So what's the deal? Are the MGS4 reviews BS or not? :|NAPK1NS
Complete BS.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="primetime2121"][QUOTE="Zeliard9"]Andrew Pfister of 1UP's various posts on this matter:
On the MGS4 review:
[quote="skip"]this is 100% false. there is no official review of MGS4 in the Gears cover of EGM.Zeliard9
there isn't a review of it, just a preview-styl e roundtable limited to the first act that's in the Review Wrap-Up section.
there's a story behind this that jeremy will blog about when the release comes closer.
(the three reviewers, btw, are jeremy, myself, and matt leone -- our reviews will appear in the next issue.)skip
This is fake. We didn't review MGS4 in the Gears issue of EGM, we're reviewing it next issue due to circumstances beyond our control. The 3 reviewers are Jeremy Parish, Matt Leone, and myself.skip
On the rest of the stuff in the OP:
I left my issue at the office, but the rest of that looks about right.skip
that Lost Planet score looks out of place, too. now that I look at it.skip
but NG did score A, A-, A-....it is AAA
I think we can safely say the NG scores are 100% legit, since skip would have pointed that out immediately if it wasn't. He only pointed out Lost Planet Colonies' scores being sketchy, which is the second-to-last review score posted, meaning he clearly read through the entire thing.
NG 2..game of the summer ??
The TC did say to PM him if you wanted to see the scans. I just PMed him and saw the truth, and Ouch indeed. I'm going to bed now. Oh man.
NG2 = Game of the Month > MGS4
MGS4 is a movie with brief videogame sequences.L1qu1dSword
original post
It's that time again, folks--time for my (annual? monthly?) defense of the Metal Gear Solid games, a series that for some reason or other is under constant attack here at SW (it's alright, though, defending it is fun :) ). A word of caution: the following post contains spoilers of various MGS games, so please refrain from reading on if you wish to avoid them.
In previous posts, I defended the series' system-selling power and playability.
In my defense of MGS's gameplay, I argued that the series doesn't depend on its cutscenes alone--it also has great gameplay. But this time I'm not going to shy away from the issue of cutscenes, which is a long-standing criticism of the series, and has led many to call it "Movie Gear Solid."
To quote a recent post on this issue:
The Metal Gear Solid series sucks, why do people hype MGS4 up so much? It's like 2 hours of cutscenes for every 30 seconds of gameplay, it's not fun at all.anonymous poster
The Quality of the Metal Gear Solid Series' Cutscenes
Why defend the series' cutscenes? Well, for one, they feature top-notch cinematic direction virtually unparalleled in the videogame medium. I could ramble on about the attention to filters, depth of field, camera placement and movement, mise en scene, pacing, color, lighting, and so on, but I'll just let the cutscenes speak for themselves:
The Death of Grey Fox
Opening Movie of Metal Gear Solid 2
All of this is capped off by the series' excellent voice acting and memorable scores by composer Harry Gregson Williams.
The cutscenes of Metal Gear Solid have a certain captivating quality. Series director Hideo Kojima recalls that at E3 1997 when the first Metal Gear Solid trailer was unveiled, "the same people that were there [watching the trailer] in the morning at E3 were there in the evening--they were just watching it, all day long." source
MGS's cutscenes have captured some of the defining moments in the series. Who can forget the afore-linked death of Grey Fox in the original Metal Gear Solid, or the beautifully directed sequence depicting the death of the Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, or the first time they encountered Psycho Mantis? It's no wonder the Metal Gear series is famous for its storytelling--and cutscene direction plays an integral role in how a story unfolds.
The Impact of the MGS Series' Cutscenes
Many critics of the series' cutscenes also fail to realize that the Metal Gear series didn't just help create the stealth genre, but it also helped push cutscene direction in videogames to a whole new level with its 3-D debut on the Playstation. Game journalist Anatole Brown says that "it was basically the movie-like presentation of Metal Gear Solid that really took people aback." source
Metal Gear Solid was a revolutionary game in part because many people had never seen this level of cinematic direction in a game before.
