Who else thinks that rap should not be considered music?

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="tsb247"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="tsb247"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="tsb247"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="tsb247"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="tsb247"]I would not call rap music, and I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it a poetic art form, but I'll go ahead and agree with that part. I suppose it depends on a lot of things... I don't listen to rap at all, and I'm usually annoyed by it. However, if there is a decent message conveyed well, then I suppose you can call it a poetic art form.tsb247

If you don't listen to it, how can you possibly assert that it's not music?

Just because I don't listen to it doesn't mean I've never been exposed to it. I hear it all the time. Whether it's from TV, the radio, or other people that happen to have a boom box, I have heard enough to for my opinion here. Most of it is just crap anywhay, but that's mostly due to the subject matter chosen nowadays. I've broken rap into two categories thusfar:

1. Complaining - The rapper is complaining about their life, misfortune, being mistreated by someone, or anything for that matter.

2. Boasting - The rapper is bragging about their supopsed riches, fame, and so on.

Like I said... Not my kind of music, but I certainly have heard worse.

True. I never said I was the king of absolutes.

Try listening to this.

Mercenary - Lost Reality

MY favorite song as of this moment.

I don't mean to attack rap... I'm just not a fan, and I can be quite opinionated sometimes. It's cool. I know you aren't.

Yes, I did. However, I never said it was all garbage like the TC. However, I have yet to hear any that I truly enjoy, and I do have my opinions... I know... I don't make much sense... I'm exhausted.

I don't think MAINSTREAM rap should be considered music because most of that is amelodic and just a synthesized drum beat

Thyeora

Sorry, but a synthesized drum beat is music.

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.Vyse_The_Daring

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

Very good =/= the best.

Look.Rap is garbage. I dont care what I said anymore. Rap sucks. Listen to you're crappy untalented music. You guys will never understand talent. You guys just try to keep on defending you're music because you know its garbage. You can compare rappers abilities and a musician like kirk hamett's. Kirk hamett has more talent than any rapper. Thats all I have to say. Im done and dont plan to listen to rap anymore because of you ignorant fools. I already know what youre gonna say so just save it.airg6

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.-Austin-

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

I don't see how any musically educated person can even begin to consider rap not being music. If you are a pianist, I don't see how you can really fail to classify rap as music.

Meh. I consider rap to be more of... I don't know if there's a word for it. But if there is a word for a kind of spoken word/poetic art form, it's that.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UruJKq5kaUM

^^ so what is that? It's a stupid chamillionaire song, but how are you going to say it's just "spoken words"?

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.-Austin-

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Orlando_Magic

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

I think you lose.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

Oh...I thought you were suggesting that rap isn't music. I don't know why I thought that. Maybe it's because you said it a half a dozen times?

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

shyskillz

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.Funky_Llama

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

I think you lose.

But so do you....

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.Funky_Llama

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

I think you lose.

[QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

After his whole 2 paragraphs with the main point being you can't change the definition of rap music, you pull that little detail out of it as your response?

That's pretty much indirectly admitting defeat.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.airg6

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

I think you lose.

[QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

The key word is thinks. Any group of kids with some instruments and a garage think they can be in a rock band too.

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]Fine. Cliff burton is more talented than any rapper.-Austin-

Notice how you keep making that statement and you've had to change the name several times? Give it up.

How so? Are they better lyricists?

And, Cliff is a better lyricist than every rapper ever?

When you start contradicting yourself in an argument, your probably wrong.

Oh...I thought you were suggesting that rap isn't music. I don't know why I thought that. Maybe it's because you said it a half a dozen times?

Hey, he's the TC too. He must've spent the last 11 pages backing down from 'rap is crap' to 'I don't like rap'.

[QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

Do you realize how ignorant statements like that are? Kanye is one of the biggest rappers out right now and he is from the Suburbs.

It's like me saying, any 16 year old that comes from a trailer park thinks he can shred.

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

The_Mac_Daddy

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

After his whole 2 paragraphs with the main point being you can't change the definition of rap music, you pull that little detail out of it as your response?

That's pretty much indirectly admitting defeat.

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

-Austin-

Do you realize how ignorant statements like that are? Kanye is one of the biggest rappers out right now and he is from the Suburbs.

It's like me saying, any 16 year old that comes from a trailer park thinks he can shred.

[QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

i knew some one got at you with some grimy verses, lmao.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

So, you would think it's okay that I hate rock music just because of the Jonas Brothers? You don't understand how idiotic that is.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Orlando_Magic

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

You certainly implied that I was claiming it.

