Dice Technical director.Why the frostbite engine will never come to the WiiU.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="posersRus84"] wtf is you think streaming is?posersRus84

PPE @3.2Ghz ~= PowerPC G5 @ 1.6Ghz indicates otherwise and both has 128bit SIMD units.

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

LOL... Refer to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

"Black Ops 2 on Wii U appears to have much in common with the Xbox 360 version including a native 880x720 resolution with 2x MSAA."

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Xbox 360 and PS3's stream compute focuses on 128 register data storage model. ronvalencia

PPE @3.2Ghz ~= PowerPC G5 @ 1.6Ghz indicates otherwise and both has 128bit SIMD units.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] multiple cores?posersRus84

Who cares about multiple cores when Espresso's SIMD unit is only 64bits wide.

AMD K8 3200+ is clocked faster than 1.24Ghz i.e. 2.0Ghz. For 64bit data compute, 1.24 Ghz x 3 cores = 3.72Ghz effective.

For 128bit FADD compute with Espresso, it's down to 1.86Ghz effective i.e. it's slower AMD K8 Athlon 3200+.

Single core AMD Jaguar @ 2.0Ghz with it's full 128bit SIMD units can rival the entire IBM Espresso.

That's not true, the CPU has been a problem in porting for several consoles that chose a complex CPU system.

Saturn, PS2, PS3 for example. In fact the CPU has been the biggest problem for the PS3 and imo is what cost it the gen early on, porting aside, it led to slow development.

wiiu has more memory should of had higher resolution textures automatically

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Who cares about multiple cores when Espresso's SIMD unit is only 64bits wide.

AMD K8 3200+ is clocked faster than 1.24Ghz i.e. 2.0Ghz. For 64bit data compute, 1.24 Ghz x 3 cores = 3.72Ghz effective.

For 128bit FADD compute with Espresso, it's down to 1.86Ghz effective i.e. it's slower AMD K8 Athlon 3200+.

Single core AMD Jaguar @ 2.0Ghz with it's full 128bit SIMD units can rival the entire IBM Espresso.

HalcyonScarlet

That's not true, the CPU has been a problem in porting for several consoles that chose a complex CPU system.

Saturn, PS2, PS3 for example. In fact the CPU has been the biggest problem for the PS3 and imo is what cost it the gen early on, porting aside, it led to slow development.

fooled by fools

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="posersRus84"] 360/ps3 res is even lower posersRus84

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

"All of this means that the new version gets the same 880x720 native resolution, with the same sharp upscaling filter employed on the Xbox 360 release"

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] 360 and ps3 cpu's are weaker.posersRus84

PPE @3.2Ghz ~= PowerPC G5 @ 1.6Ghz indicates otherwise and both has 128bit SIMD units.

Where's your benchmarks?

AMD K8 will lose on dot product calculations.

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Xbox 360 has native 880x720 resolution with better frame rates.ronvalencia

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

"All of this means that the new version gets the same 880x720 native resolution, with the same sharp upscaling filter employed on the Xbox 360 release"

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

PPE @3.2Ghz ~= PowerPC G5 @ 1.6Ghz indicates otherwise and both has 128bit SIMD units.

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="posersRus84"] PPE about equal to 1 ghz k8 posersRus84

wiiu not having higher res textures than ps3/360 and it has more vram automatically tells me they didnt optimize for shit on wiiu

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] nope 700xposersRus84

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

"All of this means that the new version gets the same 880x720 native resolution, with the same sharp upscaling filter employed on the Xbox 360 release"

wiiu not having higher res textures than ps3/360 and it has more vram automatically tells me they didnt optimize for shit on wiiu

posersRus84

It's not NFS-MW Wii U type effort and it's still EA (via Criterion).

Criterion did a good job on NFS-MW Wii U.

[QUOTE="posersRus84"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

According to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-black-ops-2-wii-u-face-off

"All of this means that the new version gets the same 880x720 native resolution, with the same sharp upscaling filter employed on the Xbox 360 release"

ronvalencia

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] I've been gaming long enough to know never once has cpu been a issue with any porting of a game to a console. it's all bs all the issues were memory related.posersRus84

That's not true, the CPU has been a problem in porting for several consoles that chose a complex CPU system.

Saturn, PS2, PS3 for example. In fact the CPU has been the biggest problem for the PS3 and imo is what cost it the gen early on, porting aside, it led to slow development.

