BioWare Employee Jennifer Hepler Verbally Harassed, Abused and Threatened

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Moo-Moo-Milk"]How a bunch of people can waste insane amounts of dedication to locate, threaten, and discredit another I will never know..... Moriarity_

You underestimate how pathetic human beings, especially gamers, can be. Just look at some of the people in this thread, truly pathetic excuses for human beings.

Actually, I'm a very optimistic person, but I'm also a realist.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Moo-Moo-Milk"]How a bunch of people can waste insane amounts of dedication to locate, threaten, and discredit another I will never know..... Moriarity_

You underestimate how pathetic human beings, especially gamers, can be. Just look at some of the people in this thread, truly pathetic excuses for human beings.

Hey! That's Gandhi you just criticized!

pretty sure it's a sin.

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Wow...really...guess you're one of the many who sent death threats to her.

Goyoshi12

That's just being observant, how did he send death threats?

That is an observation, indeed! I know he didn't make death threats (or DID he? :o) but it just seems sick to me to see people look at the women and just be disgusted soley on looks!

I mean, this women got slammed hard with hatred and death threats and we all don't evne care just based on her looks? The shallowness we exude is just downright diabolicle.

Sorry for being human.

Over a **** story in a game?

[QUOTE="Moo-Moo-Milk"]How a bunch of people can waste insane amounts of dedication to locate, threaten, and discredit another I will never know..... arkephonic

You underestimate how pathetic human beings, especially gamers, can be. Just look at some of the people in this thread, truly pathetic excuses for human beings.

If you don't have anything to stand up for you're the pathetic one here.

Well...at least she wasnt sexually harrased. But then again that should be the least of her problems.Chrome-

Word :lol:

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

musalala

CliffyB and David Jaffe were getting death threats to their home address?

If they were, then it should be taken seriously. I am a guy, and I'm far from a woman's rights activist or anything like that, but I think it is to be taken a bit more seriously when it is having to do with a female. Regardless of how ugly everyone thinks she is, that is irrelevant. As a man, I can defend myself, and I can kick someone's ass if they come at me. With women, they are more vulnerable. That's just the way it is.

why are you guys defending that person? she hates gaimz and makes crap stories she shud get fired

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY1swgSzd_o&feature=related

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

arkephonic

CliffyB and David Jaffe were getting death threats to their home address?

If they were, then it should be taken seriously. I am a guy, and I'm far from a woman's rights activist or anything like that, but I think it is to be taken a bit more seriously when it is having to do with a female. Regardless of how ugly everyone thinks she is, that is irrelevant. As a man, I can defend myself, and I can kick someone's ass if they come at me. With women, they are more vulnerable. That's just the way it is.

I am pretty sure they are but a) They don"t take too seriously B) They don"t make a big deal of it

If she had just ignored this BS from the rabid fanbase (Like most sensible people) she wouldn"t have been in this mess, but she instead made a couple of inflmmatory comments that started the firestorm she is currently in.My point is that many many people get called racist, homophobic terms on the internet to know end, The squareenix CEO recieved death threats in Japan because he "broke" his promise and released FFXIII on the xbox 360 did anyone make a big deal of this no? Why exactly is HER case special, we are making a mountain out of a mole hill over something that happens everyday on the internet.

My advise to her just ignore the idiots ( which is what she should have done in the first place)

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

musalala

CliffyB and David Jaffe were getting death threats to their home address?

If they were, then it should be taken seriously. I am a guy, and I'm far from a woman's rights activist or anything like that, but I think it is to be taken a bit more seriously when it is having to do with a female. Regardless of how ugly everyone thinks she is, that is irrelevant. As a man, I can defend myself, and I can kick someone's ass if they come at me. With women, they are more vulnerable. That's just the way it is.

I am pretty sure they are but a) They don"t take too seriously B) They don"t make a big deal of it

If she had just ignored this BS from the rabid fanbase (Like most sensible people) she wouldn"t have been in this mess, but she instead made a couple of inflmmatory comments that started the firestorm she is currently in.My point is that many many people get called racist, homophobic terms on the internet to know end, The squareenix CEO recieved death threats in Japan because he "broke" his promise and released FFXIII on the xbox 360 did anyone make a big deal of this no? Why exactly is HER case special, we are making a mountain out of a mole hill over something that happens everyday on the internet.

My advise to her just ignore the idiots ( which is what she should have done in the first place)

Well obviously she should not feed the trolls, dumb idea. I also don't understand why when a person calls out a Gamespot reviewer on here in a thread they make, like, "So and so rated Skyward Sword a 7.5 blah blah", and then the reviewer actually comes into the thread to defend themselves.

