Crytek - "PC gamers don't buy games enough to justify large budget exclusiv

Tablets, netbooks and smartphones affect the handheld market not the PC market.....

Espada12

I'll try to go the extra mile and see if I can make you understand what absolutely anyone should be able to understand.

Back in 2003, people bought a PC to (read this part really slowly and maybe you'll understand) surf the web, check e mails and work with spreadsheets and word processors. Right now, tablets, netbooks and even phones are able to perform those tasks and, what's more important, MORE PEOPLE ARE BUYING THOSE DEVICES because they want to surf the web, check e mails and write documents.

If PC developers want to remain profitable, they have to go where the web surfing/e mail cheking/microsoft/openoffice crowd is going. And that is tablets, netbooks and smartphones, as well as regular desktop PC. In order to do that, they have to stop developing software for powerful platforms and make games that can run on many devices.

If PC developers keep going after the very few nerds who keep throwing money at their PCs to play everying in glorious 7800 x 9600, they will go bankrupt OR be forced to develop for the HD twin consoles too. The paradox is that, if they want to remain PC exclusive, they'll have to go after the tablet/smartphone/netbook crowd.

PC gaming will never die, but it isnt the pop culture gaming choice it seems. There are millions of PC gamers, but with it there is a level of up keep that many arent interested in undertaking. And there not wrong for it. People are entitled to their entertainment without being passionate, gaming fans. Consoles serve that purpose. It seems there are more of these game fans than the passionate gamers. Not developing for consoles isnt going to miraculously make them PC gamers. So sales would take a big hit, and how does that move an industry forward?cainetao11

So I am not passionate because I don't want to play games on the PC as much as consoles?

That's just not true... When gaming on any machine there is no compromise between each choice, it just depends on whether you want to play those games or not.

PC gaming tends to be more bespoke, but that doesn't make it the best possible choice for hardcore gamers.

Crytek are one of the most pathetic sell outs I have seen to date.

They sell 3 million copies of Crysis on just one platform, EA themselves commented on it exceeding their expectations, and they complain. They make enough money to expand the business, produce Warhead and even acquire a developer or two, and they complain. Even when they have whole heatedly embraced the console audience, giving their original PC audience the middle finger, they complain about consoles being too weak for their needs.

All Crytek ever do is complain. They won't be happy until they are outselling Halo and Call of Duty, so they will never be happy.

Consoles can have them, good riddance.

AnnoyedDragon

Surprised it took 5 pages for sum1 to actually remember all Crytek do is bit** and moan. I for one am not going to buy another Crytek game.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

Crytek are one of the most pathetic sell outs I have seen to date.

They sell 3 million copies of Crysis on just one platform, EA themselves commented on it exceeding their expectations, and they complain. They make enough money to expand the business, produce Warhead and even acquire a developer or two, and they complain. Even when they have whole heatedly embraced the console audience, giving their original PC audience the middle finger, they complain about consoles being too weak for their needs.

All Crytek ever do is complain. They won't be happy until they are outselling Halo and Call of Duty, so they will never be happy.

Consoles can have them, good riddance.

Boomshaffted

I've never understood this argument to be honest. Crytek made a PC exclusive title that sold well, it taught them a lot of things and earned them some capital and some brand recognition. They didn't blow anyone away but it was a solid success. They went on to father solidify that position by reusing the tech and the setting to increase the profit and get another title under their belt as a standalone studio (after leaving Ubisoft and the FarCry franchise). With that done they are looking to decide what their next step should be.

So now they are trying to:

1) Do something new by going multi-plat. Not a small technical challenge in itself.

2) Expand their market base three or four time. They are a business, why wouldn't they try to broaden their sales? Why would anyone expect them to turn their back on the potential to greatly increase thier profit?

3) Open a second viable market, if they can make the CryEngine competitive cross platform, they can start being a real competitor to the unreal engine, as long as it's PC Exclusive, there's very few who care enough to pay large sums to use it.

A lot of PC Gamers seem to feel that Crytek somehow owe the PC Gamers some debt of gratitude. I have to disagree, PC Gamers bought Crysis, not out of compassion or to help Crytek but because they wanted the game. Crytek doesn't owe PC Gamers any more than PC Gamers owe Crytek. If Crytek started talking about how PC Gamers 'sold out' or how PC Gamers gave Crytek 'the middle finger' by not buying Crysis 2 I'd have thought they were silly.

