Is there any purpose for dual analog anymore?

[QUOTE="mlisen"]I respect your arguments Goblaa, but I think if you took away one analog stick it would leave the controller very unbalanced, I think at the moment it's quite optimised for comfort and ease of use. Maybe if they replaced the right one with something like a tablet, like the touch sensor on laptops instead of the mouse, in fact, if this hasn't been used, I absolutely coin this idea.
And Blackbond, you don't really back up your statements, it's just 'Keyboard/Mouse wins, controllers are inferior', you're barely letting anyone rebutt against your remarks, each of yours have just been that Keyboards and Mouses are better because you say so, yet you say it's factual, cite your sources if it's such a proven fact.Captain__Tripps

Better, can not really be proven. All that can be proven, is that kb/m is faster, more precise, and 99/100 people would probably tell you it is easier to control a PC fps vs a console one. Some people would call a Honda Civic better than a Ferrari. Some prefer an automatic tranny vs a manual...

I doubt that. ALOT. More people play FPS games on console, so i'd assume they prefer the control scheme. Only the hgardcore play with KB/M, and they're in the minority

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="jakarai"]I am fine with dual analog set up. cuddlesofwar

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Yes: To play games.

Duel>mouse>wii remote for me any day.

Duel>mouse>wii remote for me any day.

CreepyBacon

Sony, Nintendo, and MS aren't dumb. They've done millions of dollars of research to find out exactly what type of controller gamers want and best fit gamers. Trust me, if the majority of console gamers wanted a mouse, they'd have a mouse. As it stands now, console gamers are quite comfortable with the controllers. This explains why both controllers are basically the same, and to be honest, are quite comfortable.romans828_2002

Well I have been playing some BF Bad Company - an early Xmas present from a mate.

Aside from it being a good game and fun - the dual analogue controls in general feel very clunky.... and very unnatural.

Now I have not played a 360 shooter in a few weeks, and it was a bit jarring, going from playing plenty of PC shooters lately, too using a dual analogue - its far less fluid, and it feels incredibly awkward to use. Now of course its more assessable - thats what gives it, its purpose, and its standard for consoles....

However its a type of control scheme that needs plenty of aim assist (ala the entire Halo series), as without it, its a real chore to use fluidly. This is shooter only mind you. Arcade racers, action adventure and platformers work very well....

However its a type of control scheme that needs plenty of aim assist (ala the entire Halo series), as without it, its a real chore to use fluidly.skrat_01

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="goblaa"]in-fe-ri-or: Adj: 1. lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often fol. by to): a rank inferior to colonel. 2. lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base: descending into the inferior regions of the earth. 3. of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product. 4. less important, valuable, or worthy: B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds. 5. acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre: an inferior observer of human nature.

goblaa

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

[QUOTE="killerfist"] if you think Halo is bad, you should try the COD games some time:P The aim-assist in COD is ridiculous. It even works at times when the enemy is behind 3+ walls lol.Mysterious_Kid

Action, Action Adventure and Platformers.

If I'm using dual analog and the person on the other end of my connection is using dual analog then what difference is it going to make?

Terrible argument.
Burnsmiesta

Action, Action Adventure and Platformers.

nitekids2004

Did you read the OP?

[QUOTE="Burnsmiesta"]If I'm using dual analog and the person on the other end of my connection is using dual analog then what difference is it going to make?

Terrible argument.
Mysterious_Kid

Action, Action Adventure and Platformers.

nitekids2004

Did you read the OP?

[QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"]

[QUOTE="mlisen"]I respect your arguments Goblaa, but I think if you took away one analog stick it would leave the controller very unbalanced, I think at the moment it's quite optimised for comfort and ease of use. Maybe if they replaced the right one with something like a tablet, like the touch sensor on laptops instead of the mouse, in fact, if this hasn't been used, I absolutely coin this idea.
And Blackbond, you don't really back up your statements, it's just 'Keyboard/Mouse wins, controllers are inferior', you're barely letting anyone rebutt against your remarks, each of yours have just been that Keyboards and Mouses are better because you say so, yet you say it's factual, cite your sources if it's such a proven fact.cuddlesofwar

Better, can not really be proven. All that can be proven, is that kb/m is faster, more precise, and 99/100 people would probably tell you it is easier to control a PC fps vs a console one. Some people would call a Honda Civic better than a Ferrari. Some prefer an automatic tranny vs a manual...

I doubt that. ALOT. More people play FPS games on console, so i'd assume they prefer the control scheme. Only the hgardcore play with KB/M, and they're in the minority

You doubt what? The kb/mouse is easier? Just because more ppl play console, doesn't mean its easier, its just more popular, and even that is not really clear. And how would they even know since so many people who play consoles have never used a m/kb to play an fps?

