Why exactly is incest still illegal??

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]and frankly it's not normalihateaynrand

[QUOTE="ihateaynrand"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]and frankly it's not normalLJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="ihateaynrand"][QUOTE="Solid_Tango"]It pains me to see that i live in a society in which people think a mother should be allowed to have sex with her son. You guys should be ashame of yourselves.Strider_91

If incest were legal, there would be perversion of every kind, not to mention major birth defects and other nasty side affects. Besides the point of it being immoral and wrong, it is a thing that would cause endless pain to parents and further add to the destruction of the family unit, whats left of it anyways.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="ihateaynrand"]The bottom of the argumentative barrel, ladies and gentlemen.ihateaynrand

Incest is generally looked down upon for many reasons. Most commonly it usually involves at least one person who is either underage, unwilling, or both. I think that all but the most liberal of people would look down upon that behavior. If it's between two consenting adults, then that's a little different. I'd still find it quite gross from both a social norm standard and a health issue, but there may be some argument for its legality amongst consenting adults.

It's outrageous. I finger my sister and all of a sudden I'm 'weird' and 'perverted.'

Incest is still the "in" thing on off-topic?Wilfred_Owen

It is psychologically, emotionally, ethically and scientifically wrong to have sexual relations with a close family member who's related. If you want proof, just look at the Habsburg royal family in the 16th century.hiphops_savior

[QUOTE="Wilfred_Owen"]Incest is still the "in" thing on off-topic?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]screw it I'll bite... If you put the mental "OK" into people thats its acceptable for siblings to have sex then that causes all kinds of problems for parents... Just think of all those nights you may have spend in your PJ's on your sister bed watching movies and eating candy... Sex never crossed your mind. However, if she was just some chick you could bang then siblings could never be left alone again... It would be the same as letting a girl from school spend the night in your kids bed...ihateaynrand

Edit: Also the whole "grow up with" thing is BS. There are plenty of females I grew up with that I want to ... None of them are related to me... The relation is the key.

Thats my point, we are designed to not "like" our siblings... If you OK it then eventually that will change and become wide spread... People change over time... jeremiah06

Just like gay marriage will turn all the kids gay.

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]screw it I'll bite... If you put the mental "OK" into people thats its acceptable for siblings to have sex then that causes all kinds of problems for parents... Just think of all those nights you may have spend in your PJ's on your sister bed watching movies and eating candy... Sex never crossed your mind. However, if she was just some chick you could bang then siblings could never be left alone again... It would be the same as letting a girl from school spend the night in your kids bed...ihateaynrand

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]

Thats my point, we are designed to not "like" our siblings... If you OK it then eventually that will change and become wide spread... People change over time... cyanidebakesale

Just like gay marriage will turn all the kids gay.

[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]It is psychologically, emotionally, ethically and scientifically wrong to have sexual relations with a close family member who's related. If you want proof, just look at the Habsburg royal family in the 16th century.ihateaynrand

:|

[QUOTE="LJS"] Actually when dealing with psychology...which my post was....normal is very much part of the equation. So your point is moot....but then you weren't interested in the actual discussion were you?ihateaynrand

Actually when dealing with psychology...which my post was....normal is very much part of the equation. So your point is moot....but then you weren't interested in the actual discussion were you?LJS

[QUOTE="ihateaynrand"]

[QUOTE="LJS"] Actually when dealing with psychology...which my post was....normal is very much part of the equation. So your point is moot....but then you weren't interested in the actual discussion were you?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Look....psychological studies have already shown that incestuous relationships cause emotional problems on those involved within the relationship. There is also the issue of true consent since one has the family hierarchy involved, genetically it's a risk, and frankly it's not normal to go from a family relationship to thinking about the individual sexually. In fact, many of the relationships that do exist are just convenience and not the romantic relationship one can find with a stranger of which there are no preconceived ideas. There is no positive reason to allow incest.

LJS9502_basic

But, it isn't your life to try to fix. The idea that we need to use the government to protect people from themselves is a very dangerous one.

Actually the idea is that society can and does provide some social mores. You cannot have a successful society without rules. And since the burden can and often does fall on society to fix the problems then society has a right to enact the rules for being a part of said society. If one does not wish to comply, they are free to leave that society. And you have not yet responded with any positive reasons for the acceptance. The "I want to" argument is not successful.

No positive reason? There is a very clear positive reason, and it's what I've saying this entire time. Liberty.

Plain and simple.

I don't think it's society's job to meddle in the lives of the individuals who make up that society. There should most certainly be rules, but rules based on protecting liberty, not denying it.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

How so? Poor people can and do succeed.....

