Games With Bad Gameplay Are Masterpieces Now? The Disease of Cinematic Design

I hope everyone understands that there is nothing wrong with Cinematic games, just the fact that some devs overuse it.

At least strategy games aren't highly afflicted by cinematic design concerns. TC, I think that if you look at the replies in the thread, you will understand why the industry is facing this problem.

Barbariser

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

I bet if Uncharted wasn't even mentioned in the OP, half of this topic wouldn't have happened. Sad, really....

I had left for the night after I posted a response. Just now went through the thread and didn't see a response to my post. Here's the post again, and if there is no reply to this one I'll leave this thread as there must not be anything worth replying to in my post. :P

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

I don't think doing away with that sort of thing will stifle developers at all. I think the action of giving the player more freedom will force developers, if anything, will be more creative, as they'll have to deal with what the player is doing rather than just limiting it to a certain set of actions to derive an effect, or deliver an experience. Don't mistake me, I don't think set-pieces are bad in and of themselves, or anything, and I think in some cases, they are necessary. But when you build a game around set-pieces, and try to limit the player so that you, as a dev, can have control, you're limiting interactivity, which is the strength of the medium.

Zassimick

I can see your point and see why you are frustrated. I respect that you want more freedom in gaming and taking away freedom is rough in gaming.

But some games are centered around certain rules which can change given different situations. Some will limit your freedom for the sake of it and some people will not be satisfied by that while others will be happy for the variation.

I believe that this cinematic design that Naughty Dog is doing is just a stepping stone to greater things. Like I said in that previous post, look at where we are from last gen, or even earlier this gen to now with a game like Uncharted 3. That whole cargo plane sequence could have been one large QTE. Instead, Naughty Dog gave us more freedom in a situation like that than ever. To see this continue to grow as developers find new techniques will be incredible.

As for building a game around set-pieces, Naughty Dog saw what worked for them and cashed in on that. I can't really speak against them for it.

I do see your point and I don't think you are wrong for the way you are thinking. I just have a different view on what this is doing for gaming. While you think it is a disease, and I can see why, I think of it as a stepping stone to greater freedom in set-piece moments.

This isn't a simple its your opinion or view versus my opinion or view. You have shown me your argument and take on cinematic design in the video game industry and though I respect your opinion I have disagreed and stated why I disagree. I would like to know if you agree or disagree with my view on there being stepping stones to reach something great.

Let us know when you actually play this game darklink

At least strategy games aren't highly afflicted by cinematic design concerns. TC, I think that if you look at the replies in the thread, you will understand why the industry is facing this problem.

Barbariser

And if you look at other responses in this thread you will begin to understand why some people do not view cinematic design as a problem in the video game industry today.

My main complaint is with QTEs. There's no way in hell I'll ever consider Heavy Rain an actual game. The fact that people gave that steaming pile above a 5 just boggles my mind. Games can be cinematic, some are fun, however when the entire game consists of "hit this button when I tell you too!" then its time when I just want to tell the game designer to **** off. HoolaHoopMan

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

GD1551

I was wondering about that too. Can someone make a list of cinematic games besides the UC series? I want to see if it really is a disease afflicting the industry.

I mean I can make up a list of FPS games in no time compared to a list of cinematic games.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

jun_aka_pekto

I was wondering about that too. Can someone make a list of cinematic games besides the UC series? I want to see if it really is a disease afflicting the industry.

I mean I can make up a list of FPS games in no time compared to a list of cinematic games.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

jun_aka_pekto

I was wondering about that too. Can someone make a list of cinematic games besides the UC series? I want to see if it really is a disease afflicting the industry.

I mean I can make up a list of FPS games in no time compared to a list of cinematic games.

All I can think of is the COD games, BF3, Mass Effect series, Enslaved, God of War, Heavy Rain and Heavenly Sword.

I bet if Uncharted wasn't even mentioned in the OP, half of this topic wouldn't have happened. Sad, really....

TrapJak

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

What problem? There are hardly any cinematic games on the market, please enlighten us all. Most devs cannot afford to make cinematic games or don't make them at all buddy, and this isn't going to change anytime soon.

GD1551

I was wondering about that too. Can someone make a list of cinematic games besides the UC series? I want to see if it really is a disease afflicting the industry.

I mean I can make up a list of FPS games in no time compared to a list of cinematic games.

All I can think of is the COD games, BF3, Mass Effect series, Enslaved, God of War, Heavy Rain and Heavenly Sword.

