SF Giants wins 2nd World Series in 3 years, sweeps Detroit Tigers. Sandoval MVP.

Ichiro himself is a .297/.314/.402 hitter away from Safeco this year. Hardly amazing, but when you consider what he'll have around him, you'd have to believe he'd at at worst hit about what he is currently doing on the road through the rest of the season.

Boston_Boyy

Marlins seem pretty intent on trading Hanley and Bell (shocking). We'll get peanuts for Bell, but if we can package him with Hanley and perhaps some cash then we'll probably get a solid package.

If the Marlins are smart with their trades and in FA next year, we could still compete in 2013. We do have a solid core of players.

[QUOTE="JML897"]

The last two and a half seasons Ichiro has had a worse OPS+, which is park and league-adjusted, than Vernon Wells. He's nowhere near as good as he used to be.

TonyDanzaFan

You said "You're seriously underestimating how bad Safeco has been to hitters" but then I bring out a stat that shows even if you use a park-adjusted stat he's been hitting worse than an average player over the last couple years. No need to be a dick.

If the Red Sox could get rid of Lester or Beckett I would be happy.

Marlins seem pretty intent on trading Hanley and Bell (shocking). We'll get peanuts for Bell, but if we can package him with Hanley and perhaps some cash then we'll probably get a solid package.

If the Marlins are smart with their trades and in FA next year, we could still compete in 2013. We do have a solid core of players.

yokofox33

Wandy Rodriguez to the Pirates.

Speaking of Hanley, he's be traded to the Dodgers along with Choate for Eovaldi and a minor leaguer.

Speaking of Hanley, he's be traded to the Dodgers along with Choate for Eovaldi and a minor leaguer.

JohnBean42

Not a good return at all. The only shining light is Hanley's contract is off the books and we can spend dollars on big bats in the offseason.

Marlins are still depressing though.

looks like the Dempster deal is in danger thankfully..... Side topic: People that commented on the deal are idiots to think the Braves "fleeced" the Cubs in this tradeRing_of_fire

It wasn't a fleecing by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm a Braves fan. I'd rather keep Delgado rather than ship him off for a likely rental. The deal falling through is a positive rather than a negative.

[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"]looks like the Dempster deal is in danger thankfully..... Side topic: People that commented on the deal are idiots to think the Braves "fleeced" the Cubs in this tradeCycleOfViolence

It wasn't a fleecing by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm a Braves fan. I'd rather keep Delgado rather than ship him off for a likely rental. The deal falling through is a positive rather than a negative.

Perhaps I am undervaluing Dempster, and overvaluing Delgado. I just don't think Dempster will help us that much getting to the playoffs

[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"]looks like the Dempster deal is in danger thankfully..... Side topic: People that commented on the deal are idiots to think the Braves "fleeced" the Cubs in this tradeRing_of_fire

It wasn't a fleecing by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm a Braves fan. I'd rather keep Delgado rather than ship him off for a likely rental. The deal falling through is a positive rather than a negative.

Perhaps I am undervaluing Dempster, and overvaluing Delgado. I just don't think Dempster will help us that much getting to the playoffs

My mistake, I misread your initial post.

[QUOTE="Ring_of_fire"]

[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

It wasn't a fleecing by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm a Braves fan. I'd rather keep Delgado rather than ship him off for a likely rental. The deal falling through is a positive rather than a negative.

CycleOfViolence

Perhaps I am undervaluing Dempster, and overvaluing Delgado. I just don't think Dempster will help us that much getting to the playoffs

My mistake, I misread your initial post.

I'd rather the Braves stand put than to overpay for pitchers who may not help the Braves this year. I've heard Grienke mentioned, but in no way should the Braves trade Teheran Delgado AND another top 50 prospect for someone the Braves can try to sign this offseason. I may consider one of Teheran or Delgado if Grienke signs an extension, though

You guys think it was a good move for the Phillies to tie up 144 mil on Hamels? I think he'll continue to play pretty well, but man, this will make it even harder for the Phils to rebuild as they continue to age. And as an aside, the Braves would've gotten the better end of the Dempster deal..... for about two months. And then with Dempster's contract year out of the way (though it's obvious he wouldn't resign with the Braves anyway), we'd all be dying to have Delgado back. He's 22 with a career 3.98 ERA. Who in their right mind would give that up for... anybody? He's, in all likelihood, going to be a force in the league.GamerForca

The Phils over payed, but the most pressing problem are all the old guys with big money not producing: Utley, Rollins, Lee. They won 102 games last season, lets not panic. Master_Live

Look at Lee's contract lol, he better get back on track.

