How many multi-plats were held back this generation because of 360's DVD format?

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

They have the same RAM I thought? Just PS3 is split I think. Anyway who cares, it's not like this affects anything, no one knows anything about these systems. We just play the games. Almost all multiplats look the same, so I don't think RAM matters.

ShadowMoses900

actually the 360 has 32MB more RAM

moreover, what Delta was saying is that the PS3's OS uses 50MB of ram while the 360's uses 32MB

as for differences, it probably helps for multiplats, giving it that extra ever so slight edge

Well like I said, I don't know nor care. It's not like this stuff affects game developers. And the slight edge isn't even slight, it's more like invisible.

Uncharted 3 clearly has higher resolution textures than Gears 3. This is coming from someone who played both. You can't deny that Uncharted 3 has better textures because it's obvious.GamerwillzPS

I dunno about higher resolution, but it seemed pretty apparent to me that it has a higher number of different high res textures, as in more variety of different textures throughout the game. I know Drake's Fortune had enough different textures to fill a DVD9 alone, and I wouldn't imagine that they would have less textures for U2 and U3.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

No, the PS3's OS uses up more RAM than the 360's does, meaning there is less RAM for developers to work with from the outset than they have with the 360 and the 360's unified RAM pool is more flexible for developers than the PS3's split RAM architechture.

If you don't think RAM matters, you know less about games than I thought you did. RAM matters FAR more for a game than the amount of storage space available to a developer.

The_Game21x

Your an xbox fanboy, what you say doesn't matter.

And you don't have any idea about what you're talking about.

Hit the books junior and learn about game development before you open your mouth next time. Oh, and brush up on your grammar too (You're means you are). :wink:

Grammar Nazi eh?

I don't think you know anything about game development. I don't think anyone here does. So like I said, what you say doesn't matter. PS3 is more powerful, devs have no issues with PS3 in most cases as most multiplats are identicle, and the 360 has not yet produced any games that look as good as PS3 exclusives. Those are the facts son!

Don't get upset at me. Now I'm wating for you to attack my grammer again.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="rilpas"]

actually the 360 has 32MB more RAM

moreover, what Delta was saying is that the PS3's OS uses 50MB of ram while the 360's uses 32MB

as for differences, it probably helps for multiplats, giving it that extra ever so slight edge

delta3074

Well like I said, I don't know nor care. It's not like this stuff affects game developers. And the slight edge isn't even slight, it's more like invisible.

lol you learned from biased sources. I learned about game development too from The Major Mayor.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Well like I said, I don't know nor care. It's not like this stuff affects game developers. And the slight edge isn't even slight, it's more like invisible.

ShadowMoses900

lol you learned from biased sources. I learned about game development too from The Major Mayor.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

Your an xbox fanboy, what you say doesn't matter.

ShadowMoses900

And you don't have any idea about what you're talking about.

Hit the books junior and learn about game development before you open your mouth next time. Oh, and brush up on your grammar too (You're means you are). :wink:

Grammar Nazi eh?

I don't think you know anything about game development. I don't think anyone here does. So like I said, what you say doesn't matter. PS3 is more powerful, devs have no issues with PS3 in most cases as most multiplats are identicle, and the 360 has not yet produced any games that look as good as PS3 exclusives. Those are the facts son!

Don't get upset at me. Now I'm wating for you to attack my grammer again.

Hey, don't get mad at me for trying to get you to better yourself. :lol:

Also, for someone who seems to think no one here knows anything about game development, you seem to make an awful lot of claims about the PS3's power in relation to the Xbox 360.

I don't know a great deal about game development, that much is true, but I know enough to know that you don't have the slightest clue about what you're talking about. To even suggest that the amount of available RAM doesn't matter shows how little educated you are on the subject. Yessh. Hit the books bro and maybe you'll stop embarassing yourself with your obvious ignorance.

Oh, and it's "grammar". There's no "e" in grammar. :wink:

imagine if microsoft has splurged and put 1 gig in the 360....there wouldn't even be a comaprison between ps3 and 360 titles.

imagine if microsoft has splurged and put 1 gig in the 360....there wouldn't even be a comaprison between ps3 and 360 titles.

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

imagine if microsoft has splurged and put 1 gig in the 360....there wouldn't even be a comaprison between ps3 and 360 titles.