Wouldn't all Bioware games fit on that list? DA/Swtor... they're 'cinematic' Not in some quicktime bs sorta way or too movie like, to me they still come off as very appropriately gamey and you don't stop playing just 'cause there's a cinematic 'cause of that dialogue wheel. (which I think is possibly one of the greatest things since sliced apples)

However BF3 destroys it's gameplay for the sake of cinematic presentation. I think it would have been a much better example of this, then again I've not played the UC series, so it could be plenty valid and from what I've seen qte's..., 'cause it looks like an action movie to me, and I hate action movies/settings.

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

just another Darklink77 thread crying over Uncharted's 3 10/10. everyone move along

charizard1605

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

just another Darklink77 thread crying over Uncharted's 3 10/10. everyone move along

Mozelleple112

Not on this website. :?

The only games I remember fondly from this gen are the ones with incredibly refined games or incredibly unique worlds.foxhound_fox

I bet if Uncharted wasn't even mentioned in the OP, half of this topic wouldn't have happened. Sad, really....

TrapJak

I don't mind cinematics in certain genres where the pacing isn't a big concern. It fits the UC series fine. But, if cinematics are in the SP part of a game like BF3 (which I haven't bought yet), I'd be incredulous after having exhausted previous BF games like BF1942/DCX and BF2. I much prefer the bots in the SP of BF2.

[QUOTE="TrapJak"]

I bet if Uncharted wasn't even mentioned in the OP, half of this topic wouldn't have happened. Sad, really....

HoolaHoopMan

Because those are those are mostly games that you bothered playing. I'm sure that you would like some of the Uncharted games if you gave it a chancemD-

I had left for the night after I posted a response. Just now went through the thread and didn't see a response to my post. Here's the post again, and if there is no reply to this one I'll leave this thread as there must not be anything worth replying to in my post. :P

[QUOTE="Zassimick"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

I don't think doing away with that sort of thing will stifle developers at all. I think the action of giving the player more freedom will force developers, if anything, will be more creative, as they'll have to deal with what the player is doing rather than just limiting it to a certain set of actions to derive an effect, or deliver an experience. Don't mistake me, I don't think set-pieces are bad in and of themselves, or anything, and I think in some cases, they are necessary. But when you build a game around set-pieces, and try to limit the player so that you, as a dev, can have control, you're limiting interactivity, which is the strength of the medium.

Zassimick

I can see your point and see why you are frustrated. I respect that you want more freedom in gaming and taking away freedom is rough in gaming.

But some games are centered around certain rules which can change given different situations. Some will limit your freedom for the sake of it and some people will not be satisfied by that while others will be happy for the variation.

I believe that this cinematic design that Naughty Dog is doing is just a stepping stone to greater things. Like I said in that previous post, look at where we are from last gen, or even earlier this gen to now with a game like Uncharted 3. That whole cargo plane sequence could have been one large QTE. Instead, Naughty Dog gave us more freedom in a situation like that than ever. To see this continue to grow as developers find new techniques will be incredible.

As for building a game around set-pieces, Naughty Dog saw what worked for them and cashed in on that. I can't really speak against them for it.

I do see your point and I don't think you are wrong for the way you are thinking. I just have a different view on what this is doing for gaming. While you think it is a disease, and I can see why, I think of it as a stepping stone to greater freedom in set-piece moments.

This isn't a simple its your opinion or view versus my opinion or view. You have shown me your argument and take on cinematic design in the video game industry and though I respect your opinion I have disagreed and stated why I disagree. I would like to know if you agree or disagree with my view on there being stepping stones to reach something great.

Let us know when you actually play this game darklink

mD-

Uncharted along with Gears and Vanquish is at the very peak of the 3rd person shooter genre :? If you want to talk about "masterpiece" games with bad gameplay, what about the Resident Evil games with their lame stuck camera and tank controls? That actually makes sense, what exactly is the problem with Uncharted's shooting gameplay?locopatho

Which can also be found in every Gears game.

Then how come MGS4 is the best game ever made ? :| :?

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Uncharted along with Gears and Vanquish is at the very peak of the 3rd person shooter genre :? If you want to talk about "masterpiece" games with bad gameplay, what about the Resident Evil games with their lame stuck camera and tank controls? That actually makes sense, what exactly is the problem with Uncharted's shooting gameplay?sakura_Ex

Which can also be found in every Gears game.

Wow 32 pages. I am not going to read every reply.

I have no problems with having options in gaming as a whole. I have no problems with cutscenes either. Afterall a game such as FFIX has cutscenes as well as other of my favorite games. However, earlier this year I beat COD4. While I enjoyed the game overall I hated how most of the levels are scripted. To me, a game being linear is not always scripted. Then I played the other games in the series and its gotten worse with the predictability. My issue is whether other devs next gen. Will we be seeing more games entirely scripted?