I'm a pissed off Marlins fan.

I loved Hanley Ramirez. He was a headcase but he's 2 years removed from ELITE status. I hate all these media dooks calling Hanley a cancer. The real cancer is the idiot front office who crippled the franchise with terrible drafting and the Miguel Cabrera trade.

Wow. Ricky Romero just was flat out awful tonight, booed off the field.

I don't know many AL teams with more rotation questions for the rest of this year, and next year, than us. Maybe Boston.

EDIT: And now JP Arencibia is out for 6 weeks. And Travis d'Arneud is out for the year. F*ck.

Too much money for too many years. You don't give rich long term contracts to pitchers. You just don't do it.

I'm a pissed off Marlins fan.

I loved Hanley Ramirez. He was a headcase but he's 2 years removed from ELITE status. I hate all these media dooks calling Hanley a cancer. The real cancer is the idiot front office who crippled the franchise with terrible drafting and the Miguel Cabrera trade.

yokofox33

I'd be curious to hear your take as a Marlins fan on this article: Link.

TLDR version: Jeff Passan argues that the modern Marlins are no different from the old, even with the new stadium. The same pattern exists now as it did in the mid 90's: pretend to be a big spender just long enough to generate interest, before jumping into fire-sale mode so Jeffrey Loria can maximize his bottom line that fiscal year.

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

I'm a pissed off Marlins fan.

I loved Hanley Ramirez. He was a headcase but he's 2 years removed from ELITE status. I hate all these media dooks calling Hanley a cancer. The real cancer is the idiot front office who crippled the franchise with terrible drafting and the Miguel Cabrera trade.

Oleg_Huzwog

I'd be curious to hear your take as a Marlins fan on this article: Link.

TLDR version: Jeff Passan argues that the modern Marlins are no different from the old, even with the new stadium. The same pattern exists now as it did in the mid 90's: pretend to be a big spender just long enough to generate interest, before jumping into fire-sale mode so Jeffrey Loria can maximize his bottom line that fiscal year.

Yahoo news is a terrible news outlet, so I'm not surprised Passan writes for them. He's always had nasty things to say about the Marlins. Jeffrey Loria and David Samson are sort of sleazeballs, but not to the point of being crooks. They built a stadium, spent money, and it didn't work. Are they supposed to keep putting out overpaid players who don't perform? That's baseball hell. They sold some pieces, they didn't have a firesale. And the first firesale in 97-98 wasn't even Loria, so I don't know why media guys think Loria is to blame for their sell off of players.

Greinke to Angels

That Angels staff is filthy.

Greinke to Angels

That Angels staff is filthy.

Master_Live

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]

Greinke to Angels

That Angels staff is filthy.

TonyDanzaFan

I think they want to keep JJ, but obviously would move him if they were offered the farm for him. I personally want to keep him since our starting rotation will most likely be very young next year. At the same time we have no 3rd baseman, are very thin in the OF, and our SP is shaky and young. Wouldn't be the worst idea to trade him if we do indeed get our asking price.

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]

Greinke to Angels

That Angels staff is filthy.

yokofox33

I think they want to keep JJ, but obviously would move him if they were offered the farm for him. I personally want to keep him since our starting rotation will most likely be very young next year. At the same time we have no 3rd baseman, are very thin in the OF, and our SP is shaky and young. Wouldn't be the worst idea to trade him if we do indeed get our asking price.

Man the Red Sox organization is a joke. At least show up against the Yankees.

I'm impressed with the Jays. Have 4 regulars out of the lineup, and manage to put up 8 runs. Villenueva has stepped in nicely, with another solid outting..even if we really aren't in it, the team never backs down. No one woulda blamed them for losing a few after losing 16-0, but nope.