From a profit point of view, Crysis 2 makes a helluva lot more sense than trying to make a Crysis 1 clone. It broadens their market, it expands that technical experience and expertise, it provides a huge boost for their third part engine business (something that in itself could end up earning them more than crysis 1 and 2 combined). So why is it so wrong for Crytek to do what they feel is the best course of action for their business?

My favorite pc game, just cause 2, is multiplat.

As has already been pointed out, it's not about making the games available on consoles, it's about crapping up the pc version in the process. It is possible to do the former without doing the latter.

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] By that logic the NGP and the 3DS are going to destroy console gaming. :roll: MrSelf-Destruct

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-crysis-2

Well well well, looks like more of what we've been saying for years.

No more excuses PC Gamers, you guys are holding back your own platform.

EvanTheGamer

I am a PC gamer. Therefore I am an evil priating POS and I must be a nerd who has never had a date and lives with his mother.

Oh wait... :roll:

I've never illegally downloaded a PC game in my life, have been dating, and live on my own. And I prefer PC.

The universe must exploded or something.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="jjccjj92"]Handhelds cater to a totally different market than consoles, PC does not.

jjccjj92

I am a PC gamer. Therefore I am an evil priating POS and I must be a nerd who has never had a date and lives with his mother.

Oh wait... :roll:

I've never illegally downloaded a PC game in my life, have been dating, and live on my own. And I prefer PC.

The universe must exploded or something.

organic_machine

Blizzard, Valve, Dice, Bioware, Arenanet(80million on GW2)

/thread

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] How does PC not cater to a different market than iPads, Blackberries, and Netbooks? People who want to sit down to enjoy a deep gaming experience are going to do it on a gaming PC and not an iPad. MrSelf-Destruct

I should have stopped reading after your first sentence. lol. Anyway, the casual use of desktops and laptops may dwindle thanks to these nifty new devices, but the high-end gaming market never really depended on those users to begin with. The people buying the top of the line Nvidia cards and spending $1500 on rig builds are still going to be doing it a decade from now. As long as people want the best technology has to offer and not just Angry Birds, PC gaming isn't going anywhere. MrSelf-Destruct

They will always exist. The question is how many there will be in 10 years.

In the music world, there are people who still spend thousands of dollars on studio equipment. But the hard truth is that more and more people are recording their songs using electronic drums, amp emulation and MIDI, because it's far cheaper and the results are pretty damn good. In the other end of that same spectrum, some people still buy CDs, but the reality is that they are vastly outnumbered now by people who buy/pirate mp3s. In fact, a new trend I've been seeing from many bands is releasing a vinyl record with a digital download code, so you will have a physical copy you will never really have to play. No CD version is released.

Things change. Some people remain loyal to the old school, but the new school WILL take over. And tablets and netbooks ARE taking over desktop PC. If developers insist on going of ther the high end desktop crowd, they'll go bankrupt, because the number of high end desktop enthusiasts will only decrease.

I have to really disagree here. I'm seeing dozens of statements like Crytek betraying the PC Gamers, Crytek selling out, giving the finger to the PC Gamers, turning their back on the platform that made them and so on. That all seems to me to point to a lot of PC Gamers (not necessarily you personally) feeling like CryTek owes them something. If they didn't, why would they be so enraged at how Cryis 2 was made and launched.

Again my personal impression, but it seems to me that the message from crytek has been fairly consistent: We did pretty well with Crysis, but we'd have liked to do even better. We're worried that Piracy and a limited number of PC Gamers with high end hardware are limiting the sale potential for games on the PC. In addition the big hurdle and biggest potential in the game industry right now lies in multi-plat games so that's what we'll be looking towards. Those are obviously my words but not Cryteks, but that's what I've taken away from the snippets and quotes I've seen here and there.

Reading between the lines here it seems to me that the message is that if you want to be one of the big boys in the FPS market you are eventually going to be wanting to move towards multi-plat. Outside of first part studios I can't think of any franchise aside from Gears of War that are still exclusive (and even then, not entirely since the first one was released for the PC). STALKER is still PC Exclusive but they've also talked about going multi-plat. Maybe CryTek didn't do as good a job as Valve in communicating but if that's the extent of CryTek's crimes against the PC Gamers, why the outrage?

Mazoch

The thing is, they did betray their PC audience, Crysis 2 was a 100% console port. They actually went further than most console developers in completely disregarding the PC version. Most console ports bother to scale the art assets in the game between graphical settings, Crysis 2 didn't. It was as if the entirety of the graphical options in that game could be made in 10 minutes using notepad.

They didn't just go cross platform, they became console developers; that ported to PC as a after thought. Given Crytek's history on PC, is it really unreasonable for PC gamers to react in such a manner?