Chutebox

[QUOTE="arkephonic"][QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

No one here can say with certainly--or even with a grain of confidence--which of the two hold more high-resolution textures. I've played both, while only owning Uncharted 3, and I can say with certainly that you have no clue what you're talking about. Both games look great, you're not an expert at Digital Foundry--quit pretending you're one.

Stevo_the_gamer

So wait, you're saying that someone who has never played Uncharted 3 knows just as much about the game as someone who has played through it?

I pronounce you, king of logic.

[QUOTE="Blabadon"][QUOTE="mems_1224"]who cares? there have been amazing games this gen regardless. how many were held back because they had to be ported to the ps3?mems_1224

But however, its becoming a major issue with 360 discs...sethman410

[QUOTE="sethman410"] But however, its becoming a major issue with 360 discs...Stevo_the_gamer

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"][QUOTE="sethman410"] But however, its becoming a major issue with 360 discs...sethman410

You were saying, arkephonic?Stevo_the_gamer

I was saying that I played through Gears of War 3 and Uncharted 3 back to back in the same week, and I remember thinking that Uncharted 3 had a larger amount of different and varied high resolution textures used throughout the game. Just an observation.

I just came across this and I can't help but think that a lot of this data has to do with the large amount of high res textures in the game.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1019717/uncharted_3_bigger_than_50gb_bluray_disc_naughty_dog.html

"Uncharted 3 currently comprises over 50GB of data and assets according to Naughty Dog marketing boss Meyer.

Speaking to NowGamer at Gamescom about being PS3-exclusive Meyer said: "I think it really helps. It's not even about sales. It's about what we can push on the platform and how far we can take it. I'm sure you'll hear this from every other Sony developer but you know, I can't tell you how much we've been able to optimise Cell and you know, the amount of content we can put on Blu-ray."

According to Meyer Uncharted 2 "barely made it to 25GB", while Naughty Dog is "going over 50GB this time," for Uncharted 3.

Pressed on the data limits for Blu-ray Meyer confirmed "50. At the moment, it's 50GB."

So if Naughty Dog's going over 50GB? "If you're going over 50, then I guess you'll have to be on multiple discs," said Meyer. "But we'll be under 50. We'll be one disc."

We guess there's still some optimisation and compression left to do on Uncharted 3 before launch then, either way it looks like Uncharted 3 will be the biggest PS3 game to date."

Oh, here we go Stevo...

I think the part I bolded means that those elements in the game are what took up a lot of space, one of which is the high resolution textures, most likely meaning there were a lot of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncharted_3:_Drake%27s_Deception

"Naughty Dog said that Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception uses an "evolved" version of the same engine they used in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and Uncharted 2: Among Thieves that has allowed the game to have better physics, visuals, and environmental effects. The game features new innovations in sand, fire, smoke, and water dynamics and effects, also it adds to the movement of the characters, more realistic textures and animations. According to Naughty Dog Uncharted 3 is graphically superior to Uncharted 2. "We're at full speed, optimizing code specifically for the SPUs," Naughty Dog co-president (and former technical director) Christophe Balestra told Edge. "We were, at any given point, using 100% [of the PlayStation 3's power]. We were using everything we possibly could. There is always room where you find something where you can do the processing in some different way to find more power. There are all of these different ways to squeeze more power out of the box," Justin Richmond, game director told VentureBeat.

Real physics and environment deformation are key in creating a realistic playing experience, according to Naughty Dog's Community Strategist Arne Meyer. Game director, Justin Richmond, said that Uncharted 3 pushed the PlayStation 3​'s graphical capabilities to its limits, but Uncharted 3 doesn't manage the same graphical advance seen between the first two games because the Playstation 3 simply can't handle it, "We pushed it really hard. Uncharted 2 to 3 is still a jump, but it's a narrower jump. And going forward, it depends on what we do."

In an interview at GamesCon 2011, Senior Manager of Marketing Communications Arne Meyer spoke of the unprecedented size of Uncharted 3 stating "Uncharted 2 barely made it to 25GB, while Naughty Dog is going over 50GB this time, for Uncharted 3. But in the end we'll be under 50. We'll be one disc." Meyer also spoke of what it is like to work with the PlayStation platform stating "I think it really helps. It's not even about sales. It's about what we can push on the platform and how far we can take it. I'm sure you'll hear this from every other Sony developer but you know, I can't tell you how much we've been able to optimise Cell and you know, the amount of content we can put on Blu-ray."