I'm not impressed with fans who complain we didn't get Greinke. Why would we? I'm not giving up out 2nd, 4th and 8th ranked prospect for a 2 month rental, cause I know he won't sign here. And for what? A slim chance at the 2nd wild card? No thanks.

I'd rather trade for one of the A's young starters, or one of their injured guys, McCarthy or Anderson.

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"] Holy crap. I guess this is good for Greinke too, since he won't have to be the ace of the staff. The Marlins asking price for Josh Johnson is insane. The guy is almost never healthy, and they want a Teixeira package for him. Good luck with that, Miami. TonyDanzaFan

I think they want to keep JJ, but obviously would move him if they were offered the farm for him. I personally want to keep him since our starting rotation will most likely be very young next year. At the same time we have no 3rd baseman, are very thin in the OF, and our SP is shaky and young. Wouldn't be the worst idea to trade him if we do indeed get our asking price.

Oh, they are blowing it up, but nobody wants players like Bell, Nolasco, Buck, etc. It just sucks that whenever the Marlins trade a player it automatically becomes a firesale. The core of Stanton, Reyes, Bonifacio, Buehrle, Cishek, and possily JJ is still there. 2014 is the earliest we can compete as that's when our guys from the minors are coming up.

I do want that dook Logan Morrison off the team though. Apparently Hanley is a clubhouse cancer, but a twitter troll who posts pics of a mother breast-feeding and then talks crap about her is perfectly fine.

I'm impressed with the Jays. Have 4 regulars out of the lineup, and manage to put up 8 runs. Villenueva has stepped in nicely, with another solid outting..even if we really aren't in it, the team never backs down. No one woulda blamed them for losing a few after losing 16-0, but nope.

I'm not impressed with fans who complain we didn't get Greinke. Why would we? I'm not giving up out 2nd, 4th and 8th ranked prospect for a 2 month rental, cause I know he won't sign here. And for what? A slim chance at the 2nd wild card? No thanks.

I'd rather trade for one of the A's young starters, or one of their injured guys, McCarthy or Anderson.

JohnBean42

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"][QUOTE="yokofox33"]

I think they want to keep JJ, but obviously would move him if they were offered the farm for him. I personally want to keep him since our starting rotation will most likely be very young next year. At the same time we have no 3rd baseman, are very thin in the OF, and our SP is shaky and young. Wouldn't be the worst idea to trade him if we do indeed get our asking price.

yokofox33

Oh, they are blowing it up, but nobody wants players like Bell, Nolasco, Buck, etc. It just sucks that whenever the Marlins trade a player it automatically becomes a firesale. The core of Stanton, Reyes, Bonifacio, Buehrle, Cishek, and possily JJ is still there. 2014 is the earliest we can compete as that's when our guys from the minors are coming up.

I do want that dook Logan Morrison off the team though. Apparently Hanley is a clubhouse cancer, but a twitter troll who posts pics of a mother breast-feeding and then talks crap about her is perfectly fine.

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

I'm impressed with the Jays. Have 4 regulars out of the lineup, and manage to put up 8 runs. Villenueva has stepped in nicely, with another solid outting..even if we really aren't in it, the team never backs down. No one woulda blamed them for losing a few after losing 16-0, but nope.

I'm not impressed with fans who complain we didn't get Greinke. Why would we? I'm not giving up out 2nd, 4th and 8th ranked prospect for a 2 month rental, cause I know he won't sign here. And for what? A slim chance at the 2nd wild card? No thanks.

I'd rather trade for one of the A's young starters, or one of their injured guys, McCarthy or Anderson.

TonyDanzaFan

And the A's have shown to trade established starters to get younger or to get help in something they need. So Anderson or McCarthy being traded is a possibility..maybe not this deadline though.

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"]

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

I'm impressed with the Jays. Have 4 regulars out of the lineup, and manage to put up 8 runs. Villenueva has stepped in nicely, with another solid outting..even if we really aren't in it, the team never backs down. No one woulda blamed them for losing a few after losing 16-0, but nope.

I'm not impressed with fans who complain we didn't get Greinke. Why would we? I'm not giving up out 2nd, 4th and 8th ranked prospect for a 2 month rental, cause I know he won't sign here. And for what? A slim chance at the 2nd wild card? No thanks.