You say they are acting like Crytek owes them something, I suppose they are. But I don't see that as being unreasonable, given the companies long standing relationship with the PC audience. Most companies that turn their back on PC at least go through a transitional period, Crytek did it in the process of one game, which makes it so shocking.

From a business standpoint, does Crytek owe PC gamers anything? Of course not. But this is a PR disaster with the PC audience.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]I should have stopped reading after your first sentence. lol. Anyway, the casual use of desktops and laptops may dwindle thanks to these nifty new devices, but the high-end gaming market never really depended on those users to begin with. The people buying the top of the line Nvidia cards and spending $1500 on rig builds are still going to be doing it a decade from now. As long as people want the best technology has to offer and not just Angry Birds, PC gaming isn't going anywhere. LordQuorthon

They will always exist. The question is how many there will be in 10 years.

In the music world, there are people who still spend thousands of dollars on studio equipment. But the hard truth is that more and more people are recording their songs using electronic drums, amp emulation and MIDI, because it's far cheaper and the results are pretty damn good. In the other end of that same spectrum, some people still buy CDs, but the reality is that they are vastly outnumbered now by people who buy/pirate mp3s. In fact, a new trend I've been seeing from many bands is releasing a vinyl record with a digital download code, so you will have a physical copy you will never really have to play. No CD version is released.

Things change. Some people remain loyal to the old school, but the new school WILL take over. And tablets and netbooks ARE taking over desktop PC. If developers insist on going of ther the high end desktop crowd, they'll go bankrupt, because the number of high end desktop enthusiasts will only decrease.

Didn't Crysis 1 and Warhead sell over countless millions? What is this money-hungry attitude of theirs?
Not only consolized one of the saving graces on the PC but now they backstab all PC gamers that they are undeserving big-budget games?
Oh wow. That money on consoles must have intoxicated them.

ouch. I thought Crytek was one of the PC's posterboy developers. This means alot coming from them.

Who cares. Big budget games aren't even that good unless you enjoy your hand being held.

It's ironic. They want Halo/COD numbers for their sales. Do they seriously think Infinity Ward/Treyarch/Bungie put money into those games? ROFL. They've been using modified engines from 10 years ago and just copy/paste with each new iteration.

You are failing to understand that the PC market isn't sustained by the very tiny, very niche group of people who buy their $1500 machines specifically for the purpose of gaming.

jjccjj92

Yeah the PC GAMING market is dominated by mid-range gamers. I still don't see your point.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]I should have stopped reading after your first sentence. lol. Anyway, the casual use of desktops and laptops may dwindle thanks to these nifty new devices, but the high-end gaming market never really depended on those users to begin with. The people buying the top of the line Nvidia cards and spending $1500 on rig builds are still going to be doing it a decade from now. As long as people want the best technology has to offer and not just Angry Birds, PC gaming isn't going anywhere. LordQuorthon

They will always exist. The question is how many there will be in 10 years.

In the music world, there are people who still spend thousands of dollars on studio equipment. But the hard truth is that more and more people are recording their songs using electronic drums, amp emulation and MIDI, because it's far cheaper and the results are pretty damn good. In the other end of that same spectrum, some people still buy CDs, but the reality is that they are vastly outnumbered now by people who buy/pirate mp3s. In fact, a new trend I've been seeing from many bands is releasing a vinyl record with a digital download code, so you will have a physical copy you will never really have to play. No CD version is released.

Things change. Some people remain loyal to the old school, but the new school WILL take over. And tablets and netbooks ARE taking over desktop PC. If developers insist on going of ther the high end desktop crowd, they'll go bankrupt, because the number of high end desktop enthusiasts will only decrease.

Not for GAMING. Seriously, where are you getting your information from? Netbooks/Tablets maybe overtaking PCs for business purposes but not for gaming which is what we are talking about.

Again, I agree that tablets and such are making the casual PC irrelevant, but they have nothing to do with high-end PC gaming. The only way a tablet is going to put PC gaming out of the market is when you can play games like Crysis 2 on them without framerate dips and the need to dumb the game down. PC gamers are no dying breed. MrSelf-Destruct

It would be extremely helpful if you removed the term "casual" from your brain. It's an idiotic term that serves no real purpose. It's a word made up by developers with high egos to justify themselves for not doing what a sensible person in their position will do: GO AND GAIN AN AUDIENCE.

Here's a reality check, and even if you like your high tech products, you'll have to see that I have a point: Normal people should NOT be chasing developers by upgrading their machines just to keep up with those developers' egos. Developers SHOULD BE CHASING NORMAL PEOPLE by making software that goes WHERE NORMAL PEOPLE GO.