The quality of Metal Gear Solid's cutscenes inspired fans and future game designers alike. Patrice Desilets, the Creative Director for Assassin's Creed, said on a Kojima Productions podcast that the first time he came across Psycho Mantis while playing MGS, he stood up alone in his room and gave Kojima a standing ovation. source
People who enjoy great cinematic direction in games today should recognize that Metal Gear Solid played an important role in its proliferation and artistic development.
Breaking the Unspoken Rule?
Another approach critics take in attacking the series' cutscenes is to argue that games are meant to played, not watched. A recent poster put it eloquently:
Literature is better geared towards story-telling than videogames, and if you are to tell a story in a videogame, you should do it in-game, as otherwise it is, for all intents and purposes, a movie with lots of gameplay thrown in.anonymous poster
Let's suppose the poster is right in characterizing Metal Gear Solid (or any game featuring cutscenes) a movie with lots of gameplay thrown in. Implicit in his argument is the idea that there is something inherently wrong, or sub-standard, about mixing film with videogames. This is the "unspoken rule" that is often invoked in arguments criticizing MGS's cutscenes.
Yet is this so? Is there really anything wrong with enjoying gameplay and cinema in one package? I would argue no--and most of the six million others who purchased the original Metal Gear Solid would likely argue the same way.
As someone who enjoys gaming and enjoys film, I have no qualms about experiencing the two mediums combined into one. In fact, mixing cinema and gaming is what makes the Metal Gear Solid series distinctive--and its relative heaviness in the cinematic aspect as compared to most other games is not something that worries me, but rather excites me. The fact that both the gameplay and cinematic direction are done so well is a quality of the series, not a defect.
David Hayter, film writer and voice actor for Solid Snake, describes it well: "Kojima's work is entirely visionary in that he doesn't follow the rules of what videogames are supposed to be. And when he takes a game and turns it into a so-called cinematic experience, he doesn't turn it into what a movie should be either. I think he creates a perfect sort of hybrid." source
Former site director for gamespot, Greg Kasavin, reinforces this point in his review of Metal Gear Solid 2: "A lot of Metal Gear Solid 2 is spent watching the story, not actually playing the game. That does open up Metal Gear Solid 2 to some criticism, I suppose. Some would argue that you're supposed to play a game, not just sit there and watch it. Why not just go to the movies or watch TV or something like that? Well, it's because Metal Gear Solid 2 is better than what's playing in the movies or what's on TV." source
If rules were made to be broken, then Metal Gear Solid was made to shatter the unspoken rule that games and cinema should remain separate entities.
The Future of the MGS Series' Cutscenes
And for the next entry in the series, Kojima looks to be holding nothing back in the cutscene department.
The debut trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4: the Guns of the Patriots at TGS 2005 held the industry at a standstill with the series' trademark cinematic flair, graphical impressiveness, and quirky humor:
Metal Gear Solid 4 TGS 2005 Trailer
This time around, users will have the opportunity to trigger "flashback sequences" at certain points during cutscenes, for those who have never played the previous games or series fans who wish to refresh their memory. These flashback sequences will feature the original graphics from the Playstation and Playstation 2 MGS games to mirror the nostalgiac recollection of the game player himself.
Codec sequences will also display cutscenes rather than still images, and players will be able to pause or fast-forward these sequences:
MGS4 Codec Sequence
Metal Gear Solid 4 takes place in a future dystopia where war has become the pillar of the global economy and genetic, informational, and emotional control has placed the world in a choke hold. As such, the game will feature cutscenes with a darker tone than previous iterations, and in keeping with the series' discussion of philosophical issues such as existentialism and meme theory, will raise such problems as the evolution of war and the morality of eugenics.
In short, the cutscenes in MGS4 will include the same unique mix of philosophical discussion, quirky humor, and fantastic action sequences that have defined the series since the beginning.
