Crytek - "PC gamers don't buy games enough to justify large budget exclusiv

That's a very good point. I think you're correct when you talk about it 'feeling like' a PC Game. So my question (not necessarily to you specifically) would be: Do you think the PC Gaming community as a whole would have embarrassed Crysis two if it had better ingame settings and options, didn't have the silly 'press to start' screen and DX11 out of the box?

Mazoch

I don't think anyone would have really bashed it up if that was the case. I would still have problems with it but it's not related to PC or console.

Casual = normal. Even in gaming the term casual refers to normal people who don't game as a hobby but only as a way to social, interact with their family, pass some time, or any other utilitarian function such as exercising to Wii fit.MrSelf-Destruct

Normal is normal. "Casual" is how developers refer to normal people so they can feel like they're above normal people.

If a developer says "I don't make games for normal people", you immediately see the obvious: He makes games for geeks. If he says "I don't make games for casuals", some of you think "Well, he doesn't make games for idiots. That's great!"

And as far as kids go, dude, they're not even core gaming audience. Most gamers are in their 20's and early 30's. Kids don't push the industry MrSelf-Destruct

And you don't see how that's an apocalyptic scenario? Those people in their 20s and 30s are driving the industry BECAUSE they started to play video games when they were kids.

In the name of common sense and everything that is logical, WHO IS GOING TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES IN 20 YEARS IF KIDS ARE NOT THE DRIVING FROCE BEHIND THE INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW? Have YOU ever met anyone who started playin games in their 20s? How many of those do you know? Two? As opposed to how many who started playing when they were 8? Hundreds?

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

What are you talking about? Every medium has a casual and a core audience, game developers didn't come along and make it up.

LordQuorthon

Name 10.

[QUOTE="Mazoch"]

That's a very good point. I think you're correct when you talk about it 'feeling like' a PC Game. So my question (not necessarily to you specifically) would be: Do you think the PC Gaming community as a whole would have embarrassed Crysis two if it had better ingame settings and options, didn't have the silly 'press to start' screen and DX11 out of the box?

Espada12

I don't think anyone would have really bashed it up if that was the case. I would still have problems with it but it's not related to PC or console.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] Casual = normal. Even in gaming the term casual refers to normal people who don't game as a hobby but only as a way to social, interact with their family, pass some time, or any other utilitarian function such as exercising to Wii fit.LordQuorthon

Normal is normal. "Casual" is how developers refer to normal people so they can feel like they're above normal people.

If a developer says "I don't make games for normal people", you immediately see the obvious: He makes games for geeks. If he says "I don't make games for casuals", some of you think "Well, he doesn't make games for idiots. That's great!"

And as far as kids go, dude, they're not even core gaming audience. Most gamers are in their 20's and early 30's. Kids don't push the industry MrSelf-Destruct

And you don't see how that's an apocalyptic scenario? Those people in their 20s and 30s are driving the industry BECAUSE they started to play video games when they were kids.

In the name of common sense and everything that is logical, WHO IS GOING TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES IN 20 YEARS IF KIDS ARE NOT THE DRIVING FROCE BEHIND THE INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW? Have YOU ever met anyone who started playin games in their 20s? How many of those do you know? Two? As opposed to how many who started playing when they were 8? Hundreds?

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"]

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] Casual = normal. Even in gaming the term casual refers to normal people who don't game as a hobby but only as a way to social, interact with their family, pass some time, or any other utilitarian function such as exercising to Wii fit.MrSelf-Destruct

Normal is normal. "Casual" is how developers refer to normal people so they can feel like they're above normal people.

If a developer says "I don't make games for normal people", you immediately see the obvious: He makes games for geeks. If he says "I don't make games for casuals", some of you think "Well, he doesn't make games for idiots. That's great!"

And as far as kids go, dude, they're not even core gaming audience. Most gamers are in their 20's and early 30's. Kids don't push the industry MrSelf-Destruct

And you don't see how that's an apocalyptic scenario? Those people in their 20s and 30s are driving the industry BECAUSE they started to play video games when they were kids.

In the name of common sense and everything that is logical, WHO IS GOING TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES IN 20 YEARS IF KIDS ARE NOT THE DRIVING FROCE BEHIND THE INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW? Have YOU ever met anyone who started playin games in their 20s? How many of those do you know? Two? As opposed to how many who started playing when they were 8? Hundreds?