The golden era of PC gaming was back in the lat 90s, early 00s. You know why it was so awesome? Because if you got relatively new computer just to check your e mails, chances are that you were going to be able to play 90% of the games that were going to be released that year.

People like you will abandon the high tech PC building hobbie. And I don't mean you, because you may stick to it and that's perfectly valid, I mean people like you. They'll find new interests, new hobbies, real life will be too hard for them and demand all their effort and time. In the meatime, you have a new generation of guys growing up with netbooks and iPhones. This is something that any relatively sensible businessman should see. But developers are not businessmen. They think businesses are ugly and dirty. And THAT is what's going to kill PC gaming. Not TEH CASUALS or TEH PIRATES.

lol Crysis 1 and warhead sold 4,5 million together thats more than all version of crysis 2 will ever get :lol:

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]I should have stopped reading after your first sentence. lol. Anyway, the casual use of desktops and laptops may dwindle thanks to these nifty new devices, but the high-end gaming market never really depended on those users to begin with. The people buying the top of the line Nvidia cards and spending $1500 on rig builds are still going to be doing it a decade from now. As long as people want the best technology has to offer and not just Angry Birds, PC gaming isn't going anywhere. LordQuorthon

They will always exist. The question is how many there will be in 10 years.

In the music world, there are people who still spend thousands of dollars on studio equipment. But the hard truth is that more and more people are recording their songs using electronic drums, amp emulation and MIDI, because it's far cheaper and the results are pretty damn good. In the other end of that same spectrum, some people still buy CDs, but the reality is that they are vastly outnumbered now by people who buy/pirate mp3s. In fact, a new trend I've been seeing from many bands is releasing a vinyl record with a digital download code, so you will have a physical copy you will never really have to play. No CD version is released.

Things change. Some people remain loyal to the old school, but the new school WILL take over. And tablets and netbooks ARE taking over desktop PC. If developers insist on going of ther the high end desktop crowd, they'll go bankrupt, because the number of high end desktop enthusiasts will only decrease.

They said the exact same thing when Laptops arrived... and now ther're saying the same thing with the new toys... and they'll keep saying.

In 10 years, maybe it's going to be something else...

Agreed, and this comes from a 32 year old veteran who played pc's most of you don't even find in a museum these days !! Pc gamers are just bringing this to themselves . I don't make faces when big budget titles like GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption don't make it on PC (or not at their consoles counterpart release date) . THEY SIMPLY DON'T SELL ENOUGH !! And THIS is a shame, because titles like Supreme Commander and Crysis proved that PC has a potential consoles can only dream of .

This being said I think PC's will widen the gap the coming years, unless next gen systems are anounced this E3 or next year's . If the next gen of consoles doesn't arrive before 2015, I think we will see more big budget PC games again .

Instead of consolizing multiplats, make the game for PC first and foremost then give the consoles the sloppy seconds. Problem solved.

Crossel777

^^ Implying that PC gamers are somehow more important than console gamers.

Agreed, and this comes from a 32 year old veteran who played pc's most of you don't even find in a museum these days !! Pc gamers are just bringing this to themselves . I don't make faces when big budget titles like GTA4 and Red Dead Redemption don't make it on PC (or not at their consoles counterpart release date) . THEY SIMPLY DON'T SELL ENOUGH !! And THIS is a shame, because titles like Supreme Commander and Crysis proved that PC has a potential consoles can only dream of .

This being said I think PC's will widen the gap the coming years, unless next gen systems are anounced this E3 or next year's . If the next gen of consoles doesn't arrive before 2015, I think we will see more big budget PC games again .

zekere

Then why even developpe the game to PC?

Obviously it's better to port the game to all system then just one... BTW, GTA4 made it to the PC...

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

I have to really disagree here. I'm seeing dozens of statements like Crytek betraying the PC Gamers, Crytek selling out, giving the finger to the PC Gamers, turning their back on the platform that made them and so on. That all seems to me to point to a lot of PC Gamers (not necessarily you personally) feeling like CryTek owes them something. If they didn't, why would they be so enraged at how Cryis 2 was made and launched.

Again my personal impression, but it seems to me that the message from crytek has been fairly consistent: We did pretty well with Crysis, but we'd have liked to do even better. We're worried that Piracy and a limited number of PC Gamers with high end hardware are limiting the sale potential for games on the PC. In addition the big hurdle and biggest potential in the game industry right now lies in multi-plat games so that's what we'll be looking towards. Those are obviously my words but not Cryteks, but that's what I've taken away from the snippets and quotes I've seen here and there.

