Good-Bye Nintendo (Part II) - Lying About Innovation

As an old school gamer, and a fan of Nintendo, I was excited to tune into E3 this year. After all, I've heard from Nintendo fans that "every other year" Nintendo drops something big, and after last year's gad awful E3 showing (Good-Bye Nintendo) they've been long due for something.

Tuning in, right away, I was blown away by... the female Reggie, pretending to snowboard. Okay... well, women over 40 can do anything, you go girl! The Oprah moment wasn't too long though, but this female-Reggie did seem a little out of place at a gaming show.

After all, it's not like soccer Moms are watching the conference, it seems to me it would make a lot more sense to break out Mario, Miyamoto, and the one game we've all been waiting for: Zelda on the Wii.

Instead, Nintendo brought out the real Reggie, and like Dr. Frankenstein's Monster, this beast of a man wanted to grunt. And grunt he did - Reggie spent more time covering sales data than was spent on any other game. Even Nintendo fans in the live chat I was participating in during the conference were starting to wonder if Reggie was actually trying to play sales.

---

Then the fated announcement drops: "we only have time to show you three games" - wait... hang on... excuse me? You spent ten minutes explaining sales data that no one cares about, and then suggest you "don't have enough time" to tell us about games in detail?

Let me say that again.

Nintendo would rather spend time bragging to reporters about sales than showing all the facts about their customers upcoming games. Yeah...

Then came the games - Animal Crossing, Rayman, Call of Duty, Star Wars, Wii Sports 2 and Wii Music... okay.

---

Here's where I'll stop. See, I've been asked to do a part II to this thread. And I took that request finally, when Nintendo fans started coming to me and saying "please, you need to bring it back - do a redux, call out our complaints".

But I've done that before, it was called Good-Bye Nintendo, and its' where I personally gave up on them. Like everyone else who has enjoyed them over the years, I sat there and listened hoping to hear the game REAL Nintendo fans, REAL hardcore gamers, wanted:

Zelda Wii


Yeah, Animal Crossing was nice, we wanted it, but my real complaint was this:


Nintendo needs to keep their mouth shut about "innovation". You heard me, I'm not going to debate with you about whether they're "hardcore" or not. Frankly, I've given up any hope that people who think Mario and Star Wars represent the "hardcore niche" are going to understand why World at War on the Wii is not Call of Duty 4 on the PC. If you're the hardest of the hardcore Wii Fit players - by all means.

But Nintendo, please, shut up about innovation, and stop insulting other developers.

---

Let's look at the beginning of the conference. Nintendo talked about innovation, about changing, about improving, about "moving forward". Innovation, creativity, progress - those are words we all like to hear.

"Hell yeah!" we say - Nintendo is doing something new!

So what do we see?

• A rayman sequel as a party game.
• A call of duty sequel
• A Wii Sports sequel
• A guitar hero port
• A guitar hero sequel
• An Animal Crossing sequel
• Yet another GTA portable title

---

Now wait just a minute - we've listened to three years of Nintendo telling us the "industry wasn't innovative", giving traditional developers grief, telling us we're wrong when we ask for better graphics, sound, and control (yes... motion control doesn't necessarily mean *better control*).

And now, we get a show, Nintendo has the chance to show us *anything* and the only genuinely new thing they showed was Wii Music? And even that wasn't new, as it was shown two years ago as a concept for the Wiimote?

-

Nintendo is forever, from this day on, barred from saying *anything* about innovation. You heard me Nintendo - shut the hell up. Yeah, that's right: SHUT. UP. FOREVER.

Denis Dyack shows Too Human, controversial, certainly, but it's a completely creative story involving Norse gods in a high-tech world. Little Big Planet? Sony showed us something *amazing* - in terms of art, in terms of gaming. PixelJunk Eden, beautiful, gorgeous, different.

Even Banjo & Kazooie 3 - quite a deviation from the other titles - and yet, Nintendo, wants to claim they're better. That somehow *their* version of yet-another-Star Wars game is "different".

They're not different - their system is bringing us more of the same. Animal Crossing was unique when it was called Animal Forest on the N64. It was still cool when it was Animal Crossing on the GCN. Online? That was fun when Animal Crossing was on the DS. So what are you doing now? Adding a *microphone* - something that the Xbox had? That's innovation?

