Gamespot uses the term "console exclusive"....

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dsmccracken

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#251 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="Hanass"]

[QUOTE="opex07"]

[QUOTE="Hanass"]

Except that only saying "exclusive" would arouse far too much supicion, so it's slightly more subtle to say "console exclusive".

suspicion from who, and of what? I'm not too sure what your trying to say.

From any rational person who is not a blind fanboy and who can accept that every system has a right to exist in a discussion in SW, no matter how afraid they are of getting owned.

I have to disagree with this. This is System Wars, not console wars, this I get. However, that merely means that this is a forum where discussions on all systems are welcome. This does NOT mean that at all times and in all places, whether relevant or not to the actual discussion at hand, we must constantly remember to include every bloody colour of the Benetton Rainbow for no purpose. In other words, if a particular thread is focusing specifically on 360 vs. PS3, it is simply not relevant for a Sheep to waddle in a cry out "don't forget the Wii!!!"
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Hanass

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#252 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

Except that this thread in particular is NOT a console vs console thread, yet people still do everything in their power to turn it into one.

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XaosII

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#253 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]So you're saying ignorance doesn't exist? Why does it matter if the demographic exists, when the fact is that it does. I know you can pick up either, I've already said that some gamers do this and make that descission.

Seperation exists, b/c the seperation is actually there (regradless of how the seperation was created).

dsmccracken

No, im saying that we should not continue to be enablers of ignorance by further giving weight to a seperation that does not exist.

The distinction is mostly semantics.

I was partially tempted to take your post, nearly verbatim, and replace a few words with "racism" and your statement would look so absurd as to be racial pro-segregation. But that would neither be fair to you or entirely topical.

If the separation doesn't exist, then who are all these people calling themselves consolites here, endlessly debating the merits of the 360 and PS3? The separation may not NEED to exist, but it does.

Then why should further encourage the illusion that the seperation exists when it does not need to?

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dsmccracken

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#254 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

Except that this thread in particular is NOT a console vs console thread, yet people still do everything in their power to turn it into one.

Hanass
This thread is ABOUT those threads, so in that context my previous comment still applies.
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dsmccracken

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#255 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
[QUOTE="XaosII"]

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="XaosII"]

No, im saying that we should not continue to be enablers of ignorance by further giving weight to a seperation that does not exist.

The distinction is mostly semantics.

I was partially tempted to take your post, nearly verbatim, and replace a few words with "racism" and your statement would look so absurd as to be racial pro-segregation. But that would neither be fair to you or entirely topical.

If the separation doesn't exist, then who are all these people calling themselves consolites here, endlessly debating the merits of the 360 and PS3? The separation may not NEED to exist, but it does.

Then why should further encourage the illusion that the seperation exists when it does not need to?

I am not talking about the illusion of separation, I'm talking about the REALITY of separation.
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XaosII

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#256 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts

I am not talking about the illusion of separation, I'm talking about the REALITY of separation.dsmccracken

There is no seperation that exists beyond the perception of a fake seperation in the term "console exclusive."

THAT is the problem.

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STRETCH-E

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#257 STRETCH-E
Member since 2009 • 631 Posts

I don't get why we accept "ignorance" as a valid argument.

For god's sake my mom knows you can play videogames on a PC. Just because some people CHOSE not to game on PC doesn't mean PC gaming doesn't exist for them or for us.

This whole argument is incredibly stupid. If we were to keep the same argument but change "PC" and "consoles" for any other words the outcome would be different.

Let's say you want to go on a "trip" and you can either go by "plane" or by "train". Some people are scared to take a plane. Does this mean that the only way to travel is by land? Hmmmmno.

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Hanass

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#258 Hanass
Member since 2008 • 2204 Posts

Nono, his point is that because people are imagining a separation, there is automatically a separation. Replace the word "separation" with "racism" (it would make "people think white people are different and better than the other ethnic groups, so it's true"), and you have the power of logic at your fingertips. ;)

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blue_hazy_basic

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#259 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="legol1"]this is in fact realy simple if a game is on pc 360 cow are angry if a game is on ps3 360 than hermit are angry 2 faction against 1 .this is the truth of system war .Javy03
At the end of the day cows need to hide behind the PC vs the 360 and need the 360 to hide behind vs the PC, a straight up comparison of libraries is not favourable for them. I do think console exclusive is an unecessary term really outside of MS/Sony PR and SW, however.