Reading between the lines here it seems to me that the message is that if you want to be one of the big boys in the FPS market you are eventually going to be wanting to move towards multi-plat. Outside of first part studios I can't think of any franchise aside from Gears of War that are still exclusive (and even then, not entirely since the first one was released for the PC). STALKER is still PC Exclusive but they've also talked about going multi-plat. Maybe CryTek didn't do as good a job as Valve in communicating but if that's the extent of CryTek's crimes against the PC Gamers, why the outrage?

AnnoyedDragon

The thing is, they did betray their PC audience, Crysis 2 was a 100% console port. They actually went further than most console developers in completely disregarding the PC version. Most console ports bother to scale the art assets in the game between graphical settings, Crysis 2 didn't. It was as if the entirety of the graphical options in that game could be made in 10 minutes using notepad.

They didn't just go cross platform, they became console developers; that ported to PC as a after thought. Given Crytek's history on PC, is it really unreasonable for PC gamers to react in such a manner?

You say they are acting like Crytek owes them something, I suppose they are. But I don't see that as being unreasonable, given the companies long standing relationship with the PC audience. Most companies that turn their back on PC at least go through a transitional period, Crytek did it in the process of one game, which makes it so shocking.

From a business standpoint, does Crytek owe PC gamers anything? Of course not. But this is a PR disaster with the PC audience.

Crysis never tried to hide the fact that it was a game meant to do well on all platforms. But for all accounts Crysis two is still one of the best looking PC Games out there. While it looks like most people feel that it's not quite as good looking at the first it sounds like it certainly one of the top games on the PC from a graphical point of view. While their choice to exclude detailed graphical options might be baffling it's hardly a matter of them being lazy. If they were lazy they would have added the engine support for the different graphical options in the first place, that they choice not to make the settings directly accessible to the PC Gamers is strange but again I don't see it as any kind of betrayal.

And yes I do think it's unreasonable for PC Gamers to react like they do. Crysis made a game, they never hid the fact that their focus over the last couple of years was to extent the CryEngine to support consoles, they never hid the fact that it was a multi-plat game. They've been honest and upfront with their concerns regarding the PC Games market, even if PC Gamers don't agree with their arguments or reasoning. But turn your question around, Given Cryteks history on the PC would it really be unreasonable for PC Gamers to cut CryTek some slack, not fault them for trying something new or perhaps to look past a couple of poor design choices?

And you probably are correct in that it's a PR disaster for Crytek, but I would also argue that it's a PR disaster for PC Gamers. What developer in their right mind would try to support the PC Gaming community after seeing how the PC Gaming community reacts. If you were the developers of 'the next big thing', would you say 'yaa that's the kind of players I want as my community!'.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] Again, I agree that tablets and such are making the casual PC irrelevant, but they have nothing to do with high-end PC gaming. The only way a tablet is going to put PC gaming out of the market is when you can play games like Crysis 2 on them without framerate dips and the need to dumb the game down. PC gamers are no dying breed. LordQuorthon

It would be extremely helpful if you removed the term "casual" from your brain. It's an idiotic term that serves no real purpose. It's a word made up by developers with high egos to justify themselves for not doing what a sensible person in their position will do: GO AND GAIN AN AUDIENCE.

Here's a reality check, and even if you like your high tech products, you'll have to see that I have a point: Normal people should NOT be chasing developers by upgrading their machines just to keep up with those developers' egos. Developers SHOULD BE CHASING NORMAL PEOPLE by making software that goes WHERE NORMAL PEOPLE GO.

The golden era of PC gaming was back in the lat 90s, early 00s. You know why it was so awesome? Because if you got relatively new computer just to check your e mails, chances are that you were going to be able to play 90% of the games that were going to be released that year.

People like you will abandon the high tech PC building hobbie. And I don't mean you, because you may stick to it and that's perfectly valid, I mean people like you. They'll find new interests, new hobbies, real life will be too hard for them and demand all their effort and time. In the meatime, you have a new generation of guys growing up with netbooks and iPhones. This is something that any relatively sensible businessman should see. But developers are not businessmen. They think businesses are ugly and dirty. And THAT is what's going to kill PC gaming. Not TEH CASUALS or TEH PIRATES.

[QUOTE="Crossel777"]

Instead of consolizing multiplats, make the game for PC first and foremost then give the consoles the sloppy seconds. Problem solved.

xYamatox

^^ Implying that PC gamers are somehow more important than console gamers.