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So - to summarize this rant, it's not eloquent, it doesn't have to be - you cannot call yourself a gamer and buy Nintendo's bull**** this year. No, not in a world with *genuine* innovation - Nintendo needs to shut up and stop insulting other developers.subrosian

So one bad E3 showing and you give up on them? I used to think that you were kinda smart, even if you were trying to suck the fun and hatred out of system wars. Now I can see that's all an act.

EDIT: Oh and I am a hardcore gamer and I can and will buy games for the Wii and DS and still be a hardcore gamer. You of all people shouldn't attempt to start stuff like this on system wars.

[QUOTE="Oroin"]

I wish they would have shown madworld, or at least shown a trailer or screenshot of the new zelda, but one thing confuses me with it's news.... Wii getting voice chat-- people in sw complained that wii had no voice chat of anykind.. and suddenly they get it and guess what sw people are complaining again. like (xbox live or psn or whatever already had voice chat..) N. fixed that prob and people still complained..:? what will make you people happy.. (Manticore not a sheep).

HarlockJC

I wish they would have also. It not like the games are not coming out. Just Nintendo has yet to make state what they are. Nintendo is Nintendo they like their secrets.

Yes but for once I wish they wouldn't make things so vague.. Can't they just say what they are doing... It's simple just say, ""Hey we're making a new zelda for wii this is what it looks like."" Is that so @#$%ing hard.

[QUOTE="Willy105"]Overeacting much? How come I don't feel "being stabbed in the chest" by Nintendo?subrosian

Because, as you've told us, you don't care about hardcore gaming, graphics, sound, etc. You've called yourself a sheep, and if I remember correctly, are a young gamer. You're not a veteran gamer, you don't view games as art, and you weren't alive during the NES era.

I mean none of that as an insult, but you have no way of possibly understanding where I, and other core gamers, are feeling, or where we're coming from. Of course you don't feel stabbed - you're Nintendo's favorite new audience.

Don't generalize, I've been gaming since the SNES, and am a Core gamer, and dont' feel betraed at all, because I realzie this is the smart move by nintendo, target the base that's not solid at your press confrence and throw the sold base bones when you have them, which they do.

People get mad at sony for showing games that won't be out for 3 years... then get upset when Nintendo doesn't do just that.

[QUOTE="lafigueroa"]

[QUOTE="Willy105"]Overeacting much? How come I don't feel "being stabbed in the chest" by Nintendo?GundamGuy0

My official diagnosis? you probably don't have enough gameplaying time in your day.

Solution: take a few hours off, play some Wii games.....you'll find there really aren't that many to play, and there's not too much to look forward to as far as first party hardcore titles go.

Sure there are, just because they weren't shown off at the press confrence doesn't mean they don't exist. They might be on teh floor, they might be shown later in teh week like SSBB was.

Am I the only person that doesn't care one little bit, and never bought into Nintendo's BS to begin with?

Maybe the problem is that you listen to rumors and believed them.

As for E3, it was pretty bad all the way around. I'd wait till Spaceworld and see what else Nintendo has up its sleeves. Last year at E3, Nintendo didn't announce that much either, and later on, they announced SSBB after the conference was over. Mario Kart Wii was announced outside of E3 as well. So I think they will have something else to announce for the latter half of the year.

Also, E3 is no longer the gaming convention it used to be. Now it's just a media outlet for companies to talk about their sales and present some games, but it is no longer the gaming behemoth that it used to be.

Zhengi

Yeah I starting to notice that. It was like that last year too.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Nintendo completely sold out. they suck now.

GundamGuy0

Crying because they had a press confrence focused on the new and less established fanbase, and not on you a gamer who is established and is going to keep gaming no matter what?

What if they annouce a bunch of new Hardcore titles in the next few month, still a sell out? Because they focus on the people who they are less sure about?

Less established? Nintendo spent most of the conference telling us how they are the *primary consumer* of the Wii. Hardcore gamers are a marginal audience on the Wii. In reality, they're not the largest audience, but on every other platform they are the largest consumers of software.