Not true, porting a game written for a complex CPU to something else would require the code to be rewriten or emulated. When you get a multi core CPU, it doesn't automatically distribute code here and there, it has to be done manually. That's why 3rd parties don't make use of the CELL, and why the PS3 hasn't been the lead platform.

If a developer wanted to port a PS3 exclusive that makes proper use of the CELL to the 360, the game code would probably have to be rewritten, especially since some of the stuff the CELL is used for is compensating for the RSX.

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

That's not true, the CPU has been a problem in porting for several consoles that chose a complex CPU system.

Saturn, PS2, PS3 for example. In fact the CPU has been the biggest problem for the PS3 and imo is what cost it the gen early on, porting aside, it led to slow development.

HalcyonScarlet

Not true, porting a game written for a complex CPU to something else would require the code to be rewriten or emulated. When you get a multi core CPU, it doesn't automatically distribute code here and there, it has to be done manually. That's why 3rd parties don't make use of the CELL, and why the PS3 hasn't been the lead platform.

If a developer wanted to port a PS3 exclusive that makes proper use of the CELL to the 360, the game code would probably have to be rewritten.

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] wrong always been memory like quake 2 on ps1/n64.posersRus84

Not true, porting a game written for a complex CPU to something else would require the code to be rewriten or emulated. When you get a multi core CPU, it doesn't automatically distribute code here and there, it has to be done manually. That's why 3rd parties don't make use of the CELL, and why the PS3 hasn't been the lead platform.

If a developer wanted to port a PS3 exclusive that makes proper use of the CELL to the 360, the game code would probably have to be rewritten.

I didn't say powerful, I said complex.

OMG resident evil code veronica superior on dreamcast

omg 4x4 evolution superior on dreamcast

omg resident evil superior on ps1

it's always been something other THAN CPU BEING TOO SLOW HISTORY SHOWS U THIS.

OMG resident evil code veronica superior on dreamcast

omg 4x4 evolution superior on dreamcast

 

omg resident evil superior on ps1

 

it's always been something other THAN CPU ISSUE HISTORY SHOWS U THIS.

posersRus84

But you're specifically using examples and systems where the CPU wasn't the problem, yet i've given you other solid examples of systems in which the CPU was the problem. But it was you that said "never once has cpu been a issue with any porting of a game to a console".

Did I misunderstand what you meant?

OMG resident evil code veronica superior on dreamcast

omg 4x4 evolution superior on dreamcast

 

omg resident evil superior on ps1

 

it's always been something other THAN CPU BEING TOO SLOW HISTORY SHOWS U THIS.

posersRus84

[QUOTE="posersRus84"][QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

That's not true, the CPU has been a problem in porting for several consoles that chose a complex CPU system.

Saturn, PS2, PS3 for example. In fact the CPU has been the biggest problem for the PS3 and imo is what cost it the gen early on, porting aside, it led to slow development.

HalcyonScarlet

Not true, porting a game written for a complex CPU to something else would require the code to be rewriten or emulated. When you get a multi core CPU, it doesn't automatically distribute code here and there, it has to be done manually. That's why 3rd parties don't make use of the CELL, and why the PS3 hasn't been the lead platform.

If a developer wanted to port a PS3 exclusive that makes proper use of the CELL to the 360, the game code would probably have to be rewritten, especially since some of the stuff the CELL is used for is compensating for the RSX.

3rd parties has to use CELL.

From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

------------------------ "I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"

1) Two ppu/vmx units There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8. Post processing 360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing 360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

Crysis 2 on Geforce 7800 GTX (slide show)

Crysis 2 on Radeon X1950 Pro (on par with Xbox 360)

[QUOTE="HalcyonScarlet"]

[QUOTE="posersRus84"] wrong always been memory like quake 2 on ps1/n64.ronvalencia

Not true, porting a game written for a complex CPU to something else would require the code to be rewriten or emulated. When you get a multi core CPU, it doesn't automatically distribute code here and there, it has to be done manually. That's why 3rd parties don't make use of the CELL, and why the PS3 hasn't been the lead platform.

If a developer wanted to port a PS3 exclusive that makes proper use of the CELL to the 360, the game code would probably have to be rewritten, especially since some of the stuff the CELL is used for is compensating for the RSX.

3rd parties has to use CELL.

From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

------------------------ "I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"

1) Two ppu/vmx units There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8. Post processing 360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing 360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

 

 

Crysis 2 on Geforce 7800 GTX (slide show)

Crysis 2 on Radeon X1950 Pro (on par with Xbox 360)

3rd parties seem use it to compensate more than take advantage of it. I meant they don't go out of their way to use it more than they have to.