Consoles would benefit from PC being the lead platform in games. It would mean that a high end version would downscale to the consoles, providing the opportunity for it to scale differently for each specification, rather than the same version being carbon copied across all platforms.

lol Crysis 1 and warhead sold 4,5 million together thats more than all version of crysis 2 will ever get :lol:

HFkami

I must get crystal ball you have..ALSO..there are how many pcs in the world compared to consoles?? hummm..lets say 600million pcs out there..how many consoles?..maybe 100 million this gen? or so?? Just throwing some numbers out there..So my thinking is like this..IF a game doesnt sell 4-5million copies out of 600million pcs..there is a HUGE problem and honestly nothing to brag about. NOW if a game like KZ3,UC2,HALO,MARIO,ect sell 2-4 million with far less consoles out there..THAT is more impressive to me.

Whatever you say Crytek, while you're dumbing down games. Blizzard is buying their thousandth yacht due to money made exclusively from PC gaming.

inb4blizzardisoverrated.

Vesica_Prime

Oddly, the same publisher funding Crytek is also funding BioWare for the supposedly most expensive game ever, which is a PC exclusive.

I wonder, is this some kind of defense mechanism that Crytek is trying to pull off after the failure that was Crysis 2?

Agreed on Blizzard . Also, DICE is doing a great job with Battlefield 3 . Their game is the first reason for me to buy a new PC by the end of the year !!

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Not for GAMING. Seriously, where are you getting your information from? Netbooks/Tablets maybe overtaking PCs for business purposes but not for gaming which is what we are talking about.

LordQuorthon

Video games are supposed to chase people on whatever hardware people choose to include as a part of their normal lives. Normal people should not be chasing video games by acquiring whatever hardware developers want. The first business model is derived from common sense. The second is both idiotic and suicidal.

But that's ok. You clearly are of the slow type. An average system warrior. I'll just leave this discussion as it is now.

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

lol Crysis 1 and warhead sold 4,5 million together thats more than all version of crysis 2 will ever get :lol:

VanDammFan

I must get crystal ball you have..ALSO..there are how many pcs in the world compared to consoles?? hummm..lets say 600million pcs out there..how many consoles?..maybe 100 million this gen? or so?? Just throwing some numbers out there..So my thinking is like this..IF a game doesnt sell 4-5million copies out of 600million pcs..there is a HUGE problem and honestly nothing to brag about. NOW if a game like KZ3,UC2,HALO,MARIO,ect sell 2-4 million with far less consoles out there..THAT is more impressive to me.

lol 97% of these pcs cant even play crysis

DICE diagrees.

Crysis and Crysis Warhead sold a total of 5 million copies. How is that a bad sale?

I must get crystal ball you have..ALSO..there are how many pcs in the world compared to consoles?? hummm..lets say 600million pcs out there..how many consoles?..maybe 100 million this gen? or so?? Just throwing some numbers out there..So my thinking is like this..IF a game doesnt sell 4-5million copies out of 600million pcs..there is a HUGE problem and honestly nothing to brag about. NOW if a game like KZ3,UC2,HALO,MARIO,ect sell 2-4 million with far less consoles out there..THAT is more impressive to me.

VanDammFan

Highly flawed argument. PC is a modular platform, every PC sold is not meant for gaming.

[QUOTE="VanDammFan"]

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

lol Crysis 1 and warhead sold 4,5 million together thats more than all version of crysis 2 will ever get :lol:

HFkami

I must get crystal ball you have..ALSO..there are how many pcs in the world compared to consoles?? hummm..lets say 600million pcs out there..how many consoles?..maybe 100 million this gen? or so?? Just throwing some numbers out there..So my thinking is like this..IF a game doesnt sell 4-5million copies out of 600million pcs..there is a HUGE problem and honestly nothing to brag about. NOW if a game like KZ3,UC2,HALO,MARIO,ect sell 2-4 million with far less consoles out there..THAT is more impressive to me.

lol 97% of these pcs cant even play crysis

[QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

Whatever you say Crytek, while you're dumbing down games. Blizzard is buying their thousandth yacht due to money made exclusively from PC gaming.

inb4blizzardisoverrated.

yellosnolvr

This is just a guess on my part, but I think the big difference here is tied to the graphical expectations. No one becomes enraged when Blizzard doesn't deliver cutting edge graphics. They've managed to set expectations at a level where they can make a title that will work well on a very wide range of machines out there. That means that they can easily appeal to a very broad market. Crysis on the other hand carries the expectations of top tier graphics. If you deliver on that you also tend to limit your potential market.

