Is there any purpose for dual analog anymore?

KB/M is far superior for shooters and games that require micro-management and such. You might prefer dual analog for shooters, but that doesn't make it better. A mouse is just far more accurate.

However, could you play a platformer/racer/fighter with a KB/M? I realise that there are better peripherals for both racers and fighters, but this is strictly between dual analog and KB/M.

Neither are perfect for every type of game.

KB/M is far superior for shooters and games that require micro-management and such. You might prefer dual analog for shooters, but that doesn't make it better. A mouse is just far more accurate.

However, could you play a platformer/racer/fighter with a KB/M? I realise that there are better peripherals for both racers and fighters, but this is strictly between dual analog and KB/M.

Neither are perfect for every type of game.

BZSIN

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

both. Anything with a pointer is going to be better.

GreenGoblin2099

How's that going to help every other genre that's not a FPS??? how is a pointer going to help play let's say SFIV??? or LBP?? how??

You're basing this entire thread on the "superiority" of the Wiimote/M/KB on a single gaming genre and that's a fail.

SEE?? SEE WHY CASUALS MADE THINGS WORSE FOR GAMERS???

:lol:

No, read the first post. I go through many genres.

FPS's was just one example. What other genres need two analog sticks? The sole one I can think of is 3D action/adventure games. But all the well made ones pretty much have perfect camera as is and take most the need for camera controls out of the picture.

RTS - better with poiter

WRPG - Better with pointer

Sports and racing - Doesn't need two sticks

Fighters - Doesn't need two sticks

JRPG - Doesn't need two sticks

Neither are perfect for every type of game.

BZSIN

Pretty much sums up what needs to be said right here.

• Guitars
• Controllers
• Wiimotes
• Dance Pads
• Arcade Sticks
• Beatmania tables
• Drum sets
• Mouse/Key board

Sports and racing - Doesn't need two sticks

goblaa

Whoa whoa slow your roll. BlackBond needs that second analog stick for Madden and 2K Basketball. Madden without 2 analog sticks would be like.....hell I wouldn't even want to think about it. Maybe it doesn't need two sticks as hell techicially you can bring back the C Buttons on N64 but having two sticks for a lot of sports games is highly benificial.

Well if they would ever take analog away that would be a sad day. I mean just like some wouldn't want to trade their mouse for a wii like control. And my personal experience from the wii is terriable. The accuracy is terrible imo. They have a lot to work on with sensor pick up.jasonheyman

The Wii's sensor pick up is pretty much up to the programing. There are games that pick it up 100% every time. Then there are games that were slapped together by no-talent devs and the wiimote's pointer is flickering all over the place.

And then there are those idiots who hold the wiimote up infront of them in the air and complain that they can't aim. Serves them right for playing like a moron.

But I do agree, IR is kinda old tech. I hope they use something better next gen.

Did people forget that the mouse and keyboard were created for WORD PROCESSING?? How does your wrist feel after playing for hours on that keyboard at that awkward angle? Using directional arrows or A, S, D etc..for movement? PULEEEEZ! PC is only good for: MMORPG, Pirating, Hacking, Internet surfing. Of course that is just my humble opinion. heh heh.StarkJJ

And what does it matter if it was created for word processing? I'm sure many more people would find using a mouse and keyboard more comfortable then a controller because guess what? Schools, businesses and people all over the world in everyday life use computers all the time without complaining about wrist cramps. Oh my gosh imagine that. Wow seriously. The computer is an everyday tool a gaming device is not lol.

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. goblaa

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

Blackbond

If you put two equal level players of the same skill against each other its going to come down to the tool being used at hand. The person using the fuctionably superior tool will win. There is a reason that nobody in their right mind would ever use a controller in any FPS competition on PC.

The guy using the M/KB will have the greater advantage over the controller because he is using an input device that has superior speed, accuarcy, and precision.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

DragonfireXZ95

If you put two equal level players of the same skill against each other its going to come down to the tool being used at hand. The person using the fuctionably superior tool will win. There is a reason that nobody in their right mind would ever use a controller in any FPS competition on PC.

The guy using the M/KB will have the greater advantage over the controller because he is using an input device that has superior speed, accuarcy, and precision.

Well obviously. See my post above that points to there is not one device that rules them all. But in regards to fighters outside of Smash I would never touch a fighter without an arcade stick lol. Oh and funny thing I did have a guy argue with me that playing a fighter with a mouse and keyboard (using the mouse for movement) was indeed good and on equal footing with more convential ways of playing the genre. Needless to say pulling a hadouken with a mouse seemed laughable and hilarios when I tried it.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

DragonfireXZ95

If you put two equal level players of the same skill against each other its going to come down to the tool being used at hand. The person using the fuctionably superior tool will win. There is a reason that nobody in their right mind would ever use a controller in any FPS competition on PC.

