Why do some people think being a h0mosexual, is a choice?

It can be a choice, for those who got burned by the opposite so badly that they opt to "play for the other team".

It is probably not a choice for those whose brains make up are fundamentally different than heterosexuals. I have read some articles about how similar the brains make up are for criminals who are classified as sociopath under the CAT scan. What is surprising is that the author of the article, out of curiosity, took a CAT scan himself and was startled to find that he possess a brain that is highly similar to a sociopath, but according to the author himself and those around him, he displayed no trace ofsuch characteristics.

He proceeded to reason that, although he does have the biological makeup to be a sociopath, his good upbringing ultimately led him to live a good normal life instead of turning into a criminal. In another words, the natural tendency is there, but the environment prevented the tendency to manifest itself.

I'm thinking homosexuality, like sociopathtendency, function in similar fashion. With the right trigger it might manifest itself when a person is well into their adulthood, not fully aware of ones sexual orientation but merely act out of societal expectation. Nevertheless, I have yet to see any publications/research in this regard

ariz3260

I think I saw that on NPR.

The problem is I think we are making judgements and causes to the point where we reach and basically guess. I do wish there would be more research but this is a very sensitive subject. It can cover everything from why and hows of male behavior, liberal/conservative and the dangers of psychological Kevlar.

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

It can be a choice, for those who got burned by the opposite so badly that they opt to "play for the other team".Animatronic64

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

It can be a choice, for those who got burned by the opposite so badly that they opt to "play for the other team".ariz3260

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

It can be a choice, for those who got burned by the opposite so badly that they opt to "play for the other team".ariz3260

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

If You see how much trouble some homosexual people have, especially in middle eastern countries where they glue them closed and let them walk till they die, then You should understand it is at least not always a choice.

20% of animals of a species is homosexual if possible. And i think 15% shy... can't remember that one for sure.

xaos

Can you give me an idea where you got those numbers? Also, those percentages doesnt include humans do they? If so, there are more gays in the US than blacks

[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

It can be a choice, for those who got burned by the opposite so badly that they opt to "play for the other team".ariz3260

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

Homosexuality in the context of "he is a homosexual man" refers to the former; the latter definition would make no sense in that context.

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="iamdisappointed"]The examples you give pertain to the fluidity of sexuality, which is different to whether it's chosen - people being in prison for so long that they'll bum anything is hardly a relevant issue. And what reason do you have to think that the concepts of female and male brains are rejected in academia?iamdisappointed

Well the idea of that children are genderless with their thoughts and desires, that it is the environment that shapes the behavior and instant's of people. I personally disagree with that, but psychologists andwomen's groups advocate it and ridicules anyone who says otherwise.

they say its was sexism and patriarchy that developed the concept of the male and female brain. Whatever difference they do concede to, is usually argued that its so trivial that there is fundamentally no difference

I agree

In this instance, the US desire for parity and equality at all costs have blinded them from conventional truths that most of the world share. thats why in the US, where school separate by learning styles, they are attacked as promoting stereotypes and sued. The defense is that the inherit instincts is what segregates, not a nefarious plot to perpetuate stereotypes.

I think it's a choice, there are people who are born with desire for the same sex, but most people don't ,it's a matter of choice.rmfd341

Contradicting yourself is generally not a good way of making an argument.

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

[QUOTE="Animatronic64"]Forcing yourself to have sex or be in a relationship with the same sex, isn't the same concept as actually being attracted to the same sex.

GabuEx

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

Homosexuality in the context of "he is a homosexual man" refers to the former; the latter definition would make no sense in that context.

I think I saw that on NPR.

The problem is I think we are making judgements and causes to the point where we reach and basically guess. I do wish there would be more research but this is a very sensitive subject. It can cover everything from why and hows of male behavior, liberal/conservative and the dangers of psychological Kevlar.

majwill24

I think that's where I saw it :P

I think its a subject that derserves more attention, at least just to reduce the irrational fear some people have towards it. I'm not sure if people are ready to deal with the aftermath though...

"What do you mean my CAT scan shows my brain are highly similiar to those of gay people?"

Nothing against homosexuality personally, but I can imaginethe shock from the majority of people

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

IamSquat

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

I think I saw that on NPR.

The problem is I think we are making judgements and causes to the point where we reach and basically guess. I do wish there would be more research but this is a very sensitive subject. It can cover everything from why and hows of male behavior, liberal/conservative and the dangers of psychological Kevlar.

ariz3260

I think that's where I saw it :P

I think its a subject that derserves more attention, at least just to reduce the irrational fear some people have towards it. I'm not sure if people are ready to deal with the aftermath though...

"What do you mean my CAT scan shows my brain are highly similiar to those of gay people?"

Nothing against homosexuality personally, but I can imaginethe shock from the majority of people

Yeah I think evolutionary psychology, sociology, neuroscience etc are suffering from political correctness and the fear of what those finding can mean. I see it as the lefts creationism-evolution debate.