The only thing I dislike about Nintendo...is they are getting alot like they were with the 64, they are top of the world and they don't care for there lower markets when they get in those mode. Casuals are there market they really could care less about the hardcore gamers that buy there machine they will Toss the odd bone and leave it at that and release 10 more Wii___ games before looking at another "Hardcore Title"Jynxzor

Nintendo only survived the N64 and GCN years because of the patience of their veteran gamers, I wonder what will happen when Nintendo's next "downturn" comes...

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Nintendo completely sold out. they suck now.

GundamGuy0

Crying because they had a press confrence focused on the new and less established fanbase, and not on you a gamer who is established and is going to keep gaming no matter what?

What if they annouce a bunch of new Hardcore titles in the next few month, still a sell out? Because they focus on the people who they are less sure about?

LMFAO i love how you make it sound like thats not a good reawon to cry. I push more money into this industry as an individual than any of those casuals, and i have a right to be served with great hardcore games like nintendo has been doing for decades.

dont try to spin their suckage into a good light "but but, focusing on a new crowd". BULL!

A goodbye at this point is pointless, they're already gone.

The Wii is selling like crazy and instead of putting the money into something of quality Nintendo is putting it into the mass market crap games. You can't blame them, they're a business. Microsoft and Sony would too if they could, thankfully they can't so they're forced to focus on us instead.

Still, the Wii is not for quality, it is for mass consumption (the ps2 was both, high sales used to eqaute to most AAA's and AA's, not any more.)

RuprechtMonkey

You must have missed the part where they said EAD and Zelda Team were working on big projects and mented that Wii Sports and Wii Music were low budget.

You can't seriously think that's all nintendo has made... they have like 7 frst party divisions... and that's 3 games.

[QUOTE="HarlockJC"][QUOTE="Oroin"]

I wish they would have shown madworld, or at least shown a trailer or screenshot of the new zelda, but one thing confuses me with it's news.... Wii getting voice chat-- people in sw complained that wii had no voice chat of anykind.. and suddenly they get it and guess what sw people are complaining again. like (xbox live or psn or whatever already had voice chat..) N. fixed that prob and people still complained..:? what will make you people happy.. (Manticore not a sheep).

Oroin

I wish they would have also. It not like the games are not coming out. Just Nintendo has yet to make state what they are. Nintendo is Nintendo they like their secrets.

Yes but for once I wish they wouldn't make things so vague.. Can't they just say what they are doing... It's simple just say, ""Hey we're making a new zelda for wii this is what it looks like."" Is that so @#$%ing hard.

It would have been nice...E3 is still three more days who knows, you can hope. They did it with SSBB.

E3 sucked, but Zelda Wii has since been confirmed and Pikmin, Kid Icarus, and Mario are heavily hinted at. Kid IcarusMario/ZeldaZelda confirmedOld Pikmin linkfamicommander

we all know they are coming. but the thing is: nintendo isn't showcasing them. at e3. WTF?

My God, get over yourself.

These press conferences are not intended to please YOU. They are intended to show the press and shareholders how these companies plan to make money. The real money comes from casual games. You saw it with Microsoft (Lips, 1 vs. 100), and Nintendo. And yes, Nintendo is going to make a boat load of money of the games they showed.

Nickman71

How about Sony? They showed off some business stuff, some stats, but most of their conference was about the games, cuz that's what it all comes down to. With Nintendo, it was the opposite. How come Sony pull off their conference with a mix of business and games, but be perceived in a positive light, while Nintendo in a very negative light?

Lemme also say this... If Nintendo had a conference like this in '06 or even last year, and still came out with great cutting edge games that took advantage of the Wii properly, then there would be no prob, but that's not the case. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, what about Brawl? Metroid? Zelda? Brawl was limited in the motion controls from the standpoint that the veteran players, especially those who play competitively, Nintendo didn't wanna alienate them with the motion controls. Metroid was praised for great motion controls, so that's 1 good example. And then of course Zelda, which arguably had tacked on motion controls. Don't get me wrong, those are still great games, but this is about innovation isn't it? Cutting edge games? A different gaming experience? Mainly from new IP's and 3rd parties utilizing the Wiis abilities to the fullest extent? There's still upcoming games like Sadness or Disaster that could change that, but there was no sign whatsoever of those games or other games like those. Maybe they'll get mentioned in the next few days? I don't know. We'll see.