Movies.MrSelf-Destruct

No. You have your average Michael Bay movies and you have independent cinema. The difference between those is who makes them and the budget behind them, distribution, and a little bit of luck, if you will. Slumdog Millionare didn't have the profile of a blockbuster, the big names, the special effects, but it clicked with everyone and became a hit, even though it was supposed to be a HARDCORE FILM FOR HARDCORE CINEMA ENTHUSIASTS.

Now that foreign movies are having better distribution, the line between Hollywood's (whose quality is in decline) blockbusters and movies from other countries is becoming way blurrier.

Books.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE BOOK READER because I read Schopenhauer as opposed to TEH CASUAL teen who reads Twilight?

Music.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE MUSIC LISTENER because I like obscure Metal bands, as opposed to most of you guys in System Wars who seem to love mainstream hip hop?

Painting. Sculpture.MrSelf-Destruct

Art. Not entertainment. You cannot judge art and entertainment by the same standards. The dude who sells his paintings for dirt cheap at the park may become huge one day. His paintings will have the exact same quality. Will he become a HARDCORE ARTIST who paints pictures FOR PEOPLE WITH HARDCORE ARTISTIC TASTE once and if he makes it?

Oh no! If Crytek says it then it must be true! :oSecret-Face

By your logic gaming in general will die in the next 20 years. btw developers didn't invent the word casual. Its a real english word with a real definition. MrSelf-Destruct

That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why you don't get it. You may not agree, but I've been extremely candid about it.

IF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY DOES NOT CATER TO KIDS NOW, WE WON'T HAVE GAMERS IN 20 YEARS.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not even trying to hide it. Why do you act as if I'm trying to hide it? I AM SAYING IT.

Ok, but that's true for all platforms.

I don't see why you're just attacking PC gamers here.

Get rid of big budget exclusives - most of them suck anyways and typically only please the console crowd. Unless you're smart like Blizzard or Valve.KHAndAnime

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] By your logic gaming in general will die in the next 20 years. btw developers didn't invent the word casual. Its a real english word with a real definition. LordQuorthon

That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why you don't get it. You may not agree, but I've been extremely candid about it.

IF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY DOES NOT CATER TO KIDS NOW, WE WON'T HAVE GAMERS IN 20 YEARS.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not even trying to hide it. Why do you act as if I'm trying to hide it? I AM SAYING IT.

Lolwut, gaming has never been more mainstream than it is now and many people are catering to all audiences. The Core market will never go away, so core games will never go away.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]Movies.LordQuorthon

No. You have your average Michael Bay movies and you have independent cinema. The difference between those is who makes them and the budget behind them, distribution, and a little bit of luck, if you will. Slumdog Millionare didn't have the profile of a blockbuster, the big names, the special effects, but it clicked with everyone and became a hit, even though it was supposed to be a HARDCORE FILM FOR HARDCORE CINEMA ENTHUSIASTS.

Now that foreign movies are having better distribution, the line between Hollywood's (whose quality is in decline) blockbusters and movies from other countries is becoming way blurrier.

Books.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE BOOK READER because I read Schopenhauer as opposed to TEH CASUAL teen who reads Twilight?

Music.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE MUSIC LISTENER because I like obscure Metal bands, as opposed to most of you guys in System Wars who seem to love mainstream hip hop?

Painting. Sculpture.MrSelf-Destruct

Art. Not entertainment. You cannot judge art and entertainment by the same standards. The dude who sells his paintings for dirt cheap at the park may become huge one day. His paintings will have the exact same quality. Will he become a HARDCORE ARTIST who paints pictures FOR PEOPLE WITH HARDCORE ARTISTIC TASTE once and if he makes it?

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]Movies.LordQuorthon

No. You have your average Michael Bay movies and you have independent cinema. The difference between those is who makes them and the budget behind them, distribution, and a little bit of luck, if you will. Slumdog Millionare didn't have the profile of a blockbuster, the big names, the special effects, but it clicked with everyone and became a hit, even though it was supposed to be a HARDCORE FILM FOR HARDCORE CINEMA ENTHUSIASTS.