It's like, what is the point? Why are they even entering the thread? They're just fueling the fire.

My main thought on this whole thing is that people take gaming way too seriously. Mass Effect 3 could get cancelled and I wouldn't even give a sh*t. Some person that works there just gives their opinion on something? No one should even give a sh*t. It's just video games, they aren't that big of a deal. They are entertainment. It's not like it is even important.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

musalala

CliffyB and David Jaffe were getting death threats to their home address?

If they were, then it should be taken seriously. I am a guy, and I'm far from a woman's rights activist or anything like that, but I think it is to be taken a bit more seriously when it is having to do with a female. Regardless of how ugly everyone thinks she is, that is irrelevant. As a man, I can defend myself, and I can kick someone's ass if they come at me. With women, they are more vulnerable. That's just the way it is.

I am pretty sure they are but a) They don"t take too seriously B) They don"t make a big deal of it

If she had just ignored this BS from the rabid fanbase (Like most sensible people) she wouldn"t have been in this mess, but she instead made a couple of inflmmatory comments that started the firestorm she is currently in.My point is that many many people get called racist, homophobic terms on the internet to know end, The squareenix CEO recieved death threats in Japan because he "broke" his promise and released FFXIII on the xbox 360 did anyone make a big deal of this no? Why exactly is HER case special, we are making a mountain out of a mole hill over something that happens everyday on the internet.

My advise to her just ignore the idiots ( which is what she should have done in the first place)

http://www.themarysue.com/inclusion-what-jennifer-heplers-story-is-all-about/

So forgive me if this has been posted before but in a nut shell a Bio-ware writer who has written a lot of content for DAO, SWTOR and other games, had an interview 5 years ago and how she feels that story to her is more important than game play. Recently some gamers took screenshots of those things and Photoshopped them next to a picture of that person, where her quotes were butchered and completely taken out of context next thing you know.

Go Go Bio-Drone Rangers


So anyways long story short the Bio-drones went off like a fuse calling the person "the cancer that is killing Bioware." That they hope she gets cancer, thats she dies in a fire on top of a mountain of other things. Than she made the grave mistake of fighting back and using "Common Sense" and....

Mega Thunder Bio-Drone Zord GO!

And the harassment went as far as to actually calling her house and leaving death threats which also lead to her closing down her twitter account. Well here's one link to the story they're probably more.

go go bio-drone rangers...........

Shielder7

Bioware - Story is more important than gameplay

Gamer - no, gameplay is more important

Bioware - releases ME3 demo

Gamers - This is crap, ts an action game now ( its focused on gameplay ). ME1 is the best becuz its focused on story.

LMAO. so what do you guys want? you kids are hipocrits. You say gameplay is more important than story, so Bioware make ME3s gameplay a big focus & now you have gamers complaining about it. You just cant win.

[QUOTE="Shielder7"]

http://www.themarysue.com/inclusion-what-jennifer-heplers-story-is-all-about/

So forgive me if this has been posted before but in a nut shell a Bio-ware writer who has written a lot of content for DAO, SWTOR and other games, had an interview 5 years ago and how she feels that story to her is more important than game play. Recently some gamers took screenshots of those things and Photoshopped them next to a picture of that person, where her quotes were butchered and completely taken out of context next thing you know.

Go Go Bio-Drone Rangers


So anyways long story short the Bio-drones went off like a fuse calling the person "the cancer that is killing Bioware." That they hope she gets cancer, thats she dies in a fire on top of a mountain of other things. Than she made the grave mistake of fighting back and using "Common Sense" and....

Mega Thunder Bio-Drone Zord GO!

And the harassment went as far as to actually calling her house and leaving death threats which also lead to her closing down her twitter account. Well here's one link to the story they're probably more.

go go bio-drone rangers...........

AzelKosMos

Same here. I'm even ashamed to be a gamer. It's disturbing to be associated with these people. I played my first video game today in 3 months, and after 20 minutes, I was bored to tears, so I'm on the right track.

What would I have to lose by quitting video games? What would I be missing out on, really?

Nothing. Gamers don't want to admit it, but video gaming is just a waste of time. Any entertainment is a waste of time, but I'd say reading a book is better.

Or what about exercising / working out or video games? Working out is better.

What about going out with friends and socializing? Better than video games.

I know there are gamers out there who are good people, but hanging out on sites like this one and reading how seriously lots of people take games makes it seem a lot worse.

What would I have to lose by quitting video games? What would I be missing out on, really?

Nothing. Gamers don't want to admit it, but video gaming is just a waste of time. Any entertainment is a waste of time, but I'd say reading a book is better.