Metal Gear Solid 4 E3 2006
But fear not, those of you who enjoy tactical espionage action gameplay, for MGS4 will have plenty of that too:
MGS4 2007 Gameplay Demonstration
All in all, the future looks bright: Metal Gear Solid 4 looks to bring the same great combination of compelling cutscenes and thrilling gameplay that series fans have come to expect.
[QUOTE="primetime2121"][QUOTE="Zeliard9"]Andrew Pfister of 1UP's various posts on this matter:
On the MGS4 review:
[quote="skip"]this is 100% false. there is no official review of MGS4 in the Gears cover of EGM.Zeliard9
there isn't a review of it, just a preview-styl e roundtable limited to the first act that's in the Review Wrap-Up section.
there's a story behind this that jeremy will blog about when the release comes closer.
(the three reviewers, btw, are jeremy, myself, and matt leone -- our reviews will appear in the next issue.)skip
This is fake. We didn't review MGS4 in the Gears issue of EGM, we're reviewing it next issue due to circumstances beyond our control. The 3 reviewers are Jeremy Parish, Matt Leone, and myself.skip
On the rest of the stuff in the OP:
I left my issue at the office, but the rest of that looks about right.skip
that Lost Planet score looks out of place, too. now that I look at it.skip
but NG did score A, A-, A-....it is AAA
I think we can safely say the NG scores are 100% legit, since skip would have pointed that out immediately if it wasn't. He only pointed out Lost Planet Colonies' scores being sketchy, which is the second-to-last review score posted, meaning he clearly read through the entire thing.
Ok , I checked the Blog of Andrew Pfister at 1up, There is no mention of the msg 4 review leak being false. Nothing on it confirms this is fake.
link
Is anyone really surprised? I mean honestly, every MGS fan knows that the game is 90% story 10% gameplay. Honestly, really are you getting mad over this? Obviously EGM wasn't cool with scoring a game with 90% gameplay 10% story (NG2) lower than MGS4.
I love MGS, and I want that story, pray that Resistance and KZ2 are really good, because if they are I will put down the cash for a PS3. Until then, 360 does it for me.
My god I'm confused....NAPK1NS
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
why no lock on this thread? it's just confusing people.Dreams-VisionsIt shouldn't be confusing he used the gears of war cover and put in mgs4, and ng2 reviews giving ng2 higher than mgs4. I don't understand why don't people state for the matter of fact, that either 1. This guy switched up half of the reviews names, and messed up on even platform specific details 2.This person is level 1, with 10 posts or 3. He screwed up big time by using june 2008 cover story..
[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....xTHExJUICEx
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
The reason it's confusing people is because apparently only the scores for MGS4 (and possibly Lost Planet) are fake. The same 1UP/EGM editor who said the MGS4 scores are fake said that the rest of it looks legit from what he can recall.
The TC did say to PM him if you wanted to see the scans. I just PMed him and saw the truth, and Ouch indeed. I'm going to bed now. Oh man.
NG2 = Game of the Month > MGS4
ReverseCycology
Your so full of it lol, now go to bed you have plenty of PS3 hating to do tomorrow.
[QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....NAPK1NS
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
Why lie? When I saw the B+ I was shocked! :o
I even added the scores to the MGS4 thread momentarily...
[QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....NAPK1NS
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
Why lie? When I saw the B+ I was shocked! :o
I was surprised to see that too then I saw "more cutscenes then gameplay", then looked for a link didnt see one, then checked to see who posted it which turned out to be a level 1, 5 post user, then went to google and try to confirm it but couldnt. Yep I figured it was a fake pretty quickly.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]why no lock on this thread? it's just confusing people.numba1234It shouldn't be confusing he used the gears of war cover and put in mgs4, and ng2 reviews giving ng2 higher than mgs4. I don't understand why don't people state for the matter of fact, that either 1. This guy switched up half of the reviews names, and messed up on even platform specific details 2.This person is level 1, with 10 posts or 3. He screwed up big time by using june 2008 cover story..