The guy using the M/KB will have the greater advantage over the controller because he is using an input device that has superior speed, accuarcy, and precision.

what fighters use dual analog? I'm not arguning that GAMEPADS are inferior, I'm arguing that TWO ANALG STICKS are inferior.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="jasonheyman"]

So just out of curiosity and opinions sake say we take two gamers both knowing the methods of each platform and set them up for a FPS dual. One get a controller and the other Kb/M.

So the one who play the Kb/M will have a greater advantage of the controller? And how so?

DragonfireXZ95

If you put two equal level players of the same skill against each other its going to come down to the tool being used at hand. The person using the fuctionably superior tool will win. There is a reason that nobody in their right mind would ever use a controller in any FPS competition on PC.

The guy using the M/KB will have the greater advantage over the controller because he is using an input device that has superior speed, accuarcy, and precision.

You not using dual-analogs in a year could have something to do with that...maybe?killab2oo5

That's my whole point. My first time with the wiimote was MP3 and I was aiming perfectly the second I picked it up. No prior experience. I've gone over a year without playing a PC FPS and have had no problem jumping back in. DA though requires me to re-learn and practice all over again. The fac tthat there's a learning curve for a less efficiant control system makes it inferior.

m i dont know if you know this already that 2nd analog sticks replaced n64s camera buttons , lol ,

thats what the 2nd joystick is mostly used for in many racing gta and other various games

That's my whole point. My first time with the wiimote was MP3 and I was aiming perfectly the second I picked it up. No prior experience. I've gone over a year without playing a PC FPS and have had no problem jumping back in. DA though requires me to re-learn and practice all over again. The fac tthat there's a learning curve for a less efficiant control system makes it inferior. goblaa

"Couth_"

It's mostly propoganda. Dual analog is your automatic. KB/M is your stick shift. More work for slightly better performance

Other than calling it propaganda, your reference pretty much sums it up. Neither are exactly terrible like the O.P makes it seem; Shown from the number of people including me who doesn't mind playing either. In the end, that doesnt change the facts that k.b/mouse is factually better. Although when it comes to preference, I prefer dual analog for multiple reasons and most genres on it other than really fast paced shooters( or other fast games in genres).

But yes, if everyone must go there, then Kb/m is technically better for performance.

[QUOTE="killab2oo5"]You not using dual-analogs in a year could have something to do with that...maybe?goblaa

That's my whole point. My first time with the wiimote was MP3 and I was aiming perfectly the second I picked it up. No prior experience. I've gone over a year without playing a PC FPS and have had no problem jumping back in. DA though requires me to re-learn and practice all over again. The fac tthat there's a learning curve for a less efficiant control system makes it inferior.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]That's my whole point. My first time with the wiimote was MP3 and I was aiming perfectly the second I picked it up. No prior experience. I've gone over a year without playing a PC FPS and have had no problem jumping back in. DA though requires me to re-learn and practice all over again. The fac tthat there's a learning curve for a less efficiant control system makes it inferior. foxhound_fox

Nothing much really. The waggle's not precise enough. There have been a few WOW moments when I noticed that I was playing with a control scheme just not possible anywhere else like in boom blox, but that's rare. The only positive thing in my eyes that has come from waggle (besides making casual and party games better) is when the motion relates to the on screen action. Not 1:1 mind you (that won't be possible till M+), but like sword swinging in zelda. Sure a button press would do just fine, but swinging the wiimote relates more to swinging a sword then pressing a button. It's just one less level of abstraction.

BUT, this topic is about the need for TWO ANALOG STICKS.

Nothing much really. The waggle's not precise enough. There have been a few WOW moments when I noticed that I was playing with a control scheme just not possible anywhere else like in boom blox, but that's rare. The only positive thing in my eyes that has come from waggle (besides making casual and party games better) is when the motion relates to the on screen action. Not 1:1 mind you (that won't be possible till M+), but like sword swinging in zelda. Sure a button press would do just fine, but swinging the wiimote relates more to swinging a sword then pressing a button. It's just one less level of abstraction.

BUT, this topic is about the need for TWO ANALOG STICKS.

goblaa

Well if you took away one analog stick you'd take away a very important part of playing 90 percent of games. Camera. Since usually the Right analog is for camera/aim or just camera.jasonheyman

In 3D action/adventure games, sure. But most modern well made 3D action/adventure games have really good camera. So good that camera control is almost never needed, and in some cases completly taken away. A good action/adventure game should have you focus on playing, not tweaking things to get the best view.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"]Well if you took away one analog stick you'd take away a very important part of playing 90 percent of games. Camera. Since usually the Right analog is for camera/aim or just camera.goblaa

In 3D action/adventure games, sure. But most modern well made 3D action/adventure games have really good camera. So good that camera control is almost never needed, and in some cases completly taken away. A good action/adventure game should have you focus on playing, not tweaking things to get the best view.