As I said months ago, EA....teh U is being Dreamcasted. :?

My most anticipated games are Battlefield 4 and Mass Effect 4.

And wii u is probably missing both (atleast battlefield 4). Wii U is not doing well.

My most anticipated games are Battlefield 4 and Mass Effect 4.

And wii u is probably missing both (atleast battlefield 4). Wii U is not doing well.

Nohtnym

nintendo needs a new console within the next 2 years

As I said months ago, EA....teh U is being Dreamcasted. :?

SecretPolice

Mass Effect 3

Need for Speed: Most Wanted (Criterion)

Madden 13

What Dreamcast got from EA (since launch): *crickets chirp* Literally NOTHING!

nintendo needs a new console within the next 2 years

AD216

Different engines, different requirements. Easy. The cryengine may require more graphical performance and the frostbite engine may require more computational power from the cpu.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

As I said months ago, EA....teh U is being Dreamcasted. :?

nintendoboy16

Mass Effect 3

Need for Speed: Most Wanted (Criterion)

Madden 13

What Dreamcast got from EA (since launch): *crickets chirp* Literally NOTHING!

nintendo needs a new console within the next 2 years

AD216

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="AD216"]

nintendo needs a new console within the next 2 years

AD216

Besides, it's still too damn early to dub the system dead and to say it will have "LITERALLY no third party support" (which implies none at all) is a stretch everyone in System Wars just loves to pull in order to make things look worse than they really are. Bayonetta 2 (though rescued by Nintendo, is still SEGA's IP's and is still watching over the project as evidence to this) hasn't even released for f*** sake.

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

As I said months ago, EA....teh U is being Dreamcasted. :?

nintendoboy16

Mass Effect 3

Need for Speed: Most Wanted (Criterion)

Madden 13

What Dreamcast got from EA (since launch): *crickets chirp* Literally NOTHING!

nintendo needs a new console within the next 2 years

AD216

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

If they got it running on 360 and PS3 I really don't see what the issue isvashkey

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

Quad4Life

Guess the Wii U is doomed to have constant mario games and reboots.Rattlesnake_8

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

nintendoboy16

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Marvel vs Capcom
• Virtua Fighter 3
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

Quad4Life

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"] What difference does that make? Yes, there are a good amount of people who praise the Dreamcast, but there are others that also consider the Dreamcast crap.

nintendoboy16

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

nintendoboy16

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

 

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

Quad4Life

[QUOTE="vashkey"]If they got it running on 360 and PS3 I really don't see what the issue isMFDOOM1983

PS4 has weaker CPU than the PS3.

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

 

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

Quad4Life

Had the Dreamcast a DVD player to avoid being taken out by Sony the big 3 would be Sony/MS/Sega. Nintendo would have been taken out.

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

no-scope-AK47

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]A launch can be considered good, yet the system can still get flanked in the long run.

nintendoboy16

Had the Dreamcast a DVD player to avoid being taken out by Sony the big 3 would be Sony/MS/Sega. Nintendo would have been taken out.

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"] The system never had a short supply of good 1st and 3rd party games (something Nintendo sucks at obtaining)

Had the Dreamcast a DVD player to avoid being taken out by Sony the big 3 would be Sony/MS/Sega. Nintendo would have been taken out.Quad4Life

What's going to Dreamcast Wii U is lack of power.

I hate to break it to you, but with those profits in the bank, Nintendo is not letting that happen.

Doesn't matter if the PS2 had DVD player support, third party support for Dreamcast still died.

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

Dreamcast was actually considered a good system, the Wii U is not a good system.

Quad4Life

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Marvel vs Capcom
• Virtua Fighter 3
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer

[QUOTE="Quad4Life"]

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"] What difference does that make? Yes, there are a good amount of people who praise the Dreamcast, but there are others that also consider the Dreamcast crap.

I_can_haz

So much crap, yeah. It's whole launch line up is better than anything the Wii U can/will pull off in its lifetime.

• Sonic Adventure
• Marvel vs Capcom
• Virtua Fighter 3
• Dead Or Alive
• Crazy Taxi
• Soulcalibur
• Power Stone
• Aerowings
• AirForce Delta
• Blue Stinger
• Expendable
• Flag to Flag
• The House of the Dead 2
• Hydro Thunder
• Monaco Grand Prix
• Mortal Kombat Gold
• NFL 2K
• NFL Blitz 2000
• Pen Pen TriIcelon
• Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
• TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
• Tokyo Xtreme Racer