And the thread title is BASED on that. F A I L . L O C K .
Love it how some reviews sound like there isn't a skip button...after the first play through and you know the story, the next time you simply skip the scenes, like most would do.
hardly a con...geez.
if anything, games these days need good storys...longer the better, IMO.
Forensic-Klown
I agree that more games need good stories, but it's a strech when you're talking about MGS-esque cutscenes. There are dozens of games with amazing stories and backgrounds that have them told through the gameplay, not the cutscenes. I enjoy MGS games, but I think it is still a con if it's impossible for a game like MGS4 to tell its story without using a long cutscene.
[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....fuzzysquash
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
Why lie? When I saw the B+ I was shocked! :o
I even added the scores to the MGS4 thread momentarily...
Well the TC did go that extra mile to make it seem legit, I really wish I knew who was truly behind this.
It shouldn't be confusing he used the gears of war cover and put in mgs4, and ng2 reviews giving ng2 higher than mgs4. I don't understand why don't people state for the matter of fact, that either 1. This guy switched up half of the reviews names, and messed up on even platform specific details 2.This person is level 1, with 10 posts or 3. He screwed up big time by using june 2008 cover story..[QUOTE="numba1234"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]why no lock on this thread? it's just confusing people.Dreams-Visions
And the thread title is BASED on that. F A I L . L O C K .
Im actually surprised it hasnt been locked, lems are making a fool of themselves....casey was just in here wasnt he?
[QUOTE="fuzzysquash"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....xTHExJUICEx
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
Why lie? When I saw the B+ I was shocked! :o
I even added the scores to the MGS4 thread momentarily...
Well the TC did go that extra mile to make it seem legit, I really wish I knew who was truly behind this.
Too bad when the real scores come out they will all be some form of "A". :P
[QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="fuzzysquash"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"][QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]My god I'm confused....NAPK1NS
NAPK1NS lol the scores are a fake, the TC just punked more then half of the people in this thread.
Why lie? When I saw the B+ I was shocked! :o
I even added the scores to the MGS4 thread momentarily...
Well the TC did go that extra mile to make it seem legit, I really wish I knew who was truly behind this.
Too bad when the real scores come out they will all be some form of "A". :P
HEY!.....dont jinx it.
[QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.AmyMizunoYeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Yeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.MadExponent
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Films or games that try to push the boundaries of storytelling or direction are rarely "for everyone."
I sat my friends down once (whose favorite movies were the likes of Bad Boys II) to watch the Godfather, and they whined and moaned through the wedding scene and said it was the worst movie ever.
So if someone don't have an eye for artistic direction in games, he or she is probably not going to care much for Metal Gear Solid.
[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Blackification"]So is all of this fake or just the reviews?AmyMizuno
Just MGS4 and LP review is fake I think.
I somehow doubt that Gears 2 will be 15 hours long as well. This is probably an Xbox fanboy making things up.well I certaintly hope it'll be longer. Gears was a bit on the short side...I hope Gears 2 will feel more "epic"
Yeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.MadExponent
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Yea I know opinions vary but I still want to slap the crap out of Jeff for giving one of my favorite games of all time an 8.5 :evil:
[QUOTE="MadExponent"]Yeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.xTHExJUICEx
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Yea I know opinions vary but I still want to slap the crap out of Jeff for giving one of my favorite games of all time an 8.5 :evil:
It wasn't the score so much as the reasons he gave for it.
He said you could bulldoze through the game in 3 hours if you wanted to.
First of all, I think that's false...I don't know many people who could finish MGS that fast, including room for making mistakes.
And secondly, even if it were possible to do so...who judges a game's worth by a speed run?
[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Blackification"]So is all of this fake or just the reviews?fuzzysquash
Just MGS4 and LP review is fake I think.