Now I have not played the uncharted games so I cannnot comment on it. I do find it hilarious how people seem to miss the point, attack the TC and bring up Zelda of all games.

As for story, no problems with story in videogames even though I think most stories are bad to terrible in gaming. But not every game needs a story to be excellent and not every genre needs a story

Anyways next year, I will not rely on reviews as much as I used to, especially from IGN.

I gotta say DarkLink you outdid yourself. :P

I declare this thread awesome!

And I'm an Uncharted fan.

[QUOTE="sakura_Ex"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Uncharted along with Gears and Vanquish is at the very peak of the 3rd person shooter genre :? If you want to talk about "masterpiece" games with bad gameplay, what about the Resident Evil games with their lame stuck camera and tank controls? That actually makes sense, what exactly is the problem with Uncharted's shooting gameplay?locopatho

Which can also be found in every Gears game.

The movements in Gears games are still that of a tank.

[QUOTE="locopatho"][QUOTE="sakura_Ex"]

Which can also be found in every Gears game.

sakura_Ex

The movements in Gears games are still that of a tank.

I declare this thread awesome!

And I'm an Uncharted fan.

mitu123

Um... no. They aren't. Tank = can only slowly move forward. Gears = can move quickly in any direction. Anyway, Resi isn't the issue. It was just an example of a genuine criticism you could level at a game, as opposed to just saying "Game X is bad lol" :/locopatho

Ok.... show me a person who moves like Marcus Fenix in real life and I'll give you a $100.00.

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Um... no. They aren't. Tank = can only slowly move forward. Gears = can move quickly in any direction. Anyway, Resi isn't the issue. It was just an example of a genuine criticism you could level at a game, as opposed to just saying "Game X is bad lol" :/sakura_Ex

Ok.... show me a person who moves like Marcus Fenix in real life and I'll give you a $100.00.

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Uncharted along with Gears and Vanquish is at the very peak of the 3rd person shooter genre :? If you want to talk about "masterpiece" games with bad gameplay, what about the Resident Evil games with their lame stuck camera and tank controls? That actually makes sense, what exactly is the problem with Uncharted's shooting gameplay?DarkLink77

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

I declare this thread awesome!

And I'm an Uncharted fan.

sakura_Ex

[QUOTE="sakura_Ex"][QUOTE="mitu123"]

I declare this thread awesome!

And I'm an Uncharted fan.

mitu123

[QUOTE="TrapJak"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"] This thread is hilarious and you know it!

TheGuardian03

[QUOTE="locopatho"] Um... no. They aren't. Tank = can only slowly move forward. Gears = can move quickly in any direction. Anyway, Resi isn't the issue. It was just an example of a genuine criticism you could level at a game, as opposed to just saying "Game X is bad lol" :/sakura_Ex

Ok.... show me a person who moves like Marcus Fenix in real life and I'll give you a $100.00.

Then how come MGS4 is the best game ever made ? :| :?

Mozelleple112

I don't get why people say the shooting in Uncharted isn't great. I think the gunplay is very fluid and works well. But I honestly like the cutscenes better than the game itself right now. These scripted over the top events were cool for a while, but it's old and so expected now. And some parts that are gameplay (Wandering through the desert) should just be cutscenes, and other parts that are cutscenes feel like they take away from what could be part of the game. The MP in U3 is better than the single player, and it's nothing special. I like it, but it's nothing I haven't done before.

[QUOTE="TrapJak"]

[QUOTE="TheGuardian03"] Did your avatar just change to Link ? lol :PTheGuardian03

You should probably just avoid big budget blockbusters, because some people actually do like those type of games. Uncharted doesn't do anything new or great in terms of gameplay, its design is very simplistic. But the game is still fun, people wont care or notice that its not reinventing the wheel. Should it get praised for being what it is, maybe no other game does the cinematic design as good as them. The biggest fault I can find in the game is the story, from gameplay,voice acting,chracters I think the game is quality at what its trying to do. And thats to be an enjoyable game that most will enjoy, if your looking for a game with more complex sotry and gameplay you need to look else where. These games would not be made if someone didnt like them, and someone saying the game has bad gameplay or that its a masterpiece is irrelevant as its just someone's opinion. And not many games do the cinematic desing to a full extent like Uncharted, so dont expect the Uncharted disease to spread very far.

GTSaiyanjin2

This is close to how I feel, though written much better than I ever could have :P