Is there any purpose for dual analog anymore?

[QUOTE="Blackbond"][QUOTE="manicfoot"]

Mouse/keyboard takes getting used to as well. I've never met anybody who could just 'pick up and play' an FPS on a PC. It ALWAYS takes some adjusting/tweaking. I don't really like using the keyboard for moving/strafing. Plus all the shortcuts are unintuitive and you have to learn them all. I agree that mouse/keyboard is superior but saying that anyone can use it is simply not true.

TheGrat1

Not in my experience. Give a girl a controller to play Halo and she doesn't know what to do as she can't manipulate both analogs. Sit her down infront of a PC and give her COD to play on the PITT network and tell her just click on guys to shoot them and she's a ok. Crappy player but anyone can grasp the concept of moving a mouse which you use in everyday life and clicking on something on your screen.

Because manipulating two analog sticks is something that an average girl who doesn't play video games is going to struggle with. Its just not convientially moving two sticks to aim like you're driving some tank compared to a myspace/facebook browsing female who has familiarity with moving a PC mouse its obviously going to be easier for her to move the mouse over an icon (or in this case enemy) and click rather then manipulate two analog sticks and then press the trigger.

This is why the Wii has also been successful. Moving a remote is just much more accessible then dual analog is and that has translated into Nintendo being able to expand its demographic into people that didn't formerly play games do to complexity of 14 button controllers.

As for keys its really common sense to teach them.

W = Forward

S = Back

R = Reload yes thats R for reload. Reload starts with R.

Switch weapons with the scroll mouse.

Essentially everything is right there for them on the mouse except for W and S and the reload button and lets be serious I don't bother teaching them how to strafe and they wouldn't last long enough to need to reload in all seriousness anyways.

They just move, look, stop, point and aim then people laugh and say you got killed by a girl.

You don't understand how people can say mouse and keyboard is more intuitive then dual analog? You realize that mouse and keyboard is a part of everyday life correct? Work, School, your computer, internet. Everyone is familiar with a mouse and you don't have to be a seasoned gamer to be familiar with a mouse.

If you're hitting the wrong keys then set them up to a way you can remember.

G = Grenade

R = Reload

T = Talk

Come on many PC gives you every ability to make and customize your controls to your own liking.

I enjoy using both.

For a relaxed, sit on the couch playing, DA is fine. BUT, if I really want to be at my peak of speed and precision KB/Mouse is the "weapon" of choice.

It really comes down to personal preference and how you play.

wait, I guess it depends on the type of game too.

Anyone who plays RTS or FPS on PC use a controller for those types of games?

My room mate has a 360, and while I admit it has been about a year since I played with a standard game pad, I tried playing CoD:WoW and Fallout 3 on his 360 today. And I gotta say, the controls suck. I play Fallout 3 on the PC and going from mouse to analog is night and day. It's going from one of the most intuitive control systems to the least. I have CoD:WoW on the wii, and while it has less content, I don't care because I can aim and don't need some type of assist system. Most people know that dual analog is the worst system for first person games, but I'm pretty confident that the only reason we put up with it is because on consoles at least there was nothing better. We just got used to it. I remember playing halo when it first came out and having trouble at it. I kept playing and got over the learning curve and got better. But now that I have gone back to dual analog after such a long hiatus, it's apparent to me that the control scheme just sucks. A good controls scheme (mouse or wiimote) is one that just comes natural, not one you have to practice at to make up for its flaws.

What genres ARE dual analog good for? Not shooters, you only need one stick for racers and sports, JRPGs don't need one at all really, WRPGs are better with a pointer, RTSs are better with a pointer...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control.

I enjoy having the 4 face buttons and 4 shoulder buttons easily available, but if Sony and MS plan to improve their games next gen, they need an IR pointer or something similar.

goblaa

Mouse/keyboard takes getting used to as well. I've never met anybody who could just 'pick up and play' an FPS on a PC. It ALWAYS takes some adjusting/tweaking. I don't really like using the keyboard for moving/strafing. Plus all the shortcuts are unintuitive and you have to learn them all. I agree that mouse/keyboard is superior but saying that anyone can use it is simply not true.

Not in my experience. Give a girl a controller to play Halo and she doesn't know what to do as she can't manipulate both analogs. Sit her down infront of a PC and give her COD to play on the PITT network and tell her just click on guys to shoot them and she's a ok. Crappy player but anyone can grasp the concept of moving a mouse which you use in everyday life and clicking on something on your screen.

well all the people defending genres reliant on DA must not have heard of a joystick

a joystick with a touchpad or some trackball device would be the best

I agree though.. even with having a ps2 all gen there were few games where I needed a DA so when I played halo for the first time I was completely fubar walking into walls like a moron, i've adjusted now but i know it's just not as precise as a mouse

i know for a fact DA has alienated older gamers though because I know tons of adults who play plenty of games but they still couldn't adapt to dual analog

geometry wars wouldnt be as good with mouse and keyboard. second analog is still very useful for camera controls. its also great in madden hit stick stuff.

skate for crying out loud. the whole game is based off having 2 analogs.

i'll agree that fps controls are better on pc (most people who have used both would agree), but that doesn't mean that its terrible w/ analogs. using a controller on a couch, in front of a big tv is just a more appealing experience for a lot of people.

analogs aren't going anywhere.