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

IamSquat

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

IamSquat

[QUOTE="IamSquat"]

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

Bourbons3

Yes Homosexuals can choose to be gay or to be straight. Sure one of those would suck and you wouldn't want to do it but you could still choose to do so. Just like a straight guy can choose to be gayl0ve

Well, they have found that hom0sexuels are born with a difference in their brains. Some people are also born with a difference in their brain for alchoholism.. They don't have to continue on with that "difference" they can either choose to be ignorant and stay that way, or they can change it.. So they do have a choice, its just that those people are more inclined to be that way, but they can choose not to. Its always their decision.

Yes Homosexuals can choose to be gay or to be straight. Sure one of those would suck and you wouldn't want to do it but you could still choose to do so. Just like a straight guy can choose to be gayl0ve

[QUOTE="l0ve"]Yes Homosexuals can choose to be gay or to be straight. Sure one of those would suck and you wouldn't want to do it but you could still choose to do so. Just like a straight guy can choose to be gayBourbons3

[QUOTE="Animatronic64"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"] People don't stop being alcoholics just because they haven't had a drink in a while. That's why they're called "recovering alcoholics". Same goes for gay people. Choosing to not have sex doesn't change your sexuality. A gay person is gay whether they choose to act on it or not.super_mario_128

It may be a step above but homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, its just that bestiality is much, much farther off.

however, consistent with my views, unless there is identifiable evidence of harm to the animal, the people who are attracted to animals and enjoy such sexual acts should not be persecuted

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="l0ve"]Yes Homosexuals can choose to be gay or to be straight. Sure one of those would suck and you wouldn't want to do it but you could still choose to do so. Just like a straight guy can choose to be gayl0ve

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"][QUOTE="l0ve"]Yes Homosexuals can choose to be gay or to be straight. Sure one of those would suck and you wouldn't want to do it but you could still choose to do so. Just like a straight guy can choose to be gayl0ve

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"][QUOTE="Animatronic64"]Yeah, and it's a bit strange to compare alcoholism with sexuality, too. majwill24

It may be a step above but homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, its just that bestiality is much, much farther off.

however, consistent with my views, unless there is identifiable evidence of harm to the animal, the people who are attracted to animals and enjoy such sexual acts should not be persecuted

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"] Though it's a step above comparing it to bestiality.super_mario_128

It may be a step above but homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, its just that bestiality is much, much farther off.

however, consistent with my views, unless there is identifiable evidence of harm to the animal, the people who are attracted to animals and enjoy such sexual acts should not be persecuted

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"] Though it's a step above comparing it to bestiality.super_mario_128

It may be a step above but homosexuality is a deviation from the norm, its just that bestiality is much, much farther off.

however, consistent with my views, unless there is identifiable evidence of harm to the animal, the people who are attracted to animals and enjoy such sexual acts should not be persecuted

What rights do the bird get when you buy it from a pet shop and keep trapped into a small cage where it cant fly? Or all the livestock we slaughter. It just seems disingenuous to show compassion selectively.

We as humans do it because we can.

Animals also get no say in whether they're slaughtered for food, so presumably you're a vegetarian?iamdisappointed

How the hell is it a choice? Did you wake one day and choose to be attracted to whatever you're attracted to? No, you just felt attracted to it. I mean, I guess if you somehow medically altered your thought process, you could call it a "choice". But, ultimately, it's not a choice. Like, I never chose to be attracted to women, I just am, and for as long as I remember. His statement makes perfect sense. You don't have the power to naturally change what you're mind and body is attracted to. The only people who are still arguing that it's a choice probably have something deeply against homosexuality.

Animatronic64

first of all, why are you linking the idea of choice with the phyiscal brain? the concept of freely choosing has nothing to do with the physical anatomy of the brain

you DO have the power to naturally change what you're mind and body is attracted to. Imagine finding a brick of gold, will you desire to hold on to it? probably. but if you do some reasearch and find out it's actually fake gold. By knowing the true nature of the object, your attraction naturally and effortlessly falls away.

suggesting homosexuality is a choice isn't about hate, it's about considering the idea that you are NOT simply a product of genetics or mathematical probabilities.

you DO have the power to naturally change what you're mind and body is attracted to. Imagine finding a brick of gold, will you desire to hold on to it? probably. but if you do some reasearch and find out it's actually fake gold. By knowing the true nature of the object, your attraction naturally and effortlessly falls away.

smchacko

I'm not sure how that illustrates that you can change what you're attracted to. Of course you would stop wanting a brick of gold if you found out that it wasn't actually gold. But that doesn't mean you've stopped wanting a brick of gold in the abstract; it just means you've changed the facts under which your brain is operating.

Because they're ignorant.scorch-62

No one chooses, because life would be so much easier if people could. Just ask yourself; Did I choose? Or is that just who I am?