People get mad at sony for showing games that won't be out for 3 years... then get upset when Nintendo doesn't do just that. GundamGuy0

Kirby Wii was confirmed to be out this year, but it wasn't shown or placed on the 2008 release list. Why don't they even show the game off in the conference or at least tell us about the game?

At least last year Nintendo announced the SSBB delay. Why didn't they do it this year?

Oh yeah, they rather focus on a rythm game that doesn't have a score or progress. Yippie!

It's one thing to try to keep a nice image for the press and it is another to completely bury games because they don't fit a certain image. I had to find out about MadWorld from other people, it wasn't in any Wii future game release list. They focus on the third party that fits into the mold. What about Blast Works and Boom Blox...weren't they good third party games? Nintendo doesn't care about us hardcore gamers anymore, you have to accept it. BlazeDragon132

Agreed, however it gets worse, because at this point they keep using words like "innovation" while they do the same things every other developer does. So Microsoft is being "same old" if they make another Gears title a focus of the System - but Nintendo having half-a-dozen sequels and ports as the focus of their conference is new and exciting? Really? How's that not hypocrisy?

I'm so glad I got my Xbox 360 instead of a Wii. I would have kicked myself in the face if I got a Wii. I would have missed out on a lot of great games. Nintendo was the King back in the Nintendo 64 era (which I still have and to this day play.) God only knows what stuff Nintendo will say next generation when it claims that its 1000th Mario Sports game is innovative and a AAA title, and that how their new system caiters the their Hardcore fans by letting their grandmothers play.

No joke thats all I've heard from Nintendo this generation "Wii is great becuase the younger audience and your grandmother can play too." And thats all they focus on.

[QUOTE="famicommander"]E3 sucked, but Zelda Wii has since been confirmed and Pikmin, Kid Icarus, and Mario are heavily hinted at. Kid IcarusMario/ZeldaZelda confirmedOld Pikmin linkHeydanbud92

we all know they are coming. but the thing is: nintendo isn't showcasing them. at e3. WTF?

So? E3 isn't the only time they have to show them. And we still got a few more days of E3 anyway.

Subroasian at least wait for TGS before you go all "bye bye Nintendo". I feel, you i've been a supported since I was the size of a peanut butter jelly sandwich. I was even one of the few who supported them trough NGC. I don't have anything against them trying to get more players and consumers interested, which I think Music, Rayman, Animal Crossing and Resort will do. Am I pissed. No am I super dissapointed at the moment? OH FRIKKEN YEAH! I'm probably not going to buy anything for the familys Wii anytime soon. But before I go all *buuhuu Nintendo!* I'm going to wait for TGS since I think Nintendo is picking their moment there.

If not, then we should get pissed.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Nintendo completely sold out. they suck now.

JPOBS

Crying because they had a press confrence focused on the new and less established fanbase, and not on you a gamer who is established and is going to keep gaming no matter what?

What if they annouce a bunch of new Hardcore titles in the next few month, still a sell out? Because they focus on the people who they are less sure about?

LMFAO i love how you make it sound like thats not a good reawon to cry. I push more money into this industry as an individual than any of those casuals, and i have a right to be served with great hardcore games like nintendo has been doing for decades.

dont try to spin their suckage into a good light "but but, focusing on a new crowd". BULL!

Why do they need to focus on your now? Keep in mind they showed off Wii Sports at the press confrence eveyone cryed foul, and then the next day they showed off SSBB. They know when and who to market to. The main press confrence is for everyone, more core stuff is shown during the actuall show, which is more for the industry then for the mass media. They know who they are markting too. You don't need to be pulled into a room and told that these are the big games. You'll find a video on teh internet whenever it's released. This is why Nintendo wins the know there audence, and the audence today is more mass media and non-gamers.

My God, get over yourself.

These press conferences are not intended to please YOU. They are intended to show the press and shareholders how these companies plan to make money. The real money comes from casual games. You saw it with Microsoft (Lips, 1 vs. 100), and Nintendo. And yes, Nintendo is going to make a boat load of money of the games they showed.

Nickman71

Then, tell me, why is the press there?

I was disgusted by the soccermom and I was disgusted by the entire presentation.

Except Animal Crossing Wii - finally, one game outside of ToS2 and Harvest Moon that I will be able to look forward to this holiday season for the Wii. I feel sad that Nintendo has abandoned most of its key IPs. Guess the 360/PC/PS3 will just have to be my key source of entertainment, while the Wii gets only a few respectable games each year...