Now that foreign movies are having better distribution, the line between Hollywood's (whose quality is in decline) blockbusters and movies from other countries is becoming way blurrier.

Since when does core equate to not sucessful? A core genre movie is a film with a deep plot that hits all the right notes with devout fans of the genre.

You could watch transformers with the sound muted and still get the plot.

Books.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE BOOK READER because I read Schopenhauer as opposed to TEH CASUAL teen who reads Twilight?

Yes.

Music.MrSelf-Destruct

Am I a HARDCORE MUSIC LISTENER because I like obscure Metal bands, as opposed to most of you guys in System Wars who seem to love mainstream hip hop?

You're a core metal fan, yes.

Painting. Sculpture.MrSelf-Destruct

Art. Not entertainment. You cannot judge art and entertainment by the same standards. The dude who sells his paintings for dirt cheap at the park may become huge one day. His paintings will have the exact same quality. Will he become a HARDCORE ARTIST who paints pictures FOR PEOPLE WITH HARDCORE ARTISTIC TASTE once and if he makes it?

There's a reason "art/entertainment" is the same section in the paper.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] By your logic gaming in general will die in the next 20 years. btw developers didn't invent the word casual. Its a real english word with a real definition. LordQuorthon

That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why you don't get it. You may not agree, but I've been extremely candid about it.

IF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY DOES NOT CATER TO KIDS NOW, WE WON'T HAVE GAMERS IN 20 YEARS.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm not even trying to hide it. Why do you act as if I'm trying to hide it? I AM SAYING IT.

What? Art doesn't count? You said name 10 mediums. Art is medium. And the fact that you deny the difference in movies, music, and books that are enjoyed by a small group and the ones that offer mass appeal just proves how far you are reaching to make an argument. David Lynch makes movies that he KNOWS aren't going to appeal to a larger audience. They typically only have a small number of shows in small venues and go straight to DVD. People who publish books like Twilight and Harry Potter are catering to an audience that doesn't typically read at all; a CASUAL reading audience. There are many underground bands that still play and release great music despite the fact that Lil Wayne and Lady Gaga are pushing them out of the limelight and further lessening their chances of ever hitting mainstream. If you don't understand any of that then there's really nothing else to say. MrSelf-Destruct

So, if a lady buys some DAW software, a bunch of microphones and makes something indistinguishable from Lady Gaga's music and, yet, she doesn't really make it and only manages to find a niche audience, is she a CASUAL musician or a HARDCORE musician with a HARDCORE AUDIENCE?

Exclusives are only a good idea if your making a game to sell hardware. If nvidia or ATI wanted to send some cash someones way I'm sure they could make it worth their while and increase video card sales. The same is true with exclusives to sell console hardware but as an independent 3rd party developer exclusives just don't make sense.Sir_Graham

So what the hell does that have to do with just tablets and PCs? That covers ALL of gaming. Why argue that tablets are going to kill PC gaming when you could just say gaming is dying? MrSelf-Destruct

I am saying that video games and, in this case, PC games, should go to the hardware that normal people use. If you have an entire generation of kids (as well as normal people) growing up in a world where desktop PCs mean squat to them in their daily life and you make video games, you HAVE TO MAKE GAMES FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS IN THE LONG RUN.

You CANNOT EXPECT THEM to magically get interested in video games and chase you and your ego by buying hardware they will not be using for anything else.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] What? Art doesn't count? You said name 10 mediums. Art is medium. And the fact that you deny the difference in movies, music, and books that are enjoyed by a small group and the ones that offer mass appeal just proves how far you are reaching to make an argument. David Lynch makes movies that he KNOWS aren't going to appeal to a larger audience. They typically only have a small number of shows in small venues and go straight to DVD. People who publish books like Twilight and Harry Potter are catering to an audience that doesn't typically read at all; a CASUAL reading audience. There are many underground bands that still play and release great music despite the fact that Lil Wayne and Lady Gaga are pushing them out of the limelight and further lessening their chances of ever hitting mainstream. If you don't understand any of that then there's really nothing else to say. LordQuorthon

So, if a lady buys some DAW software, a bunch of microphones and makes something indistinguishable from Lady Gaga's music and, yet, she doesn't really make it and only manages to find a niche audience, is she a CASUAL musician or a HARDCORE musician with a HARDCORE AUDIENCE?

