Who else thinks that rap should not be considered music?

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

Funky_Llama

You weren't using the dictionary definition as an argument. The dictionary states that music has elements of melody, harmony, rhythm, and color. You already admitted rap had melody, you just said melody wasn't central to the music of rap. Then you claimed that melody had to be central to the music for it to be considered music, which is not the definition of music at all, and is just you changing the definition of music.

Like I stated before, melody is not central to many avant-garde composers in cIassical and jazz music. Go listen to some free jazz by John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or Ornette Coleman. Melody is not central in any of their compositions and it's still music...

I think it has musical elements, but I don't c l a s sify it by them because the speech elements are the most important, which is why I consider it more like poetry than music. If you took away the speech, the musical elements would come to the fore, and I'd call it music. I think we agree more than you think; this is just semantics.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I fail to see why everyone's getting so annoyed. I would like to clarify that though I do not consider rap to be music, I'm not saying that it is inferior to music; I think rap can be an art form, and it can be as 'good' as music.

And yeah, that movie/music comparison was really stupid. I don't know what I was thinking.:?

Funky_Llama

Eh? Hang on! I never once said that rappers have no talent! Think before you accuse.

After his whole 2 paragraphs with the main point being you can't change the definition of rap music, you pull that little detail out of it as your response?

That's pretty much indirectly admitting defeat.

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

mainstreem rap today is mostly about the beat.

Anyway, what does "speech elements" have to do with anything anyway? If there is music playing, who cares if the singer is singing, rapping, screaming, burping, coughing, sneezing, whatever? The person who is singing or rapping is considered an instrument. The only real difference between singers and rappers is the delivery. It doesn't make any one less musical.

If they're singing, melody is the core element.

The point is it doesn't really matter what's the core element and what's not. If you take away the rapper, THEN it's music? But when you add that extra instrument (the rapper) it all of a sudden is NOT music? That is terrible logic. It is music with or without the rapper (or singer).

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

The 2nd bit was simply wrong. I mean, I was using the dictionary definition as an argument.

I think if you removed the speech elements, it would become music. But since the speech is the main thing, it's more of a spoken art form.

Orlando_Magic

You weren't using the dictionary definition as an argument. The dictionary states that music has elements of melody, harmony, rhythm, and color. You already admitted rap had melody, you just said melody wasn't central to the music of rap. Then you claimed that melody had to be central to the music for it to be considered music, which is not the definition of music at all, and is just you changing the definition of music.

Like I stated before, melody is not central to many avant-garde composers in cIassical and jazz music. Go listen to some free jazz by John Coltrane, Eric Dolphy, or Ornette Coleman. Melody is not central in any of their compositions and it's still music...

I think it has musical elements, but I don't c l a s sify it by them because the speech elements are the most important, which is why I consider it more like poetry than music. If you took away the speech, the musical elements would come to the fore, and I'd call it music. I think we agree more than you think; this is just semantics.

Is there? Well, I think I'd definitely call that music.

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

Acapella is not music?swizz-the-gamer

...What? Eh? I don't understand. It's based solely on singing. Of course it's music.

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

The_Ish

So do audiobooks.

Acapella is not music?swizz-the-gamer

"it is because the melody is at the forefront. the singers are making the melody". Funky Llama will say something like that, you can bet on it.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

Funky_Llama

So do audiobooks.

Audio-books are not necessarily meant to entertain...

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

Funky_Llama

So do audiobooks.

Audio-books are not necessarily meant to entertain...

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]Acapella is not music?The_Mac_Daddy

"it is because the melody is at the forefront. the singers are making the melody". Funky Llama will say something like that, you can bet on it.

Well, yeah, I did.

I think that people should let others listen to whatever kind of music they want, regardless of if they think it sucks. Just because all of it doesn't have a variety of instruments or a genuinely deep meaning, doesn't mean it isn't music. Isocked_feet

I don't see why it can't have a deep meaning.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]Acapella is not music?The_Mac_Daddy

"it is because the melody is at the forefront. the singers are making the melody". Funky Llama will say something like that, you can bet on it.