So you want to know what genre the dual analog are better for compared to a mouse and key? What about third person action games such as Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden, I would love to see you play those games with a mouse and key.:) dark-warmachine

So you want to know what genre the dual analog are better for compared to a mouse and key? What about third person action games such as Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden, I would love to see you play those games with a mouse and key.:) dark-warmachine

[QUOTE="dark-warmachine"]So you want to know what genre the dual analog are better for compared to a mouse and key? What about third person action games such as Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden, I would love to see you play those games with a mouse and key.:) hiphops_savior

It is relevant because TC made it seem as if dual analog has no purpose.

no... the wii's controls are GARBAGE. they're not innovative, they're simply annoying. until they make a wiimote type thing that can mimic your movements 1:1 in real time, motion tracking is just dumb. i mean come on, a zelda game with 1:1 sword control would be awesome, or a lightsaber fighting game... but all the gimmicky wii manages to accomplish is generic gimmick controls for the wiimote (sans warioware)mistervengeance

Way to miss the entire topic. Were not even talking about motion controls, were talking about pointers.

So you want to know what genre the dual analog are better for compared to a mouse and key? What about third person action games such as Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden, I would love to see you play those games with a mouse and key.:) dark-warmachine

I'm not saying the need M?KB, I'm saying they don't need a second stick. They still need 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons, and Dpad, and a single stick, but a pointer device would be a lot better than a second stick.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

goblaa

[QUOTE="Innocentguy757"]For any games, who wants to have to warry about sitting at a desk when you can kick back on your couch and play games. Plus it would take up more room and be harder to play multipler on one screen. And the controller feels much more naturals in the hands than the keyboard and mouse.Blackbond

Still don't know how people sit back and relax while playing games. If I'm playing Madden, Halo, Gears whatever I am on the edge of my seat leaning forward I'm not relaxing.

Although I like controllers I wouldn't say they feel more natural in the hands seeing as how much I use a computer each day.

I guess it's more of an acquired art.I can game regardless of the position of my body.

Dual analog might not be accurate. But it good at different scenarios.

Stimulating the steering wheel and gas/break when playing driving games.

Stimulating the joystick when playing jet/flight games. (the analog stick is like a mini joystick anyways)

Stimulating the KB/M when playing FPS games. (again it's not as accurate as KB/M)

Despite the innovative Wiimote + Nunchuck, some Wii games still requires the classic controller to play the game at its best.

[QUOTE="dark-warmachine"]So you want to know what genre the dual analog are better for compared to a mouse and key? What about third person action games such as Devil May Cry 3 and Ninja Gaiden, I would love to see you play those games with a mouse and key.:) goblaa

I'm not saying the need M?KB, I'm saying they don't need a second stick. They still need 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons, and Dpad, and a single stick, but a pointer device would be a lot better than a second stick.

So you want to replace the 2nd stick for a separate mouse which would be normally use to rotate the camera view for 3rd person action?

Dual analog might not be accurate. But it good at different scenarios.

Stimulating the steering wheel and gas/break when playing driving games.

Stimulating the joystick when playing jet/flight games. (the analog stick is like a mini joystick anyways)

Stimulating the KB/M when playing FPS games. (again it's not as accurate as KB/M)

Despite the innovative Wiimote + Nunchuck, some Wii games still requires the classic controller to play the game at its best.

EZs

u're arguing that gaming on keyboard and mouse comes "naturally" ? oh rofflesJPOBS

So you want to replace the 2nd stick for a separate mouse which would be normally use to rotate the camera view for 3rd person action?

dark-warmachine

I just had a great idea that would help console controllers be more like a mouse and keyboard. Instead of analog sticks, circular touch pad (like the ones on laptops?) If you replaced anolog sticks with touch pads on a console controler the movement, in my opinion, would feel much more natural. Still I'm fine with dual analog sticks for now, I don't have any issues switching from mouse to a controller. :)

*EDIT*

The touch pads would also be able to pressed down like a d-pad button (like you can on an iPod).

[QUOTE="EZs"]

Dual analog might not be accurate. But it good at different scenarios.

Stimulating the steering wheel and gas/break when playing driving games.

Stimulating the joystick when playing jet/flight games. (the analog stick is like a mini joystick anyways)

Stimulating the KB/M when playing FPS games. (again it's not as accurate as KB/M)

Despite the innovative Wiimote + Nunchuck, some Wii games still requires the classic controller to play the game at its best.

Mysterious_Kid

KB sends digital signal, it meeans if press "A" the game will recognize as "A".

Analog stick sends analogue signal, so you can measure how much gas or brake you want to put in while racing.