LOL....actually the hiding that is being done is by MS fanboys. They wanna sweep the PC under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist to fluff up their game lists. The game on the 360 is the exact same one on the PC yet somehow people like you can justify selective comparisons. Sorry I still don't know how MS fans can look down at Sony fans for following the rules of SW. It's the same game on another platform, its multiplat, the hiding is being done by MS fanboys, hiding behind semantics.

LMAO thats exactly it. Its not "fluffing up" game lists. Those games exist on both the PC & 360, MULTIPLATS DO EXIST!!!! (feel free to quote me here)

Cows hide behind those platforms and pretend the games don't exist. You 100% proved my point.

"Fluffing up" lists lol priceless. :lol:

I think console exclusive (as I said before) is a term only fanboys on here and MS/Sony PR people use (aas Sony did during their conference at E3), what I'm talking about is cows die hard refusal to accept it because they refuse to acknowledge multiplat games existance.

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blue_hazy_basic

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#260 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
^^^ except against the wii, then cows (and lems) use MP games all day long.
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-RPGamer-

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#261 -RPGamer-
Member since 2002 • 34283 Posts

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]B/c I'm not just using the word "exclusive", I'm using the phrase "console exclusive". Exclusive in your example for the Xbox 360 (or any system) doesn't say what it's exclusive compared to.

agentfred

Well, I suppose you could use any arbitrary classification you want (just like the "console" classification). For instance, (as suggested earlier in this thread) we could start classifying games by the color of the system it's on. Therefore, FF13 would be a "white system exclusive" for the 360. You can't find FF13 on any other white system, can you? :P

Well, it's the same concept. The idea of classifying systems based on whether they are consoles is just as arbitrary and meaningless as the color of the system.

No it is not. Consoles are a couple decade old concept when it comes to gaming platforms. It is no where near the same as something as meaningless as the color of system. :|

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-RPGamer-

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#262 -RPGamer-
Member since 2002 • 34283 Posts

Then why should further encourage the illusion that the seperation exists when it does not need to?

XaosII

It is not an illussion that console only gamers exist for crying out loud. It is there, regardless of whether some people feel it's needed or not.

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CaseyWegner

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#263 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70152 Posts

[QUOTE="legol1"]what hermit need to understand is lemmings dont want to exclude pc of system war , they want to claim ownage on cow .LongZhiZi
Great- have fun. Just don't use our games to do it. Surely your own list of exclusives can do that...right?...right?....Oh, wait...

yes. it can. :?

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-Traveller-

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#264 -Traveller-
Member since 2009 • 2477 Posts

what ifi can play a game with my system without having to invest in a other system this is ownage . stop hiding behind the pc .legol1

You're hiding behind the exclusion of a system.

Yay, I can play to.

:D

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CaseyWegner

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#265 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70152 Posts

here's a new term..."boycott exclusive". let's say that somebody wants to boycott microsoft (for whatever reason) and never buy a console made by microsoft. should they be able to claim that ps3/360 multiplats are boycott exclusives? this logic isn't far off from some of the excuses i've seen in this thread.

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SUD123456

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#266 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7054 Posts

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

There aren't console exclusives. That isn't the problem.

The problem is that exclusives are not the only games in the game library, and multiplats can have as much influence as exclusives on purchase decisions. The endless battles over lists of exclusives are not accurate in assessing what the potential total game experience is on any system. Yet, the list of exclusives is used over and over again as some form of ownage....my system is better than yours because I have more exclusives.....which is potentially the equivalent of saying my system is better because it has more games with white covers.

And therein lies the problem with exclusive.

XaosII

I think you touching on a bit of a different issue that requires its own analysis.

I think you are ultimately asking "what is the value of X system?" I dont believe that we really have any kind of objective measurement or rubric to judge that definitively. We'll probably never get one. So we make fairly arbitrary rules to try and decide that. Is there a value to the wii's small size and easy portability in the event you want to bring it to a friends house? Absolutely. but just how much value does that hold? Alot for some, very little for others. How can we measure that?