Blizzard has obviously done insanely well on the PC Platform, but they are something of a unique situation. The problem here is that if the argument is that you just need to make games that are as good sa Valve or Blizzards then most devs are going come up short. Most studios done have the experience, the funding and the talent to make games that good, so if that was the requirement to succeed on the PC Platform there wouldnt be more than 2-3 developers actually releasing PC Games :P

[QUOTE="HFkami"]

lol Crysis 1 and warhead sold 4,5 million together thats more than all version of crysis 2 will ever get :lol:

VanDammFan

I must get crystal ball you have..ALSO..there are how many pcs in the world compared to consoles?? hummm..lets say 600million pcs out there..how many consoles?..maybe 100 million this gen? or so?? Just throwing some numbers out there..So my thinking is like this..IF a game doesnt sell 4-5million copies out of 600million pcs..there is a HUGE problem and honestly nothing to brag about. NOW if a game like KZ3,UC2,HALO,MARIO,ect sell 2-4 million with far less consoles out there..THAT is more impressive to me.

Wow, dude. You're basically saying that developers should stop pushing the gaming industry in terms of tech MrSelf-Destruct

Of course I am.

and simply settle for making apps for iPad and Facebook.MrSelf-Destruct

I'm saying there is a middle ground between Crysis and Angry Birds.

Casual is a real term, and I used it in the most appropriate sense. If you don't understand it then I apologize. I'm simply referring to the people who buy PCs and laptops for surfing the web, sending emails, studying, paying bills, playing solitaire, managing their finances, etc. Those people would do just fine with an iPad or other tablet, but PC gamers need more than that. MrSelf-Destruct

Those are not casuals. Those are NORMAL PEOPLE. Casual is a term made up by developers to make you forgive them for not expading their audience, which is what all software developers should do.

Are Windows Vista users HARDCORE USERS because they chose an OS that eats up humongous amounts of RAM? Are Windows 7 users STUPID CASUALS because Windows 7 doesn't eat up humongous amounts of RAM?

If you think the next generation of gamers are going to settle for nothing more than what's capable on a tablet or a console then you are dead wrong. As long as bigger, faster, stronger = better gamers will never abandon PC gaming. MrSelf-Destruct

No. What I think is that there may not be a new generation of gamers whatsoever if developers insist on refusing to expand their audience. Nowadays, kids don't give a crap about desktop PCs. They have their iPhones, they'll have their tablets and whatnot. If you don't grab them at that age, you may not grab them at all. Consoles were supposed to do that, but now you have two consoles that try to please people who have been gamers for decades and one that timidly tries to expand the audience and grab those kids. If you want those kids, you better give them something cool to play on their iPhones and tablets, because that's THEIR world, not building desktop PCs.

And no; kids do not magically gravitate towards video games because they're kids. You HAVE to go and get them. And you HAVE to go and get the rest of the family too.

[QUOTE="yellosnolvr"][QUOTE="Vesica_Prime"]

Whatever you say Crytek, while you're dumbing down games. Blizzard is buying their thousandth yacht due to money made exclusively from PC gaming.

inb4blizzardisoverrated.

Mazoch

This is just a guess on my part, but I think the big difference here is tied to the graphical expectations. No one becomes enraged when Blizzard doesn't deliver cutting edge graphics. They've managed to set expectations at a level where they can make a title that will work well on a very wide range of machines out there. That means that they can easily appeal to a very broad market. Crysis on the other hand carries the expectations of top tier graphics. If you deliver on that you also tend to limit your potential market.

Blizzard has obviously done insanely well on the PC Platform, but they are something of a unique situation. The problem here is that if the argument is that you just need to make games that are as good sa Valve or Blizzards then most devs are going come up short. Most studios done have the experience, the funding and the talent to make games that good, so if that was the requirement to succeed on the PC Platform there wouldnt be more than 2-3 developers actually releasing PC Games :P

Those are not casuals. Those are NORMAL PEOPLE. Casual is a term made up by developers to make you forgive them for not expading their audience, which is what all software developers should do.

LordQuorthon

What are you talking about? Every medium has a casual and a core audience, game developers didn't come along and make it up.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Not for GAMING. Seriously, where are you getting your information from? Netbooks/Tablets maybe overtaking PCs for business purposes but not for gaming which is what we are talking about.

LordQuorthon

Video games are supposed to chase people on whatever hardware people choose to include as a part of their normal lives. Normal people should not be chasing video games by acquiring whatever hardware developers want. The first business model is derived from common sense. The second is both idiotic and suicidal.