On September 27, 2011, Naughty Dog's Co-President, Christophe Balestra, posted a picture via his Twitter account, which showed Uncharted 3 assets taking nearly 24.2 Terabytes consumed while stating, "We'd better finish this game soon…". It was not clear if this network drive is for general use or for Uncharted 3 game assets and data. However, Balestra's comment seems to allude to the former, indicating that the purpose of the drive is for the game. A larger game typically translates into mo-cap and art assets, high-res textures, music, voice audio, more environments, more content, and as a result a more fulfilling game to play.Uncharted 3 will probably be the largest game to-date. According to Mick Hocking, the director of Sony WorldWide Studios' 3D team, Uncharted 3 "will show a new level in 3D gaming". He went on "Uncharted 3 in 3D will really convince people of our full-screen HD 3D solution... Genuinely, Uncharted 3 looks phenomenal in 3D."

Oh, here we go Stevo...

I think the part I bolded means that those elements in the game are what took up a lot of space, one of which is the high resolution textures, most likely meaning there were a lot of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncharted_3:_Drake%27s_Deception

arkephonic

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]You were saying, arkephonic?arkephonic

I was saying that I played through Gears of War 3 and Uncharted 3 back to back in the same week, and I remember thinking that Uncharted 3 had a larger amount of different and varied high resolution textures used throughout the game. Just an observation.

An observation that has no founded basis at all and most of all, is irrelevant and moot. My point still stands--you have no idea what you're talking about, don't try to pretend that you do simply because you own both games. Both games look good, anything outside of that on which is better is nothing a simple consolite can even hope to pretend to know.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]You were saying, arkephonic?Stevo_the_gamer

I was saying that I played through Gears of War 3 and Uncharted 3 back to back in the same week, and I remember thinking that Uncharted 3 had a larger amount of different and varied high resolution textures used throughout the game. Just an observation.

An observation that has no founded basis at all and most of all, is irrelevant and moot. My point still stands--you have no idea what you're talking about, don't try to pretend that you do simply because you own both games. Both games look good, anything outside of that on which is better is nothing a simple consolite can even hope to pretend to know.

Well, I didn't make the game, so I don't know how I would go about finding out exactly what percentage of those 50 gigabytes were dedicated towards high resolution textures, but common sense tells me some of it was.

Common sense, right?

I'm actually very surprised by that. I didn't know that Uncharted 3 was 50 gigs until just now after I read that. They even said that they compressed it quite a bit.

Well, I didn't make the game, so I don't know how I would go about finding out exactly what percentage of those 50 gigabytes were dedicated towards high resolution textures, but common sense tells me some of it was.

Common sense, right?

I'm actually very surprised by that. I didn't know that Uncharted 3 was 50 gigs until just now after I read that. They even said that they compressed it quite a bit.

arkephonic

Wow, God of War 3 took up 35 gigs.

http://www.destructoid.com/god-of-war-iii-eats-up-35-gigs-on-a-blu-ray-disc-164577.phtml

"Thankfully the Gods of Media Storage did not abandon Sony Santa Monica in its quest to create God of War 3.

According to Sony Santa Monica's director of technology Tim Moss, the upcoming sequel will take up 35 gigs on the Blu-ray disc it ships on.

"Thank heavens for Dual Layer Blu-rays," he wrote on Twitter.

35 gigs is a fraction of what a dual-layer Blu-ray disc can hold, which theoretically can store anywhere between 50 and 100 gigs of data. No word on how many gigs of that data (if any) will be installed to your PlayStation 3 hard drive, but we'll find out soon enough -- God of War III has gone gold, and will be available at retail on March 16."

Could you imagine if every single multi-platform game released this generation had 50 gigs to work with, and they had uncompressed audio and video, localizations, additional art assets, motion capture, high definition cutscenes, and whatever else these developers use this space for? I admit it, I don't make games, but I can't imagine anything bad would come out of developers having 50 gigs to work with as opposed to 6 gigs. I think it is pretty close minded to think that they wouldn't be able to add more to their game, or make what is there better through things like uncompressed audio and video.

All of my examples from page 1 are from 2009, it seems like things have changed since then. It appears that developers need the extra space provided by blu ray more than ever, certainly moreso now than they did in 2009.

http://www.justpushstart.com/2011/01/just-how-big-is-killzone-3-in-terms-of-size/

"If there's one thing that says a lot about a game is the size, with Sony's next big title Killzone 3 releasing soon, just how does it stack up?