[QUOTE="Nickman71"]

My God, get over yourself.

These press conferences are not intended to please YOU. They are intended to show the press and shareholders how these companies plan to make money. The real money comes from casual games. You saw it with Microsoft (Lips, 1 vs. 100), and Nintendo. And yes, Nintendo is going to make a boat load of money of the games they showed.

Heydanbud92

Then, tell me, why is the press there?

It's for buyers like Gamestop, Wall-mart and the like, and investors... why do you think they all mention sales numbers. It's not intended for actuall gamers.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"][QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Nintendo completely sold out. they suck now.

GundamGuy0

Crying because they had a press confrence focused on the new and less established fanbase, and not on you a gamer who is established and is going to keep gaming no matter what?

What if they annouce a bunch of new Hardcore titles in the next few month, still a sell out? Because they focus on the people who they are less sure about?

LMFAO i love how you make it sound like thats not a good reawon to cry. I push more money into this industry as an individual than any of those casuals, and i have a right to be served with great hardcore games like nintendo has been doing for decades.

dont try to spin their suckage into a good light "but but, focusing on a new crowd". BULL!

Why do they need to focus on your now? Keep in mind they showed off Wii Sports at the press confrence eveyone cryed foul, and then the next day they showed off SSBB. They know when and who to market to. The main press confrence is for everyone, more core stuff is shown during the actuall show, which is more for the industry then for the mass media. They know who they are markting too. You don't need to be pulled into a room and told that these are the big games. You'll find a video on teh internet whenever it's released. This is why Nintendo wins the know there audence, and the audence today is more mass media and non-gamers.

I mean, im not even saying dont show the wii music etc, im saying, if you've got anything big up your sleeve, out with it already, otherwise its safe to assume you've gone completely rogue.

I was disgusted by the soccermom and I was disgusted by the entire presentation.

Except Animal Crossing Wii - finally, one game outside of ToS2 and Harvest Moon that I will be able to look forward to this holiday season for the Wii. I feel sad that Nintendo has abandoned most of its key IPs. Guess the 360/PC/PS3 will just have to be my key source of entertainment, while the Wii gets only a few respectable games each year...

death919

and i remember you being a huge sheep before this.

...You spent ten minutes explaining sales data that no one cares about...

Investors care a great deal actually. And when it comes down to it, E3 is about them, not us.

Couldn't have really said it any better, subrosian. I will add that not only are they not innovative, they put out a machine that is grossly overpriced for what it is capable of. It's a gamecube with motion sensing tacked on, which by the way, wasn't fun 10 years ago, and it isn't fun now. I still can't get over how they delayed Twilight Princess for a good year (after we had already waited, what 3? or 4. I don't really remember.) so they could have it for a launch game with the added GIMMICK of motion controls. Reggie talks about all these games for the Wii, when in fact, a good 85% of them are shovelware garbage that should have STAYED on the internet in a flash game format where it was free.

I don't see how anyone could possibly defend the direction Nintendo has gone. I certainly miss the SNES days.

Didin't nintendo pretty much say that "We used these hardcore titles to get the nintendo fanboys into the wii, at the same time our REAL audiance is these casual people like old women and babies!" kinda admiting "we dont care about the people that kept us alive during the N64 and Gamecube days."insanejedi

They have never officially made that claim in those exact words, but they certainly hint at it. If Nintendo wants to send apology letters to everyone who bought an N64 and GCN for turning their back, it would certainly be to their credit.

[QUOTE="Willy105"]Overeacting much? How come I don't feel "being stabbed in the chest" by Nintendo?subrosian

Because, as you've told us, you don't care about hardcore gaming, graphics, sound, etc. You've called yourself a sheep, and if I remember correctly, are a young gamer. You're not a veteran gamer, you don't view games as art, and you weren't alive during the NES era.

I mean none of that as an insult, but you have no way of possibly understanding where I, and other core gamers, are feeling, or where we're coming from. Of course you don't feel stabbed - you're Nintendo's favorite new audience.

oh noes nintendo didn't show all of their games in their press conference.

Yes, definite reason to leave nintendo

They will show more just you wait.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

Last year even after the god awful press conference, I hung onto hope seeng as the big three were just around the corner.