But that's ok. You clearly are of the slow type. An average system warrior. I'll just leave this discussion as it is now.

By this logic netbooks and tablets are replacing consoles as well, since you know normally people shouldn't be chasing video games by acquiring whatever hardware the developers want :roll: . I also love the insult, it adds loads of credibility to your statement.

What are you talking about? Every medium has a casual and a core audience, game developers didn't come along and make it up.

topgunmv

Name 10.

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"]

Those are not casuals. Those are NORMAL PEOPLE. Casual is a term made up by developers to make you forgive them for not expading their audience, which is what all software developers should do.

topgunmv

What are you talking about? Every medium has a casual and a core audience, game developers didn't come along and make it up.

He's making ridiculous statements all while not realising he's speaking out against consoles as well, and yet he calls me slow.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]Wow, dude. You're basically saying that developers should stop pushing the gaming industry in terms of tech LordQuorthon

Of course I am.

and simply settle for making apps for iPad and Facebook.MrSelf-Destruct

I'm saying there is a middle ground between Crysis and Angry Birds.

Casual is a real term, and I used it in the most appropriate sense. If you don't understand it then I apologize. I'm simply referring to the people who buy PCs and laptops for surfing the web, sending emails, studying, paying bills, playing solitaire, managing their finances, etc. Those people would do just fine with an iPad or other tablet, but PC gamers need more than that. MrSelf-Destruct

Those are not casuals. Those are NORMAL PEOPLE. Casual is a term made up by developers to make you forgive them for not expading their audience, which is what all software developers should do.

Are Windows Vista users HARDCORE USERS because they chose an OS that eats up humongous amounts of RAM? Are Windows 7 users STUPID CASUALS because Windows 7 doesn't eat up humongous amounts of RAM?

If you think the next generation of gamers are going to settle for nothing more than what's capable on a tablet or a console then you are dead wrong. As long as bigger, faster, stronger = better gamers will never abandon PC gaming. MrSelf-Destruct

No. What I think is that there may not be a new generation of gamers whatsoever if developers insist on refusing to expand their audience. Nowadays, kids don't give a crap about desktop PCs. They have their iPhones, they'll have their tablets and whatnot. If you don't grab them at that age, you may not grab them at all. Consoles were supposed to do that, but now you have two consoles that try to please people who have been gamers for decades and one that timidly tries to expand the audience and grab those kids. If you want those kids, you better give them something cool to play on their iPhones and tablets, because that's THEIR world, not building desktop PCs.

And no; kids do not magically gravitate towards video games because they're kids. You HAVE to go and get them. And you HAVE to go and get the rest of the family too.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

[QUOTE="yellosnolvr"] this. make quality games for pc, then you'll see a difference. if you're still not looking to blizzard or valve for examples on how to make a profit with PC games, you're doing it wrong. dont get me wrong, crysis 2 had a great single player, but it was plagued by simple miscues on crytek's end. and that horrid multiplayeryellosnolvr

This is just a guess on my part, but I think the big difference here is tied to the graphical expectations. No one becomes enraged when Blizzard doesn't deliver cutting edge graphics. They've managed to set expectations at a level where they can make a title that will work well on a very wide range of machines out there. That means that they can easily appeal to a very broad market. Crysis on the other hand carries the expectations of top tier graphics. If you deliver on that you also tend to limit your potential market.

Blizzard has obviously done insanely well on the PC Platform, but they are something of a unique situation. The problem here is that if the argument is that you just need to make games that are as good sa Valve or Blizzards then most devs are going come up short. Most studios done have the experience, the funding and the talent to make games that good, so if that was the requirement to succeed on the PC Platform there wouldnt be more than 2-3 developers actually releasing PC Games :P

That's a very good point. I think you're correct when you talk about it 'feeling like' a PC Game. So my question (not necessarily to you specifically) would be: Do you think the PC Gaming community as a whole would have embraced Crysis 2 if it had better ingame settings and options, didn't have the silly 'press to start' screen and DX11 out of the box?

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

What are you talking about? Every medium has a casual and a core audience, game developers didn't come along and make it up.

LordQuorthon

Name 10.

Movie franchises, sci fi franchises, fantasy franchises, book franchises, book genres, music genres, movie genres, directors, authors, business software(power of toolset vs ease of use).

I could go on and on.

My father could probably give you any random factoid you could ever want to know about pink floyd. I like 2 or 3 of their songs. I'm a casual pink floyd fan, my dad is a core fan.