people understood why it was soo easy for muslims to come to france this wouldnt be a problem about islam. Most Algerians, morrocans, tunisians speak french and is taught in there home country because of the history of french colonialism. These former colonies of the french happened to have inhabitants of people moslty of the muslim religion thus when you speak of muslims in france most of them come from algeria, morroco and other north african countries that where former colonies of the french.

It's very concerning. In our country there's fairly many Muslim immigrants, but they integrate into the society very easy and don't practice islam, or drop it altogether.

The thing about Islam is it creates a "them vs Us" situation....the kuffar vs the believer.

Really gets on my nerves thats why its very difficult for many Muslims to assimilate into european culture.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="SilverIce7"]

Wow, so I don't usually get involved in this sort of thing (since everybody can never agree on anything), but I just couldn't resist contributing to this bloodbath because I'm shocked by how many of you here are missing one fundamental point: ALL religions are a problem!

I honestly can't believe people attack Islam as though any of the other major religions are any better, either from a modern standpoint or a historical standpoint. Christianity destroyed an enlightened civilization that had lasted thousands of years, and several centuries later instituted the crusades and the dark ages, setting humanity back a few hundred. Middle Eastern nations were beacons of progress and civility until Islam began sweeping in and, through generation after generation and revision after revision, things just got worse and worse. Then Christianity came in and destroyed it some more. Orthodox Jews spit on non-believers and hit their head against a mystical wall!

Technology? Science? Human progress? None of those count when religion is involved, nor are they espoused. It has done absolutely nothing but fuel hatred, indoctrination and disillusionment with reality. And the shocking reality of it is that, even though the upfront religious fanatacism and control is long gone from the civilzed world (for the most part), in the 21st century there exists a more subtle form of religious indoctrination, practiced by those who would otherwise shrug their shoulders and say , "indoctrination? non-sense, we're just trying to help people and spread our love".Or some other similiar naivete.

Look at Alcoholics Anonymous. You have to put up with forced religious drivel against your will if you want to get clean. Look at missionary work. They profess to help and love the people they help around the world, but they can't seem to resist slipping in a subtle "Jesus loves you" and "God accepts you into his heart" every time they're off helping some poor unfortunate souls in trouble spots around the world. Naturally, these people then equate religion, in that case Christianity, with goodness and purpose if they're being helped. Thus, the conversion begins. Many legal systems still make you swear on the Bible/Koran/Torah/etc. For Christ's sake, it even pervades our everyday language!

I have many Arab friends who are AWESOME people. They're not the problem. The problem is that far too often people equate ethnicity and other factors with religion, they are not the same. People are capable of true greatness. Religions are not.

Religion will ALWAYS hold humanity back.

SilverIce7

The Middle East prospered in areas of Chemistry and other areas of science and society long after Islam (and possibly due to Islam; Muhammad himself was considered a feminist for his time). The rest of it's a rant based on bigoted opinion.

This thread just exploded with hate. Oh God what have I done.

[QUOTE="SilverIce7"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] So much wrong in one post. . . Christianity did not destroy Rome (I assume that's the culture you're talking about?); Rome fell due to many invasions and crumbling socio-political climate, among other things, over a century after Christianity became the state religion. Let's not forget that Rome was never a secular state either; they had their own religions throughout history.

The Middle East prospered in areas of Chemistry and other areas of science and society long after Islam (and possibly due to Islam; Muhammad himself was considered a feminist for his time). The rest of it's a rant based on bigoted opinion.

Theokhoth

I would love it, then, if you produced a list of what you'd consider to be the good that religion has done for humanity. I need a good laugh.

It's very concerning. In our country there's fairly many Muslim immigrants, but they integrate into the society very easy and don't practice islam, or drop it altogether.

fooZar777

Why should they drop their religion? :|

This thread just exploded with hate. Oh God what have I done.

ObeseBanana

It did that about 9 pages ago.

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

It's very concerning. In our country there's fairly many Muslim immigrants, but they integrate into the society very easy and don't practice islam, or drop it altogether.

Pixel-Pirate

Why should they drop their religion? :|

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="SilverIce7"] Personally, I would take everything YOU say with a grain of salt, since you have a bias of your own. Just what is your angle? SilverIce7

I would love it, then, if you produced a list of what you'd consider to be the good that religion has done for humanity. I need a good laugh.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Johnathan Daniels

Pope John Paul II

Mother Teresa

Gandhi

Plato

Winston Churchill

Saladin

St. Francis of Assisi

St. Augustine

St. Jeanne

Greg Mortenson

Martin Luther

William Mayo

Thomas Cranmer

John Donne

Kerim Kerimov

Farouk El-Baz

Ahmed H. Zewail

Siddhartha

The Dalai Lama

Kumurajiva

John Crook

Alexander Hamilton

Boethius

Machiavelli

John Milton

Dante

Dostoevsky

J.D. Salinger

Yash Aggarwal

FDR

JFK

T.S. Eliot

Robert Hooke

Marilyn Monroe

Jean-Paul Sartre

John Locke

Thomas Hobbes

Jean-Jacques Rousseau

I have more.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="fooZar777"]

It's very concerning. In our country there's fairly many Muslim immigrants, but they integrate into the society very easy and don't practice islam, or drop it altogether.

LJS9502_basic

Why should they drop their religion? :|

It sounded to me like the fact they were dropping their religion was to be used as a silver lining for a bad situation. Specifically because it was conjoined with "they integrate into our society very easy (positive)".

[QUOTE="SilverIce7"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] You post a huge, fact-barren rant on religion and you call ME biased? :|Theokhoth

I would love it, then, if you produced a list of what you'd consider to be the good that religion has done for humanity. I need a good laugh.

It's so wonderful that you have more. I also think its so wonderful what an arrogant and smug know-it-all you seem to be with seemingly anyone who posts anything of any historical significance. A regular, walking Episcopalypse.

Your list didn't really get what I was driving it, but that's alright because I've decided to end discussing this whole topic anyways. As I said in my very first post, I usually avoid these quagmires as religious debate will always result in a no-win situation for all involved. I suggest everyone else do the same.....

SilverIce7

I'm rather alarmed at the growth of Islam throughout the world, not just America. When Muslims are in the vast majority, I'm fairly certain that freedom of religion goes out the door. Head_of_games

[QUOTE="SilverIce7"]

It's so wonderful that you have more. I also think its so wonderful what an arrogant and smug know-it-all you seem to be with seemingly anyone who posts anything of any historical significance. A regular, walking Episcopalypse.

Your list didn't really get what I was driving it, but that's alright because I've decided to end discussing this whole topic anyways. As I said in my very first post, I usually avoid these quagmires as religious debate will always result in a no-win situation for all involved. I suggest everyone else do the same.....

Theokhoth

I'm rather alarmed at the growth of Islam throughout the world, not just America. When Muslims are in the vast majority, I'm fairly certain that freedom of religion goes out the door. Head_of_games

The same can be said of any one religion being the vast majority of the world.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] because culture is a human trait and not one tied to geographical features. :) I can't help it. I'm just too smart.SolidSnake35

I wouldn't mind seeing visiting or moving to other countries in future, but I sure as hell aint going to start speaking their lingo and taking on their customs. Just because I may emigrate in the future doesn't mean I will stop celebrating Christmas.