Crysis warhead 9.0 AAAE at GS

there's stupid .

woobabooba

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

skrat_01

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

there's stupid .

AdrianWerner

snow/tree's been done before....boring.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

woobabooba

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

Aside from when you went to Hell and the caverns, every level looked the same.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

there's stupid .

woobabooba

snow/tree's been done before....boring.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

there's stupid .

AdrianWerner

snow/tree's been done before....boring.

doom3 was a remake of doom 1993...a retelling of the game.

only game i can think of taking place on mars is red faction and they ripped off doom.

but it's still not a base on red faction a mining plant.

doom3 levels are much more detailed computer screens everwhere interactable...plus moving machinery and crap.

crysis=make a island put trees on it...there you go.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

mo0ksi

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

Aside from when you went to Hell and the caverns, every level looked the same.

no..

Frozen tropical jungle is very imaginative and has not ever been done before in any videogame (heck...I can't even remember any movie or comicbook with setting like this). The alien spaceship also was very unique and unlike all the cliches that typicaly apear in other SF stories

AdrianWerner

The Dreamworks picture Ice Age has the same idea, naturally.

Strange frozen wastelands have been done a dime a dozen. Sure, you could argue where's a flash frozen jungle, but that's like creating a laser sword and trying to convince people it's nothing like a lightsaber.

The Day After Tomorrow's entire climax is a harsh frozen environment the world over.

And please describe to me what cliches about spaceships you are talking about.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

there's stupid .

woobabooba

snow/tree's been done before....boring.

doom3 was a remake of doom 1993...a retelling of the game.

only game i can think of taking place on mars is red faction and they ripped off doom.

but it's still not a base on red faction a mining plant.

doom3 levels are much more detailed computer screens everwhere interactable...plus moving machinery and crap.

crysis=make a island put trees on it...there you go.

D3 levels has been done in hundreds of videogames, compared to that Crysis is like a breath of fresh air. Even the jungle levels haven't been yet done to death in other games, like D3 levels were

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

Frozen tropical jungle is very imaginative and has not ever been done before in any videogame (heck...I can't even remember any movie or comicbook with setting like this). The alien spaceship also was very unique and unlike all the cliches that typicaly apear in other SF stories

FrozenLiquid

The Dreamworks picture Ice Age has the same idea, naturally.

Strange frozen wastelands have been done a dime a dozen. Sure, you could argue where's a flash frozen jungle, but that's like creating a laser sword and trying to convince people it's nothing like a lightsaber.

The Day After Tomorrow's entire climax is a harsh frozen environment the world over.

And please describe to me what cliches about spaceships you are talking about.

And what cliches? If you look at other videogames the the cliche is that alien interiors are repainted human ones. They just have funky colors, but all the doors, computer screens etc are all there. Crysis went for much less often seen organic and totally alien design and added Zero-G(which with added particles and other effects made it seem like the spaceship was filled with some sort of fluid), While it wasn't completely original, it's definitly not the cliche that's been plaguing so many videgames before (I call it Star Trek syndrome ;) )

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

gianshomai

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

[QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

woobabooba

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

yet you cant name one.

woobabooba

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

AdrianWerner

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

doom3 doesnt have caverns...they have a artifact dig site.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

yet you cant name one.

AdrianWerner

LOL no.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

woobabooba

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

doom3 doesnt have caverns...they have a artifact dig site.

You're absolutely right.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

woobabooba

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

doom3 doesnt have caverns...they have a artifact dig site.

which look exacly like every other cavern/mine in other FPSes

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

mo0ksi

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

doom3 doesnt have caverns...they have a artifact dig site.

You're absolutely right.

EPIC OWNAGE :D

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

yet you cant name one.

woobabooba

LOL no.

once again you just prove I'm right :D

So you like closed level design compared to open level design.

Limited game design with next to bugger all gameplay consequence and ability to play with your environment and use it against your enemies or your enemies use it against you.

Yeah doom 3 a freaking great game if you still want linaer path shooters with one set path and very little thinking in your level design.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="gianshomai"]

woobabooba, Doom is in Mars.. wow thats so orginal.