Well, yeah, I did.

I think that people should let others listen to whatever kind of music they want, regardless of if they think it sucks. Just because all of it doesn't have a variety of instruments or a genuinely deep meaning, doesn't mean it isn't music. Isocked_feet

I don't see why it can't have a deep meaning.

[QUOTE="Zaeryn"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="Zaeryn"]Of course it's music. I think it's garbage music, but it's still music.swizz-the-gamer

You just had to post that name, my favorite rap group.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]Acapella is not music?Funky_Llama

...What? Eh? I don't understand. It's based solely on singing. Of course it's music.

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

The_Ish

So do audiobooks.

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="Zaeryn"][QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="Zaeryn"]Of course it's music. I think it's garbage music, but it's still music.Mercenary848

You just had to post that name, my favorite rap goup

The people stating that rap neglects melody and harmony don't understand what melody is. Because the words aren't sung that meansit's not music? Is recitative not music?

Most of the guys that come into these threads to criticize rap are classic rock/metal elitists with no understanding of the genre. I saw some posts by the threadstarter in another thread and he was constantly contradicting himself. There's no point trying to talk to these guys.

Open your minds.

[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

Funky_Llama

So do audiobooks.

Audio-books are not necessarily meant to entertain...

Music sucks. Why are we even having this discussion.NecroKvltMuffin

Yeah seriously.

Music is dumb.

I think it's music. You may not like it but it's still music.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]Acapella is not music?swizz-the-gamer

...What? Eh? I don't understand. It's based solely on singing. Of course it's music.

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

The_Ish

So do audiobooks.

Are you willing to claim that rap is singing? No. Exactly.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

The_Ish

So do audiobooks.

Audio-books are not necessarily meant to entertain...

They certainly can be. When they're fiction.

The people stating that rap neglects melody and harmony don't understand what melody is. Because the words aren't sung that meansit's not music? Is recitative not music?

Most of the guys that come into these threads to criticize rap are classic rock/metal elitists with no understanding of the genre. I saw some posts by the threadstarter in another thread and he was constantly contradicting himself. There's no point trying to talk to these guys.

Open your minds.

Forever_Changes

Nice. Tar us all with the same brush.

And, uh, you do realise that recitative is sung, right?

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]Acapella is not music?Funky_Llama

...What? Eh? I don't understand. It's based solely on singing. Of course it's music.

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

The_Ish

So do audiobooks.

Are you willing to claim that rap is singing? No. Exactly.

Nice. Tar us all with the same brush.Funky_Llama

Most of the guys that come into these threads to criticize rap are classic rock/metal elitists with no understanding of the genre.

Forever_Changes

by the way, what do you listen to?

And, uh, you do realise that recitative is sung, right?

Funky_Llama

it falls between speech/song but that's not really what I was saying. It was a comment on melody, although I could have phrased it better.

I think it shouldn't be! Eh? If it were music it should be pleasing to teh ears, but...it AIN'T! It's just beat box and a fat mouth remixed.1mpaler-w6rbnd

I think it shouldn't be! Eh? If it were music it should be pleasing to teh ears, but...it AIN'T! It's just beat box and a fat mouth remixed.1mpaler-w6rbnd

[QUOTE="The_Ish"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="The_Ish"]

It requires sound to get the message through. It's music.

Funky_Llama

So do audiobooks.

Audio-books are not necessarily meant to entertain...

They certainly can be. When they're fiction.

Not really. The point of an audio-book is for those who can't read well or can't see.

Uh... What? There's more to rap than the commercial stuff you hear. Rapping can be combined with all kinds of instrumentation and dynamics. Rap may not be what you like but its pretty insulting to people who do like it to say it isn't music. It IS music. Rap has structures, complex rythms and can have experimental instrumentation. It can be a bit sparse melodically, but that can be said with any genre of music.

manicfoot

so why is it mostly about drugs,dissrespecting women and them talk about how better off they are then the people who eat it up

The Roooooooooooooooots!tmac200913

Hells yes!