Today at JPS headquarters, we got quite the interesting package straight from Sony, a prerelease copy of the upcoming title Killzone 3. The Killzone series has a lot going on from amazing graphics to a top online multiplayer. Fans who might have played the demo may recall a rather large download size, nearly 4 GB in size. So this brings up the question, just how big is Killzone 3? Its quite the understable question, most of the higher file size games are either top tier or have nearly endless things to do; some examples would be Metal Gear Solid 4, Uncharted 2, God of War 3 and the highest of all Final Fantasy XIII.

As our first of many topics to give you all the details on this powerhouse, we are happy to announce that Killzone 3 is 41.5 GB making it just a little bit over Final Fantasy XIII making it the largest current Playstation title. This is quite a shock considering the last game (Killzone 2) clocked in with a respectable 12 GB! With this news though, I'm sure you have to be wondering if there's a data install. I mean most largest games have one, and you want something this nice to run perfectly right? Well we are happy to announce that Killzone 3 officially has NO data install and runs perfectly!"

Obviously more storage, more gigabytes, bigger file sizes, better graphics, better sound, localizations, more high res textures, motion capturing, uncompressed audio and video doesn't mean better games. Some people prefer Contra on the NES to games of today, so technology alone does not make a good game. But technology is evolving, and developers are putting this stuff to use apparently, and it is just the natural evolution of technology. Like I said, it doesn't magically create good games, but it gives developers more freedom to create what they have envisioned in their minds.

Why do you continue to dabble in a subject you know little about?Stevo_the_gamer

There's no way anyone would know how much of the 50 gigabytes in Uncharted 3 went towards high resolution textures unless they made the game themselves. I don't think that is any indication of someone's knowledge on the subject.

What I do know, is that Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception would be 9 discs on the 360. 9 discs really isn't that bad, actually. Final Fantasy IX was 4 discs, and I didn't have a problem changing them. I think people overexaggerate when talking about multiple discs. I mean, would it really be that big of a deal to get up 9 times to change the disc? It wouldn't be enough to truly interrupt the gameplay experience, or tarnish the immersion or pacing. I really don't see what the big fuss is all about.

There's no way anyone would know how much of the 50 gigabytes in Uncharted 3 went towards high resolution textures unless they made the game themselves. I don't think that is any indication of someone's knowledge on the subject.

What I do know, is that Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception would be 9 discs on the 360. 9 discs really isn't that bad, actually. Final Fantasy IX was 4 discs, and I didn't have a problem changing them. I think people overexaggerate when talking about multiple discs. I mean, would it really be that big of a deal to get up 9 times to change the disc? It wouldn't be enough to truly interrupt the gameplay experience, or tarnish the immersion or pacing. I really don't see what the big fuss is all about.

arkephonic

There are techniques the DF and other experts use by going to the directory on the disk, and then dissecting the files to see the variable allocation. It's how they noticed a large margin of the files on Killzone 3 were redundant data to make up for the slow read time of the Blu-ray.

This brings us back to the original point, there's no point in arguing if Gears of War 3 or Uncharted 3 is superior--you're not an expert. Just because you own both or have played both means you're an expert on it. You evalutions are irrelevant just like mine would be. You think one looks better than the other? Great. Someone else has the same right to believe differently, or concurring.

Uncharted 3? Oh brother. You said 46GB right? How about we remove the behind the scenes videos, foreign languages, and 3D movies... DF estimates about 20GB of actual game data--which is still a large sum. But how much redundant data is there? And uncompressed audio, or other game data? At the most, two DVD9s, I reckon'.

Damn that 360 for making KZ3 and UC3 have like 8 MP maps each. If only they used more space on the Blu Ray we would have 20 maps on each game.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

There's no way anyone would know how much of the 50 gigabytes in Uncharted 3 went towards high resolution textures unless they made the game themselves. I don't think that is any indication of someone's knowledge on the subject.

What I do know, is that Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception would be 9 discs on the 360. 9 discs really isn't that bad, actually. Final Fantasy IX was 4 discs, and I didn't have a problem changing them. I think people overexaggerate when talking about multiple discs. I mean, would it really be that big of a deal to get up 9 times to change the disc? It wouldn't be enough to truly interrupt the gameplay experience, or tarnish the immersion or pacing. I really don't see what the big fuss is all about.