Tropical paradise is way better than Mars. I don't need to explain. */

mo0ksi

yea...how many games have levels in underground on mars doing artifact mining and scentific research.

doom was the first. lol

doom3 doesnt have caverns...they have a artifact dig site.

You're absolutely right.

that's just the name of the level...it's really just a artifact dig site.

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2006/106/928340_20060417_screen004.jpg

Damn what do you know a forrest level on quakewars enemy territory damn never seen that bore.

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2006/106/928340_20060417_screen004.jpg

Damn what do you know a forrest level on quakewars enemy territory damn never seen that bore.

woobabooba

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2006/106/928340_20060417_screen004.jpg

Damn what do you know a forrest level on quakewars enemy territory damn never seen that bore.

mo0ksi

You just cant kill trolls, but you can mod them ;)

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2006/012/reviews/928340_20060112_screen006.jpg

LOL CRYSIS=QUAKEWARS^^^^

Or how about?

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2002/pc/act/ghostreconislandthunder/thunder_screen003.jpg

Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Island Thunder

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/915255_20040820_screen006.jpg

Battlefield Vietnam ^^ wow i never seen a beach and some trees in a game before.

Haven't seen either ICe Age nor Day after tomorrow (hence "I can't remember"), but it hasn't been done in videogames before.And nah..the fact it's a jungle is actualy quite fun, because you've got the setting that everyone associates with hot weather and it's all frozen to rock. It's fun contrast. AdrianWerner

Ice Age and Ice Age 2: The Meltdown, both deal with juxtaposing landscapes i.e hot climates vs freezing cold weather. Same with the Day After Tomorrow: the entire world freezes up, including the very warm weathered Los Angeles. It's nothing special, because frozen settings have been done before, but yeah.

And what cliches? If you look at other videogames the the cliche is that alien interiors are repainted human ones. They just have funky colors, but all the doors, computer screens etc are all there. Crysis went for much less often seen organic and totally alien design and added Zero-G(which with added particles and other effects made it seem like the spaceship was filled with some sort of fluid), While it wasn't completely original, it's definitly not the cliche that's been plaguing so many videgames before (I call it Star Trek syndrome ;) )

Adrian_Werner

You call everything a syndrome, including music themes "Horner syndrome" :lol:. That was still a class1c.

Anyway, two reasons why this happens:

1) Quite possibly from a technical standpoint, simple geometry could only be done on old hardware.

2) It's generally accepted that if there's any life out there that's going to be as intelligent as we are, they would probably have had to have gone through the similar route as we did. It's an extension of the whole "two eyes, two arms, two legs, large brain" idea (i.e most aliens would look humanoid as opposed to something grotesque). I liked Crysis's spaceship level, but from a story standpoint, it doesn't make sense. The ship was created from blueprint to be used in zero-g (look at the architecture); it assumes the aliens work in a zero-g environment. Yet they can get pretty large (some are monstrous), and they obviously are very intelligent if they have high-tech equipment, and it's here where we also assume they came from another planet. Planets have mass; mass has gravity; so if they came from a planet large enough to sustain their own species, why are they flying around in zero-g like it's their native motor skill?

That's why most decent science fiction universes (that actually dabbles in sci fi as opposed to soap opera; it also includes the first Star Trek series) have humanoid aliens and human-esque architecture: there really is no reason something entirely different should be created. Like our own world history, a lot of different ethnicities (who never knew each other existed) created utilities of the same function that looked similar. Blades from Japan were made for similar use to the battle axes in Northern Europe; the pyramids at Giza looked similar to the temples in South America. The only thing that separates them from us is culture. Culture is what makes us distinct, and if we apply that to aliens of similar intelligence (or greater) to us, then we have to presume that it may be a cultural difference on an exponential scale that separates us from them.