Oh just the camera. Nothing imporant. Bread_or_Decide

The mouse controls the camera.

@nitekids2004

The OP said that

"What genres ARE dual analog good for? ...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control."

Anyway, Action Adventure and Action and extremely general and vague genres.

For a First Person Action/Action Adventure, a pointer device would serve its purpose better than the second analog stick.

For Platformers, from personal experience, does not need a second analog stick. While playing Super Mario Galaxy, rarely did I move the camera, and when I did it was only to kinda go into a First Person view at the scene and background. The camera was fine, and there was only one occurence where it was a bit wonk, but that is saw due to the spherical stuff planets I was on. However, one might argue Super Mario Galaxy is an extremely untradtionally and unique 3D platformer, and cannot be compared to regular ones. As such, I have another example.

In Super Mario 64 DS, I had only adjusted the camera holding a single button, the L button to be specific, to move the camera to directly behind me. Even then, I did so to hear the funny camera moving sound.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]However its a type of control scheme that needs plenty of aim assist (ala the entire Halo series), as without it, its a real chore to use fluidly.killerfist

A friend told me recently (who has one local UT04 comps); he entered a COD2 competition (at an expo GAME1 here), without even playing the game before - and won. He said simply because there was so much auto aim correction, it was just a matter of finding a good position, and pointing the crosshairs in the general direction - pausing - firing (depending the distance with or without irons), and it was almost always hit. I was pretty bewildered.

Though honestly even though it does... 'cheapen' the experience, its almost a necessity. Playing without causes the aiming to simply swing and overshoot targets, and tracking while strafing, or tracking moving targets while moving is a massive chore.

[QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"][QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"]

Better, can not really be proven. All that can be proven, is that kb/m is faster, more precise, and 99/100 people would probably tell you it is easier to control a PC fps vs a console one. Some people would call a Honda Civic better than a Ferrari. Some prefer an automatic tranny vs a manual...

Captain__Tripps

I doubt that. ALOT. More people play FPS games on console, so i'd assume they prefer the control scheme. Only the hgardcore play with KB/M, and they're in the minority

You doubt what? The kb/mouse is easier? Just because more ppl play console, doesn't mean its easier, its just more popular, and even that is not really clear. And how would they even know since so many people who play consoles have never used a m/kb to play an fps?

You contradicted yourself. You said most people think KB/M is better, yet it's more popular on console, and most of them (You say) never used it. Some thing being easy or not, is strict matter of opinion. You should have just said it's more accurate, which it is.

[QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"][QUOTE="cuddlesofwar"]

I doubt that. ALOT. More people play FPS games on console, so i'd assume they prefer the control scheme. Only the hgardcore play with KB/M, and they're in the minority

cuddlesofwar

You doubt what? The kb/mouse is easier? Just because more ppl play console, doesn't mean its easier, its just more popular, and even that is not really clear. And how would they even know since so many people who play consoles have never used a m/kb to play an fps?

You contradicted yourself. You said most people think KB/M is better, yet it's more popular on console, and most of them (You say) never used it. Some thing being easy or not, is strict matter of opinion. You should have just said it's more accurate, which it is.

Actually, what I said is most people who who would try a PC FPS, and a console FPS, would find the PC version easier to control, not better. Some people obviously consider more obtuse controls "better" for whatever reason, or think a controller is more "immersive", which makes no sence to me, but if you feel that way more power to you.

@nitekids2004

The OP said that

"What genres ARE dual analog good for? ...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control."

Anyway, Action Adventure and Action and extremely general and vague genres.

For a First Person Action/Action Adventure, a pointer device would serve its purpose better than the second analog stick.

For Platformers, from personal experience, does not need a second analog stick. While playing Super Mario Galaxy, rarely did I move the camera, and when I did it was only to kinda go into a First Person view at the scene and background. The camera was fine, and there was only one occurence where it was a bit wonk, but that is saw due to the spherical stuff planets I was on. However, one might argue Super Mario Galaxy is an extremely untradtionally and unique 3D platformer, and cannot be compared to regular ones. As such, I have another example.

In Super Mario 64 DS, I had only adjusted the camera holding a single button, the L button to be specific, to move the camera to directly behind me. Even then, I did so to hear the funny camera moving sound.

Mysterious_Kid

[QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]

@nitekids2004

The OP said that

"What genres ARE dual analog good for? ...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control."

Anyway, Action Adventure and Action and extremely general and vague genres.

For a First Person Action/Action Adventure, a pointer device would serve its purpose better than the second analog stick.

For Platformers, from personal experience, does not need a second analog stick. While playing Super Mario Galaxy, rarely did I move the camera, and when I did it was only to kinda go into a First Person view at the scene and background. The camera was fine, and there was only one occurence where it was a bit wonk, but that is saw due to the spherical stuff planets I was on. However, one might argue Super Mario Galaxy is an extremely untradtionally and unique 3D platformer, and cannot be compared to regular ones. As such, I have another example.