Or what about exercising / working out or video games? Working out is better.

What about going out with friends and socializing? Better than video games.

I know there are gamers out there who are good people, but hanging out on sites like this one and reading how seriously lots of people take games makes it seem a lot worse.

arkephonic

Gaming is not a waste of time. Its a hobby, people enjoy it. By saying gaming is a waste of time you could say any & everything is a waste of time.

Going out & scoializing would be considered a waste of time, having sex would be considered a waste of time ( i enjoy both of these things ), anything that isnt productive like working your job, scavenging for items ( shopping ) to survive, it would be considered a waste of time.

Gaming is just another activity that we as humans enjoy. I dont consider socializing, sex or games to be a waste of time. I enjoy it all.

Oh & BTW i agree with being ashamed to be a gamer as well. Gamers act like a bunch of bratty, little, self centered, narcistic, rotten , little school girls. Some of them ar really bad human beings. It is very pathetic. At least there are some of us that aren't in that category

you kids are hipocrits. brucecambell

If you're gonna call other people "kids" at least spell "hypocrites" right. It makes one question your own age.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

What would I have to lose by quitting video games? What would I be missing out on, really?

Nothing. Gamers don't want to admit it, but video gaming is just a waste of time. Any entertainment is a waste of time, but I'd say reading a book is better.

Or what about exercising / working out or video games? Working out is better.

What about going out with friends and socializing? Better than video games.

I know there are gamers out there who are good people, but hanging out on sites like this one and reading how seriously lots of people take games makes it seem a lot worse.

brucecambell

Gaming is not a waste of time. Its a hobby, people enjoy it. By saying gaming is a waste of time you could say any & everything is a waste of time.

Going out & scoializing would be considered a waste of time, having sex would be considered a waste of time ( i enjoy both of these things ), anything that isnt productive like working your job, scavenging for items ( shopping ) to survive, it would be considered a waste of time.

Gaming is just another activity that we as humans enjoy. I dont consider socializing, sex or games to be a waste of time. I enjoy it all.

Oh & BTW i agree with being ashamed to be a gamer as well. Gamers act like a bunch of bratty, little, self centered, narcistic, rotten , little school girls. Some of them ar really bad human beings. It is very pathetic. At least there are some of us that aren't in that category

That's what I mean. It's like a spoiler in a video game. You don't want to accidently read a spoiler, because then it detracts from your desire to play the game. Or when you research a game so much, watch videos, look at screen shots, read reviews, read previews, it takes away from the experience when you actually play the game.

Sometimes, some things are better off left unread, not seen.

I kinda wish I didn't just see how damn pathetic a lot of gamers are. A lot of people here on the Gamespot forums are bad, but the Youtube comments make them look great. It makes me not want to be a part of the gaming community. It makes me not want to play online because I would be somehow involved with this trash.

I know what you're saying, any hobby can be considered a waste of time, and I even said that myself before you said it. It's just that I consider a plethora of hobbies more constructive than video games.

What do video games teach these kids? How to be a sore loser? How to blame everything on other people? How to be self centered little school girls like you said? Oh yeah, great, they're getting hand eye coordination, but the bad far outweighs the good.

Reading a book would be 100 times more productive. Sex is much healthier and better for you than video games. Working out and maintaining an in shape and healthy body is way more productive than playing video games. Have you seen how out of shape some gamers are? Hell, they don't even have proper hygiene. Getting out and socializing with people in the real world is infinitely more valuable than socializing behind a TV set or a monitor with a headset on, talking to complete strangers, having conversations that consist of why they're so 1337 and how the only reason they lost was because of hacks, glitches, exploits, team balancing.

Gamers make me sick to my stomach.

the idiots doing this definately need to get a grip and possibly be sectioned under mental health laws.

Same here. I'm even ashamed to be a gamer. It's disturbing to be associated with these people. I played my first video game today in 3 months, and after 20 minutes, I was bored to tears, so I'm on the right track.

What would I have to lose by quitting video games? What would I be missing out on, really?

Nothing. Gamers don't want to admit it, but video gaming is just a waste of time. Any entertainment is a waste of time, but I'd say reading a book is better.

Or what about exercising / working out or video games? Working out is better.

What about going out with friends and socializing? Better than video games.

I know there are gamers out there who are good people, but hanging out on sites like this one and reading how seriously lots of people take games makes it seem a lot worse.

arkephonic

You're afraid of prejudices for a hobby of yours, you compare a mental activity with working out and socializing, and also say that a mental activity is in your opinion worse...

Redneck much?