Don't worry, I just don't have a grudge with Crysis's sci fi elements. I have a grudge on everything from Mass Effect to Halo in terms of video games. Unless you're Arthur C. Clarke or Iain (M.) Banks, I probably have a grudge against the latest science fiction literature too.

http://image.gamespotcdn.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/vietcong/0402/v_screen006.jpg

vietcong^^ damn it's far cry months before far cry was even released

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

woobabooba

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

Compared to the last titles it had poor level design - considering that its doom that essentially pioneered complex fps level design.

There was only so much claustrophobic corridors a developer could do. They stretched their limit.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

skrat_01

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

Compared to the last titles it had poor level design - considering that its doom that essentially pioneered complex fps level design.

There was only so much claustrophobic corridors a developer could do. They stretched their limit.

it could of been better...but the game still had more atmosphere than crysis.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

Frozen tropical jungle is very imaginative and has not ever been done before in any videogame (heck...I can't even remember any movie or comicbook with setting like this). The alien spaceship also was very unique and unlike all the cliches that typicaly apear in other SF stories

FrozenLiquid

The Dreamworks picture Ice Age has the same idea, naturally.

Strange frozen wastelands have been done a dime a dozen. Sure, you could argue where's a flash frozen jungle, but that's like creating a laser sword and trying to convince people it's nothing like a lightsaber.

The Day After Tomorrow's entire climax is a harsh frozen environment the world over.

And please describe to me what cliches about spaceships you are talking about.

Two examples, one of earth during an ice age.... and one in a 'new' ice age, and yet this somehow makes it a massive cliche - especially in video games?

That is stretching the argument a bit.

It is imaginative in Crysis. They take the lush jungles and beaches they had in Far Cry, and the first two thirds of the game, and turn it on its head - into somthing completely different.

That is an exellent idea of keeping a same location fresh.

However in Crysis they did not utilise the frozen wasteland well enough at all, though in Warhead Crytek seem to be on the ball.

doom3 levels are more complex than crysis...because of all the machines and crap moving all over the levels.woobabooba

Sig worthy.

You have no basis for that statement what so ever

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="woobabooba"]

crysis=boring level design.

end of story.

woobabooba

If anything Doom 3 is an indication of bad progression of level design.

doom3 has better level design....they should of let you go outside on mars surface more though.

Compared to the last titles it had poor level design - considering that its doom that essentially pioneered complex fps level design.

There was only so much claustrophobic corridors a developer could do. They stretched their limit.

it could of been better...but the game still had more atmosphere than crysis.

It was awesome at the start when the **** hit the fan, and you were terrified, then later you just got used to the constant reusing of jump scares and dim corridors.

Difference is in the earlier doom games it expanded from small areas to a grander and much more complex scale, while increasing the amount of enemies, variety and threat. Its sequal essentially expanded more on the 'inreased scale' in the later sections of the first.

Doom 3 never really did that, it stuck with corridoor crawling - however it did not maintain player interest, unlike a game such as System Shock 2.

There were some awesome levels - like Hell, which hit the spot, but it finished fairly quickly. Though it was a decent game.

I think Crysis maintained its atmosphere far better than Doom 3 - while Doom was reeking atmosphere initially it lost it as the game progressed.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]doom3 levels are more complex than crysis...because of all the machines and crap moving all over the levels.carlisledavid79

Sig worthy.

You have no basis for that statement what so ever

crysis=just terrain man...gullies/moutains/fields/trees it's not complex....there's no moving machinery to the levels.

You call everything a syndrome, including music themes "Horner syndrome" :lol:. That was still a class1c.

FrozenLiquid

Well... it was good analogy, so why not continue doing it in other mediums ? :)

Anyway, two reasons why this happens:

1) Quite possibly from a technical standpoint, simple geometry could only be done on old hardware.FrozenLiquid

Most likely, it's not just tech point. Our visual imagination has been largely shaped by movies and it's a lot cheaper to do human-like interiors than something completely alien. In the same way jungle enviorements are still less tired in games because it only has been few years since hardware reached levels that allowed for believale rendering of such enviorement, while much less polygon-intensive interiors could be done nicely since the first 3D games