This time around there is no excuse.

I'll probably just stick around for animal crossing and then sell my wii.

DS can stay though...It's still good.

subrosian

DS is good because it gets a lot of hardcore support from third party devs. In the console world, those devs go to PC, 360, and PS3 where they can become the focus of the system. Even what few "core" games come from third parties to the Wii don't get focused on by Nintendo. Nintendo isn't showcasing the Conduit (which would boost sales) the way Sony is showcasing Resistance 2, and Microsoft is showcasing Gears of War 2.

To be quite honest, the only game I'm buying on my DS in the next year is Bioware's Sonic RPG, and that's a *huge maybe*. That's only because I'm a fan of Bioware's works. I thought about getting a DS Lite, and lately even *that* system hasn't had enough hardcore games to keep me playing it. It hasn't offered something that PSN, LIVE, and STEAM digital content, or full games haven't been able to meet.

So yeah, I've said good-bye to Nintendo, as I said before, they said "good-bye' to us a long time ago. They don't genuinely focus enough on what they call "veteran gamers" to keep third parties alive on the Wii. Nintendo fans like to point at the Conduit - what did Nintendo do at E3 to help ensure that retailers buy tons of copies, and promote it heavily? What are they doing for mature-rated content on the system (no, that doesn't mean they're more mature games, but you miss out on stuff like Eternal Darkness 2 and the like if Nintendo is hesistant to promote offensive content).

But yeah...100% agreed with you on the wii.

[Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. Willy105

Then where are the games for us?!?!

[QUOTE="Willy105"][Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. RuprechtMonkey

Then where are the games for us?!?!

[QUOTE="death919"]

I was disgusted by the soccermom and I was disgusted by the entire presentation.

Except Animal Crossing Wii - finally, one game outside of ToS2 and Harvest Moon that I will be able to look forward to this holiday season for the Wii. I feel sad that Nintendo has abandoned most of its key IPs. Guess the 360/PC/PS3 will just have to be my key source of entertainment, while the Wii gets only a few respectable games each year...

insanejedi

and i remember you being a huge sheep before this.

Features like voice chat should have been implemented in their online service in the first place. Its not an anouncement I can get excited about.

Nintendo's priority and focus is obviously the non-gamers. And you know, I don't care. I just want to see Zelda, and a Mario/Donkey Kong platformer. Games that are entertaining and are generally easier recognised among the more traditionally and dedicated gamers.

Did they show it? Not even an anouncement. Let alone a short teaser that would have satisfied us like the GoWIII teaser by Sony.

What does this mean? Basicly a middle finger to their loyal fanbase. All the energy and time they invested in these peripherals has slowed the development process of the real worthy quality Nintendo games.

I've said this a long time ago. Nintendo is changing their priorities. And so am I! My Wii is a secondary gaming console I often use when my friends come to visit me. After that its serious business, and I immediately go back to playing Civilization, Warcraft, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, TF2 or CoD4.

The Wii has so much wasted potential. Portal on the Wii? Perhaps Bioshock? These games could have been excellent Wii exclusives. Very suitable games for that particular control scheme with the Wii mote. Why aren't we seeing serious games such as Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls on Wii? Poor third party support. Terrible even.

At first I was very fascinated by the idea of motion sensing capable gaming system. I've been starting to dislike it after I found out that Mario Galaxy would work perfectly fine with a regular controller. But this is not a complaint. I'm happy Nintendo tried something new. But there are so many other aspects Nintendo failed at.

Still no proper online support. Imagine playing Team Fortress 2 on Wii... onlne without those frustrating friend codes that restrict me communicating with the online community.

Wasted potential Nintendo...

Weird. I always thought as myself as hardcore. In fact, I am typing this on the Wii browser, like I do most of the time in here. I really like games, and play them as much as I can. I love games with great graphics, with beautiful animation and a detailed world to explore. Having really good music sets the mood for the whole experience. I think gaming is a better expression of art than movies are, because EVERYTHING in a game came from your mind, not real life like in live action movies. Believe it or not, you can still be a lover of games and still not think Nintendo's E3 conference was not the end of the world. And it's pathetic that I have to explain myself like this, it speaks badly of the gaming community as a whole. Gaming should be for everyone, and I am happy than I can finally play video games with my friend and family members that never liked games, even though I couldn't care less about their games. As a gamer, I want to play with other people. I completely understand how you feel about the conference, but you just need to realize that this is over-reacting. Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. STOP HATING GAMES.Willy105

I agree.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Willy105"][Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. Willy105

Then where are the games for us?!?!