I somehow doubt that Gears 2 will be 15 hours long as well. This is probably an Xbox fanboy making things up.well I certaintly hope it'll be longer. Gears was a bit on the short side...I hope Gears 2 will feel more "epic"
They also said there is going to be an infamous and project origin preview. I don't see either of those here only banjo.
[QUOTE="MadExponent"]Yeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.fuzzysquash
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Films or games that try to push the boundaries of storytelling or direction are rarely "for everyone."
I sat my friends down once (whose favorite movies were the likes of Bad Boys II) to watch the Godfather, and they whined and moaned through the wedding scene and said it was the worst movie ever.
So if someone don't have an eye for artistic direction in games, he or she is probably not going to care much for Metal Gear Solid.
Well I get where you are coming from, just look at Silent Hill for example. Silent Hill I would stress to say is probably twice as hard as MGS to understand. The big problem with these is that since the masses will either A) not get them, or B) not have the patience to get them, they don't tend to sell well. You can plow through Silent Hill with a vague understanding of what is happening. All the games are laced together in a hard to udnerstand wicked way.
[QUOTE="xTHExJUICEx"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Yeah. I was actually looking forward to the cutscenes. Metal Gear is better than what's playing in the movies.[QUOTE="AmyMizuno"][QUOTE="MadExponent"]Even if it is fake, I'm expecting there to be a buttload of sutscenes.fuzzysquash
True, but its really not for everyone, which gives much creedence to the possibility of some dissapointing reviews.
Yea I know opinions vary but I still want to slap the crap out of Jeff for giving one of my favorite games of all time an 8.5 :evil:
It wasn't the score so much as the reasons he gave for it.
He said you could bulldoze through the game in 3 hours if you wanted to.
First of all, I think that's false...I don't know many people who could finish MGS that fast, including room for making mistakes.
And secondly, even if it were possible to do so...who judges a game's worth by a speed run?
lol I actually just finished reading the review, Ive never facepalmed so much while reading a review.
Well I get where you are coming from, just look at Silent Hill for example. Silent Hill I would stress to say is probably twice as hard as MGS to understand. The big problem with these is that since the masses will either A) not get them, or B) not have the patience to get them, they don't tend to sell well. You can plow through Silent Hill with a vague understanding of what is happening. All the games are laced together in a hard to udnerstand wicked way.
MadExponent
Well, that's interesting...I didn't know that since I've never really gotten into the Silent Hill games. Not a big fan of survival horror :P
lol I actually just finished reading the review, Ive never facepalmed so much while reading a review.
xTHExJUICEx
:lol:
[QUOTE="fuzzysquash"]3 hours? Nah, you can even beat the game in 2 hours. I'm currently writing a FAQ for MGS, and it is true that you could beat the game in a short period of time (big boss rating actually requires this), but why would you want to?It wasn't the score so much as the reasons he gave for it.
He said you could bulldoze through the game in 3 hours if you wanted to.
First of all, I think that's false...I don't know many people who could finish MGS that fast, including room for making mistakes.
And secondly, even if it were possible to do so...who judges a game's worth by a speed run?
AmyMizuno
It was actually common for many of the playstation classics to only be a few hours long. I beat Resident Evil 2 (Leon A) in 2 hours and 3 minutes when I was writing the speed run section of my RE2 FAQ.
Resident Evil Remake in 2 Hours 14 Minutes with Chris and have Jill and Rebecca ALIVE!
[QUOTE="MadExponent"]Well I get where you are coming from, just look at Silent Hill for example. Silent Hill I would stress to say is probably twice as hard as MGS to understand. The big problem with these is that since the masses will either A) not get them, or B) not have the patience to get them, they don't tend to sell well. You can plow through Silent Hill with a vague understanding of what is happening. All the games are laced together in a hard to udnerstand wicked way.
fuzzysquash
Well, that's interesting...I didn't know that since I've never really gotten into the Silent Hill games. Not a big fan of survival horror :P
If you love stories in your games, you're making a mistake in ignoring Silent Hill. :P
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