I agree with that you shouldn't have to tweak, but you could never take that right (second) analog away because of shooters. The aim ties in with camera

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"]Well if you took away one analog stick you'd take away a very important part of playing 90 percent of games. Camera. Since usually the Right analog is for camera/aim or just camera.jasonheyman

In 3D action/adventure games, sure. But most modern well made 3D action/adventure games have really good camera. So good that camera control is almost never needed, and in some cases completly taken away. A good action/adventure game should have you focus on playing, not tweaking things to get the best view.

I agree with that you shouldn't have to tweak, but you could never take that right (second) analog away because of shooters. The aim ties in with camera

Which is inferior to any pointing device.

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. goblaa

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

CLEARLY DUAL ANALOG CONTROLLERS ARE STILL NEEDED!!!! A mouse and key board requires a desk, and Infared controllors require a sensor.

sorry but when i play video games i like to lounge on my couch with the controllor over my head and behind my back

I would never sit at a desk or aim the controller towards the screen, thats so stupid

Honestly i'd pick convenince and confort OVER precision any day of the week

some people just don't get it, video games are for fun SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly i'd pick convenince and confort OVER precision any day of the week

some people just don't get it, video games are for fun SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LastRedMage

sorry but when i play video games i like to lounge on my couch with the controllor over my head and behind my back

LastRedMage

Wow, that's a new one. :P

I play mostly on the wii these days. With a shooter, I sit in a lazyboy with the nunchuck rested on my genitles and the wiimote rested on the arm rest or my lap. (not kidding). And if I'm playing a game without the nunchuck, there's a drink in that hand. One handed gaming rocks.

Mouse/keyboard takes getting used to as well. I've never met anybody who could just 'pick up and play' an FPS on a PC. It ALWAYS takes some adjusting/tweaking. I don't really like using the keyboard for moving/strafing. Plus all the shortcuts are unintuitive and you have to learn them all. I agree that mouse/keyboard is superior but saying that anyone can use it is simply not true.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]

[QUOTE="Innocentguy757"]For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.Locke562

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

I play mostly on the wii these days. With a shooter, I sit in a lazyboy with the nunchuck rested on my genitles and the wiimote rested on the arm rest or my lap. (not kidding). And if I'm playing a game without the nunchuck, there's a drink in that hand. One handed gaming rocks.goblaa

nothing wrong with dual analog, but i find that wii controls (and I assume pc) are much better for shooters (and some other genres, but not all) IMO.

and if you bash any control system without at least trying it... that's a fairly large fail for you

I respect your arguments Goblaa, but I think if you took away one analog stick it would leave the controller very unbalanced, I think at the moment it's quite optimised for comfort and ease of use. Maybe if they replaced the right one with something like a tablet, like the touch sensor on laptops instead of the mouse, in fact, if this hasn't been used, I absolutely coin this idea.
And Blackbond, you don't really back up your statements, it's just 'Keyboard/Mouse wins, controllers are inferior', you're barely letting anyone rebutt against your remarks, each of yours have just been that Keyboards and Mouses are better because you say so, yet you say it's factual, cite your sources if it's such a proven fact.mlisen

Better, can not really be proven. All that can be proven, is that kb/m is faster, more precise, and 99/100 people would probably tell you it is easier to control a PC fps vs a console one. Some people would call a Honda Civic better than a Ferrari. Some prefer an automatic tranny vs a manual...

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. goblaa

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

My room mate has a 360, and while I admit it has been about a year since I played with a standard game pad, I tried playing CoD:WoW and Fallout 3 on his 360 today. And I gotta say, the controls suck. I play Fallout 3 on the PC and going from mouse to analog is night and day. It's going from one of the most intuitive control systems to the least. I have CoD:WoW on the wii, and while it has less content, I don't care because I can aim and don't need some type of assist system. Most people know that dual analog is the worst system for first person games, but I'm pretty confident that the only reason we put up with it is because on consoles at least there was nothing better. We just got used to it. I remember playing halo when it first came out and having trouble at it. I kept playing and got over the learning curve and got better. But now that I have gone back to dual analog after such a long hiatus, it's apparent to me that the control scheme just sucks. A good controls scheme (mouse or wiimote) is one that just comes natural, not one you have to practice at to make up for its flaws.

What genres ARE dual analog good for? Not shooters, you only need one stick for racers and sports, JRPGs don't need one at all really, WRPGs are better with a pointer, RTSs are better with a pointer...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control.

I enjoy having the 4 face buttons and 4 shoulder buttons easily available, but if Sony and MS plan to improve their games next gen, they need an IR pointer or something similar.