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]So what the hell does that have to do with just tablets and PCs? That covers ALL of gaming. Why argue that tablets are going to kill PC gaming when you could just say gaming is dying? LordQuorthon

I am saying that video games and, in this case, PC games, should go to the hardware that normal people use. If you have an entire generation of kids (as well as normal people) growing up in a world where desktop PCs mean squat to them in their daily life and you make video games, you HAVE TO MAKE GAMES FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS IN THE LONG RUN.

You CANNOT EXPECT THEM to magically get interested in video games and chase you and your ego by buying hardware they will not be using for anything else.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]So what the hell does that have to do with just tablets and PCs? That covers ALL of gaming. Why argue that tablets are going to kill PC gaming when you could just say gaming is dying? LordQuorthon

I am saying that video games and, in this case, PC games, should go to the hardware that normal people use. If you have an entire generation of kids (as well as normal people) growing up in a world where desktop PCs mean squat to them in their daily life and you make video games, you HAVE TO MAKE GAMES FOR THEM IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN BUSINESS IN THE LONG RUN.

You CANNOT EXPECT THEM to magically get interested in video games and chase you and your ego by buying hardware they will not be using for anything else.

The average PC gamer is over 30. Why are we catering to kids again? Seriously your arguments are baseless and wrong.

Someone who just goes out and buys equipment for the hell of making a little music is a casual musician. They aren't going to reach any audience really. In order to reach an audience she's going to have to put herself out there and make music a hobby and a way of life which would in turn make her a core musician. Then its up to the sort of appeal her music has whether or not she will cater to a core or casual audience. ;) MrSelf-Destruct

I never said she didn't want to find an audience. I said she simply didn't find one.

And now Lady Gaga is a HARDCORE musician because she makes music that appeals to CASUALS? Nice...

The average PC gamer is over 30. Why are we catering to kids again? Seriously your arguments are baseless and wrong.

Espada12

Because mankind is not even close to finding the secret to immortality...

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you guys don't understand something so incredibly simple.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]Someone who just goes out and buys equipment for the hell of making a little music is a casual musician. They aren't going to reach any audience really. In order to reach an audience she's going to have to put herself out there and make music a hobby and a way of life which would in turn make her a core musician. Then its up to the sort of appeal her music has whether or not she will cater to a core or casual audience. ;) LordQuorthon

I never said she didn't want to find an audience. I said she simply didn't find one.

And now Lady Gaga is a HARDCORE musician because she makes music that appeals to CASUALS? Nice...

Of course Lady Gaga is a core musician. Its her lifestyle. Its what she's all about. The kind of music she makes doesn't change how deeply involves she is in making it. And if the lady in your hypothetical never found an audience but was avidly making music as a hobby and a main interest then she is most definitely a core musician herself. Keep reaching there, buddy.... MrSelf-Destruct

So, you can be a HARDCORE MUSICIAN, regardless of whether you make HARDCORE MUSIC or CASUAL MUSIC?

Again, nice...

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

The average PC gamer is over 30. Why are we catering to kids again? Seriously your arguments are baseless and wrong.

LordQuorthon

Because mankind is not even close to finding the secret to immortality...

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you guys don't understand something so incredibly simple.

They do cater to those kids. They cater to those kids and all the adults who only game every now and again with no real technical preference. The thing is, some of those people are going to get hooked, and once they're hooked they're going to want more. As long as they want more there will be someone in the industry to give it to them and it won't be on a freaking iPad. MrSelf-Destruct

So, the process goes like this:

1) Kid plays Farmville on Facebook.

2) Kids likes Farmville.

3) ???

4) KID GROWS UP AND SPENDS 400 DOLLARS ON A CONSOLE/900 DOLLARS ON A POWERFUL PC.

You do understand that's not how the real world works, right?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

The average PC gamer is over 30. Why are we catering to kids again? Seriously your arguments are baseless and wrong.

LordQuorthon

Because mankind is not even close to finding the secret to immortality...

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you guys don't understand something so incredibly simple.

As long as there's a market for big games, there will always be big games. I'm appalled you cannot understand that. These kids also play said big games why would they stop?