In Super Mario 64 DS, I had only adjusted the camera holding a single button, the L button to be specific, to move the camera to directly behind me. Even then, I did so to hear the funny camera moving sound.

nitekids2004

God of War has fixed camera angles....

Though honestly even though it does... 'cheapen' the experience, its almost a necessity. Playing without causes the aiming to simply swing and overshoot targets, and tracking while strafing, or tracking moving targets while moving is a massive chore. skrat_01

[QUOTE="nitekids2004"][QUOTE="Mysterious_Kid"]

@nitekids2004

The OP said that

"What genres ARE dual analog good for? ...the only thing I can think of are third person adventure games for camera control. But all the best well made adventure games these days have such great camera that you don't even really need camera control."

Anyway, Action Adventure and Action and extremely general and vague genres.

For a First Person Action/Action Adventure, a pointer device would serve its purpose better than the second analog stick.

For Platformers, from personal experience, does not need a second analog stick. While playing Super Mario Galaxy, rarely did I move the camera, and when I did it was only to kinda go into a First Person view at the scene and background. The camera was fine, and there was only one occurence where it was a bit wonk, but that is saw due to the spherical stuff planets I was on. However, one might argue Super Mario Galaxy is an extremely untradtionally and unique 3D platformer, and cannot be compared to regular ones. As such, I have another example.

In Super Mario 64 DS, I had only adjusted the camera holding a single button, the L button to be specific, to move the camera to directly behind me. Even then, I did so to hear the funny camera moving sound.

Nagidar

God of War has fixed camera angles....

that's not the point. GoW uses both analogs for moving - even the analog buttons: r3 and l3. Not only that, the games uses almost all the buttons so having a dual analog is definitely a big plus.

someone hasn't played God of War.nitekids2004

Who?

I certainly did, though my memory of it is very vague. IIRC, I didn't use camera controls for the first hydra boss, the 3 headed? or 3 hydra boss thing, the one you need to stab the head and make it stuck on the ground? The camera was perfectly fine then.

For the rest of the non-boss parts, it was basically triple A button mashing, not much memory.

However, I have a much more vivid memory of Devil May Cry 3, where I yet again rarely used camera controls, and combat was using auto lock on.

[QUOTE="nitekids2004"]

someone hasn't played God of War.Mysterious_Kid

Who?

I certainly did, though my memory of it is very vague. IIRC, I didn't use camera controls for the first hydra boss, the 3 headed? or 3 hydra boss thing, the one you need to stab the head and make it stuck on the ground? The camera was perfectly fine then.

For the rest of the non-boss parts, it was basically triple A button mashing, not much memory.

However, I have a much more vivid memory of Devil May Cry 3, where I yet again rarely used camera controls, and combat was using auto lock on.

ok. i guess i didn't explain clearly. Analog is useful for a game like GoW that uses almost every button and d-pad. By having an analog/s, you can plot the movement of a character through it instead of using the d-pad (which would take up alot of space). Other games like sports games where you can quick select strategies by moving the analog stick saves the player time (not to mention Boxing games w/c uses analogs primarily).

ok. i guess i didn't explain clearly. Analog is useful for a game like GoW that uses almost every button and d-pad. By having an analog/s, you can plot the movement of a character through it instead of using the d-pad (which would take up alot of space). Other games like sports games where you can quick select strategies by moving the analog stick saves the player time (not to mention Boxing games w/c uses analogs primarily).

nitekids2004

I can't comment on how dual analog would greatly improve gaming experience for God of War, as when I was playing, I basically raped the controller, with crazy button mashing.

However, the point you mentioned quick select is more of a UI optimisation issue. Imagine using a Xbox360 controller analogs as an extremely slow mouse for a PC game menu. It would suck. Good, not lazy developers would optimise and tweak the game's UI for their specific platform so that in the end, it is a very smooth and quick experience, not neccesarily because there was the presence of a second analog stick.

In other words, if there was only one analog stick, developers would still find a way to make the User Interface as good.

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="goblaa"]in-fe-ri-or: Adj: 1. lower in station, rank, degree, or grade (often fol. by to): a rank inferior to colonel. 2. lower in place or position; closer to the bottom or base: descending into the inferior regions of the earth. 3. of comparatively low grade; poor in quality; substandard: an inferior product. 4. less important, valuable, or worthy: B+ bonds are inferior to AAA bonds. 5. acting or performing in a way that is comparatively poor or mediocre: an inferior observer of human nature.

goblaa

I know what the word means I meant explain why you feel that way. When they first came out yes it took getting used to. But now that it's been there for so long I don't see myself being able to play without a second one..