Stevo_the_gamer

There are techniques the DF and other experts use by going to the directory on the disk, and then dissecting the files to see the variable allocation. It's how they noticed a large margin of the files on Killzone 3 were redundant data to make up for the slow read time of the Blu-ray.

This brings us back to the original point, there's no point in arguing if Gears of War 3 or Uncharted 3 is superior--you're not an expert. Just because you own both or have played both means you're an expert on it. You evalutions are irrelevant just like mine would be. You think one looks better than the other? Great. Someone else has the same right to believe differently, or concurring.

Uncharted 3? Oh brother. You said 46GB right? How about we remove the behind the scenes videos, foreign languages, and 3D movies... DF estimates about 20GB of actual game data--which is still a large sum. But how much redundant data is there? And uncompressed audio, or other game data? At the most, two DVD9s, I reckon'.

The creators of the game said no duplicate data. What is wrong with uncompressed audio? What is wrong with other game data?

Let me guess, Uncharted 3 would be better if it were compressed from 50 gigs down to 6 gigs, right? It would be a much better game.

The creators of the game said no duplicate data. What is wrong with uncompressed audio? What is wrong with other game data?

Let me guess, Uncharted 3 would be better if it were compressed from 50 gigs down to 6 gigs, right? It would be a much better game.

arkephonic

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

The creators of the game said no duplicate data. What is wrong with uncompressed audio? What is wrong with other game data?

Let me guess, Uncharted 3 would be better if it were compressed from 50 gigs down to 6 gigs, right? It would be a much better game.

Stevo_the_gamer

All I said was that I thought Uncharted 3 looked like it had a lot more varied high resolution textures compared to Gears of War 3, which I still think is true. The fact that Uncharted 3 is 50 gigs in size only convinces me further. I dunno why you're latched onto that so much, you just can't seem to let it go, can you? You said you think they're equal, and you don't see me telling you to prove it, do you?

All I said was that I thought Uncharted 3 looked like it had a lot more varied high resolution textures compared to Gears of War 3, which I still think is true. The fact that Uncharted 3 is 50 gigs in size only convinces me further. I dunno why you're latched onto that so much, you just can't seem to let it go, can you? You said you think they're equal, and you don't see me telling you to prove it, do you?

arkephonic

Edit: Heck, I just downloaded the multiplayer to MW3 on Steam. 14GB worth of data... and we both know MW3 ain't exactly a looker.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

All I said was that I thought Uncharted 3 looked like it had a lot more varied high resolution textures compared to Gears of War 3, which I still think is true. The fact that Uncharted 3 is 50 gigs in size only convinces me further. I dunno why you're latched onto that so much, you just can't seem to let it go, can you? You said you think they're equal, and you don't see me telling you to prove it, do you?

Stevo_the_gamer

Well it appears you misinterpreted what I said, because I was never talking about the quality of graphics, I was talking about the quantity of different textures, and that is indeed something that is correlated to game size.

How many third-party games require more three discs, which costs devs extra money? Not many, if there are any.

But since logic isn't important in SW, I'll say Final Fantasy XIII was held back for the lulz. :twisted:

Tikeio

Even though it was "for the lulz", the actual game data on the PS3 version of FFXIII (excluding cutscenes etc.) is iirc 6.8gig. There was an article about it way back then, where people went through the files on both versions and sussed out that they both have the exact same about of game data. The rest of the PS3 version BR is filled up with higher quality (1080p) CGI and multiple language tracks.

console focus held back this whole generation.

How would u console gamers like if some of ur fav console developers exclusive turned 100% focus to pc gaming?

Would u feel backstabbed that's for goddamn sure same as how pc games did with epicgames and idsoft.

**** THIS WHOLE GENERATION.

How would u console gamers like if some of ur fav console developers exclusive turned 100% focus to pc gaming?

Would u feel backstabbed that's for goddamn sure same as how pc games did with epicgames and idsoft.

**** THIS WHOLE GENERATION.

heeeeeeeeeweeee

What's up, dude.

I would just play on PC.

I don't follow systems, I follow games. The fact that I like literally every single genre in gaming results in me just getting all the systems, because whether people want to admit it or not, every system has great games, even the Wii. PC has great exclusives, PS3 has great exclusives, 360 has great exclusives and the Wii has great exclusives.