2) It's generally accepted that if there's any life out there that's going to be as intelligent as we are, they would probably have had to have gone through the similar route as we did. It's an extension of the whole "two eyes, two arms, two legs, large brain" idea (i.e most aliens would look humanoid as opposed to something grotesque). I liked Crysis's spaceship level, but from a story standpoint, it doesn't make sense. The ship was created from blueprint to be used in zero-g (look at the architecture); it assumes the aliens work in a zero-g environment. Yet they can get pretty large (some are monstrous), and they obviously are very intelligent if they have high-tech equipment, and it's here where we also assume they came from another planet. Planets have mass; mass has gravity; so if they came from a planet large enough to sustain their own species, why are they flying around in zero-g like it's their native motor skill?FrozenLiquid

I don't remember exacly how it was explained (or rather what excuse for cool-looking aliens Crytek had), but didn't those aliens look extremely light weight? I doubt they could survive the strenght of Earth's gravitation. If their native planet had much weaker gravitation than Earth then their sturcture isn't capable of withstanding our gravitation. SImiliarly if you would live even on terramorfed mars or moon for many years you would never be able to get back to Earth again as your bones would get so weak they would break in Earth's gravitation.

Notice that it was much easier to kill aliens with punches or grabing them than it was with Koreans

That's why most decent science fiction universes (that actually dabbles in sci fi as opposed to soap opera; it also includes the first Star Trek series) have humanoid aliens and human-esque architecture: there really is no reason something entirely different should be created. Like our own world history, a lot of different ethnicities (who never knew each other existed) created utilities of the same function that looked similar. Blades from Japan were made for similar use to the battle axes in Northern Europe; the pyramids at Giza looked similar to the temples in South America. The only thing that separates them from us is culture. Culture is what makes us distinct, and if we apply that to aliens of similar intelligence (or greater) to us, then we have to presume that it may be a cultural difference on an exponential scale that separates us from them.

FrozenLiquid

Babylon5 in this regard was much more sensible, it retained the typical humanoid races, but also had tons of a lot human-like life forms

doom3 levels are more complex than crysis...because of all the machines and crap moving all over the levels.woobabooba

Its only animations. Crytek can also do it with their bad$$engine. But why would they put moving CRAP in Crysis?

However in Crysis they did not utilise the frozen wasteland well enough at all, though in Warhead Crytek seem to be on the ball.

skrat_01

Not to mention that the whole island was supposed to be one big level and you could have started from whatever you wanted (this I think wouldn't work too well)

How is the frozen island a cliche?

Two examples, one of earth during an ice age.... and one in a 'new' ice age, and yet this somehow makes it a massive cliche - especially in video games?

That is stretching the argument a bit.

It is imaginative in Crysis. They take the lush jungles and beaches they had in Far Cry, and the first two thirds of the game, and turn it on its head - into somthing completely different.

That is an exellent idea of keeping a same location fresh.

However in Crysis they did not utilise the frozen wasteland well enough at all, though in Warhead Crytek seem to be on the ball.

skrat_01

I have never, ever put video games in a vacuum when it comes to story and setting. It's such a massive cop out it's not even funny. Especially when there's this whole mantra "Games are art like film and literature too!", and then when the crunch time comes it's basically a "Give it a chance, such and such has never been done in a video game before".

I gave you two examples that most probably everyone would know. When an entire generation from 1985 onwards haven't even heard of the novel Journey to the Centre of the Earth (much less the old film adaptations) until Brendan Fraser stuck his ugly face in a new 3-D movie, I don't think I want to waste my time going through adventure and sci fi publications just to get my point across. Frozen lands have been done to death before, though alternative sci-fi has never been as popular as epic sci fi, thanks to Dune. You'll find them in sci fi periodicals aplenty. The Ice Age may just be the crux of my argument, and because it has existed before, of course people have been fascinated by lush lands being frozen over with no warning.

I honestly don't care if it was a flash frozen island, a flash frozen suburb, or flash frozen genitalia. Don't make the same mistake world builders do and think all they need to do is colour an Elf purple to create an original creature.