UltimoIce

Just as deformed people can and do succeed.Their lives are still much harder for people born into a higher social bracket without deformities.

You are comparing poor people to people with legitimate disabilities? Bad form. I grew up without a father in a very poor area, and I found a way to succeed. The only disability most poor people have is something called laziness. Not all men are created equal, but all are born with equal opportunity. Some just have to work harder for it.

But, that's all I'll say on that, because last time I touched on this topic it spawned into a 2 day debate. :)

How is it bad form? The wealthiest of Americans have a much more opportunities than the poorest. I do not see how this is equal opportunity. The hard truth is that each American is NOT born with equal opportunity. A child born in the slums of Baltimore will likely become a product of his environment and eventually become a drug addict. This is statistics I'm talking about here. The child of a wealthy person will attend the best private schools, and recieve the best education and opportunities life has to offer.

[QUOTE="Wilfred_Owen"]

Incest is still the "in" thing on off-topic?

LJS9502_basic

Easier to talk to a sister than a random girl I guess....:?

Let me clarify something, I agree with you that it is not normal. My moral upbringing has taught me that incest is wrong. I'm not arguing what I believe though. I'm arguing the legality of a law denying rights to two consenting adults.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

But, it isn't your life to try to fix. The idea that we need to use the government to protect people from themselves is a very dangerous one.

Franklinstein

Actually the idea is that society can and does provide some social mores. You cannot have a successful society without rules. And since the burden can and often does fall on society to fix the problems then society has a right to enact the rules for being a part of said society. If one does not wish to comply, they are free to leave that society. And you have not yet responded with any positive reasons for the acceptance. The "I want to" argument is not successful.

No positive reason? There is a very clear positive reason, and it's what I've saying this entire time. Liberty.

Plain and simple.

I don't think it's society's job to meddle in the lives of the individuals who make up that society. There should most certainly be rules, but rules based on protecting liberty, not denying it.

[QUOTE="Gaming-Planet"]

Yeah if you want higher chance of getting a deformed baby

Franklinstein

its illegal for reasons regarding genetic stagnation.

but it should be legal i agree

Thessassin

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="ihateaynrand"]Unfortunately for you, your (clumsily expressed, as usual) statement about the normality of incest remains a non-sequitur, no matter what the post's subject. Next, please.

majoras_wrath

In the UK we use this man and his family to ward us off the dangers of inbreeding.

It should stay illegal because.....

You make a good point TC, cant say i have ever thought about it like that.. but i guess it "should" be legal.... not to say it isn't gross imo

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Actually the idea is that society can and does provide some social mores. You cannot have a successful society without rules. And since the burden can and often does fall on society to fix the problems then society has a right to enact the rules for being a part of said society. If one does not wish to comply, they are free to leave that society. And you have not yet responded with any positive reasons for the acceptance. The "I want to" argument is not successful.

LJS9502_basic

No positive reason? There is a very clear positive reason, and it's what I've saying this entire time. Liberty.

Plain and simple.

I don't think it's society's job to meddle in the lives of the individuals who make up that society. There should most certainly be rules, but rules based on protecting liberty, not denying it.

And since the studies done on incest tend to show one person's liberty is taken due to the nature of the familiar relationship...that negates that point. Though in any society....liberty has restrictions.

What you are calling liberty, I call moral upbringing. There is no way to control someone's moral upbringing.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

No positive reason? There is a very clear positive reason, and it's what I've saying this entire time. Liberty.

Plain and simple.

I don't think it's society's job to meddle in the lives of the individuals who make up that society. There should most certainly be rules, but rules based on protecting liberty, not denying it.

Franklinstein

And since the studies done on incest tend to show one person's liberty is taken due to the nature of the familiar relationship...that negates that point. Though in any society....liberty has restrictions.

What you are calling liberty, I call moral upbringing. There is no way to control someone's moral upbringing.

wow ive been gone a while, but it seems like those arguing against making incest legar are the creepiest ones out of the bunch. The arguments im hearing from them is, well if you make it legal then everyone will be doing ti because it will be normal. WTF :?

If some people are doing it with contraceptives then what exactly is the problem??

Take a look at some porn site, the highest viewed and rated videos almost always seem to have incest. That makes it rather obvious that people want to do it so why not allow them? Who cares if that's not the way society works? The same case is with homosexuals as well...

And again "despising" incest is your right but I dont think the rationality behind despising it can be any different than despising "homosexuality"....

Gambler_3

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

And since the studies done on incest tend to show one person's liberty is taken due to the nature of the familiar relationship...that negates that point. Though in any society....liberty has restrictions.