Just because rap is newer than rock, it doesn't mean its not music.

[QUOTE="shyskillz"]

I think someone embarrassed him with a battle rapp and he just can't get over the humiliation.

If it doesn't make dollars then it doesn't make cents. Rapp is big bucks...so there are a majority of ppl liking it and i doubt they are so jealous of other genres that they have to make childest threads about it.....I haven't laugh at someone so hard in a while...keep it up please....i'm in stitches over here. :lol:

airg6

Just like any idiot 16 year old with a guitar thinks he's arockstar because he can strum a few chords. That's mainly why I hate rock.

See what I did there?

rap that keeps talking about money, hoes, and killing people should not be considered music. however, there is plenty of good rap out there. just keep looking.mistervengeance

the content of the lyrics has nothing to do with weather it's music or not...

Rap is most certainly music. Yes, it is very much focused on poetry and is as much a form of poetic delivery as a musical form (frankly the poetry tends to be far more interesting than the music from an artistic point of view), but it is the addition of a constant, steady pulse that makes it music. If you say rap is not music, then you must also dismiss things like African tribal drumming or Japanese kabuki music, as such musical forms are, like rap, bereft of what Westerners consider to be melody and traditional harmony (the absence of which makes an uninformed listener assume that rap isn't music).

Im not saying that. Most rap is untalented.most rap does not contain the properties that make up music. I could make a rap record if I tried hard enough. I just have to make a beat,write some lyrics and practice rhyming. Rappers dont even have to have good voices because all they do is talk.airg6

I think you don't know what you're talking about, since rap very clearly demonstrates the most basic, fundamental property of music.

[QUOTE="Orlando_Magic"]

[QUOTE="airg6"]I no what youre trying to get me to understand. You think im generalizing the whole genre of rap because of the mainstream rap like lil wayne. I just dont think that their is much rap that is good. You can name all the people you want. Ive heard most of the people youve named in the topic I made about a week ago. I just cant enjoy most of it.
Funky_Llama

Does it? You ignored melody and harmony.

Not all of the fundamental characteristics need be present. A simpler definition would be "purposefully organized sound." What that means is that if a person produces a sequence of sounds with artistic intent, it could be considered music. The definition would not apply to something like a car alarm, because although the alarm is organized sound, it was not organized with artistic intent. But if a composer USED a car alarm in one of his compositions, it would then be considered part of the music.

If you demand that melody and harmony be part of all music, you have summarily eliminated all non-pitched percussion music from your definition - including cool stuff like this or this.

You don't understand the concept of talent. Anybody can lock themselves in their bedroom and practice 8 hours a day and play alot of notes really fast. That's not talent.

-Austin-

To some extent I agree with you - but the ability to play certain works exceptionally demands more than simple practice. I've personally known a lot of musicians who practiced diligently but never had the talent to cut it as professional musicians. There's a big difference between simple technical ability and being able to USE it to produce an artful interpretation that lots of people want to hear.

Gah! Your topic makes me sick... Rap is music. You listen to music by choice. If you don't like rap don't listen to it. Just let it be... THE END!

I would also like to point out that it takes less talent to be a rapper. Can they play any kind of instrument? Most can't. Can they sing (and I mean REALLY sing... As in carry a note)? I have yet to see it. Haven't you noticed that there are new rappers popping up almost every day, but rarely do you hear of any other kind of musician. That's because rapeprs are a dime a dozen nowadays. It's just too easy.tsb247

Virtuosity is not a requirement of music, nor is the amount of skill required to play it a measure of how musical something is. By comparison to avant garde cIassical music, rock music is pathetically easy to play. Does that make rock music any less 'musical' than avant garde cIassical music?