[QUOTE="-Austin-"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

Do you realize how ignorant statements like that are? Kanye is one of the biggest rappers out right now and he is from the Suburbs.

It's like me saying, any 16 year old that comes from a trailer park thinks he can shred.

You don't listen to rap, so why are you trying to tell me what the lyrics are always about.

That's like saying, "Thats what most metal bands sing about right, their affection for satan."

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

That's pathetic. So I can call art crap because of a child's drawing?

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

Funky_Llama

That's pathetic. So I can call art crap because of a child's drawing?

Well you insist rap isn't music, so I don't know what you think.

The real question is "Who else thinks death metal should not be considered music?" :|chrisrooR

Nobody...It's a stupid question. It has every part of music theory that is neccesary for a song.

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

Funky_Llama

That's pathetic. So I can call art crap because of a child's drawing?

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

-Austin-

That's pathetic. So I can call art crap because of a child's drawing?

Well you insist rap isn't music, so I don't know what you think.

Not on that basis.

Anyway, I'm done. I've said that rap can be art, and it can be as good as music, and that I don't think it's music because the speech elements are the most important so it's more of a poetic art form, so now all that's left is to argue semantics, which I can't be bothered to do.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

Actually you did say that

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

Funky_Llama

You weren't using the dictionary definition as an argument. The dictionary states that music has elements of melody, harmony, rhythm, and color. You already admitted rap had melody, you just said melody wasn't central to the music of rap. Then you claimed that melody had to be central to the music for it to be considered music, which is not the definition of music at all, and is just you changing the definition of music.

Like I stated before, melody is not central to many avant-garde composers in cIassical and jazz music. Go listen to some free jazz by John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or Ornette Coleman. Melody is not central in any of their free jazz compositions and it's still music...

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="airg6"][QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

swizz-the-gamer

That's pathetic. So I can call art crap because of a child's drawing?

:roll: At no point have I ever, even once, claimed that rap is crap, or inferior to music. Stupid assumption to make.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

After his whole 2 paragraphs with the main point being you can't change the definition of rap music, you pull that little detail out of it as your response?

That's pretty much indirectly admitting defeat.

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

mainstreem rap today is mostly about the beat.

Anyway, what does "speech elements" have to do with anything anyway? If there is music playing, who cares if the singer is singing, rapping, screaming, burping, coughing, sneezing, whatever? The person who is singing or rapping is considered an instrument. The only real difference between singers and rappers is the delivery. It doesn't make any one less musical.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

Orlando_Magic

You weren't using the dictionary definition as an argument. The dictionary states that music has elements of melody, harmony, rhythm, and color. You already admitted rap had melody, you just said melody wasn't central to the music of rap. Then you claimed that melody had to be central to the music for it to be considered music, which is not the definition of music at all, and is just you changing the definition of music.

Like I stated before, melody is not central to many avant-garde composers in cIassical and jazz music. Go listen to some free jazz by John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or Ornette Coleman. Melody is not central in any of their compositions and it's still music...

No...jazz is just art now.....it's equal to music...but it's not music ;)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

Orlando_Magic

You weren't using the dictionary definition as an argument. The dictionary states that music has elements of melody, harmony, rhythm, and color. You already admitted rap had melody, you just said melody wasn't central to the music of rap. Then you claimed that melody had to be central to the music for it to be considered music, which is not the definition of music at all, and is just you changing the definition of music.

Like I stated before, melody is not central to many avant-garde composers in cIassical and jazz music. Go listen to some free jazz by John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or Ornette Coleman. Melody is not central in any of their compositions and it's still music...

I think it has musical elements, but I don't c l a s sify it by them because the speech elements are the most important, which is why I consider it more like poetry than music. If you took away the speech, the musical elements would come to the fore, and I'd call it music. I think we agree more than you think; this is just semantics.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

The_Mac_Daddy

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

After his whole 2 paragraphs with the main point being you can't change the definition of rap music, you pull that little detail out of it as your response?

That's pretty much indirectly admitting defeat.

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

mainstreem rap today is mostly about the beat.

Anyway, what does "speech elements" have to do with anything anyway? If there is music playing, who cares if the singer is singing, rapping, screaming, burping, coughing, sneezing, whatever? The person who is singing or rapping is considered an instrument. The only real difference between singers and rappers is the delivery. It doesn't make any one less musical.

If they're singing, melody is the core element.