In Crysis you go inside the mountains. The US and Koreans say that the alien ship is an "artifact". Hence Crysis has an Artifact Excavation Site. Besides I'd prefer sanbox type gameplay than corridor shooters, the ones you like. And I'd take Crysis anyday.gianshomai

sandbox on boring level is boring game.

doom3 you go inside dig site,h3ll,train,underground research mars surface.

crysis=island/frozen island and one short level inside spaceship lol.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

However in Crysis they did not utilise the frozen wasteland well enough at all, though in Warhead Crytek seem to be on the ball.

AdrianWerner

Not to mention that the whole island was supposed to be one big level and you could have started from whatever you wanted (this I think wouldn't work too well)

I think it was done well-ish. I did like the fact that you got frozen every couple of seconds whilst the aliens were coming at you from all possible angles. It also looked pretty.

A lot of things that were promised of Crysis were omitted from the game. The first thing was the huge, open world. What did we end up with? Generally large, but still manageable segments of an island. Where was the day/night cycle? It was purely scripted, unless you get a mod for it. The next thing that was gonna happen was the dynamic weather. What did we get? A lot of incredibly lame tornadoes during the VTOL section. It might've been our fault, but people were predicting crazy weather with rain, tornadoes, tidal waves and then the mother of all flash freezes -- none of it came, except the flash freeze.

I honestly don't care if it was a flash frozen island, a flash frozen suburb, or flash frozen genitalia. Don't make the same mistake world builders do and think all they need to do is colour an Elf purple to create an original creature.

FrozenLiquid

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

However in Crysis they did not utilise the frozen wasteland well enough at all, though in Warhead Crytek seem to be on the ball.

AdrianWerner

Not to mention that the whole island was supposed to be one big level and you could have started from whatever you wanted (this I think wouldn't work too well)

I guess as development progressed they realised stuff they did earlier, did not work well design wise, hurting the quality of the last third.

Either way from the reviews and GamaSutra making of interview, Warhead seems to have very open 'ice island' levels that make an impact visually (the frozen ship in a screenshot lookds amazing), and have the open level design that the first exelled at.

I have never, ever put video games in a vacuum when it comes to story and setting. It's such a massive cop out it's not even funny. Especially when there's this whole mantra "Games are art like film and literature too!", and then when the crunch time comes it's basically a "Give it a chance, such and such has never been done in a video game before".

I gave you two examples that most probably everyone would know. When an entire generation from 1985 onwards haven't even heard of the novel Journey to the Centre of the Earth (much less the old film adaptations) until Brendan Fraser stuck his ugly face in a new 3-D movie, I don't think I want to waste my time going through adventure and sci fi publications just to get my point across. Frozen lands have been done to death before, though alternative sci-fi has never been as popular as epic sci fi, thanks to Dune. You'll find them in sci fi periodicals aplenty. The Ice Age may just be the crux of my argument, and because it has existed before, of course people have been fascinated by lush lands being frozen over with no warning.

I honestly don't care if it was a flash frozen island, a flash frozen suburb, or flash frozen genitalia. Don't make the same mistake world builders do and think all they need to do is colour an Elf purple to create an original creature.

FrozenLiquid

I just think in the context of a game it makes for an interesting change on the level design and gameplay mechanics, as well as the environments look.

Of course story and setting wise you can easily call it cliched, but the game is a whole different matter as a whole. Turning one of your settings to design levels on, on its head opens up a plethora of options, and can change the dynamic of game, rather than just be utilised in story and as a change of setting.

[QUOTE="gianshomai"]In Crysis you go inside the mountains. The US and Koreans say that the alien ship is an "artifact". Hence Crysis has an Artifact Excavation Site. Besides I'd prefer sanbox type gameplay than corridor shooters, the ones you like. And I'd take Crysis anyday.woobabooba

sandbox on boring level is boring game.

doom3 you go inside dig site,h3ll,train,underground research mars surface.

crysis=island/frozen island and one short level inside spaceship lol.

doom=mars/undergorunf and one other thing thats short inside something lol.

I CAN DO IT TOOO!