[QUOTE="ariz3260"]

They can still be. Homosexuality is defined as

1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.

2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.

It can either be the desire and the act of. Unless its definition changes

GabuEx

Homosexuality in the context of "he is a homosexual man" refers to the former; the latter definition would make no sense in that context.

Maybe I'm just old fashion, I have trouble calling a man heterosexual when he has sexual relations with another man.

And I think the definition of who qualifies as a homosexual (not base on act, but base purely on one's self report attraction to whichever gender) is too narrow of a qualifier to determine one's sexuality. Furthermore, I would contend that self report is another concept that is not 100% guarantee accurate.

I don't believe it is a choice. Why would anyone choose that? It's hardwired.

Maybe I'm just old fashion, I have trouble calling a man heterosexual when he has sexual relations with another man.

And I think the definition of who qualifies as a homosexual (not base on act, but base purely on one's self report attraction to whichever gender) is too narrow of a qualifier to determine one's sexuality. Furthermore, I would contend that self report is another concept that is not 100% guarantee accurate.

ariz3260

I'm not talking about self-reporting, I'm talking about actuality. Whether or not a person admits sexual attraction towards someone has nothing to do with whether or not that attraction actually exists.

A man is homosexual if he feels sexual attraction towards other men and does not feel sexual attraction towards women. What's too narrow about that?

[QUOTE="smchacko"]first of all, why are you linking the idea of choice with the phyiscal brain? the concept of freely choosing has nothing to do with the physical anatomy of the brainiamdisappointed

lets say there is a sickness that causes some people to have symptom A, and others to have symptom B

a physician comes along and says there is a free, safe and tested cure for the main sickness, then the physician prescribes a treatment

some of the sick people use the treatment and other sick people refuse it

how can you say that people who still have either Symptom A or Symptom B aren't choosing to live that way?

I did read every post in this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something already said, but I think when people preach homosexuality is a choice, they are are implying that participating in homosexual behavior is the choice they are talking about.

Just because you are gay doesn't mean you have to participate in gay behavior. that's the a part of being a choice

(note: i hold no prejudice against straight or gays, just explaining how I think some people see it)

lets say there is a sickness that causes some people to have symptom A, and others to have symptom B

then, someone comes along and says there is a free, safe and tested cure for the main sickness, then that person prescribes the treatment

some of the sick people use the treatment and other sick people refuse it

how can you say that people who still have either Symptom A or Symptom B aren't choosing to live that way?

smchacko

I'm failing to see how that analogy works when one applies it to homosexuality, which neither has a cure nor even is a disease requiring one. Furthermore, the presence of identifiable physical differences between heterosexual and homosexual people's brains is a strong indication that sexual desire is hardwired into someone's brain, whereas the same is not true for true arbitrary choices such as what clothing to wear in the morning (there is no structural difference in the brain that can identify one who prefers blue shirts compared to those who prefer red shirts).

[QUOTE="iamdisappointed"][QUOTE="flazzle"]

I did read every post in this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something already said, but I think when people preach homosexuality is a choice, they are are implying that participating in homosexual behavior is the choice they are talking about.

Just because you are gay doesn't mean you have to participate in gay behavior. that's the a part of being a choice

(note: i hold no prejudice against straight or gays, just explaining how I think some people see it)

testfactor888

[QUOTE="smchacko"]

lets say there is a sickness that causes some people to have symptom A, and others to have symptom B

then, someone comes along and says there is a free, safe and tested cure for the main sickness, then that person prescribes the treatment

some of the sick people use the treatment and other sick people refuse it

how can you say that people who still have either Symptom A or Symptom B aren't choosing to live that way?

GabuEx

I'm failing to see how that analogy works when one applies it to homosexuality, which neither has a cure nor even is a disease requiring one. Furthermore, the presence of identifiable physical differences between heterosexual and homosexual people's brains is a strong indication that sexual desire is hardwired into someone's brain, whereas the same is not true for true arbitrary choices such as what clothing to wear in the morning (there is no structural difference in the brain that can identify one who prefers blue shirts compared to those who prefer red shirts).

I didn't mean homosexuality or heterosexuality is a disease,

what i mean is that the sexual preference is more like a symptom of the root cause which is the desire for sex. And despite the brain anatomy, people have a choice to eliminate that desire if they make the effort.

Homosexuality is a psychological disorder. Usually it depends on how the person was raised as a child. And then it can be because the person had a sexually disturbing past. So it kinda could be a choice but then again it cant.

I didn't mean homosexuality or heterosexuality is a disease,

what i mean is that the sexual preference is more like a symptom of the root cause which is the desire for sex. And despite the brain anatomy, people have a choice to eliminate that desire if they make the effort.

smchacko

People can opt not to pursue their sexual desire, but that doesn't change their sexual orientation. I'm not a terribly sexually active person, and I have much better things to do in life than to try to find someone with whom to have sex, but that doesn't mean that I'm somehow not heterosexual.