[QUOTE="heeeeeeeeeweeee"]

How would u console gamers like if some of ur fav console developers exclusive turned 100% focus to pc gaming?

Would u feel backstabbed that's for goddamn sure same as how pc games did with epicgames and idsoft.

**** THIS WHOLE GENERATION.

arkephonic

What's up, dude.

I would just play on PC.

I don't follow systems, I follow games. The fact that I like literally every single genre in gaming results in me just getting all the systems, because whether people want to admit it or not, every system has great games, even the Wii. PC has great exclusives, PS3 has great exclusives, 360 has great exclusives and the Wii has great exclusives.

idsoftware and epicgames dont make as good of games on consoles as they did pc.

the platform is holding them back.

gears of war better than unreal tournament which started on pc? BS

rage better than quake that started on pc?| BS

epicgames and idsoftware both created better ip's on the pc.

skyrim is a good example, it was possibly the most massive game this gen (with untold hours of audio dialogue) that was held back because it only used half the space on a dvd.

gears of war better than unreal tournament which started on pc? BS

rage better than quake that started on pc?| BS

epicgames and idsoftware both created better ip's on the pc.

heeeeeeeeeweeee

eeehhhh.

both UT and quake were pretty light in the britches in terms of single player... gears and rage were both far more robust... the multiplayer i guess comes down to mechanics... which i would agree both UT/Quake are better at... but arcade shooters are a dying breed. Counter strike struck the first blow... of handicapping the player by slowing them down.

[QUOTE="heeeeeeeeeweeee"]

gears of war better than unreal tournament which started on pc? BS

rage better than quake that started on pc?| BS

epicgames and idsoftware both created better ip's on the pc.

SauceKing

eeehhhh.

both UT and quake were pretty light in the britches in terms of single player... gears and rage were both far more robust... the multiplayer i guess comes down to mechanics... which i would agree both UT/Quake are better at... but arcade shooters are a dying breed. Counter strike struck the first blow... of handicapping the player by slowing them down.

nah quake and unreal single player is better less linear than rage and gears of war.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

[QUOTE="heeeeeeeeeweeee"]

gears of war better than unreal tournament which started on pc? BS

rage better than quake that started on pc?| BS

epicgames and idsoftware both created better ip's on the pc.

heeeeeeeeeweeee

eeehhhh.

both UT and quake were pretty light in the britches in terms of single player... gears and rage were both far more robust... the multiplayer i guess comes down to mechanics... which i would agree both UT/Quake are better at... but arcade shooters are a dying breed. Counter strike struck the first blow... of handicapping the player by slowing them down.

nah quake and unreal single player is better less linear than rage and gears of war.

[QUOTE="heeeeeeeeeweeee"]

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

eeehhhh.

both UT and quake were pretty light in the britches in terms of single player... gears and rage were both far more robust... the multiplayer i guess comes down to mechanics... which i would agree both UT/Quake are better at... but arcade shooters are a dying breed. Counter strike struck the first blow... of handicapping the player by slowing them down.

WilliamRLBaker

nah quake and unreal single player is better less linear than rage and gears of war.

unreal 1=single player

ut=spin off franchise multiplayer only

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op-tys_98Ek

unreal 1 single player 1998.

That owns **** gears of war

the first unreal destroys any gears of war single player.

heeeeeeeeeweeee

the first unreal's single player, was probably more equivalent to a multiplayer map populated by bots than any of the actual single player games we know and love.

Half life was really the first game that made single player anything beyond a shootout with terrible AI bots in a random world.

[QUOTE="heeeeeeeeeweeee"]

the first unreal destroys any gears of war single player.

SauceKing

the first unreal's single player, was probably more equivalent to a multiplayer map populated by bots than any of the actual single player games we know and love.

Half life was really the first game that made single player anything beyond a shootout with terrible AI bots in a random world.

No it was gameplay narrative while gears of war is story.

and david jaffe just said games suck now because they arent focused on gameplay instead more a story.

half life 1 was actually a bad influence for the industry everything is too overscripted now because of that game.

if u look the scripting in unreal 98 doesnt slow down the gameplay much most of the **** is just scripted explosions and like a guy getting killed then door opens acouple seconds later.

having to go talk to someone in a game like half life 1 really slows down the pace of the gameplay