I'd rather trade for one of the A's young starters, or one of their injured guys, McCarthy or Anderson.

JohnBean42

And the A's have shown to trade established starters to get younger or to get help in something they need. So Anderson or McCarthy being traded is a possibility..maybe not this deadline though.

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"] They should trade him because that team is a disaster right now. They looked like the team to beat at the end of may, and then they just fell apart. I guess it's Stanton or bust, because when he was on fire, so were the marlins. They need to just blow up the team completely and start from scratch, with the exception of Stanton. But even his knee problems are concerning. theone86

Oh, they are blowing it up, but nobody wants players like Bell, Nolasco, Buck, etc. It just sucks that whenever the Marlins trade a player it automatically becomes a firesale. The core of Stanton, Reyes, Bonifacio, Buehrle, Cishek, and possily JJ is still there. 2014 is the earliest we can compete as that's when our guys from the minors are coming up.

I do want that dook Logan Morrison off the team though. Apparently Hanley is a clubhouse cancer, but a twitter troll who posts pics of a mother breast-feeding and then talks crap about her is perfectly fine.

He's got 3 more years on his contract, and even at his age he's still pitching very well. He'll survive in the NL. He'll be a fixture in the rotation even if we're not building around him.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

Oh, they are blowing it up, but nobody wants players like Bell, Nolasco, Buck, etc. It just sucks that whenever the Marlins trade a player it automatically becomes a firesale. The core of Stanton, Reyes, Bonifacio, Buehrle, Cishek, and possily JJ is still there. 2014 is the earliest we can compete as that's when our guys from the minors are coming up.

I do want that dook Logan Morrison off the team though. Apparently Hanley is a clubhouse cancer, but a twitter troll who posts pics of a mother breast-feeding and then talks crap about her is perfectly fine.

yokofox33

He's got 3 more years on his contract, and even at his age he's still pitching very well. He'll survive in the NL. He'll be a fixture in the rotation even if we're not building around him.

He's still good, no doubt, but I don't think he can be a fixture past that contract (I'm actually thinking he'll start to decline more before he reaches the end of it). He can be good, not a fixture. If you want to build around him the window is closing, I don't think you can do it by rebuilding. If he doesn't win in the next two years he's not going to be a feature pitcher anymore. If you're going to surrond him with talent right now then he can be part of a winning team, if you're waiting on prospects then I think it's better to just see what you can get for him in a trade.

[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]

[QUOTE="TonyDanzaFan"]As young starters? As in Parker and Milone? I don't think even the A's would trade them. And because he is injured, I don't think McCarthy will be traded. And you're right, Greinke to the jatys would have made no sense.

TonyDanzaFan

And the A's have shown to trade established starters to get younger or to get help in something they need. So Anderson or McCarthy being traded is a possibility..maybe not this deadline though.

And ya, Parker is probably untouchable.

[QUOTE="yokofox33"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]Buehrle is on the downside of his career, there's no time to be talking about building around him.

theone86

He's got 3 more years on his contract, and even at his age he's still pitching very well. He'll survive in the NL. He'll be a fixture in the rotation even if we're not building around him.

He's still good, no doubt, but I don't think he can be a fixture past that contract (I'm actually thinking he'll start to decline more before he reaches the end of it). He can be good, not a fixture. If you want to build around him the window is closing, I don't think you can do it by rebuilding. If he doesn't win in the next two years he's not going to be a feature pitcher anymore. If you're going to surrond him with talent right now then he can be part of a winning team, if you're waiting on prospects then I think it's better to just see what you can get for him in a trade.

The thing is though that Buehrle is the type of pitcher who doesn't need to be overpowering. It's not like he's throwing 95 heat. His deception will make him useful for the remainder of that contract. A contract that no one wants because it's backloaded. Even if he declines it's not going to be by much, and he'll still have a year or two on the contract when we start competing again.

The Marlins could potentially compete next year if some of the younger guys pan out and we complement it with some FA pickups. I don't think they will, but it is possible.

Sounded like Pence was going to the Giants, but the SFG VP said there was "no truth to the rumor".