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Are people aware that she partially brought this on herself some of the statements she made were very confrontational and thast putting it mildly, Secondly how come noone comes to CliffyB"S or David Jaffe"s defence when they get "harrased"? sexism much?

So someone got flamed on the internet and called names WOW thats soooo shocking its not like that ever happens

musalala

CliffyB and David Jaffe were getting death threats to their home address?

If they were, then it should be taken seriously. I am a guy, and I'm far from a woman's rights activist or anything like that, but I think it is to be taken a bit more seriously when it is having to do with a female. Regardless of how ugly everyone thinks she is, that is irrelevant. As a man, I can defend myself, and I can kick someone's ass if they come at me. With women, they are more vulnerable. That's just the way it is.

I am pretty sure they are but a) They don"t take too seriously B) They don"t make a big deal of it

If she had just ignored this BS from the rabid fanbase (Like most sensible people) she wouldn"t have been in this mess, but she instead made a couple of inflmmatory comments that started the firestorm she is currently in.My point is that many many people get called racist, homophobic terms on the internet to know end, The squareenix CEO recieved death threats in Japan because he "broke" his promise and released FFXIII on the xbox 360 did anyone make a big deal of this no? Why exactly is HER case special, we are making a mountain out of a mole hill over something that happens everyday on the internet.

My advise to her just ignore the idiots ( which is what she should have done in the first place)

lol a tthis thread and everyone trying to justify harassment.

lol a tthis thread and everyone trying to justify harassment.

dreman999

Just shows how dumb some folks are on here.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

lol a tthis thread and everyone trying to justify harassment.

razgriz_101

Just shows how dumb some folks are on here.

How is it Harassement when she is partially fueling the fire? if she had kept quiet and ignored it it would have died down, I gave the example of the CEO of SE reciving death threats from Japanses fans who were unhappy about FFXIII being released on xbox 360 in Japan. Why didnt people make a big deal of it.

My point is this she is NOT the frist person to go through this, WHY is her case so special, Its kind of hard to feel sorry for someone who claims people are jealous of her coz she has avagina and works in the games indsutry DAFAQ? what exactly was she expecting to happen after saying such things, That is the very defineition of feedingthe trolls she should have just kept quite.

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

lol a tthis thread and everyone trying to justify harassment.

musalala

Just shows how dumb some folks are on here.

How is it Harassement when she is partially fueling the fire? if she had kept quiet and ignored it it would have died down, I gave the example of the CEO of SE reciving death threats from Japanses fans who were unhappy about FFXIII being released on xbox 360 in Japan. Why didnt people make a big deal of it.

My point is this she is NOT the frist person to go through this, WHY is her case so special, Its kind of hard to feel sorry for someone who claims people are jealous of her coz she has avagina and works in the games indsutry DAFAQ? what exactly was she expecting to happen after saying such things, That is the very defineition of feedingthe trolls she should have just kept quite.

still the reaction from the wide majoirty of gamers is unacceptable, even hearing that some have sent death threats shows how goddamn immature they are.

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

[QUOTE="ReadingRainbow4"]

That's just being observant, how did he send death threats?

SW__Troll

That is an observation, indeed! I know he didn't make death threats (or DID he? :o) but it just seems sick to me to see people look at the women and just be disgusted soley on looks!

I mean, this women got slammed hard with hatred and death threats and we all don't evne care just based on her looks? The shallowness we exude is just downright diabolicle.

Sorry for being human.

That's your exscuse? That you're a human being? So...a human being's nature is to hate a person on sight just soley based on looks? Wow....how @#$%ing shallow can one get....seriously, how?

How is this relevant to SW? :?LastRambo341

This

Also, lol at the e-drama

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

lol a tthis thread and everyone trying to justify harassment.

musalala

Just shows how dumb some folks are on here.

How is it Harassement when she is partially fueling the fire? if she had kept quiet and ignored it it would have died down, I gave the example of the CEO of SE reciving death threats from Japanses fans who were unhappy about FFXIII being released on xbox 360 in Japan. Why didnt people make a big deal of it.

My point is this she is NOT the frist person to go through this, WHY is her case so special, Its kind of hard to feel sorry for someone who claims people are jealous of her coz she has avagina and works in the games indsutry DAFAQ? what exactly was she expecting to happen after saying such things, That is the very defineition of feedingthe trolls she should have just kept quite.

Hmmm, sounds like the commie Occupy crowd are also crazy VG fanatics a well. :twisted:

Such nonsense, I mean, really. :?