... Who uses the second analog stick for acceleration and braking? Anyways, the pressure sensitive buttons do a better job, as you can do two inputs at once.Mysterious_Kid

Good question, in real life you don't accelerate and brake at the same time.

[QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]... Who uses the second analog stick for acceleration and braking? Anyways, the pressure sensitive buttons do a better job, as you can do two inputs at once.EZs

Good question, in real life you don't accelerate and brake at the same time.

But this isn't real life...?

Anyway, my fingers are always on the accelerate button when I play.

The way that m/kb fans come accross, its like they want every other control system wiped off the face of the earth, and kb/m for everything.

It wouldn't work on portable consoles. M/kb has been available on consoles since the ps1, and it never took off.

Consoles dont need kb/m so i want all pc players to shut up about it!

:| good arguementJPOBS

Thanks...?

The way that m/kb fans come accross, its like they want every other control system wiped off the face of the earth, and kb/m for everything.

It wouldn't work on portable consoles. M/kb has been available on consoles since the ps1, and it never took off.

Consoles dont need kb/m so i want all pc players to shut up about it!

brokenps2

You don't understand the thread.

The thread is about how the second analog stick is redundant, obsolete and should be removed from future controllers.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]:| good arguementMysterious_Kid

Thanks...?

The way that m/kb fans come accross, its like they want every other control system wiped off the face of the earth, and kb/m for everything.

It wouldn't work on portable consoles. M/kb has been available on consoles since the ps1, and it never took off.

Consoles dont need kb/m so i want all pc players to shut up about it!

brokenps2

You don't understand the thread.

The thread is about how the second analog stick is redundant, obsolete and should be removed from future controllers.

[QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Thanks...?

[QUOTE="brokenps2"]

The way that m/kb fans come accross, its like they want every other control system wiped off the face of the earth, and kb/m for everything.

It wouldn't work on portable consoles. M/kb has been available on consoles since the ps1, and it never took off.

Consoles dont need kb/m so i want all pc players to shut up about it!

brokenps2

You don't understand the thread.

The thread is about how the second analog stick is redundant, obsolete and should be removed from future controllers.

The psp's analog nub sucks anyway, having two things that suck doesn't help more than one.

[QUOTE="brokenps2"][QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]

You don't understand the thread.

The thread is about how the second analog stick is redundant, obsolete and should be removed from future controllers.

Mysterious_Kid

The psp's analog nub sucks anyway, having two things that suck doesn't help more than one.

Face it boys and girls after the sucsess the wii has had kiss your analog controllers goodbye. I like the analog too but you can better your last dollar sony and microsoft have thier own motion cotrollers lined up for the next systems.jdc6305

Ive im sitting on my couch in front of my 40" HDTV do you really think I'm going to have much use for a kb/m??CwlHeddwyn

[QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]

[QUOTE="JPOBS"]

Thanks...?

[QUOTE="brokenps2"]

The way that m/kb fans come accross, its like they want every other control system wiped off the face of the earth, and kb/m for everything.

It wouldn't work on portable consoles. M/kb has been available on consoles since the ps1, and it never took off.

Consoles dont need kb/m so i want all pc players to shut up about it!

brokenps2

You don't understand the thread.

The thread is about how the second analog stick is redundant, obsolete and should be removed from future controllers.

A touch screen would be much better. Besides, that analog nub on the PSP is nealry unplayable.

not really, i can switch between M/K and 360 controller without any problems[QUOTE="jdc6305"]Face it boys and girls after the sucsess the wii has had kiss your analog controllers goodbye. I like the analog too but you can better your last dollar sony and microsoft have thier own motion cotrollers lined up for the next systems.Dante2710

I'm suprised so many people claim they will quit gaming if MS and Sony use IR next gen.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. jasonheyman

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Care to explain on the "inferior"??

[QUOTE="Dante2710"]not really, i can switch between M/K and 360 controller without any problems[QUOTE="jdc6305"]Face it boys and girls after the sucsess the wii has had kiss your analog controllers goodbye. I like the analog too but you can better your last dollar sony and microsoft have thier own motion cotrollers lined up for the next systems.goblaa

I'm suprised so many people claim they will quit gaming if MS and Sony use IR next gen.

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="Dante2710"] if microsoft descides to go the same way nintendo did, i will kiss console gaming good bye for good and stick to pc gaming only brokenps2

I'm suprised so many people claim they will quit gaming if MS and Sony use IR next gen.

Yea let's all hiss at the future and turn extreme conservitive. DOWN WITH ELECTRICITY, UP WITH FEUDALISM! :P

[QUOTE="brokenps2"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

I'm suprised so many people claim they will quit gaming if MS and Sony use IR next gen.

householdman

Yea let's all hiss at the future and turn extreme conservitive. DOWN WITH ELECTRICITY, UP WITH FEUDALISM! :P

[QUOTE="householdman"][QUOTE="brokenps2"] Motion sensors and touch controls are most of our nightmares. brokenps2

Yea let's all hiss at the future and turn extreme conservitive. DOWN WITH ELECTRICITY, UP WITH FEUDALISM! :P