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] Of course Lady Gaga is a core musician. Its her lifestyle. Its what she's all about. The kind of music she makes doesn't change how deeply involves she is in making it. And if the lady in your hypothetical never found an audience but was avidly making music as a hobby and a main interest then she is most definitely a core musician herself. Keep reaching there, buddy.... LordQuorthon

So, you can be a HARDCORE MUSICIAN, regardless of whether you make HARDCORE MUSIC or CASUAL MUSIC?

Again, nice...

We could not have created a game with the scope, scale, and multiplayer features of Crysis 2 if it were a PC-only titleCrytek

-.-

The PC market just does not support that cost of development, but going multi-platform does.Crytek

CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

The decision to go multi-platform has allowed us to bring a better game to everyone, which has been our goal all alongCrytek

Crysis 91

Crysis 2 86 average based on all 3 systems

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]They do cater to those kids. They cater to those kids and all the adults who only game every now and again with no real technical preference. The thing is, some of those people are going to get hooked, and once they're hooked they're going to want more. As long as they want more there will be someone in the industry to give it to them and it won't be on a freaking iPad. LordQuorthon

So, the process goes like this:

1) Kid plays Farmville on Facebook.

2) Kids likes Farmville.

3) ???

4) KID GROWS UP AND SPENDS 400 DOLLARS ON A CONSOLE/900 DOLLARS ON A POWERFUL PC.

You do understand that's not how the real world works, right?

any kid who develops a love for high-end gaming is likely to turn to PC gaming when they are old enough to afford such a hobby. MrSelf-Destruct

Again, how do you go from Farmville to developing a love for high-end gaming? Magic? Lvl 3 Elf Wizard spell?

You're kidding, right? You think kids are just playing Farmville? :lol: This debate is over. If you have to go to such ridiculous lengths to make an argument there's no point in even continuing. MrSelf-Destruct

So, what else are they playing, champ? There's Mario and...

And?

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]any kid who develops a love for high-end gaming is likely to turn to PC gaming when they are old enough to afford such a hobby. LordQuorthon

Again, how do you go from Farmville to developing a love for high-end gaming? Magic? Lvl 3 Elf Wizard spell?

Ah yes and finally all has been revealed. No point in arguing with you.

Ok, but that's true for all platforms.

I don't see why you're just attacking PC gamers here.

Raymundo_Manuel

The Witcher 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Starcraft II, and Diablo III (no it's NOT confirmed for consoles)..... umm herp derp? Jesus people are really reaching now.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] You're kidding, right? You think kids are just playing Farmville? :lol: This debate is over. If you have to go to such ridiculous lengths to make an argument there's no point in even continuing. LordQuorthon

So, what else are they playing, champ? There's Mario and...

And?

Not surprisng. EA and Crytek said many years ago that they're disappointed with Crysis's sales although it did pretty well (around 3m). No wonder they decided to make Crysis 2 for PC as well as consoles.

So, the process goes like this:

1) Kid plays Farmville on Facebook.

2) Kids likes Farmville.

3) ???

4) KID GROWS UP AND SPENDS 400 DOLLARS ON A CONSOLE/900 DOLLARS ON A POWERFUL PC.

You do understand that's not how the real world works, right?

LordQuorthon

He does, something that obviously eludes you, considering I've been playing Starcraft ever since I was 6.

The Witcher 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Starcraft II, and Diablo III (no it's NOT confirmed for consoles)..... umm herp derp? Jesus people are really reaching now.

oldkingallant

So Crysis selling 2-3 million isn't enough for them?lettuceman44

CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]So Crysis selling 2-3 million isn't enough for them?devious742

CEO and President of game developer Crytek said Crysis cost 15 million Euros (22 million USD) to develop during a panel about the future of gaming graphics at the Games Convention Developers Conference in Leipzig, Germany. Yet despite the cost, Yerli maintained the game was profitable, adding, "if it wasn't profitable I wouldn't be able to stand here."

Well, commercially, we had hopes that were not met. But the real expectations were actually met. As a developer we made a profit, so we're happy. Critically, we achieved goals.

Two Years Later...

http://www.zuse.hessen.de/mm/Konrad_Zuse_Kongress_Yerli_Final.pdf

Not surprisng. EA and Crytek said many years ago that they're disappointed with Crysis's sales although it did pretty well (around 3m). No wonder they decided to make Crysis 2 for PC as well as consoles.

Zensword