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"]How is this relevant to SW? :?Sagem28

This

Also, lol at the e-drama

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

Just shows how dumb some folks are on here.

dreman999

How is it Harassement when she is partially fueling the fire? if she had kept quiet and ignored it it would have died down, I gave the example of the CEO of SE reciving death threats from Japanses fans who were unhappy about FFXIII being released on xbox 360 in Japan. Why didnt people make a big deal of it.

My point is this she is NOT the frist person to go through this, WHY is her case so special, Its kind of hard to feel sorry for someone who claims people are jealous of her coz she has avagina and works in the games indsutry DAFAQ? what exactly was she expecting to happen after saying such things, That is the very defineition of feedingthe trolls she should have just kept quite.

did you even read what I said ..The CEO of SE got death threats as well also she feed these trolls .....Its not like she:P... :lol:Oh w8 its you Dreman999 how foolish of me to argue against you regarding anything concerning Bioware my deepest apologies carry on old chap :cool:

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="musalala"]

How is it Harassement when she is partially fueling the fire? if she had kept quiet and ignored it it would have died down, I gave the example of the CEO of SE reciving death threats from Japanses fans who were unhappy about FFXIII being released on xbox 360 in Japan. Why didnt people make a big deal of it.

My point is this she is NOT the frist person to go through this, WHY is her case so special, Its kind of hard to feel sorry for someone who claims people are jealous of her coz she has avagina and works in the games indsutry DAFAQ? what exactly was she expecting to happen after saying such things, That is the very defineition of feedingthe trolls she should have just kept quite.

musalala

did you even read what I said ..The CEO of SE got death threats as well also she feed these trolls .....Its not like she:P... :lol:Oh w8 its you Dreman999 how foolish of me to argue against you regarding anything concerning Bioware my deepest apologies carry on old chap :cool:

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] Right, sending hate mail, death threats via phone, hounding her on facebook and twitter is not harassment. Also, if you were her shoes, you would never tell a person who does all this to you to stuff it, right?dreman999

did you even read what I said ..The CEO of SE got death threats as well also she feed these trolls .....Its not like she:P... :lol:Oh w8 its you Dreman999 how foolish of me to argue against you regarding anything concerning Bioware my deepest apologies carry on old chap :cool:

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

did you even read what I said ..The CEO of SE got death threats as well also she feed these trolls .....Its not like she:P... :lol:Oh w8 its you Dreman999 how foolish of me to argue against you regarding anything concerning Bioware my deepest apologies carry on old chap :cool:

LastRambo341

So....we shouldn't try and be decent? We should all just bang our heads against the keyboard spewing ridiculous crap every hour on the hour 24/7?

Lovely....

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

did you even read what I said ..The CEO of SE got death threats as well also she feed these trolls .....Its not like she:P... :lol:Oh w8 its you Dreman999 how foolish of me to argue against you regarding anything concerning Bioware my deepest apologies carry on old chap :cool:

LastRambo341

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"][QUOTE="dreman999"] The issue is not whether it's someone from bioware or not. It's about common decency. I use to be a huge final fantasy fan, and I have been massively disappointed by SE over the year. Yet I never did anything like this to any person at SE. The ceo of SE is in a whole world of his own. He would not care because the fan would not be able touch him. All I'm say is the if this was happening to you or I, we would not fare as well as you think she should deal with it.

Goyoshi12

So....we shouldn't try and be decent? We should all just bang our heads against the keyboard spewing ridiculous crap every hour on the hour 24/7?

Lovely....

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"] LMAO :lol: decency?? Its the freakin' Internet!LastRambo341

So....we shouldn't try and be decent? We should all just bang our heads against the keyboard spewing ridiculous crap every hour on the hour 24/7?

Lovely....

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"][QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

So....we shouldn't try and be decent? We should all just bang our heads against the keyboard spewing ridiculous crap every hour on the hour 24/7?

Lovely....

dreman999

LOOL, everyone gets harassed, one way or another.

I got FRAMED on YT, but guess what? I didn't complain. I just said "whatever" :P and continued what I do

Serves her right.Maybe next time she won't say those stupid things.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="LastRambo341"] Dude, there are millions using the internet. No one is gonna listen and "be decent". People are gonna do whatever they want, whether you like it or notLastRambo341

LOOL, everyone gets harassed, one way or another.

I got FRAMED on YT, but guess what? I didn't complain. I just said "whatever" :P and continued what I do

Serves her right.Maybe next time she won't say those stupid things.

Obiwan317

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] Let them do what ever they want....Just as long as they don't hound you or me like this woman. It's so different when it happens to someone else but it's another story when it happens to you.dreman999

LOOL, everyone gets harassed, one way or another.

I got FRAMED on YT, but guess what? I didn't complain. I just said "whatever" :P and continued what I do