Of WHAT?

The few 3rd party games we already knew about (Mad World, etc.)? Animal Crossing, which we've known about forever?

Nintendo's efforts this E3 completely amounted to Wii Sports, Wii Music, etc. Right now they're making 10 times as much money as they were with the GC and yet they're making less games for their core audience then they were back then. Shouldn't be the reverse?!?!

[QUOTE="Willy105"][Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. RuprechtMonkey

Then where are the games for us?!?!

Good question.

Couldn't have really said it any better, subrosian. I will add that not only are they not innovative, they put out a machine that is grossly overpriced for what it is capable of. It's a gamecube with motion sensing tacked on, which by the way, wasn't fun 10 years ago, and it isn't fun now. I still can't get over how they delayed Twilight Princess for a good year (after we had already waited, what 3? or 4. I don't really remember.) so they could have it for a launch game with the added GIMMICK of motion controls. Reggie talks about all these games for the Wii, when in fact, a good 85% of them are shovelware garbage that should have STAYED on the internet in a flash game format where it was free.

I don't see how anyone could possibly defend the direction Nintendo has gone. I certainly miss the SNES days.

Tatimus

I also dont get the Wii and motion controls. Snes was the last perfect hardware they had.

[QUOTE="Willy105"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Willy105"][Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. RuprechtMonkey

Then where are the games for us?!?!

Of WHAT?

The few 3rd party games we already new about (Mad World, etc.)? Animal Crossing, which we've known about forever?

Nintendo's efforts this E3 completely amounted to Wii Sports, Wii Music, etc. Right now they're making 10 times as much money as they were with the GC and yet they're making less games for their core audience then they were back then. Shouldn't be the reverse?!?!

Nintendo never said they will abandon their original fanbase, they just said they want to make it bigger. Willy105

The thing about making the fanbase bigger is that they have to put as much effort into pleasing their old fanbase as they do encouraging the new one, otherwise you'll find yourself left with only your new fanbase and your old fanbase moving on to forms of entertainment that focus more on them.

Also, when they have the opportunity to address millions of their fans via live TV and web based feeds, I shouldn'tt have to hear about the best games, such as Madworld and The Conduit, from somewhere else.

and to be fair, you're right that E3 is for retailers, but the PRE-E3 PRESS conference is called such for a reason: IT'S FOR THE PRESS, AND THE MANY WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE WORDS AND REACTIONS OF SAID PRESS

Features like voice chat should have been implemented in their online service in the first place. Its not an anouncement I can get excited about.

Nintendo's priority and focus is obviously the non-gamers. And you know, I don't care. I just want to see Zelda, and a Mario/Donkey Kong platformer. Games that are entertaining and are generally easier recognised among the more traditionally and dedicated gamers.

Did they show it? Not even an anouncement. Let alone a short teaser that would have satisfied us like the GoWIII teaser by Sony.

What does this mean? Basicly a middle finger to their loyal fanbase. All the energy and time they invested in these peripherals has slowed the development process of the real worthy quality Nintendo games.

I've said this a long time ago. Nintendo is changing their priorities. And so am I! My Wii is a secondary gaming console I often use when my friends come to visit me. After that its serious business, and I immediately go back to playing Civilization, Warcraft, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, TF2 or CoD4.

The Wii has so much wasted potential. Portal on the Wii? Perhaps Bioshock? These games could have been excellent Wii exclusives. Very suitable games for that particular control scheme with the Wii mote. Why aren't we seeing serious games such as Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls on Wii? Poor third party support. Terrible even.

At first I was very fascinated by the idea of motion sensing capable gaming system. I've been starting to dislike it after I found out that Mario Galaxy would work perfectly fine with a regular controller. But this is not a complaint. I'm happy Nintendo tried something new. But there are so many other aspects Nintendo failed at.

Still no proper online support. Imagine playing Team Fortress 2 on Wii... onlne without those frustrating friend codes that restrict me communicating with the online community.

Wasted potential Nintendo...

PullTheTricker