LJS9502_basic

What you are calling liberty, I call moral upbringing. There is no way to control someone's moral upbringing.

You brought up liberty. And as I said if you read the studies you'd see that there are victims....

If you are suggesting that moral upbringing, in a way, denies liberty then I think we are going to go down a path with no easy answers.

If you're saying that a person's liberty is curtailed because they are essentially brainwashed into thinking incest is good, then we should fully address this problem.

If someone's moral upbringing can brainwash them into believing a different set of morals then perhaps we shouldn't allow convicted felons to procreate either, because I'd say that the moral upbringing a child will recieve in a felon's household is probably not what we'd call normal either.

I'm perfectly fine with trying this experiment. It might yield fantastic results.

wow ive been gone a while, but it seems like those arguing against making incest legar are the creepiest ones out of the bunch. The arguments im hearing from them is, well if you make it legal then everyone will be doing ti because it will be normal. WTF :?

Thessassin

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

What you are calling liberty, I call moral upbringing. There is no way to control someone's moral upbringing.

Franklinstein

You brought up liberty. And as I said if you read the studies you'd see that there are victims....

If you are suggesting that moral upbringing, in a way, denies liberty then I think we are going to go down a path with no easy answers.

If you're saying that a person's liberty is curtailed because they are essentially brainwashed into thinking incest is good, then we should fully address this problem.

If someone's moral upbringing can brainwash them into believing a different set of morals then perhaps we shouldn't allow convicted felons to procreate either, because I'd say that the moral upbringing a child will recieve in a felon's household is probably not what we'd call normal either.

I'm perfectly fine with trying this experiment. It might yield fantastic results.

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

If some people are doing it with contraceptives then what exactly is the problem??

Take a look at some porn site, the highest viewed and rated videos almost always seem to have incest. That makes it rather obvious that people want to do it so why not allow them? Who cares if that's not the way society works? The same case is with homosexuals as well...

And again "despising" incest is your right but I dont think the rationality behind despising it can be any different than despising "homosexuality"....

Riverwolf007

Seriously?

:roll:

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

You brought up liberty. And as I said if you read the studies you'd see that there are victims....

LJS9502_basic

If you are suggesting that moral upbringing, in a way, denies liberty then I think we are going to go down a path with no easy answers.

If you're saying that a person's liberty is curtailed because they are essentially brainwashed into thinking incest is good, then we should fully address this problem.

If someone's moral upbringing can brainwash them into believing a different set of morals then perhaps we shouldn't allow convicted felons to procreate either, because I'd say that the moral upbringing a child will recieve in a felon's household is probably not what we'd call normal either.

I'm perfectly fine with trying this experiment. It might yield fantastic results.

Well no I meant that some involved in incest were victims. Having a family relationship may make them get involved were they would not with someone not related to them. Though onto your felon comment.....isn't it likely that a felon would like some better for their child then to follow them down that path?

But it's still their choice, no one is forcing them to commit to an incestuous relationship. I know that if my sister came up to me and asked me to be in a relationship with her, I'd say no. Nothing would change my mind of that. I'm not vindicating rape here. Only willing participants of a certain consenting age.

Point taken on the felon argument. Give me a little while, and I'll think of a different example, if I can.

When Christians/Conservatives tell me

"if we allow gay marriage, we might start allowing incestuous and polygamous marriages"

I tell them

"You know what? you are actually right."

I openly support the rights of consenting adults to form marital contracts freely among one another. Once you start respecting other people, as individuals capable of making their own decisions, I think this kind of tolerance is an inevitable conclusion. I dont find it to be a negative thing at all.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]

If some people are doing it with contraceptives then what exactly is the problem??

Take a look at some porn site, the highest viewed and rated videos almost always seem to have incest. That makes it rather obvious that people want to do it so why not allow them? Who cares if that's not the way society works? The same case is with homosexuals as well...

And again "despising" incest is your right but I dont think the rationality behind despising it can be any different than despising "homosexuality"....

TaCoDuDe

Seriously?

:roll:

But it's still their choice, no one is forcing them to commit to an incestuous relationship. I know that if my sister came up to me and asked me to be in a relationship with her, I'd say no. Nothing would change my mind of that. I'm not vindicating rape here. Only willing participants of a certain consenting age.

Point taken on the felon argument. Give me a little while, and I'll think of a different example, if I can.

Franklinstein

Objectively speaking, I see no problem with family members having sex, as long as they are the proper age and willing.

now subjectively, I find the thought of it to be disgusting, so i treat this the same way as gay sex: I don't want to see it and I dont want to hear about it, but if people want to do it, I couldn't care less.. more power to 'em