At the very least, every person on this forum is very interested in gaming. We all value good games. We trust this site to make good judgments on declaring good games and bad games. Although we dont all always agree with their judgments, their values represent a quantitative measuring point. At that point we can create numerical comparative measurements. If we can compare one system to having more good games compared to another system that does not have as many good games, i think most us can agree that the system with more good games is the better system - since good games are what hold the most value for most of us in a system. Good exlcusive games help tilt that scale. since the same good game on two system just means +1 for both as opposed to +1 for one and not the other.

So i think there is merit in a list of good exlcusive games. Its not the only factor. But there arent many other factors that we have solid quantitative date that we can make a definitive comparison. Sales numbers, number of exclusive titles, and the price of the system are all easy things to compare and get straight answer. We cant do the same with more abstract values like frequency of disc switching, ease of portability, appeal of interface, hardware reliability, etc.

That was a good response. Thank you.

And I am right with you, right up to and including the sentence I highlighted. It is about good games. And exclusives do help tilt the scale. But so do multiplats....they also help tilt the scale.

I believe the error in logic is that multiplats are always a draw and therefore should be netted out of the equation. This is wrong as I will demonstrate.

I like TV. I want a lot of channels, within a lot of different genres, with hopefully many of them good (sound familiar?). Where I live I have 3 choices:

1. Satellite - 300 channels, many genres, many good channels

2. National Cable Company - the same 300 channels, many genre, many good channels as above, + 1 extra channel.

3. Local Town Cable Company - 10 channels total. 5 of them the same as options 1 & 2, while 5 of them are not.

If I apply SWs logic, of exclusives rule and multiplats don't count, to this example, the local town cable company has the best lineup. Which of course is completely untrue.

That is because focusing only on the exclusives is a type 1 logic error. Multiplats have the same value as exclusives which is +1 game and failing to count them by automatically netting to zero is a logic error.

The PC has an overwhelmingly great lineup in part because it includes multiplats, not because the 360 can't count them as exclusives (which they aren't).

In any case, my example demonstrates why total game library is the only accurate measure of a system's game lineup....not exclusives.

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Ryuuichi009

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#267 Ryuuichi009
Member since 2008 • 219 Posts
Also lulz at all the people saying people think you can't game on a pc. Solitare? Chess? What those aren't games all of a sudden?
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STRETCH-E

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#268 STRETCH-E
Member since 2009 • 631 Posts

here's a new term..."boycott exclusive". let's say that somebody wants to boycott microsoft (for whatever reason) and never buy a console made by microsoft. should they be able to claim that ps3/360 multiplats are boycott exclusives? this logic isn't far off from some of the excuses i've seen in this thread.

CaseyWegner


Or American exclusive.

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dsmccracken

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#269 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"] I am not talking about the illusion of separation, I'm talking about the REALITY of separation.XaosII

There is no seperation that exists beyond the perception of a fake seperation in the term "console exclusive."

THAT is the problem.

There is a separation. I could explain it but you've been here so long you've almost certainly read similar things a million times and are still unconvinced.
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dsmccracken

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#270 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts

here's a new term..."boycott exclusive". let's say that somebody wants to boycott microsoft (for whatever reason) and never buy a console made by microsoft. should they be able to claim that ps3/360 multiplats are boycott exclusives? this logic isn't far off from some of the excuses i've seen in this thread.

CaseyWegner
Mocking the term doesn't make it go away or stop being a real world, common, useful term.
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GunSmith1_basic

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#271 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
imo pc is separate from the consoles. If you are computer savvy pc is the choice where you can fine tune your experience. If you are computer illiterate then the world of pc gaming is largely closed to you. At the very least it will be a much bigger headache than the plug in and play consoles.
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SW_modified

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#272 SW_modified
Member since 2009 • 100 Posts
No, just no. Something can't be exclusive to something and exist somewhere else separate. That's just impossible and ridiculous.
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dsmccracken

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#273 dsmccracken
Member since 2003 • 7307 Posts
No, just no. Something can't be exclusive to something and exist somewhere else separate. That's just impossible and ridiculous.SW_modified
Something can exist somewhere else yet be exclusive to a subset. I won't insult you with analogies, I'm sure you can think of some examples on your own.