The fact that you have to grow acustom to it makes it inferior. A mouse and the wiimote's pointer come 100% natural. And to boot, they are faster and more precise.

Grab someone with no gaming experience and have them play CoD on the 360, PC, and Wii. They will pick up the PC and Wii instantly. That makes dual analog inferior.

LOLWHUT... Just because I'm used to it means it sucks? Wow...

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Though honestly even though it does... 'cheapen' the experience, its almost a necessity. Playing without causes the aiming to simply swing and overshoot targets, and tracking while strafing, or tracking moving targets while moving is a massive chore. killerfist

I'm pretty sure he didn't ask for a definition, he asked you to explain what was inferior. Thought you were so clever didn't you. Read the post carefully next time.Innocentguy757

[QUOTE="jasonheyman"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

Only because you've grown acustom to it. It's still inferior.

Blackbond

Care to explain on the "inferior"??

Well it is a factually inferior tool in FPS.

• Speed
• Accuracy
• Precision

And then you realized that one could use a controller or a trackball on the PC as my friend uses a trackball to play CS. The point is not mute. If you're not debating the facts then I don't know what you're debating. As I've said I'm not interested in hearing opinions.Blackbond

I wouldn't be able to play anything other than FPS and RTS on a computer. Can you imagine trying to platform or hack n slash with a mouse/keyboard?:(-Sniper99-

I prefer dual analog over the mouse and keyboard set upCouth_

Honestly i'd pick convenince and confort OVER precision any day of the week

some people just don't get it, video games are for fun SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LastRedMage

If its so uncomfortable then I feel bad when you use the internet, type a paper, or post online. Computers are very comfortable and you never complaining about them while posting on GS or any other time outside of playing a game is evident of that. I don't understand how or why people say using a PC is uncomfortable you spend time on your computer every day and you're fine lol. So all of a sudden when you start gaming on it your body automatically cramps up or something?

Send out the Maverick Hunters.

Mouse/keyboard takes getting used to as well. I've never met anybody who could just 'pick up and play' an FPS on a PC. It ALWAYS takes some adjusting/tweaking. I don't really like using the keyboard for moving/strafing. Plus all the shortcuts are unintuitive and you have to learn them all. I agree that mouse/keyboard is superior but saying that anyone can use it is simply not true.

manicfoot

Not in my experience. Give a girl a controller to play Halo and she doesn't know what to do as she can't manipulate both analogs. Sit her down infront of a PC and give her COD to play on the PITT network and tell her just click on guys to shoot them and she's a ok. Crappy player but anyone can grasp the concept of moving a mouse which you use in everyday life and clicking on something on your screen.

I respect your arguments Goblaa, but I think if you took away one analog stick it would leave the controller very unbalanced, I think at the moment it's quite optimised for comfort and ease of use. Maybe if they replaced the right one with something like a tablet, like the touch sensor on laptops instead of the mouse, in fact, if this hasn't been used, I absolutely coin this idea.
And Blackbond, you don't really back up your statements, it's just 'Keyboard/Mouse wins, controllers are inferior', you're barely letting anyone rebutt against your remarks, each of yours have just been that Keyboards and Mouses are better because you say so, yet you say it's factual, cite your sources if it's such a proven fact.mlisen

So let me guess this straight. I'm not backing up my statements and I'm not letting anyone rebuttle against your remarks? That's because you can't rebuttle against facts. The Mouse and Keyboard is factually superior in terms of speed, accuracy, and precision. I don't care for opinions you cannot dispute those facts. Your preference is your preference but it doesn't change the fact that a mouse has superior accuracy, speed, and precision over an analog stick. If you need that cited for then really can you not comprehend the degrees of movement in an analogy stick compared to the pixel like precision that is on a mouse that use on your desktop every day? I mean really. You want me to tell you that the grass is green on my lawn as well? I mean I will if you want me too. I'm pressed for time but that's okay.

Mouse/keyboard takes getting used to as well. I've never met anybody who could just 'pick up and play' an FPS on a PC. It ALWAYS takes some adjusting/tweaking. I don't really like using the keyboard for moving/strafing. Plus all the shortcuts are unintuitive and you have to learn them all. I agree that mouse/keyboard is superior but saying that anyone can use it is simply not true.

Not in my experience. Give a girl a controller to play Halo and she doesn't know what to do as she can't manipulate both analogs. Sit her down infront of a PC and give her COD to play on the PITT network and tell her just click on guys to shoot them and she's a ok. Crappy player but anyone can grasp the concept of moving a mouse which you use in everyday life and clicking on something on your screen.

[QUOTE="Blackbond"]And then you realized that one could use a controller or a trackball on the PC as my friend uses a trackball to play CS. The point is not mute. If you're not debating the facts then I don't know what you're debating. As I've said I'm not interested in hearing opinions.Couth_